Here it starts - Democrats starting to criticize Obama and his campaign.

[Mass]

No surprise, it happens at each election, but you can wonder when Democrats will stop this little game. We do not need to feed the MSM of these little lines. It does not help, it hurts.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/us/politics/17elect.html?hp

Allies Ask Obama to Make ‘Hope’ More Specific


Article Tools Sponsored By
By PATRICK HEALY
Published: August 16, 2008

As Senator Barack Obama prepares to accept the Democratic presidential nomination next week, party leaders in battleground states say the fight ahead against Senator John McCain looks tougher than they imagined, with Mr. Obama vulnerable on multiple fronts despite weeks of cross-country and overseas campaigning.
These Democrats — 15 governors, members of Congress and state party leaders — say Mr. Obama has yet to convert his popularity among many Americans into solutions to crucial electoral challenges: showing ownership of an issue, like economic stewardship or national security; winning over supporters of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton; and minimizing his race and experience level as concerns for voters.

Mr. Obama has run for the last 18 months as the candidate of hope. Yet party leaders — while enthusiastic about Mr. Obama and his state-by-state campaign operations — say he must do more to convince the many undecided Democrats and independents that he would address their financial anxieties rather than run, by and large, as an agent of change — given that change, they note, is not an issue.

“I particularly hope he strengthens his economic message — even Senator Obama can speak more clearly and specifically about the kitchen-table, bread-and-butter issues like high energy costs,” said Gov. Ted Strickland of Ohio. “It’s fine to tell people about hope and change, but you have to have plenty of concrete, pragmatic ideas that bring hope and change to life.”

Or, in the blunter words of Gov. Phil Bredesen, Democrat of Tennessee: “Instead of giving big speeches at big stadiums, he needs to give straight-up 10-word answers to people at Wal-Mart about how he would improve their lives.”




...
The one area he still needs credibility in is experience, and picking an Evan Bayh or a Joe Biden as vice president would help a lot with that,” said John B. Breaux, a former Democratic senator from Louisiana. “It wouldn’t be bad if he came out early and said who his secretary of Defense and secretary of State would be — that would address and stabilize the concerns about his experience.”
...

[SwampG8r]

1. starting now?

damn a lot of folks jumped the gun on this one i guess

[MarjorieG]

2. Gee, Breaux-Bush buddy lobbyist, but mostly it's Healy seeking this out. True, this is our M.O.

[ProSense]

4. Exactly. A page right out of the DLC playbook:

“It’s fine to tell people about hope and change, but you have to have plenty of concrete, pragmatic ideas that bring hope and change to life.”

“Instead of giving big speeches at big stadiums, he needs to give straight-up 10-word answers to people at Wal-Mart about how he would improve their lives.”

They're echoing Hillary's primary BS.

[TwilightGardener]

6. They're attacking Obama instead of finding out what his specific ideas

for the economy actually ARE, and then helping him get out that message. They should be creating the perception that Obama is a policy heavyweight--because he IS--instead of reinforcing the Hillary/GOP rap against him. That tells me that these assholes want Obama to lose.

[KittyWampus]

8. Has Obama's campaign been sending out talking points DAILY to every Democrat in the Union?

if not, it's his major mistake.

[Mass]

11. Because they are not smart enough to figure out that they are not helping

with these comments?

[TwilightGardener]

13. If they were REALLY concerned about the conduct of his campaign, they'd

simply contact the campaign and let them know. Nope, they want to go on public record as reinforcing the "lightweight hope and change enough with the big rallies and speeches" bullshit. They are openly sabotaging him. Bredesen, I thought, was an Obama supporter--I expected better of him. Strickland was a leech on Hillary's hind end, he's no help at all.

[ProSense]

14. Bredesen didn't endorse Obama until June.

He hedged. He's DLC and this is probably a push with Hillary in mind.

[KittyWampus]

25. If Obama isn't telling them what to say, it's his fault. The Republicans do it. It works

Get everyone on the same page.

[ProSense]

29. We're not Republicans.

Democrats can say what they want to, free speech. They should, however, be smart enough (they're Governors and elected officials) to know what's stupid and what's not.

Do you really believe that these officials don't know that Obama is not just about speeches?

