Here's why I DON'T think it will be Wes Clark--flame away!

[Bicoastal]

As far as I can tell, Obama's biggest problem in attracting independents--other than racist attitudes--is his 4 years in elected office (at a national level) versus John McCain's 25. Sure, there are plenty of reasons why this shouldn't have any bearing on who we elect as president, but it is something I keep seeing on the Internetz. Only in politics could a 47-year-old man be considered "young and naive"...

And the major fault with Clark is that he's never been elected to public office EVER. Again, *I* don't care so much--the man was brilliant in the Kosovo war and seems more than competent on the domestic front--but the GOP would have a field day. I can just imagine the attack ads now: "They're the most inexperienced running mates in history. Barack Obama--4 years in office. Wesley Clark--NO years in office. And yet they want access to the highest office in the land. Can we trust...etc, etc." And this does make a difference to the sort of people who prefer experience in their politicians, no matter how poor this experience may be; if you look at the incumbency rate in the Senate alone, it's clear that people are perfectly willing to keep reelecting the same crooks over and over again (e.g., Ted Stevens) rather than take a chance on someone better but relatively unknown.

Let's face it--we need a VP candidate who at the very least has spent more time in elected office than Obama has. I prefer Joe Biden, but there are plenty of other good choices out there...

[Schema Thing]

1. Meh..

meh. just meh.

meh.meh.meh



mehzzzzzzzipit! meh....meh!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. None of them are absolutely perfect.

Clark: No experience as an elected official.
Biden: Too much time as an elected official.
Bayh: Too boring, DLC.
Hillary: Too divisive.
Webb: Wrote steamy novels.
Kaine: Weird eyebrows, not well-known.
Richardson: Not a great speaker, pissed off the Clintons.

And on and on.

[Dinger]

8. Good Points ocelot (nt)

[saltpoint]

3. I hear you on the merits of election to public office but prefer to

apply it to Nader instead of Clark, because IMO Clark is enigmatically attractive across many settings.

The military profile is foremost but his brains are what got him where he is. They came first before he ever got into West Point. He's a general. There's something in the American psyche that acknowleges that as an authoritative voice that might come in awfully handy for global problem-solving.

He speaks well. He's not cut from the Curtis LeMay cloth of military leaders. He's his own man.

He supported HClinton early on in the primaries but it seems to me that Obama is not a holder of grudges and would seek merit in his Cabinet despite their initial political affiliations, very much in the same way A. Lincoln forged his Cabinet.

Clark strengthens the ticket in more than one way but remains a justifiable pickeven if it were ONLY one way.

I'm aware of the media chatter that Clark is "no longer viable," but the evidence to the contrary, IMO, is overwhelming.

[gateley]

10. I thought Clark wasn't viable, too, OC --

But now that he's back in the frey -- working to get Obama and other Dems elected -- I'm hopeful Obama is giving him some SERIOUS consideration.

[saltpoint]

13. It's hard to tell what's going on with the veep search, which says to

me that the Obama team is likely handling it beautifully.

There was that dip of coverage in Clark for a spell there, but it does appear he's back on the speculative short list.

I never bought the argument that he was ever off of it, really. Obama is in a position to keep all his cards close to his chin until he's ready to lay 'em down on the table.

[gateley]

14. I thought -- assumed! -- that he was off the list

after "the statement" and Clark said he was through with politics for awhile -- just going to take care of his business. And it seemed that Obama distanced himself (again - my interpretation.)

I wondered if Clark, in "stepping aside from politics" gave up his position on Obama's Foreign Relations Advisory Board. I haven't heard anything about that group, so have no idea.

Obama is playing this brilliantly. And his campaign is to be commended -- no leaks!

I do wonder, though, if the Georgia/Russia situation is causing him to take a second look at VP - he may be focusing more on the likes of Clark, Biden, Richardson. :shrug:

[saltpoint]

16. I thought the same -- at least I THOUGHT I thought the same. Obama's

people are so good at this that I'm not sure WHAT I think anymore.

I'd be delighted if he chose any of the speculated-over names, but likely just as happy if he picked someone who was a total dark horse.

[gateley]

18. I just wish he'd do it already! :-) nt

[KittyWampus]

4. Clark was effectively GOVERNOR to US troops and NATO so his executive experience exists

all your post points to is whether or not he's run political campaigns.

