Obama to General Wesley Clark: Your Services Not Needed (Steve Clemons, HuffPo)

[highplainsdem]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-clemons/obama-to-general-wesley-c_b_119345.html

Steve Clemons

Posted August 16, 2008 | 02:11 PM (EST)

General Wesley Clark is not attending the Democratic National Convention. I was told by General Clark's personal office in Little Rock as well as by the director of WesPAC that he would not be attending.

Clark was informed by Barack Obama's people that there was "no reason to come."

General Clark has been given no role of any kind at the convention.

Rubbing salt in the wound even more, the "theme" of Wednesday's Democratic convention agenda is "Securing America."

Wesley Clark's PAC also happens to be called SECURING AMERICA.

This is a mistake in my view. There are a lot of perspectives and competing agendas about how to direct America's next national security posture -- and General Wesley Clark should be one of the top tier names and personalities at the table.

-snip-

[PatSeg]

1. Okay, that really sucks

If it is true.

[gateley]

2. I am so angered and disappointed to hear this. Do you think it's accurate?

I was hoping that Obama would lay down the politics and invite Clark -- a man he apparently regarded highly enough to have sitting next to him in the Obama's Foreign Policiy Advisory Board photo op -- back into the fold.

For all we say about Obama being kick ass, he certainly seemed to fold when it came to Clark after his statement was spun.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. Let's wait and see if it's true before getting our panties in a bunch.

The fact that some blogger said it doesn't mean it's true.

[gateley]

23. True - I really hope this isn't correct. I REALLY do. nt

[tblue37]

149. I hope this is a false leak intended to misdirect the media.

It would be great if Clark turns out to be the VP candidate and this was intended to confuse the media about that.

[PatSeg]

26. And could be just one person

spoke out of turn and wasn't representing the campaign.

[Kdillard]

3. Disappointing if true.

[roguevalley]

96. if true, more than disappointing. cowardly and rotten.

[Clark2008]

4. Oh, that's right. Steal his ideas, send him out to take your hits

and then ignore him completely.

If this is true, I'll be leaving this board because I will NOT vote for Obama. I'll vote Green or something.

Obama's "people" need to get their noses out of the Beltway and listen to the grassroots.

[writes3000]

10. Good grief, you're easy to fool. nt

[Clark2008]

18. I guess you just missed the part where I said, "if this is true," then?

[writes3000]

34. I apologize. It pisses me off that it's this easy to get people to declare "I won't vote for Obama"

Based on what some blogger says.

As much of a secret as the VP choice has been, do you really think Obama or Clark would tell his staff about this?

And as respected as Clark is, do you really think Obama's people would tell him "he's not needed".

Clark may only be a smokescreen for the real VP choice now, but I predict he will have a presence at the convention.

Bank on it.

[SOS]

174. Link has been updated....

"His staff have told me that while his schedule remains tight, he would rearrange his schedule to help play any constructive role on any days of the convention if asked."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-clemons/obama-to-general-wesley-c_b_119342.html?page=6

Let's hope Clark is asked to be VP!

[GarbagemanLB]

74. Wow. "Screw the issues! He slighted my favorite candidate!!!!" How pathetic.

[Clark2008]

155. Yep. So what?

And that would be more than a "slight." That shows complete lack of judgment.

P.S. The pathetic one here, if this is, indeed, true, isn't me. It's Obama.

[DevonRex]

126. No way in hell this is completely accurate. Honestly, after all the

effort that Obama and Hillary have made to bring the party together, does it make ANY sense to you for this to have gone down the way it's portrayed here?

Of course not.

Now, I'm not saying Clark is the VP pick. I'd like him, personally. But I am saying that he's a valued member of our party. He's a valued member of the circle of Clinton friends.

This smells like just another hit job on our party, trying to divide us. I guess they had to find someone else to talk about since Barack and Hillary are doing such a fantastic job at uniting the party.

[BlooInBloo]

144. WATB

[vaberella]

5. I see this as total BS. Obama would never turn away his supporters.

I'd need more evidence. I think this is a crock. It doesn't even make sense that Obama would even turn away any of his supporters on any level.

[CakeGrrl]

9. +1 - I'd believe this is a smokescreen to throw us off the VP trail

before I'd ever believe the Obama campaign would ever be so flatly dismissive to Clark.

This doesn't sound quite right...

[vaberella]

21. Exactly. That thought did cross my mind that there was something underlying.

I don't think this is true or even what's going on. I think though it could be seen as a smear if it's not a cover.

[Coexist]

145. I agree.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

16. Exactly. It makes it sound like they are intentionally excluding him,

and I can't imagine the campaign being so foolish as to refuse to invite someone who is so popular with many Democrats (including -- perhaps especially including -- the Hillary supporters, whom the campaign has had to work very hard to placate) and who has been out there campaigning for Obama.

This is unattributed gossip from some blogger. Let's wait and see if it's true; I suspect it isn't.

