Lowering gas prices IS NOT what we need!

[polichick]

I wish Americans weren't so short-sighted. Both candidates are pandering to the voters when it comes to energy policy. It is well known by economists and the oil companies themselves that the best way to ensure that alternative energy initiatives are derailed is to lower the price of gas. The only way for us to turn the page is to hurt long enough to make significant changes in our habits and expectations. (The oil people I know say the turning point price is $5)

Andrea Mitchell just interviewed an economist that reiterated this scenario ~ Obama has an opportunity to teach now. Hope he jumps on it!

(I was listening without watching the screen and can't recall the economist's name ~ did anyone notice?)

[Better Believe It]

1. Right! We Need Higher Gas Prices & Higher Oil Company Profits!

You think we ought to march and demonstrate in support of the oil tycoons and oil speculators?

I guess you might be a zillionaire or ride a bike.

In any cases, working people are taking it on the chin and that doesn't bother you a bit.

Well, good for you.

[polichick]

3. Your response is the reason McCain is doing so well...

If we care about switching from oil to alternative energy (which we MUST do if we want to have transportation and heat once we reach peak oil) ~ we have to accept the consequences of 30+ years of neglect.

An economist on NPR suggested sending voters some cash to help them pay the high prices ~ but lowering the price of gas only lets people go back to their old habits and delays the development of new technologies.

[Better Believe It]

13. Nonsense! Let's Take On The Oil Speculators First!

If Obama and the Democratic Party leadership decide to take on big oil and the oil speculators McCain will be landslides in the election.

We want our gas and food prices lowered now!

Period.

Who's going to do it?

And how will it be done?

We know McCain can't and won't.

That's because he's a tool of the oil company tycoons and Wall Street speculators.

Obama is their enemy.

That's how it must be cast and presented.

The working class is waiting for that kind response and they want action against those responsible for their economic plight.

And unlike McCain, Obama should propose that Congress meet in an emergency session to pass legislation that will give the people relief from the price fixing and profiteering.

And McCain's proposal to drill all over for oil and building nuclear plants would quickly lose its steam and support in the working class. The election focus would turn to Obama's proposal to take on the economic royalists who are screwing up the economy.

You say the Republicans might filibuster against any law to end the power of the speculators and oil trusts?

Let them!

Let McCain and other Republicans take the side of the oil tycoons .... for a week or a month. They can't filibuster against the people and for big oil forever!

A long filibuster would guarantee their defeat in November.

[polichick]

14. You are missing the essential point - that Americans fail to support...

...alternative energy initiatives and conservation programs when the price of gas is low.

[TheWraith]

64. Even if you're absolutely right, it's not our most pressing concern.

The price of gas is killing the American public. It's destroying what's left of the economy, shredding the standard of living, losing people their jobs, and generally making life next to impossible. We need to drop the price of gas to keep the place running. Then we can deal with keeping alternative energy in the spotlight, because people won't care about alternative energy if they can't heat their homes in the winter, or if there aren't any jobs to be had.

And don't forget: every dollar in profit from the price of gas goes straight into opposing alternative energy.

[polichick]

82. imo global warming trumps everything.

[DangerDave921]

86. Nope

Global warming trumps everything? What about mass starvation? People living with no heat in the winter? People losing jobs because they can't get to work?

Global warming is gradual. This is immediate.

[polichick]

88. We've waited almost 40 years to act because nobody wants...

...to be inconvenienced ~ we can't afford to wait any longer. And we'll all have to suck up it up ~ with individuals, churches, local, state and federal gov't providing help to those who need it for gas and heating bills, and people giving up their SUVs and monster houses in favor of something sensible.

[DangerDave921]

90. Yeah right

I have to give up my house? My Toyota Highlander? Should I maybe stop going to work to save gas? Should I stop taking my kids to school?

Dude, put down the big ol' bong and get realistic!

[Hugabear]

96. "Global warming is gradual" LOL

Let's not worry so much about global warming and climate change, because it's a gradual process - there will always be time to act tomorrow.

Except that we've been putting that "tomorrow" off over and over, and now we are starting to see the real effects of global warming, that were predicted over a dozen years ago.

[DangerDave921]

73. you forget the old adage

Those with an empty stomach don't really care about the nuances of politics. They care about getting food in their stomachs.

Just update it to oil and there ya go!

[polichick]

81. Unfortunately, Americans who are comfortable stick with the status quo...

That's been our problem for 30+ years.