[Mass]

9. Nothing new - Just a redux of 2004. They just changed their memes:

In 2004, it was about being out of touch, This year, it is about being lightweight. Apparently, they think repeating GOP memes is their jobs.

[blm]

21. Many of the same Clinton loyalist crowd constantly dumping on Gore in 2000 and

on Kerry in 2004.

[ProSense]

10. Exactly. Compare the DLC BS distortion to this, from

The Carpetbagger:

This may sound like cheerleading, but all available evidence suggests Obama really wants to have good-faith discussions about the major challenges facing our future. Accordingly, he’s offered pretty detailed prescriptions in every major policy area. I wouldn’t go so far as to say Obama’s pitch has been pander-free, but by modern standards, he’s been setting the curve on substantive, high-minded campaigning.

And have we heard from McCain? When he’s not describing his own beliefs in vague generalities, he and his campaign are talking up celebrities (Britney Spears, Paris Hilton), tire gauges, and arugula. Today, the McCain campaign — I’m not making this up — even went after Obama for taking his shirt off on a beach. Trivial nonsense stacked on top of trivial nonsense.

Posted here

[TwilightGardener]

3. What jackasses. Obama needs support, not critiques from the peanut gallery.

And they obviously are taking GOP talking points and running with them--I'll bet they never listened to any of his speeches, where all he DOES is go into specifics of his various plans. Fuck off, Strickland, you Hillary Bobblehead Nutless Wonder.

[Spazito]

5. I bet they are all DLC, big time DLC....

pissed off DLCers.

[Captain Hilts]

27. Then Obama should stop acting like a DLC'er! nt

[Spazito]

32. LOL, if he were acting like a DLC'er then all of those DLC'ers....

quoted and unquoted in the article would be lavishing him with praise instead of trying to undermine him yet, go figure.

[salonghorn70]

7. It Is Always Wise To Listen To Governors

They know their states best. Now whether all this should be said in public is a different matter.

[ProSense]

12. Claiming that all Obama is doing is giving speeches has nothing to do with wisdom,

It's BS.

[ErinBerin84]

15. bleh. typical. I guess this will be one of the media "memes" leading up to the conventions.

[elkston]

16. Are you f-cking kidding me! The nerve of these guys.

You're saying they did the same thing with Kerry? (I didn't follow that election as close as this one). I mean airing their misguided concerns publicly instead of contacting Obama's/Kerry's guys?

Unbeleivable.

As soon as the primaries were over, Obama started getting very specific on all his policy positions. Plus, the plans were always on his website from the beginning (I think).

Anyway, their bullshit about just giving speeches is lame. FUCK Strickland.

[MH1]

57. Obama was pretty specific on policy DURING the primaries

the stuff I looked at anyway.

What's happening here, and happened with Kerry (different meme), you had these weasel "Dems" going in public saying things to reinforce the right-wing meme. In both cases, the memes are false, but for some reason these a-holes go out and agree with the right-wing anyway.

I wonder what they think is in it for them, to sabotage the party's presidential nominee? Obviously they have no fear of significant repercussions. Or they are just stupid.

[Triana]

17. well well well...there they are - The Democrats who shall snatch defeat from the...

...jaws of victory. The DLC Repug butt-kissers.

INSTEAD OF ATTACKING THE CANDIDATE - WHY are these f*ckheads NOT out there building a WALL OF OPPOSITION to Corsi's book and McShame's smear ads?

WHY IS KERRY the ONLY surrogate doing or saying anything about all this (and Dr. Dean, of course)? WHERE is Pelosi, and WHERE are the rest of the Democrats on this? Clinton? WHERE?

WHY are Democrats pouring salt into the wounds instead of trying to heal them and strengthen our candidate.

ARE THESE PEOPLE really even DEMOCRATS? :wtf: ARE they thinking?! Have they even LOOKED at Obama's website and his plans for these issues? THE DETAILED PLANS he has published there?

I guess NOT.

IDIOTS! :mad:

[ErinBerin84]

18. they couldn't REALLY be concerned.

If they were, wouldn't they be contacting the Obama campaign and not whining to the media? Stuff like this really pisses me off. Absolutely no sense of loyalty.