[Diamonique]

7. I am not loving this.

I hope it's not true.

[writes3000]

8. How can anyone buy this load of crap? Honestly...

The Obama campaign has been incredibly selective about who they put out there representing them. Right?

WHO is scheduled to do press over the next week?

Wesley Clark.

C'MON!

This makes me think it's more likely he's VP.

[Clark2008]

15. Where did you read he's scheduled to do press?

I don't want to believe this and I have no idea who Steve Clemmons is or how he would know.

I'd rather research myself.

Can you provide some further info on your statement, please? It would be much appreciated.

[writes3000]

46. He's going to be on Fox tomorrow. He was just on CNN & Fox this past week. Two radio interviews...

this past week. He's been out there more than almost anyone else.

If the Obama campaign didn't want him out there, they would have asked him to make himself scarce.

[americanstranger]

109. Steve Clemons runs The Washington Note. Good blog.

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com

He's a member of some DC think tank, and he's always been pretty good with the DC insider stuff.

Having said that, the headline and article just don't smell right. I doubt that O's people would freeze Clark out like that.

- as

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

132. He's going to be in Milan that week

I heard him being interviewed on the radio about a week to 10 days ago. I'm pretty sure it was on Rachel Maddow's show since I was driving home from work. He said he was not going to Denver due to this prior committment.

[JohnnyCougar]

11. I don't know what to make of this.

The Obama campaign hasn't really been behind Clark all that much for a while now. Perhaps there was some sort of major disagreement that we don't know about.

I do kind of like Wes Clark, but the independents and swing voters I know really don't like him all too much. I'd much rather have Biden speaking for Barack on national security, and not Clark.

[Clark2008]

32. Every independent and swing voter I know loves him...

and I'm in the South.

[girl gone mad]

125. He's very popular in the places..

Democrats are hoping to make inroads. What a shame that the Obama campaign would be so short-sighted.

[vaberella]

12. Can anyone send this to the Obama camp so they could respond to this?!

It's like a light smear. Plus, I get the impression that this is in the same league as the nonsense about what Dean had supposedly said about HRC which was debunked and found to be an untrue rumor given credibility.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[vaberella]

24. I really felt this was borderline smear. I hate when reporters/bloggers start spreading lies.

And this one really undermines our presumptive nominee.

[Skip Intro]

38. How about when posters spread innuendo and smears against another poster?

the one you replied to, for example?

[vaberella]

47. My attention was focused on "create more anti-Obama chaos." in relation to the blogger.

I don't know the poster know the issues the poster I was responding too has with the OP. My mind was already on the path on possible lies from the blogger.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

29. elkston, a virulent Nancy Drew wannabe, posted this reply

[Skip Intro]

44. LOL

:thmbsup:

[QC]

66. ROFLMAO!

We do have a lot of Nancy Drews around these parts lately, don't we?

[highplainsdem]

43. LOL! What paranoia! No, I don't know Clemons. This turned up when I was checking Google News, so

I posted it, as I post a lot of news stories and polls.

I posted a CBS News story about Obama vacationing in Hawaii last night and how important family and friends are to him. Are you going to fantasize that I'm in collusion with CBS to try to make Obama look too interested in vacation, family and friends, in my stealth effort to "create more anti-Obama chaos"?

Really, some of the people here appear to be living in an alternate universe.

You can always try checking Google News, too. I find it a bit more interesting than just reading exchanges of opinions here, especially the usual predictable opinions. And I post the more interesting news and helpful stories here. Including a lot of stories that people could send friends links to, to give them a more favorable view of Obama.

[Skip Intro]

45. So, wow

in less than two months, you have been able to detect hidden agendas and unmask vast conspiracies orchestrated by clandestine operatives posing as long time DUers? Or is this your first?

[Name removed]

51. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[QC]

61. Do you need to add another layer of tinfoil?

[montanacowboy]

14. What a crock

I was hoping for Clark to be VP - what the hell? who in Obama's campaign would say or do such a freakin stupid thing? We need to find out the truth of this and if it is true, I am sick to my stomach - if true, what are they thinking? if he makes a lame choice for VP, we might be in trouble.

[Spazito]

17. Steve Clemons gets it wrong as often as he gets it right....

There would be no reason for either Clark's personal office or the director of WesPac to actually know whether he is or is not. The WHOLE point about secrecy in choosing the VP is NOT telling people who are not in a "need to know" basis. I don't see where these people would qualify in the "need to know" category.

It may or may not be Clark, it is still a BIG question mark. The only thing we DO know, imo, is that we DON'T have a clue who it will be and that is the way the Obama team wants it.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

97. OMG!!OMG!!!THIS IS HUGH!!!

I'm seen that subject line one too many times this election season to thing that anybody has the "inside story" on who the VP is going to be.

[Spazito]

106. Yep, one day it's Kerry, the next, Clark...or Biden...or....or....or

I have to hand it to the Obama campaign, they have pulled this off, no one has a flipping clue and that's just how they want it.

