The history of "SBV for Truth"?????

[skip fox]

In compiling a reference file (with links--see prototype as my first reply to this post) on the SBVets (SBV-Gate), could someone send me links concerning the history of the organization? I think there might be some dark corners we can shine a light on!!!!



Last night (23 Aug.) I heard a former Viet Nam POW on Fox (Hannity and Colmes) say that he was at a meeting "last month" after hearing from "Kerry's fellow officers." What the hell? Were they flying vets in and letting O'Neill pump them full of his obsessions? I terms of their founding &c., we might find out quite a bit that would be damaging (just to show the coordination, one or two men roping in the others, would be damaging because it would focus on the nature of contrivance. This link indicates that they were formed on or before May 4 of this year:

http://swift1.he.net/~swiftvet/article.php?story=2004070119350511

[skip fox]

1. Prototype of SBV-Gate: The File

1. Introd. & History of SBV

Overall story:

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/9455159.htm


History of SBV?????

Here's where someone might prove useful. Last night (23 Aug.) I heard a former Viet Nam POW on Fox (Hannity and Colmes) say that he was at a meeting "last month" after hearing from "Kerry's fellow officers." What the hell? Were they flying vets in and letting O'Neill pump them full of his obsessions? I terms of their founding &c., we might find out quite a bit that would be damaging (just to show the coordination, one or two men roping in the others, would be damaging because it would focus on the nature of contrivance. This link indicates that they were formed on or before May 4 of this year:

http://swift1.he.net/~swiftvet/article.php?story=2004070119350511

Kerry's official take:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4439188,00.html



Best job of debunking the SBVs for "truth" wingnut-by-wingunt:

http://swiftvets.eriposte.com/


II. Recent accounts (last 5 days) of Swift Boat Vets who were actually THERE! (What a concept):



1.) William Rood:

<Snip>

The commander of a Navy swift boat who served alongside Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry
during the Vietnam War stepped forward Saturday to dispute attacks challenging Kerry's integrity and war record.

William Rood, an editor on the Chicago Tribune's metropolitan desk, said he broke 35 years of silence about
the Feb. 28, 1969, mission that resulted in Kerry's receiving a Silver Star because recent portrayals of Kerry's
actions published in the best-selling book "Unfit for Command" are wrong and smear the reputations of veterans
who served with Kerry.

Rood, who commanded one of three swift boats during that 1969 mission, said Kerry came under rocket
and automatic weapons fire from Viet Cong forces and that Kerry devised an aggressive attack strategy that was
praised by their superiors. He called allegations that Kerry's accomplishments were "overblown" untrue.

. . .

Rood's recollection of what happened on that day at the southern tip of South Vietnam was backed by key
military documents, including his citation for a Bronze Star he earned in the battle and a glowing after-action
report written by the Navy captain who commanded his and Kerry's task force, who is now a critic of the
Democratic candidate.

<snip>


http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/082204Y.shtml






2.) Robert Lambert:

<snip>

Three Navy men won Bronze Stars for their actions that day: Kerry, Thurlow, and radarman first
class Robert Eugene Lambert, a petty officer in the boat captained by Thurlow. The citation for
Lambert's Bronze Star--previously undisclosed but obtained today under the Freedom of
Information Act from the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis--repeats the description
of the incident included in the citation for Thurlow's Bronze Star: "all units came under small arms
and automatic weapons fire from the river banks."

. . .

The difference was that Kerry, who had tactical command of that particular operation, had talked to Droz and
me beforehand about not responding the way the boats usually did to an ambush. We agreed that if we were not
crippled by the initial volley and had a clear fix on the location of the ambush, we would turn directly into it,
focusing the boats' twin .50-caliber machine guns on the attackers and beaching the boats. We told our crews
about the plan.

. . .

The first time we took fire--the usual rockets and automatic weapons--Kerry ordered a "turn 90" and the three
boats roared in on the ambush. It worked. We routed the ambush, killing three of the attackers. The troops, led
by an Army adviser, jumped off the boats and began a sweep, which killed another half dozen VC, wounded or
captured others and found weapons, blast masks and other supplies used to stage ambushes.

. . .

We called Droz's boat up to assist us, and Kerry, followed by one member of his crew, site. Some who were
there that day recall the man being wounded as he ran. Neither I nor Jerry Leeds, our boat's leading petty officer
with whom I've checked my recollection of all these events, recalls that, which is no surprise.


<snip>

http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3&pid=1692





3.) Pat Runyon

<snip>

Trotwood, Ohio - An Ohio factory worker who was with John Kerry on a dangerous night mission 36 years
ago in Vietnam said he has no doubt Kerry was grazed in a firefight and deserves his first Purple Heart for a
combat injury.

. . .

Runyon said Kerry was wounded after one vessel (sanpan) tried to avoid an inspection.

"Lt. Kerry said, 'I'm going to pop a flare, and when I do, I want that engine started,' " Runyon said. But the
outboard would not crank. Meanwhile, the sampan's crew steered it to the riverbank, and people started running
on the shore. Runyon said shooting broke out.