[Ichingcarpenter]

26. DLC powerplay is my guess

and a NYTimes hit piece. I don't see many quotes from his story to substantiate his claim
except from a few known DLCers.

[DFLforever]

19. They want one of their own as VP.

Bayh, Biden, etc. Thus the noise.

Is Strickland in some kind of time warp? He sounds like his head is still in the primaries. Obama's been campaigning in OH with clear cut economic proposals. True, he's not promising a lot of goodies for which he has no plans to deliver. Maybe that's what Strickland thinks is missing.

[Berry Cool]

23. I think we have a winner.

This is their way of pushing to get the VP pick they want...but the VP pick they REALLY want is, of course, not Bayh or Biden, but Hillary.

The rest is just noise. They don't REALLY think Obama has not been addressing economic issues for the middle class. They just want to convince him he hasn't so they can talk him into picking Hillary, the supposed Queen of the Lunchpail Set, as his running mate.

[DFLforever]

35. You're right.

I was afraid it might be considered 'divisive' to mention HRC at this point..;-)

[cliffordu]

20. I dunno, maybe they could got to his fucking WEBSITE and read a little......

"Credibility in his experience" is bullshit for "He'll never be good enough.."

Presidents don't get anything done without the fingerprints of everyone in DC all over it.

Instigating worthwhile change is all he will be able to do. Instigate.

Bush instigated, too, by allowing Cheney and Rove and the NEOCONS run the show.

[bread_and_roses]

22. Well, hard to be "concrete" AND "centrist" AND please our Corporate Masters, which they also

demand of him, since real concrete solutions tend to piss off the status quo, who are doing just fine from ever-increasing inequality, UN-fair Trade deals, Federal bail-outs of speculators, the carbon-based fuel frenzy, and the Military/Prison complex.

[ErinBerin84]

24. just in time for the media to have a GREAT storyline before the convention

Again, there is nothing wrong with criticism, even if I don't agree with the points, but it's not as if these assholes do not have the contacts for the Obama campaign. I don't really feel like seeing this in a fucking RNC release.

[TexasObserver]

28. If their intentions were good, we would not know about this.

ERGO, fuck these DLC assholes. They're working for the other side.


While I agree that Obama does need to add some punchlist answers with one-two-three items, to reach some voters who need to hear that, it should be done in private to Obama. Or anonymously on a message board, so there is no public attention to it.

[butterfly77]

30. Some of the same people who criticize Obama..

and claim that we think he walks on water seem to think he should. I am so tired of these double standards they set for him. I have never heard so much criticism about a nominee until Obama..

[Mass]

31. I guess you missed 2004, in this case.

(and probably 2000).

[butterfly77]

34. I haven't missed a thing...

did any of them need to produce a birth certificate to prove that they were Americans...

[Mass]

37. They just adapt the request to the person.

It would have been weird to ask Kerry, who was born in Colorado, for a birth certificate. Even the most illiterate freepers would have seen through that. But they attacked him as a traitor and as having stolen his medals, which is probably the equivalent.

Short of the racism issue, which is obviously particular to Obama, my guess is that the attacks are as vicious as they were then. And the same Democrats who are now complaining about Kerry's campaign are currently complaining about Obama's.

[butterfly77]

38. Yes, they attacked Kerry and Gore..

but not the same this is on a different level...

[DU GrovelBot]

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[jillan]

36. Something else they are doing that needs to stop -

They need to stop discussing in full as to whether or not the Corsi book is going to hurt Obama.
Instead they should be talking in detail about Obama's 41 page response to that book. They should be reading excerpts outloud and make that the story.

Yes - I'm talking to you Schuster, Olbermann and even Rachel.
Thank god Tweety has been on vacation. He was the one that wouldn't shut up about the first book of lies.

[rug]

39. How long before someone here claims they're not Democrats?

[LWolf]

40. I've been critical of Obama and his campaign

for 19+ months now; ever since he declared his candidacy.

I have big issues with many of his positions. I have numerous issues with his campaign. Including stringing people along with unspecified "hope."

My criticism, and my reluctance, did not stop my fellow democrats from nominating him.

I'm sorry that more people didn't take a closer look at his positions before they nominated him.