[Dinger]

119. Kind Of Jason Leopoldish To Me (nt)

[FrenchieCat]

19. I never thought that Wes Clark was in the running as VP.

As for Clark not speaking, that is unfortunate, but I will have to leave it there.....as I have no idea of what goes on behind the scenes.

[ErinBerin84]

20. disappointing if true.

I don't think that Wes is going to be the VP, but I don't always trust the Washington Note for this kind of "insider info", they've been off before.

[FrenchieCat]

27. Steve Clemons is very much an ally of Gen. Clark........

So I don't necessarily doubt what he is saying.

[bunnies]

35. Then why not just ask Wes (rather than his "office")?

Unless the info comes from Clark himself... I'm inclined not to believe it. Keeping their cards to the vest and all....

[gblady]

22. sad, if true....

on many levels...

how credible is this blogger?
the tone of the quote doesn't sound Obama-esque.

[bunnies]

25. The fact that these people have big mouths...

is the number one reason why they would be kept out of the loop. Therefore, I put ZERO stock in what these people have to say.

[dkf]

28. I dunno. If he is picked for VP, its a great way to throw everyone off.

[CakeGrrl]

37. That's what a few of us are saying. Does anyone *really* believe Team Obama

would essentially tell such a high-profile Democratic supporter (and Clinton ally) 'thanks, but don't bother showing up at the convention' after borrowing his PAC's slogan?

I don't think so.

It'll make this blogger look foolish (along with any MSM who would be happy to pick this up) when Clark is announced as the VP.

[dkf]

39. I wouldn't count on it happening, but I also wouldn't say all kinds of

stuff about Obama if I were a Clarkie.

Obama is good at political jiu jitsu.

[Captain Hilts]

41. That makes no sense to me, either. nt

[Azathoth]

30. So yesterday they were bending over backward to accomodate everyone

now today they're telling people to go screw themselves? Sure. :eyes:

[DevonRex]

127. Exactly. No way this is true. And if the divisive characterization is

untrue, then the whole thing has to be taken with a grain of salt. Or a whole shaker of it.

[Captain Hilts]

31. Because Clark is a TRUE PROGRESSIVE and Obama and Clinton are not. nt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

36. You are assuming the unattributed post of a single blogger to be true.

I am not. Let's wait and see what develops. And, btw, while I do believe Clark to be a true progressive, don't forget he was an ardent Clinton supporter until Obama sewed up the nomination.

[Captain Hilts]

40. I agree with everything you've said.

And I don't see him as a speaker for that reason.

He'd still be a good choice for veep because he'd chew the ass off the R veep candidate in a debate.

[grantcart]

89. right and his long struggle in the Democratic Party are evidence of that

my god the man admitted he voted for Republicans for President.

I like Wes but the hero worship that surrounds him is just silly.

[windbreeze]

146. ya know what...

I have been a registered Democrat ALL my voting life...and I also voted for a couple Republicans along the way...

About that hero worship being silly...hero worship is silly, when it comes to any ONE human worshipping another...and I have sure seen a lot of it lately...and most of it had nothing to do with Wes Clark...

I tell you what...he's worked to help a whole lot of Democrats get elected...in fact, he's the one who said..."the American people will begin to trust the Democrats to defend America, when they believe that the Democrats will defend another Democrat"...

I will continue to watch this unfold...and then I will act accordingly...wb

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

169. Which Republicans did you vote for for President?

[windbreeze]

177. mmmm...

I don't know if I care to disclose that, because no matter what, it's in the past, and can't be changed...just making a point that perhaps voting Rep once in your lifetime shouldn't automatically make you a bad Democrat...

I have voted more times than I can count...so does voting R once and Ind. once, null and void all the votes for Democrats that I've cast?...wb

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[JustAnotherGen]

42. Securing America

Shows his schedule as him being on Fox tomorrow afternoon - and then nothing until September 9th. We'll have to wait and see.

I'm in the camp of: No way Obama would tell him to go away and stay away.

[gateley]

57. He (Clark) told Rachel he was going to be in Italy during that week

(and actually had a dinner in Milan scheduled for "VP" night) so at that point, didn't look like he'd be attending.

My thought was, he could easily cancel a dinner and there are plenty of flights from Italy to the U.S.....

But as of last week, Clark had no definite plans to participate.

[DevonRex]

129. Yep. He said, "Right now, as of today, I'm scheduled to be at a

dinner in Milan."

And there was a huge pause between her question and his answer.

Heard it myself.

[Peacetrain]

48. What a load!

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense at all.. Obama has turned him and his campaign inside out for other canidates that had been in the field, why on earth would he or his campaign say something so stupid. "He has no reason to come"?

Think about that for a minute..

[Mass]

49. As far as I know, Steve Clemons likes Wes Clark, so I would assume his info is correct.

It would correspond with other infos that were saying Wes Clark would be abroad during the Convention.

I know it is probably a disappointment for many, but obviously, there are only so many people who get to speak during a Convention.