[Robyn66]

99. What you fail to understand or acknowledge

is that this is not about a bunch of people who are too lazy to make changes unless they are forced. It is about SURVIVAL pure and simple. And when push comes to shove the vast majority of Americans, no matter how much they actually want to do everything they can to protect the environment and move forward in alternative fuels will say SCREW GLOBAL WARMING MY FAMILY HAS TO SURVIVE!

If you can't understand that, you are out of touch with the people of this country and their suffering which is SIGNIFICANT.

That is where the Republicans get their ammunition to use against us and characterize us as Elitists who don't care about struggling families. Because of, with all do respect, people with your attitude.

First they need to close the En-ron Loophole, the government needs to re-establish regulations and fund bio fuel research. It can be done without killing people.

[Spider Jerusalem]

2. There seems to be a degree of demand destruction at $4 a gallon.

Demand went down 6% after the recent spike in prices.

And of course people are shortsighted and selfish; they'd rather have cheaper gas NOW to be able to afford to drive the inefficient vehicles they bought when the cost of fuel was cheaper than get stuck waiting for the development cycle of alternatives to catch up. This is an excellent example of why what is good for the individual is not always good for society as a whole.

[The Traveler]

5. The problem is that we have relied on markets

to perform our long term policy and planning function .... and that is simply absurd. Markets consider neither the good of society nor the good of the individual. They simply respond to issues of supply and demand, and they tend to be far more receptive to "short term signals" than "long term trends".

Had we the foresight to, for example, follow the Carter energy plan 30 years ago we would be extremely well postured today to deal in a market dominant fashion with the environmental and technological crisis we are fumbling with today.

And so now we have to screw the little guy in order to get the market driven policy engine to do the right thing? Or we man up, take the conservative myth head on, and inject some wisdom and analysis into our long term energy, technology, and environmental planning.

[polichick]

7. Yes, if gas hadn't reached $4 we wouldn't be having this discussion now...

What Americans don't seem to get is that whatever we produce here goes into the world pool ~ there is a worldwide price that won't be lowered because of the small amount we could add to the pool. Alternative energy is our only hope ~ time to face the music.

"This is an excellent example of why what is good for the individual is not always good for society as a whole."

You're so right ~ that's why it takes a great leader in times like this. Obama can do it.

[Joe Fields]

29. There is some truth to your comment...OTOH...

your comment ignores a large segment of society: the poor. There is a high cost to being poor, and trust me, there is a large segment of our society that earns 20,000 dollars or less per year per household. There is also a high rate of unemployment, and as we are aware, true unemployment figures aren't even reported. If a person has a car payment, car insurance,rent, groceries to buy,(which have gone up in some markets as high as 20 percent more than last year) then high gasoline prices are a killer. In most cases, poor people cannot afford the fuel efficient vehicles which would help alleviate the high cost of gasoline.

When you are poor, and have stretched a dollar as far as it can be stretched, then you begin to question just what essentials are you going to be forced to give up.

While it is true that many Americans are shortsighted and selfish, (and I see many examples on a daily basis) the most damning examples of that reside in Washington, D.C. Our politicians must be forced to legislate a viable alternative fuel program and infrastructure, and do it now. In the meantime, our economy isn't designed to operate on 4 dollar a gallon gasoline, and the result of it is a crippling burden to the poor in this country.

[Robyn66]

100. Yes middle and lower income families LOVE driving those 5+ year old cars

They are just not buying a new fuel efficient car out of selfishness. Nevermind the questions about the qualities of the batteries in those hybrids. I have been told they will only last five years and the replacement batteries are over ten thousand dollars.

There is no argument that this is a serious issue that needs serious solutions but many of us don't have the luxury to run out and buy a hybrid. We are first getting a pellet stove so we can survive the winter.

[hedgehog]

4. I'd like to see an additional tax on each gallon of gas dedicated

to research on alternative energy sources!

[polichick]

8. I like that idea!

[Marrah_G]

6. We do need lower gas prices until alternatives are in place

Some of us are in big trouble this winter.

[polichick]

10. Better for the gov't to send people cash to help out...

If prices are lowered the public determination to change directions will be diluted, allowing for the Republicans and big oil to continue with business as usual.