I'm sorry he's the nominee.

It's true that more people have begun to question him since he wrapped up the nomination. Now that they aren't in all out war to prevent a Clinton nomination, they've taken a closer look, and have some concerns.

The party is not now, and has never been unified in enthusiasm for Obama.

Personally, I don't consider dissent a "little game." If my fellow Democrats wanted to avoid any "hurt" honest dissent might cause, they might have nominated someone who could do a better job of unifying the party. They didn't choose to do that.

For now, I'd like it if Obama were trying to unify the party behind him, instead of pandering to centrist/right democrats, independents, and republicans. I don't expect to get what I want, obviously.

When there is no party unity, bitching about people who don't like the choice that others forced upon them is not likely to bring that unity about. Better to appeal to the candidate, and the campaign, to bring your own people together.

[Berry Cool]

41. He specified "hope." You just didn't listen.

Plenty of people took a close look at his positions before voting for him in the primaries and did not have the problems you did.

And sure, some people are having "buyer's remorse" now, but that's more about them than about him. It will always happen, no matter what people do. And not all of them were "in an all-out war to prevent a Clinton nomination."

Dissent is not a game, but that doesn't mean the whole goal of the party should be to avoid offending or hurting anyone.

I don't believe as you apparently do that Hillary could have done a better job of unifying the party. I think Obama's doing his absolute best at it, but some absolutely refuse to get on board. And I see nothing he's doing as pandering to anyone.

You're in the minority now. Sad, but true. It doesn't mean you shouldn't have a voice or be listened to. But it doesn't mean you should be catered to so your widdle feelings don't get hurt.

Sorry.

[LWolf]

49. Actually, YOU have not paid attention.

First of all, I think I made it clear that I NEVER warmed up to Obama. My problems with him stem FROM taking a close look at him in the primaries, and before.

Some people look for other things in a candidate; obviously, some people liked what they saw. Here on DU, Obama (and Clinton) generally ran 3rd or 4th in polls. Not the same as the actual votes, of course, but he was not the first pick of a majority of Democrats. As a matter of fact, most Democrats, 44 states' worth, did not get to weigh in until there were only two left standing. That's not people choosing a candidate based on what they really want; that's choosing the best of whatever 4 states left us. Some of those voters may have gotten their first choice; many did not.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3649440

Not all Obama supporters were in an all-out war to prevent a Clinton nomination, but MANY WERE. Many of those whose primaries were one of the 44 who had little choice on the ballot.

You are correct; the whole goal of the party is not to avoid offending or hurting anyone. Which is exactly why it's okay to criticize the nominee, whether his fans are offended or not.

I don't believe that HRC would have done better to unify the party. As a matter of fact, I said repeatedly during the long, agonizing months between the rest of the choices dropping out and my own primary on May 20th, and a few more weeks after that until the nomination was locked up, that I didn't believe either of those two could unify the party.

I still don't.

It's also true that I am in the minority in the Democratic Party. I always have been, so that's nothing new. That doesn't mean that I stand alone. Just the Clinton supporters, not to mention those of us who supported neither of the final two, that's almost HALF THE PARTY. Now, usually, you'd expect the Clinton supporters to rally around the winner. This primary was so incredibly ugly, though, that there are still divisions, even among those who will hold their nose to vote for Obama. Even if you have secured many of the disgruntled votes, that doesn't equal campaign $$, energy, or work that will be needed going into the GE. A large number of people who have nothing to do with the GE other than holding their nose in the voting booth does not equal a strong party.

Rushing off to cater to the blue dogs, the centrist-right independents and republicans so that they don't get THEIR "widdle feelings hurt" does nothing to unify the "minority" of the party that isn't gushing over the "hope" you offer, without ever stopping to wonder if they "hope" for the same things the candidate does.

It's just my minority opinion, of course, but it seems the wisest course would be to secure your base, and unify your own party first.

[depakid]

42. "said John B. Breaux"

He's the very LAST person on the planet Obama needs to be taking advice from.

[dansolo]

43. Translation: We want Obama to adopt DLC policy positions

These guys are going to be critical of Obama no matter what he does. They want to push their favored choice of VP on him.