Somehow, Kerry's weapon stopped firing. Runyon thinks he ran out of ammunition. He said Kerry bent down to
pick up another gun and got hit in the arm.

"It wasn't a serious wound," Runyon said, and Kerry was able to start shooting again. When the firefight was
over, Runyon said Kerry told him all he felt was a "burning sensation."


<snip>

http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/isele/109265584379530.xml?isele


4.) Jim Russell:

<snip>

Three things that are forever pictured in my mind since that day over 30 yearsago are: (1) The No. 3, 50-foot long, Swift boat getting huge, huge air; JohnKerry thought it was about two feet. (He was farther away from it than I). I think it was at least four feet and probably closer to six feet; (2) All the boats turning left and letting loose at the same time like a deadly, choreographed dance and; (3) A few minutes later, John Kerry bending over his boat picking up one of the rangers that we were ferrying from out of the water. All the time we were taking small arms fire from the beach; although because of our fusillade into the jungle, I don't think it was very accurate, thank God. Anyone who doesn't think that we were being fired upon must have been on a different river.

<snip>

http://www.telluridegateway.com/articles/2004/08/20/news/opinion/opinion01.txt





5.) Wayne D. Langhofer:

<snip>

Wayne D. Langhofer, now an employee at a Kansas gunpowder plant, told
the Washington Post in yesterday's editions, "There was a lot of firing going
on, and it came from both sides of the river."

Reflecting on the battle in the Bay Hap River, which resulted both in Kerry
being awarded the Bronze Star and receiving a third Purple Heart, which
allowed him to end his combat tour after just four months, Langhofer
said he distinctly remembered the "clack, clack, clack" of enemy AK-47s,
as well as muzzle flashes from the surrounding riverbanks. Langhofer manned
a machine gun aboard PCF-43, the boat that was directly behind Kerry's.

<snip>

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/23/swift_boat_veteran_backs_kerry_on_details_of_1969_ambush/

6.-8.) Jim McCann, Rich Baker, and Del Sandusky (with Jim Rusell, #4, above):

<snip>

In a conference call with reporters arranged by the campaign, three
Navy Swift boat officers who served with Kerry 35 years ago but
who said they have not been in touch with him for years defended
his service and his bravery. Rich McCann, Jim Russell and Rich
Baker said Kerry served honorably and took issue with questions
raised by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth about his
commendations.

"He was the most aggressive officer in charge of Swift boats,"
Baker said. "With no disrespect to anyone out there, the whole
Swift boat operation took courage and guts every time you
stepped on those boats. But John Kerry was one step above the
rest of us."

. . .

In Pennsylvania, crewmate Del Sandusky said at a news conference
that he witnessed the combat missions for which Kerry received Silver and
Bronze stars and two of his three Purple Hearts. "He deserved every one
of his medals," Sandusky said.

<snip>


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26519-2004Aug23.html




*********************************************


III. SBV liars for hire who have recanted or qualified their original story:


a.) Alfred French in the SBV ad implies he was present at the incident, but . . .

<snip>
French said he is relying on the accounts of three other veterans who
were friends of his at the time. A fourth veteran with whom French was
acquainted corroborated their accounts.

"I was not a witness to these events but my friends were," said French,
who was awarded two Bronze Stars during the war. "I believe these
people. These are people I served with."

One of the men is Larry Thurlow. . . .

<snip>

http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/front_page/109300303292321.xml




*********************************************

IV. SBV-for "truth" and Republican collusion:

A shema/graph noting basic associations (and some contradictions):

http://nytimes.com/imagepages/2004/08/19/politics/campaign/20040820_SWIFT_GRAPH.html


<snip>

How the group came into existence is a story of how veterans with longstanding anger about Mr. Kerry's antiwar statements in the early 1970's allied themselves with Texas Republicans.

<snip>

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/20/politics/campaign/20swift.html





and:

<snip>

"A series of interviews and a review of documents show a web of connections to the Bush family,
high-profile Texas political figures and President Bush's chief political aide, Karl Rove," the Times reported.
"Several of those now declaring Mr. Kerry 'unfit' had lavished praise on him, some as recently as last year.
The story appeared in the Times a day after Kerry fought back against the veterans' allegations, accusing
Bush of using a Republican front group "to do his dirty work" and challenging Bush to debate their wartime
service records. "Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer: Bring
it on," said the Democratic presidential candidate, reviving an old war and campaign slogan amid strong
urging from party leaders for him to respond to two-week-old GOP assertions.

<snip>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5771731/



<snip>

WASHINGTON, Aug. 20 /U.S. Newswire/ -- Public records reveal that two of the people in the new "Swift Boat
Veterans for Bush" television ad are Republican activists, as the fact sheet below shows. This is just more proof
that Bush's Republican allies are the ones behind this disgraceful smear of John Kerry (news -web sites)'s military
record. It's pretty clear what's going on here. It's no wonder the Bush campaign refuses to condemn this smear.