[Odin2005]

53. My parents are scared shitless because they can't afford heating oil for this winter.

But the Latte Greens would let them freeze to death as punishment for using oil. :eyes:

[harun]

62. Low gas prices means alternatives will never be in place (n/t)

[Marrah_G]

93. Some of us are facing almost 1000 per month heating bills if it is cold

and we don't have access to gas, we can't afford the equipment for solar or wood or electric because we now live paycheck to paycheck.

I realize things have to change, I want them to change, but I also have children I am supporting alone. I hope I can get enough heating assistance to help get us through the winter.

Right now it is 440.00 for 100 gallons. When it is very cold that lasts about 2 weeks.

[harun]

97. Sorry to hear that. I hope you get assistance.

Back when I had just got out of school me and two friends rented a house and didn't even bother to look when we rented it how it was heated. I had never lived in a heating oil house before. One day our heat wouldn't work and they said we needed more heating oil. They told us the bill and none of us could afford it. One of our parents helped. After it ran out again much quicker than we thought we didn't know what to do. We didn't have money for more and the landlord went nuts because he was afraid we were going to go without heat and some of the pipes might freeze.

Not fun.

[Marrah_G]

98. Most houses in the northeast heat with oil.

Natural gas isn't available on my street unfortunately. When I moved in in 2001 it was 127.00 for 100 gallons.

[Robyn66]

101. Our house is 198 years old and only has oil

we bought a pellet stove and have no intention of even using oil this winter. But we are some of the lucky ones in our town. There will definitely people freezing to death this year. But then they won't be lazy oil users anymore will they. :grr:

[Marrah_G]

103. I wish I could afford a pellet stove or even get a new oil burner or

or switch to electric or propane.

But with the high cost of living now there is no room left for savings.

Question about your pellet stove. If you run out of pellets and couldn't get more, can wood chips be substituted?

[Robyn66]

104. We bought 4 tons of pellets

and they say that is enough to get us through. Apparently there are so many companies making pellets now that they won't become unavailable.

That being said, I wanted a wood stove and hubby and I went around and around over which we would get for a long time! My theory was - You can always cut down a tree if need be.

I don't know if you can substitute wood chips for pellets. Pellets are sawdust (I think)

The biggest benefits to pellet stoves are higher btu output, you can fill the stove once a day and not worry about the fire going out and the storage is easier.

Beleivve me we can't really afford it either. We did it by using the stimulus check to buy the stove and are paying for the pellets with the Home equity loan or a credit card. But it was going to cost us about $5000.00 to heat our house this year so we are making a tough investment, because otherwize we would freeze.

[GarbagemanLB]

9. So you want Obama to argue for higher gas prices? Hello President McCain!

[hedgehog]

11. Don't call it a tax - call it a Patriot Bond!

Freedom from foreign oil!

[polichick]

12. I'd like to see Obama educating the public - an energy summit would be great...

Pandering to the public with gimmicks is distracting the media from covering the important parts of Obama's plan.

[GarbagemanLB]

15. low gas prices isn't a fucking gimmick, and real people are hurting. There is no excuse to want

higher gas prices, especially ones that come so suddenly.

[polichick]

18. Gas price isn't the gimmick - some of the candidates' suggestions are gimmicks...

As I just posted to someone else, the essential point here is that Americans don't support alternative energy and conservation initiatives when the price of gas is low ~ and we MUST turn the page on oil as our primary fuel.

The price did change too suddenly for many people ~ it would be better for the gov't to send cash to help voters cover it than to lower prices, and delay the big changes we need to make.

[Better Believe It]

16. Cut Gas Prices And Go After The Oil Speculators: Period!

It can be done quickly if Congress and Obama are willing to lead and take on the oil speculators, oil companies and McCain.

They can be isolated and cut down at the knees.

That's what people want.

No namby pamby stuff.

Just "get it done".

Seminars, summits, etc., are nice and can be useful things to do after Obama is elected.

If you consider taking effective and powerful action to cut gas prices "pandering" to the people, well you just don't understand the working class majority who want and deserve action to protect their living standards and jobs.

This election is about class and the economy.

Us versus the rich.

Don't like hearing that?

Well, that's the way it is!

[Yes We Did]

17. Gas is 4.29 down the street (down 30 cents) and Diesel is 5.29

Yes... we need to lower gas prices.

But everything else you said was right on.

[polichick]

19. If we lower prices, people lose the will to change. That's the point.

[muryan]

38. If you dont lower prices, people lose the capability to eat

Sorry, this one is an easy call for most.