[writes3000]

50. So they invite Tammy Duckworth to speak but tell Clark "you're not invited"

Don't buy it, LOL.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

62. Why the hell is Duckworth speaking?

[writes3000]

67. Because the Obama campaign invited her to. n/t

[Dinger]

63. Exactly

Would Obama do that? I sincerely hope not.

[DevonRex]

130. No way in hell. Don't worry. nt

[Sparkly]

83. I don't want to buy it...

I hope it's not true.

[karynnj]

152. True, and at this point neither Gore or Kerry are listed - both far more important

Democrats. This may be that the list so far is incomplete, or Kerry is speaking as part of the Kennedy tribute. It might also be as Mass said that there are few slots - and they were given for political reasons - to win.

[ErinBerin84]

52. what the heck

5 minutes ago the Huffington Post article had like 20 comments, but I just went back to the article and there are no comments there anymore.

[Autumn]

53. If this is true

I am very disappointed.

[greguganus]

54. No room for Clark since the Clinton Clan gets most of the air time. n/t

[Evergreen Emerald]

64. And...here we have it: the usual resort to "It's all Clinton's fault!"

Took you longer than I expected.

[greguganus]

72. Sorry, I was multitasking. n/t

[JoFerret]

91. Boo.Hiss

to you.

Clinton had over 1900 delegates. Get over it.
We need Obama to win.
Stop being such a spoilsport.

[greguganus]

115. I can't get over it no matter how hard I try. n/t

[JoFerret]

172. Try harder

because it is working nicely for the GOP to have you keeping up the divisive drumbeat.

[elkston]

55. I just don't see it.

Clark's little dustup in the media with regards to his McCain comments just can't be enough to make him radioactive. Not in the sense of a Reverend Wright or Kwame K.

Obama's got to have more faith in him than this and we need to stop being "afraid" of the Republicans.

No, I'm not going to beleive this until there are confirmations and I really feel like this is a red herring. Clark might actually be the VP.

[AmericanUnity]

56. CLARK COULD BE THE VP NOMINEE YET. IT WOULD MAKE A LOT OF SENSE...

[Dinger]

75. It Would Make PERFECT Sense (nt)

[jillan]

58. I wouldn't read too much into that.

The Obama camp has been very tight lipped on the VP nom.

This could just be a cover-up.

[That Is Quite Enough]

59. I know I'm in the minority, but I believe this piece.

Suffer no illusions, people: Wes Clark won't be the 2008 Dem VP. Sucks, yeah, but that's how it goes.

[Connie_Corleone]

60. WAIT A MINUTE!! I read on another blog that Clark was going to be out of the country.

I can't remember which blog I read it on, but they had crossed Clark's name off the VP choice list because of this.

This is nothing more than a smear against the Obama campaign!!

[jobycom]

69. You are exactly correct. The others are a bit too uncritical of sources.

Clark is scheduled to be out of the country, and has said he has a dinner in Milan on the Wednesday in question. More than likely, assuming anything in the OP story is correct at all, Clark's people were in touch with Obama's people to see if Obama needed him to break off his plans to attend the convention, and Obama finally concluded, "no, no reason to alter your plans, we've got the convention covered without you."

This may not even mean that Clark isn't involved, and may not even mean he's not the VP choice (I doubt he is, but the OP doesn't exclude that). He could make a speech through sat link, or through pre-recorded video.

Just more noise, exactly the way the media has created a fake battle between Clinton and Obama, and has misrepresented the roll call, and everything else they have done to try to divide the Democrats. A pox on all their houses, and a V-8 slap to anyone who keeps buying their nonsense. Didn't we learn not to trust them in 2000, and 2004, if not before?

[Sparkly]

84. That's crazy...

He'd rather go to some "dinner in Milan" than the Democratic National Convention?!? No way!!!

[americanstranger]

110. Hmm. Milan, Denver...Milan, Denver... Milan, Denver....

Really. Tough choice. :sarcasm:

- as

[Dinger]

121. Hey Wes, I Love You, But

I know when I see it.

[Sparkly]

123. Well, I don't think he was BSing necessarily...

He was saying that there were no plans for him to be at the convention, so he currently had plans to be elsewhere. I understood him to say that if he were asked to participate, he'd go of course.

[musicblind]

170. V-8 slap

I've never heard it referenced like that before but I LOVE it! :rofl:

[JTFrog]

85. Bingo. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. n/t

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

133. Right ! He is going to be in Milan. See my other post n/t

[tokenlib]

65. The whole thing of Clark having a business meeting in Italy during the convention has me baffled....

After being so involved in supporting democratic candidates and paying his dues to the party--something just isn't right. Why would you not want Wes at the convention?.. Or why would Wes not want to go?

I want more info--either someone is really wrong here--or all of us who respect and admire Wes Clark are going to be really angry and disgusted.

Something here just isn't right.....