<snip>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=669&ncid=669&e=2&u=/usnw/20040820/pl_usnw/more_republican_ties_revealed_behind__swift_boat_vets_for_bush___says_kerry_campaign141_xml




<snip>

"Bush Campaign Caught Promoting "Swift Boat Vets for Truth" While National Campaign Denies Coordination,
Campaign in Florida Promotes Rally

Tallahassee -- On the same day that the Bush-Cheney campaign repeatedly denied coordinating attacks with the
anti-Kerry group "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth," the Bush-Cheney campaign in Florida was caught promoting
a rally in Gainesville for the group

<snip>

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_08_15_atrios_archive.html#109303885084378264


And the Bush campaign even had a rally with the SBVs!!!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4439188,00.html

and DU's fine posts and members . . . on the job with cameras!! Wow:



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x657176

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x646015

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040821/LOCAL/40821006/1078/news&template=printart

And the Official Minnesota Republican Website links the SBV ad:

<snip>

Webpage "Prepared and Paid for by Republican Party of Minnesota" Found to Be Linking to the Swift
Boat Ads. In Minnesota . . . an official Republican Party webpage was recently found to be linking to
the Swift Boat Ads. The webpage goes on to . . . question . . . John Kerry's service in Vietnam: SWIFT
VETS ARE GETTING TO KERRY; DID HE LIE ABOUT HIS SERVICE, repeatedly, in an effort to
embellish it? DID HE TAKE CREDIT for engagements fought by other men . . .? The website also
contains a link to purchase the book produced by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, "Unfit For
Command".

<snip>

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=669&ncid=669&e=1&u=/usnw/20040823/pl_usnw/kerry_edwards__reports_detail_even_closer_ties_to_bush_campaign__no_wonder_bush_won_t_condemn_this_smear_his_campaign_is_behind

Or even the right-wing affiliations (with Charles Colson in the Nixon WH) of those making the charges
as these:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x647917

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=647199&mesg_id=647199

http://www.washingtondispatch.com/article_9865.shtml

[progressivebydesign]

2. Honestly? This SBVT smacks of "Clinton's Troopers".

Remember them? One of them had such a guilt attack over lying that he came forward later? He explained that they were all offered a book deal with millions of dollars in play. They were wined and dined and courted.. This sounds like what this group is all about. I have NO doubt they flew these guys into some swank place, wined and dined, told them this was their big chance to get back at Kerry for testifying about Vietnam (even tho his testimony helped to stop the dying over there). This is their big chance at fame, money, and importance.

When I heard Thurlow on Hardball.. I listened to his words carefully, a few times. He made his accusations. WHen Matthews began to press him... as to why this is coming out NOW, Thurlow said the most telling thing. "when I learned of Kerry's Master Plan... " He explained that he never said anything until NOW, because he had just learned of Kerry's "master plan". They are being courted, paid, and led into this. They are risking major lawsuits, loss of jobs (prosecutor in Oregon is one that is close to losing his), loss of trust, loss of stature, and loss of dignity, by participating in this smear. If they think that O'Neill and his merry band of liars will protect their asses.. they're wrong. The GOP looks out for no one. They use you.. and you're history.

Two words for those who are jumping on the bandwagon. LINDA TRIPP. 'nuff said.

[skip fox]

5. In a related manner . . .

The similarity between the attack on Kerry and those on other Bush
opponents, including McCain, suggests on-going and systematic
collusion:

<snip>

"It's amazing how similar this type of attack is to the pattern
of attacks I have seen over two decades -- in some cases
involving Bush's campaigns, in other cases they involved
campaigns in which Karl Rove was a participant,'' said
Wayne Slater, senior political writer at the Dallas Morning
News, who has covered Bush since his early days in Texas
politics and is author of the book "Bush's Brain,'' about Rove.

"In every case, the approach is the same: You have a
surrogate group of allies, independent of the Bush campaign,
raising questions not about the opponent's weakness but
directly about the opponent's strength,'' Slater said. "In every
case it works."

<snip>

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/08/24/SWIFT.TMP

[klook]

3. Disinfopedia

You probably already know about this, but http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Swift_Boat_Veterans_for_Truth has some info about the group's history.

[Junkdrawer]

4. Here's their first mention on CNN...

Anti-Kerry veterans group protests ad
Some featured in biographical spot
Wednesday, June 2, 2004 Posted: 7:52 AM EDT (1152 GMT)

(CNN) -- A group of Vietnam veterans opposed to John Kerry's presidential campaign demanded Tuesday that he remove a photograph that appears in one of his television advertisements.

In Tuesday's "cease and desist" letter, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth called on Kerry's campaign to stop what it said was the unauthorized use of the images of some of them in a 60-second biographical spot titled "Lifetime." The ad began running nationwide in early May.
...

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/01/kerry.ad /

[skip fox]

6. Got all the relevant ones and have incorporated, thanks. Send more to

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=69570#

Which is the 2nd prototype of "SBV-Gate: The File." Check it out. Easier to us now with sections clearly marked.