[polichick]

40. If we don't switch to alternative energy, there will be no planet to live on.

[Yes We Did]

42. This isn't a black and white issue.

And you must be wealthy enough to where it isn't affecting you. Must be nice.

What I know is that in my small home town, the jobs have dried up and you have to drive 50 miles to get to work, and 50 miles to get back home.

Unless you have a motorcycle, it's not exacly cheap. Yes, gas prices need to come down. Just because they don't hurt your pocket book doesn't mean it doesn't matter.

[polichick]

43. You're making a lot of assumptions - I'm for the gov't helping people out...

But we have to avoid having people go back to old habits because the price of gas has dropped.

Of course I've had to change my habits like everyone else, but I think of it as an investment in my kids' future.

[Yes We Did]

44. I understand that, but...

What kind of a future are they going to have if you can't feed them now. I don't know where you are from, but in small town America, this is really really hurting.

They can't wait ten years for new energy to take place, they'll be bankrupt and homeless.

Do you get that?

We have an opportunity right now to make changes. And we should take it. Gas prices aren't going to drop overnight. They're not going back to $1 a gallon. But they do need to come down.

We know that changes have to be made, and they will be made. People are starting to get it now. Lowering the prices isn't going to change that, because they've seen it happen (4.50 gas) and will understand it can happen again.

There is no "one right answer" here, there has to be a combination, and part of that is lowering gas prices.

[Odin2005]

55. If we DON'T lower prices my parents will FREEZE!

:grr:

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

20. You are correct, but should probably never run for office

[polichick]

21. LOL - I know. But this time Obama's gimmicks are distracting the media...

...from covering the important parts of his plan. imo he should hold an energy summit where well-known experts can begin to educate voters.

[Robyn66]

22. I hate to sound like a Bitch BUT

It really pisses me off when I see people say that we NEED gas prices to stay high. I can't speak for others but the high price of gas and the fear of how high oil is going to be this winter in New Hampshire is a HUGE BURDEN that is hard for our family to handle.

We don't drive ANYWHERE extra and I am fortunate enough to work about three miles from home but my husband commutes a little over 100miles a week. And that isn't something we have any choice about. Moving isn't an option because if we tried to move to Massachusetts we couldn't get a dog house for what we bought our home for in New Hampshire.

We have cut back every possible way. Every penny gas goes down makes a HUGE difference to us. We would love to buy a hybrid car or go solar on our house but we simply can't afford it.

I am not unique. Most families I know are in the 60-80 thousand dollar a year income range and we SHOULDN'T be HURTING like this!!!

Maybe those who think 5.00 gas is a good idea SHOULD pay that and give a break to some of us who are trying to get through this hard time!!

[GarbagemanLB]

23. Exactly. This is when the 'elitism' charge rings true.

[polichick]

25. It has nothing to do with elitism, and everything to do with our kids' future.

[Better Believe It]

48. I Understand Your Feelings

That attitude pisses me off big time.

And it sure doesn't help get votes!

It feeds right into the Republican and right-wing propaganda about "elitists".

[polichick]

24. I agree with economists who say it's a better idea for the gov't...

...to send voters money to help them pay for gas and heating fuel, than to lower prices. As soon as prices drop, people go back to their old habits ~ which we can't afford anymore.

I've changed my habits like everyone else, but think of it as a contribution to our green technology future ~ finally!

[Robyn66]

30. I would rather see rationing than what is happening now

I work in municipal government and I can hear from my office the people coming in for welfare and fuel assistance. People who are out of work are coming in to get money to LOOK for work. One man had his wife and kids in a shelter and he was sleeping in his car. I have heard at least 10 stories like this over the summer and fuel assistance requests haven't even started yet.

There are people who are going to die this year because they will freeze to death because there just isn't enough fuel assistance money to go around.

It is fine in theory to say that high prices force alternative energy but the people who suffer the most won't be the ones able to buy the new cars or the new technology for their homes. THey will just suffer more and more.

Green technology is great and I agree with it whole heartedly but the fact is, it is not made affordable so the typical people will not be able to do it. Green technology is a luxury for the majority of us.

[polichick]

37. Maybe rationing for everyone - and cash for those who need the most help.

[Odin2005]

59. Here in Minnesota my parents are paying almost $5/gal for home heating oil.

And my step-dad has to drive 50 miles to Fargo and back every day for work. They are just making ends meet, they have no more they can cut.