[Dinger]

76. You're Right. Doesn't pass The Smell Test (nt)

[Avalux]

112. Clark has done a couple of interviews the past week or so -

he gives absolutely no indication he has been dissed by the Obama campaign. He's doing phenomenal work for Democrats in every state and it doesn't make sense he wouldn't "be invited" to the convention.

I agree - something isn't right.

[DFLforever]

68. What a bunch of bullshit

As if Clemons knew anything.

I guess things are going too smoothly in Democratic politics to suit everyone.

HRC and Obama have reconciled so lets create some faux outrage by throwing Clark into the mix.

[KT2000]

70. This better not be true!

The DNC is always treating Clark like crap and that is so wrong. He knows his stuff and flings it in the faces of stupid R's with ease. He does not shrink from standing up for what is right.

[pot luck]

71. This doesn't make any sense. At. All.

Why would the Obama campaign be so overtly rude to one of Clinton's top supporters? I don't believe it. I'm starting to think that Clark really is going to be the VP, and this is just something to throw us off the trail.

[tblue37]

150. That is *the ticket* I would like to see, but I don't like that picture of Clark.

It makes him look too much like that weasel Toma Brokaw.

[ContinentalOp]

73. I heard that Obama told Clark he couldn't come to his birthday party.

Because he's a poopypants.

[Dinger]

122. Yeah, I Heard That Too

:sarcasm:

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

77. This doesn't pass the smell test

Seems to me like either a full-fledged misdirection ploy (with Clark having already accepted the VP offer) or uninformed/purposely bullshit speculation by said blogger

[That Is Quite Enough]

78. Clark is gonna be overseas, people!

A bit of supporting evidence to this point:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6645121

[Sparkly]

81. Oh, come on. He'll be at the convention if he's invited there.

Sheesh.

[americanstranger]

113. He could even do both.

He could pre-tape remarks, or appear via satellite link. Technology's great that way. :)

- as

[Alexander]

79. I'll believe it when I see it.

[Arnold Judas Rimmer]

80. I'm not buying this one just yet.

True that Clark is on my "short list" for VP, so I'm a little biased on the subject, but considering some of the half assed nothings who ARE being given airtime at the convention, I find it highly improbable that Clark would be deliberately excluded. Christ, just look at the DLC snorefest of a lineup on Tuesday, with the exceptions of Schweitzer and maybe Hillary.

Can anyone honestly say that Steny Hoyer or Evan Bayh deserve to speak, but Clark doesn't?

[Dinger]

82. Word (nt)

[iconicgnom]

86. Nice smear. Like, Obama tells Clark, in effect, to f&^% off? Sure. Sure.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

87. HOW TO READ A STORY:

I was told by General Clark's personal office in Little Rock as well as by the director of WesPAC that he would not be attending.

A journalistic fact statement. No reason to doubt the two conversations occurred.

Clark was informed by Barack Obama's people that there was "no reason to come."

The quote is unattributed and is likely a characterization of what the Obama campaign said offered by one of the two sources cited above. It's sloppy, and should either not be in quotes, or the quote should be attributed, like: "Joe Smith told me that the Obama's campaign's message was..."

General Clark has been given no role of any kind at the convention.

Another fact statement. No reason to doubt that this is what the two sources believe to be the case.

Rubbing salt in the wound even more, the "theme" of Wednesday's Democratic convention agenda is "Securing America."

More opinion than fact. Presumably one of the two sources said something that could be characterized that way.

Wesley Clark's PAC also happens to be called SECURING AMERICA.

Fact.

This is a mistake in my view. There are a lot of perspectives and competing agendas about how to direct America's next national security posture -- and General Wesley Clark should be one of the top tier names and personalities at the table.

Opinion, and offered as such.

_________________________________________________

What do we know from the story? Clark's staff doesn't know of any convention role and believes he will not be in attendance. Either someone at his personal office or the Director of WesPac said they felt Clark was slighted.

That is what the story SAYS. It implies more than it says, as is unfortunately often the case.

[Lucinda]

The Convention website says Wednesday is Securing America's Future

http://www.demconvention.com/the-2008-convention-wednesday-august-27th-securing-americas-future/

It's not speculation

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

102. I only meant that the phrase "Rubbing salt in the wound" is opinion

[SavannahBob]

88. Google "Wesley Clark Fired"

Read with an open mind.
Ask yourself if he really is that tight with the Clintons.
Wes, you have been vetted, and found wanting.

[Clark2008]

156. Read something other than right-wing propaganda.

Which is extremely "wanting."

Or, in your case, live in fiction.

[Chloroplast]

90. Could be an elaborate ruse.

Clark could have a live uplink from Milan or he could be flown in just to give his acceptance speech. :shrug: We. Don't. Know. The wording of the article just seems a tad rude and I don't think that a campaign that has dodged such nasty digs would turn around and do the same to a man as well respected as Clark. It just doesn't make any sense. I like the thought of keeping fellow Democrats in the dark to ensure that Republicans are shock and awed when Clark is named Obama's running mate.