[gateley]

5. You bring up a valid point.

And I can just hear your line coming out of the Republicans' mouths now --ESPECIALLY if they get a VP for McCain who has experience in elected office.

It's too bad it has to be this way, but we have to be realistic. We're missing out on some exceptional people, but the strategy has to be to get in to the WH (who will help bring in votes?) THEN we can utilize these people to help make the changes. Politics. :eyes:

I'm especially high on Clark and Schweitzer, neither of whom may get the nod, for the very strategic reasons you mention.

I think Biden fits the bill the best, although I'd rather see him as SOS.

[Dinger]

6. Alright, I'll Bite

Clark has a real bipartisan, independent appeal to voters.
If Obama's message is "change" (it is), it doesn't make sense to pick someone like Biden.
As far as a GOP field day, I think it would be the other way around. Let them try and counter valedictorian at West Point.Rhodes Scholar Wes Clark against, near last in his class fossil mccain. And what wars did mccain lead where not one soldier died in combat? Wes Clark was one of the authors of the Dayton Peace Accdords. What peace agreement/s did mccain author?
Wes Clark taught economics at the college level. How many college classes did mccain teach? Wes Clark's experience:

NATO Supreme Allied Commander
4-Star General
Presidential candidate in 2004, (Won Oklahoma)
Worked in OMB in the White House
etc.
etc.
etc.
etc.

[JustAnotherGen]

7. I'm not going to flame you

I love Wes Clark. Supported him 2004.

I think you could be right.

But then he can always shoot back with -

If McCain being a POW gives him a free pass . . . Then me getting shot four times and still managing to lead my company to fight back against the Viet Cong should give me a free pass too.

And - I kind of like the idea of 'outsiders' who KNOW things - like how to count to ten without running out of fingers and toes (think Dummya) being in the WH.

[Hepburn]

9. Never elected to public office....

...ummm, yeah, same reason Dwight Eisenhower lost in '52 and '56.

:sarcasm:

[TwilightGardener]

11. He should have run for something besides President after retiring--

even a billionaire like Bloomberg got his feet wet in politics by running a city before entertaining the idea that he was Presidential material. Clark just seems like a professional political hanger-on, now dependent on someone else to "appoint" him to elected office via the VP slot. It IS valuable experience to be held accountable to a constituency, to have to answer to voters, to uphold an oath of office, no matter if it's city council or the Senate.

[salonghorn70]

12. Won't Flame You

I think Clark would be a great choice but I just don't see a hint, a buzz, anything that shows that he is being considered on a short list level. Most of the buzz seems to have come from DU.

[dansolo]

15. This is not an experience election

Polls repeatedly show that people aren't necessarily looking for experience in this election. The people who would be most concerned, will probably find Clark's experience in the military reassuring.

If experience was a factor, Biden would have gotten more support in the primaries.

[salonghorn70]

17. Experience Might Be Viewed Differently In The General Election

It might be more of a concern than in the primary but I agree that either Biden or Clark would satisfy those concerns as would Bayh.

[MilesColtrane]

19. Hillary ran on experience.

That didn't exactly work out for her.

If Clark is picked and the question of experience comes up though, he can certainly point to his military experience.
The argument could be made that the most important qualities of leadership he possesses have already been tested as the commander of NATO.

It would be an advantage also to play up his role as an international peacemaker. The electorate is tired of the prospect of eternal war and would look favorably upon a candidate who has actual experience brokering a multilateral peace agreement, while still possessing back up "war credentials".

[Graybeard]

20. "Change" vs. "same old same old"

I think the voters are demanding change and the fact that Clark has not been part of the mess in Washington could be a big plus.

[Beregond2]

21. The only person on the list

that I can see being of any use at all is Clark. The "lack of experience" meme would look pretty foolish when applied to a general. (Eisenhower anyone?) The others are all unknown on a national level, except for Richardson, and he is one minority too many. Biden's disgusting pandering and showboating on the steroids non-issue was enough to put me off him forever, not to mention his other problems.

Clark's sensible words about McCain are exactly what is needed in this campaign. If Obama is determined to stay above the fray, he MUST have an attack dog on his team, and Clark is good at that.