[DangerDave921]

67. Not a bitch at all

Perfectly sound response. I drive a lot for work too, and don't get mileage reimbursement. So the gas bill adds up.

Where in NH? I have family in the tiny town of Piermont, just across the river from Vermont. Out in the mountains where you have to drive everywhere. I love it up there.

[Robyn66]

102. I live in the Monadnock Region

I absolutely love it here. It is beautiful! Clean air and water we abut conservation land. Its heaven on earth.

[Bad Thoughts]

26. Tax at the pump, but lower cost per barrel!

Higher gas prices would get Americans to turn to alternative transportation and alternative energy. However, the current gas prices reflect commodity inflation, not taxation. Correspondingly, we pay for the price of gas not just at the pump, but at the grocery store, at the mall, and on our heating bills. Five dollar gas, as a result of its rising cost on the global market, would have a catastrophic effect on average families in this country.

[polichick]

27. That would be great - and use the tax for alternative energy research...

But most Americans don't know that the price is a worldwide price, which won't be lowered by the small amount that we could contribute to the world pool by more drilling. Demand will continue to rise right up to peak oil, and then we're up shit's creek if we haven't developed other technologies.

[Bad Thoughts]

28. There are things that can be done to lower price at market

Unfortunately, Americans, consumers of most of the world's oil, buy it at the prices that Chinese are willing to spend with currency that no one wants. Obama would be wise to pursue a strong dollar policy. It wouldn't solve the energy problem, but would provide some relief with regard to all commodities. He could call it "dollar patriotism" to appeal to the culture warriors, too.

Some market regulation would be useful, too.

[Robyn66]

32. More drilling is a gimmick idea

it will not really solve anything.

The American people are already dealing with pay structures that have not kept up with inflation. Even when the country was supposedly doing well I didn't know of anyone getting big raises or doing particularly well at work.

Maybe if you are in a certain tax bracket you should have to pay 10.00/gal because you can afford to feed and clothe your family, pay your mortgage and car payments and support high ideals

[polichick]

33. Yes, I wish Obama hadn't caved on the drilling thing...

But he's making a political decision based on a falsehood people believe ~ maybe it'll help him win.

[Bad Thoughts]

35. Take solace ...

... that the benefits from energy research will be seen before a drop of new oil. The off-shore wells can close as soon as they open.

[polichick]

36. That's what I'm hoping! :)

[DangerDave921]

79. Progressive payments?

I've always wondered why we -- as a nation -- support progressive income tax but would scream bloody murder if we implemented progressive payments at other places. For example, the same dinner at your favorite restaurant would have different prices based on your income level. The guy making $20k per year would pay $5 for the meal, whereas the guy making $200k per year would pay $30 for the same meal. No one would stand for that!

[DailyGrind51]

31. You're right, Obama needs to push alternatives, first!

If the speculators thought that we were going to engage in a national alternative fuels research initiative, they would pull their money out of petroleum and the price per barrel would fall, without a single fresh well being drilled!

[polichick]

34. True - maybe Gore could help in educating people about this.

[DailyGrind51]

39. You're right, Gore and other energy policy analysts need to be more prominent

in educating the general public about a balanced energy mix de-emphasizing oil as renewable sources come on line.

[polichick]

41. I sent my idea for an energy summit to the campaign, but who knows...

Think I'll call my Congressman about it ~ he's a good friend of Barack's and great on the environment.

I'd love to see a big important event that the media will HAVE to cover!

[DailyGrind51]

94. You will probably hear back from them!

Obama and Durbin are my Senators and get responses to all of my e-mails. Representative Schakowsky is the same way. Your summit should have its conclusions drawn up in emergency legislation to be considered immediately by both houses.:thumbsup:

[ebdarcy]

45. I'm sorry, but I disagree.

We absolutely must lower gas prices. Don't get me wrong, I don't support a gas-tax holiday, or opening up ANWR, or more off-shore drilling. I wholeheartedly support more funding for alternative energy. But something has to be done about gas prices.

Higher gas prices means higher food prices, sluggish sales, and an even weaker economy. It means higher overheads and premiums, and fewer jobs. Fewer jobs means more reliance on food banks and charities which are getting fewer donations because people can't afford to donate.

People are trying to adjust, but it's hard. If you have already eliminated everything but the essentials, how do you find the extra thirty or forty dollars that you need for gas so you can get to work?