[Maria Wr]

92. Remember, Bill Kristol just "knew "Colin Powell was going

to endorse Obama --turned out to be a red herring. This sounds suspiciously similar.

[ErinBerin84]

93. lol...this blogger ironically blogged about Bill Kristol "stirring up trouble" with the Powell thing

he could be telling the truth about the source, but it's more the implications that bother me, and the framing, when the blogger does not have all of the knowledge about the communications between Clark and the Obama campaign. Oh well. I hope it's not true anyway.

[Skwmom]

94. They accused Kerry of dissing Clark in 04. It upset a lot of Clark supporters.

Now I'm beginning to wonder just how much truth there was to that story.

[Dinger]

95. Yup, And It Was "Mission Accomplished",

You know, keep Clark off the ticket, so we lose (even though selection 2004 was a fraud).
In the words of Michael Moore:
"What's the matter, what are you afraid of, winning?"

[Skwmom]

99. The Clintons and their hacks (Carville and Gang) were pushing for

Edwards for VP (and during the primary Carville and Begala on Crossfire would either not say anything about Clark or diss him while praising Edwards). I never saw the facts which supported the Clintons wanted Clark to win.

I was told by a long time Democratic Party insider that it was to be a Kerry/Edwards ticket, they would lose, but not by much, and Hillary would run in 08. I'll never forget the one political hack laughing on air after it became a Kerry/Edwards ticket and calling Bill Clinton a political genius.

With Obama, I think the strategy for 2012 is loss by a thousand cuts. Lets piss off a few women voters here, a few Clark voters there, etc. and hopefully at the end of the day they'll either stay home or vote for McCain.

[Mass]

107. Who is "They"? Clark was one of the most effective surrogates for Kerry in 04.

If you want to accuse somebody of something, at least provide some evidence.

[Skwmom]

111. I was a big Clark supporter in 04. When Kerry picked Edwards

there were posts about how Kerry dissed Clark in the process. Now, I'm beginning to wonder how true those posts were.

[karynnj]

124. He then dissed a large number of Democrats, by selecting someone else

That supporters saw it as "dissing" him is strange.

In fact Kerry, like Obama now, had a very secret process and until others started speaking in recent times - very little was known. Kerry himself never spoke of anything. Contrast this to 2000 when Gore's team leaked negative reasons for rejecting Kerry.

[karynnj]

120. When are you talking about?

After Kerry got the nomination, Clark was well used as a surrogate. So it couldn't be then.

Are you talking of the primaries, the only run in I remember was that Kerry hit back when Clark spoke of Kerry's service as "just a
LT" But, Clark was reported to have gossiped with the press concerning the fake intern smear - which it is rumored started with someone on Clark's staff - La Hayne, who Kerry fired.

Kerry is no known to "diss" people, rather he will criticize actions taken.

[Milo_Bloom]

98. I doubt they are this stupid.

It would be one thing to not choose Clark as VP; however, to shun him completely and inform him he is "not needed"... that is just silly.

[Dinger]

101. Exactly (nt)

[depakid]

108. Never doubt the supidity of Democrats and their consultants

or their ability to find a way to grasp defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Mass]

100. Several sources confirm Clark will not be at the convention

- Wes Clark Jr at dailykos, who says that he has been told that he did not have a speaking slot and therefore will attend the meeting that was planned in Italy,

- Matt Stoller at Openleft.

While it is clear that he was not told his services were not needed, clearly, he was not asked to take a role in the Convention.

[Sparkly]

103. "While it is clear that he was not told..."

I'm not sure that's clear.

And I think it's an insult if he hasn't been asked to take a role in the Convention, especially given the use of the "Securing America's Future" slogan.

[Dinger]

105. And Also A Big "Fuck You Wes" For All Your Help In The 2006 Elections

Big mistake if this is true.

[Satyagrahi]

104. Wes Clark Jr. yesterday on Kos: "my father hasn't even been asked to speak at the convention"

Wes Clark Jr.: "my father hasn't even been asked to speak at the convention, let alone had any conversations with the Obama campaign regarding the VP slot. He is simply not being considered."

by WesClarkJr on Fri Aug 15, 2008 at 09:21:59 PM PDT

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2008/8/15/193737/216/425#c425

Very sad.

[Avalux]

114. Wes Jr. is a blabbermouth. If Wes Sr. is going to be VP, he would not have told his son.

It wouldn't be a secret anymore if he had.

[Milo_Bloom]

116. Jr is spending an awful lot of time on this...

http://www.dailykos.com/user/WesClarkJr/comments


When people spend this much time and effort on something like this, try are usually trying to convince someone of something, there are 2 possible reasons.

#1) Need to convince people it's true to complete the illusion.

#2) There are some hardcore hurt feelings here. (Think Leo and the academy awards in 1997).


This one really reveals...