[MagickMuffin]

44. John B. Breaux works with Trent Lott in their Lobbying scheme

On January 7, 2008 it was announced that Lott and former Senator John Breaux of Louisiana, a Democrat, opened their lobbying firm about a block from the White House.

_______________________________________


Keeping ALL in the family

Breaux Lott Leadership Group:

Trent Lott - Partner
John Breaux - Partner
Chet Lott - Partner
John Breaux, Jr. - Partner

http://breauxlott.com



Who they lobbying for:

Practice Areas

Agriculture

Commerce, Science and Technology

Defense and Homeland Security

Energy and Environment

Finance

Health Care

International relations

Maritime

Space

Telecommunications

Transportation and Shipping


How much Lott has ranked in first quarter:

Less than four months after he left office, former Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.) has already scored a major payday downtown. The firm he founded with former Sen. John Breaux (D-La.) earned at least $945,000 during its first quarter in business, according to House filings.

___________________________________________________

The Associated Press is reporting that AT&T, the defendant in EFF's NSA surveillance litigation, "spent $5.2 million in the first quarter to lobby on domestic spying legislation and other issues." To put this into perspective, AT&T's spending for three months on lobbying alone is significantly more than the entire EFF budget for a whole year, from attorneys to sysadmins, pencils to bandwidth. For 2007, AT&T spent over $16 million on lobbying.

$5 million buy you? While AT&T's powerhouse FISA lobbyist Charlie Black left his firm BKSH & Associates to become Senator John McCain's chief campaign strategist, AT&T now has former United States Senators Trent Lott and John Breaux (the Breaux-Lott Leadership Group)

__________________________________________________________




I think there is a REASON John Breaux is trash talking Obama. His clients probably object to a Democrat in the White House. Especially a Presidential candidate who has been campaigning hard against lobbyists.

[Thrill]

45. This is why Repukes win Presidential Elections....And Dems lose them

alot Republicans can't stand McCain. But you just don't hear this type of shit

[ray of light]

46. Dems are foolish on politics but at least most are propeople instead pro-corp.

Nonetheless, they always look for a way to lose an election.

[Pirate Smile]

47. Blah, blah, blah. Reminds me of the criticism of his campaign in the Summer and Fall of 2007.

All the backseat drivers yapping - "he needs to go negative, he needs to start attacking, he should ...., he has to ....". Yeah, and if you could do it then you would be doing it.

I trust the Obama campaign to have a long term strategy which they are in the process of implementing.

[bvar22]

48. The same people that own the republican party ....

...also own the DLC. If they can't have Hillary (DLC), they would prefer a Republican president so that nothing interrupts Business as Usual.
It WILL get worse.
The Convention speaker lineup is almost solid ProCorporate DLC.



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[Scooter24]

50. I think it's good strategy...

You spend your primary season going out and getting people interested in your message and character. You build their trust and get them excited. Then when you officially get the nomination and start the general election season, you start laying out piece by piece, in plain English, how you expect to accomplish these goals.

It prevents the other side from spending months tearing apart all that you built up during the primary. Also, it allows voters to easily digest the information quickly and doesn't allow them to dwell on hypothetical's.

[patriotvoice]

51. "10-word answers to people at Wal-Mart about how he would improve their lives"

Lower taxes means more money in your pocket. 8 words.
Alternative energy: buy more groceries, less gasoline. 7 words.
Everyone gets health care: your children, parents, spouse, and you. 10 words.
Manufacture here, not China: more options, better wages. 8 words

And so on.

[Arnold Judas Rimmer]

52. Fucking DLC traitors

Leave it to these cowards to throw another election. :grr:

[BlooInBloo]

53. With supporters like these... It's no wonder we lose so much....

Of course, they aren't really supporters - they just mouth the words, all the while waiting for any opportunity to jump ship.

[populistdriven]

54. Fucking DLC traitors

[wolverinez]

55. Simple messages in few words. Play the game or lose.

It's as easy as that. Why we refuse to do this in presidential elections is mindboggling.

[bluestateguy]

56. This is Establishment crap, published in the Establishment's official newspaper

God, can't these people take 5 minutes to read the "Issues" part of his website, for whatever pet issue of the day they are sniveling about?!