There was a story in the paper a couple of weeks ago about how bus ridership has spiked because of the high costs of gas. Once the buses get full, they don't stop to pick up more passengers. Those left at the stops have to wait for the next bus. I can't imagine that I live in the only city with inadequate mass transit. So, what are people supposed to do?

These aren't hypothetical people that are hurting. These are real people who are suffering and having to make impossible choices. The gas prices have to come down.

[DangerDave921]

83. According to OP

you're going to have to accept the pain and suffering you describe in order to get more investment in alternative energy. Sucks to be them, huh?

Of course we need lower gas prices.

[DefenseLawyer]

46. Do you have a job?

If so, do you have to drive to get to work? You may think telling to working poor to just suck it up and pay $5.00 a gallon for gasoline is the right thing to do, but I for one am not on board.

[polichick]

47. For the tenth time on this thread, I agree with economists who say...

...it's better to send checks to those really in need to cover high gas costs than it is to lower the price before we have other technologies in the pipeline.

[DefenseLawyer]

49. I understand your position

You want a government subsidy for big oil in the name of helping "those really in need" in order to keep the price of oil and exxon profits high. How are we paying for this subsidy to big oil? How much do you plan to give them? How long will the subsidy last? and you qualifies as being "really in need"? I'd like to here the details of your plan.

[polichick]

50. Obviously, you don't understand my position - and you've completely missed...

...the point of the op ~ but it's all here on the thread if you care to read.

[DefenseLawyer]

52. I understand your point

I just don't think it is practical or fair. If you can answer any of those questions I posed, you could probably clear it up, but don't bother, I don't have any more time to devote to this discussion today.

[polichick]

56. I don't want to waste my time answering questions about a subsidy to big oil...

...that I didn't suggest.

[DefenseLawyer]

60. Having the government give money

to people to pay inflated fuel costs is a subsidy to big oil. You may not want to call it that, but that's what it is. But fine, all it something different, call it the "help the poor pay for gas subsidy". Who gets it? How do we pay for it? How long does it last?

[polichick]

66. The price of oil is determined on a worldwide basis...

...and depends on supply and demand, as well as speculation. It's not a matter of the oil companies inflating prices willy-nilly. If you compare their profits, percentage-wise, to other industries you'll see that they are in line. We can lower prices by controlling speculation and lessening demand ~ but I hope it doesn't happen so fast that Americans go back to old habits and lose the will to change.

[DefenseLawyer]

78. Big Oil profits are "in line"?

Well I think you have answered my questions after all.

[polichick]

85. If you're talking percentage - yes. I was surprised to find that's true.

[DefenseLawyer]

92. Comparing the profit margin

on the sale of a commodity, such as oil or gasoline with that of other industries, such as banking or electronics or pharmaceuticals is a bit of a canard. A 10% profit margin on a commodity is ridiculously high, particularly in what you claim to be a "competitive" market where price is determined by supply and demand.

[DangerDave921]

91. profit margin

In terms of profit margin, big oil is perfectly in line with other major industries, and even have a lower profit margin than others such as Pharm, and electronics. You can't look at profits in a vacuum; you have to look at profit margin, i.e., the amount of investment compared to the amount of profit.

[Odin2005]

51. That is both political suicide and "Latte Green" classism.

There are millions of people, including my mom and stepdad, struggling to make ends meet and are in a situation in which they are stuck having to use a car, often rusty old clunkers with sh*t gas mileage, to get to work. Not everyone lives in places with decent public transportation, or can afford an apartment or condo in a gentrified inner-city area, or can afford a Prius hybrid. People need to be either given time to adjust or the government needs to help people monetarily so people can afford to adjust quicker and help state and local governments with mass transit.

[polichick]

61. Yes, as I've said numerous times, I agree with those economists...

...who say that many Americans will need help ~ but that it's better to give them cash than to bring gas prices so low that people lose the will to change habits and support new technologies.

[DefenseLawyer]

63. Who are these economists, by the way? n/t

[DangerDave921]

69. they are the ones

who apparently are rich and can afford hybrids.

[polichick]

71. Or the ones who are telling the truth, no matter how ugly that is...

Just today there was one interviewed on NPR and one by Andrea Mitchell ~ I'll see if I can find their names.

[Franc_Lee]

54. Does anyone in here actually believe gas prices will be high weeks before the election?

they'll simply do what they did before the 06 elections.