He kept the date open... (34+ / 0-)
For a long time but we have a very active business that he needs to travel a lot for. He wasn't invited to speak at the convention. I'm sure somebody in his office called the campaign and asked if he was going to be invited to speak because he needs to book meetings for that week if he isn't in Denver. Apparently the answer that came back was no.

If #1 is NOT the case... Basically, he EXPECTED to have a speaking roll, obviously felt he deserved one (which he did) and is pretty damn pissed that he doesn't have one and is getting as far away from it as possible (going to Italy, etc.).


If the Obama campaign REALLY excluded Wes Clark after all he did for the dems in 2006 (Basically you can thank him and Howard Dean for our majority)... they don't know how to win an election.

Sorry, but I still don't buy it.

[DevonRex]

135. Hi Milo. I don't buy it either. Not after the HUGE effort both

Obama and Clinton have made to unite the party. They have been masterful at it. In fact, I'm in awe of the great job they have done.

So I think one of two things:

1. He is the VP pick and they want to keep it a surprise, thinking that the absolutely hard core Clark folks are relatively few in number. Which is very true among rank and file dems. We at DU are not your typical dems. We know what's going on in the world of politics.

2. He is not the VP pick and "someone" is using this to divide us, since they did not succeed with the Obama/Clinton soap opera they tried to spoon feed the public.

One thing is absolutely NOT true:

That Obama would handle someone like Wes Clark in such a manner.

Even if he weren't so close to the Clintons, he is a remarkable spokesman for our party. He is frequently on cable news shows as an expert in military and foreign policy matters. He is a democrat that Obama needs in his corner.

[Milo_Bloom]

139. Question for you...

If Obama is not the VP AND doesn't appear at the convention, what do you think of Jr's statement which shows a significant amount of anger, basically saying Wes kept the date open, but was told don't bother?

I still don't buy it, but I am not sure how I will feel if all that goes down.

[DevonRex]

141. I'm not sure when Jr. said that. But I heard Clark say 2 weeks ago

that he was scheduled to be in Milan that night. So, he had not kept the date open as of 2 weeks ago.

One thing for certain is that Wes wouldn't want his son to go public with that kind of anger.

So, either Jr. is out of the loop or Jr. is being used to keep the suspense going.

No way would Wes want to show emotion in public like that. He's too well trained in not showing his hand, both in the military and in politics.

[Milo_Bloom]

142. Here is the direct link...

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2008/8/16/152850/162/66#c66


He kept the date open... (44+ / 0-)

For a long time but we have a very active business that he needs to travel a lot for. He wasn't invited to speak at the convention. I'm sure somebody in his office called the campaign and asked if he was going to be invited to speak because he needs to book meetings for that week if he isn't in Denver. Apparently the answer that came back was no.

It's not a fake out or some secret plan, he isn't going to be VP or probably anything else in an Obama administration, assuming he's elected.

What he is going to do is go out and campaign for Obama and plenty of Democrats in house and senate races this Fall.

I know some you think you can change this by launching VP diaries a couple times a day in hopes that Obama will be swayed by the "netroots." Dude, when has that ever worked with this campaign?

It's a beautiful day. Go outside and get some sun.


There is a lot of anger in that post, basically saying that Clark specifically kept this date open for them and suggests that before making the plans in Milan, Clark's office even called, but was told "no"

This line really gets me, "he isn't going to be VP or probably anything else in an Obama administration, assuming he's elected."

OUCH!

Now, obviously WesClarkJr isn't speaking FOR his father in this case; however, unless they are completely estranged, I am sure these subjects have come up.

If this isn't a fake, it is safe to say there are some very hard feelings between the Clarks and the Obama administration.

[highplainsdem]

154. Thanks for the link!

[Clark2008]

158. Then Obama won't be elected.

These people really don't know how to win.

Hello, President McDumbass.

[Milo_Bloom]

160. If this is true, I fear you are right.

To push aside one of the strongest democratic campaigners from 2006 would be absolutely insane.

This is why I don't fully believe it.

[Dinger]

151. That Deserves Its Own Thread Jennifer, It really Does : )

Good job!:headbang: :pals:

[karynnj]

153. At this point neither Kerry or Gore are on the schedule

There are many Democrats and few spaces. Clark was an aggressive HRC supporter so he may not expect to get a speaking part.

I am in the Kerry support group, and I will be surprised if he is given nothing, but if it happens I will assume that he didn't push Obama to add him in the speaking schedule and that he will work as whole heartedly as he has since his early endorsement.

[Avalux]

117. LOL - as if anyone 'in the know' would have told a blogger.

The selection will be sent out to Obama's supporters via text message - they will be the first to know. It's a fantastic way to tell us little people we're important. If word gets out before they send the text, then the whole things goes up in smoke.

The Obama campaign must keep the VP pick a secret. They would not tell Clark's staff, bloggers, even Wes Clark Jr.

[americanstranger]

118. To be fair, Clemons isn't 'just' a blogger.

He's pretty hooked up in DC.

http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/about/

Just sayin'. I get your point about who the O Team would and wouldn't hold privy to the VP pick, though.

- as

[shadowknows69]

128. This sucks if true

Obama should have Clark in his corner in a big way.

[gulliver]

131. I doubt it.

That would be kind of a loser thing to do, if true.

[uponit7771]

134. I need more proof than Clemons word at this point

[marlakay]

136. this is hard for me to believe i want some proof

that was said. it just doesn't sound like something obama would say.

[TheDonkey]

137. He should at least be there to attend and be a surrogate.

Sad to leave him at home.

[DCBob]

138. Could all just be an elaborate smoke screen..

or not. I like Clark but I will be happy with whoever Barack choses. His instincts have been right on so far.

[tbyg52]

140. This is just plain unbelievable. I await more details. nt

[WinkyDink]

143. No way he'd be told, essentially, to stay away.

[Catchawave]

147. He's an excellent speaker....

and could have been given a non-prime time slot during the day? Why snub him completely?

Just doesn't make sense. Any other notables "not invited" ?

[tblue37]

148. Damn! All along I have been hoping that Obama and his team would be wise enough

to choose Clark as VP.

This really distresses me. At the very least they should make use of him!

[KoKo]

157. Does this mean "Obama goes to Dark Side" ...Only NeoCons are Welcome?

:shrug" ?

Are there any NeoCons attending the Dem Convention or up as speakers?

[Jim Lane]

159. This is not "screw Clark", is not divisive, and is not stupid

What would Clark do at the convention?

He might be the VP -- a reasonable choice, for sure, but there are plenty of other good candidates.

Delegates spend their time doing all kinds of things. Most or all of the other people mentioned in this thread -- Gore, Kerry, Hoyer, Bayh, etc. -- are convention delegates. (Those four are all superdelegates.) Clark isn't a delegate.

Even as a nondelegate, he could give a speech -- but, as karynnj (#153) and others have pointed out, the number of speaking slots is very limited. I assume that Obama and Dean are looking at five times as many good speakers as they have slots, and they have to make some very tough choices.

Also consider: If you chose speakers at random from among Democratic governors and members of Congress, you'd have an overwhelmingly white male roster. That's not a good image to project. If I were in charge, I'd make a strong effort to include more women and people of color, which would make it that much harder for a white male to get a spot. Too bad for us white males, but that's politics.

For my part, I was wondering -- if Bill Clinton is speaking, what about Jimmy Carter? He's our other living ex-President. His emphasis on energy conservation is looking awfully damn foresighted. I wonder if they considered him for a prime-time televised speech about the energy issue. (He's another superdelegate, so he'll probably be there even if he doesn't have a prominent role.)

If they can't work Clark into the schedule, it seems like simple courtesy to let him know that so he can get something else useful done that week, instead of sitting in his Barcalounger and watching the convention on television.

[TwilightGardener]

161. Maybe Clark's importance to Obama and the Dem Party has been

just a wee bit overblown in the left blogosphere? Maybe Obama barely knows him, he's not an elected Dem official, he once had a failed bid for office, he backed the wrong horse in the primaries, and he shows up on cable as a pundit a lot--I'm betting that's how most elected Dems see Clark. Is that enough to grant him a speaking role at the convention, or require his presence? I mean, really--maybe they're just not that into him. I could be wrong, maybe he'll be the surprise VP pick, but I doubt it, and have always doubted it.

[Dinger]

162. Kicking Because

if this is true, I won't forget it, neither will a lot of other people.

[CreekDog]

163. item #2 of your displeasure this early morning

:hi:

sorry it's turning out to be a bad day for you. :cry:

[highplainsdem]

165. ???????????????????????????

[CreekDog]

168. which speaker do you propose removing from the roster to fit Clark in?

Biden, Hillary, Bill Clinton, the VP?

[BklynChick]

164. I call bullshit on this story. While he might not be the VP candidate, no way would Obama say this

[JNelson6563]

166. Oh geez.

Nothing like a little over-reacting. Love the sense of entitlement from the hard-core Clarkies. Glad Clark himself is probably nothing like that. He's a grown up and a classy one at that.

Julie

[PatGund]

167. I don't buy it

I can't see the Obama campaign being this rude to someone who's been stumping for them. No way, no how, can't see it.

There are some Clarkies in the PUMA camp that are going to eat this story up irregardless of the facts.

[musicblind]

171. While I'd prefer Hillary for VP

I wouldn't say this is true until other sources report it. Before anyone bashes Obama, PLEASE keep in mind the penchant MSM has for creating artificial quarrels amongst good standing democrats. I personally doubt Obama would be so tactless as to send Clark off from the convention and "rub salt" in his wounds. That isn't the Obama we know, and it most likely did not ever happen.

[Dinger]

173. Kicking Again, Because This Sucks (nt)

[scheming daemons]

175. Man, you're gullible..... You actually believe this?

[Dinger]

176. Well, Maybe

Still makes me sick.