[polichick]

57. Prices will drop (already are) to ensure that Republicans have a chance...

...to stay in office and maintain the status quo.

[DangerDave921]

87. Who is "they"

And what did they do?

[DangerDave921]

58. ROFL

Just for fun, I'd like to see Obama float that balloon out there and see how it flies. Let's hear him tell people that he wants to see $5 per gallon, heck even $6 per gallon because that's what will move us to alternative energy. And then we can watch him lose all 50 states this November.

Nice try, though.

[harun]

65. He can't say it, but we can (n/t)

[polichick]

68. Obama has adopted a bunch of gimmicks he doesn't believe in...

...because he knows Americans have trouble with the ugly truth when it comes to this issue.

[DangerDave921]

75. I've said other places

that oil could easily be THE defining issue this November. Not the war (anyone remember that even?; or the environment or taxes). And if Obama continues on with his "no drilling" approach, he's going to lose big in the rust belt states. That's why he's already softened his position on that issue. Whether drilling is right or wrong, McCain has come out on top in yelling for drilling because it makes a nice common-sense argument. If Obama takes the anti-drilling option, he will get banged up a lot.

[polichick]

77. Problem is, ever since Obama came out with his gimmicks...

...the media doesn't cover the important part of his plan ~ that's why I'd like to see him hold an energy summit.

[Milo_Bloom]

70. Ross Perot siad this YEARS AGO

and was lambasted for daring to suggest $2.50 per gallon when gas was hovering around $1.00

You are 100% correct, but not finding a way to lower gas prices and suggesting it is a sure fire way for Obama to lose.

[polichick]

76. Yeah, they have to pretend there's a quick fix when there isn't...

Sad that Americans insist on being lied to.

[Milo_Bloom]

80. I wonder where we would be on energy if someone had followed Perot's lead?

$2.50 per gallon in 1992 would have sent gas companies scrambling for alternative fuels.

The debt would have paid down with the additional tax revenue generated while they were scrambling.

By this time, the concept of a war in the middle east would be idiotic, because we wouldn't care about what they had.

[polichick]

84. Yep - or if we'd listened to Jimmy Carter in 1977...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y6pPF_lzsU

[Better Believe It]

95. There Is A Quick Fix To Dramatically Reduce High Gas Prices!

Just pass legislation that will eliminate wild uncontrolled speculation in oil prices.

That has been the major cause of the dramatic increase in oil prices.

Read these articles:

Weekend Edition
July 12 / 13, 2008

Supplies and Speculators
Is There an Oil Shortage?
By ISMAEL HOSSEIN-ZADEH
Ismael Hossein-zadeh, author of the recently published The Political Economy of U.S. Militarism (Palgrave-Macmillan 2007), teaches economics at Drake University, Des Moines, Iowa.

.... claims of an oil shortage are not supported by facts. Evidence shows that, in reality, there is no discrepancy between production and consumption of oil on a global level. Citing statistical evidence of parity between production and consumption of oil, OPEC President Chakib Khelil recently emphasized that there was no shortage of oil: "As far as fundamentals are concerned I think we have equilibrium between supply and demand. . . . In fact right now we have more supply than demand."<2>

Facts of abundant oil supplies in global markets are now also being acknowledged and reported by mainstream media. For example, Ed Wallace of Business Week recently reported that “that worldwide production of oil has risen 2.5% in the first quarter, while worldwide demand has grown by only 2%.

Production is expected to increase by 3.3% in the second quarter, and by as much as 4.1% by the third quarter. The net result is that the U.S. daily buffer for oil production against demand, which was a paltry 1.5 million barrels as recently as 2005, is now up to 3 million barrels in excess capacity today.”

Wallace then asks, “So what is going on here? Why would our Energy Secretary say there's a supply and demand problem when none exists? Why would he say that speculators have little or nothing to do with the incredibly high price of oil and gasoline, when it's clear they do? President Bush—a former oilman—gives the ever-growing demand for gasoline as the primary reason prices are so high, yet that notion can be dispelled with one minute of research.”<3>

So, if indeed there is no imbalance between production and consumption of oil in global markets, how do we then explain the skyrocketing oil prices?

Please read the entire article at:
http://www.counterpunch.org/zadeh07122008.html

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No oil shortage in markets: OPEC chief
Reuters
June 24, 2008

OPEC President Chakib Khelil reiterated on Tuesday that there was no shortage of oil available on markets and the recent record prices of petroleum were due to other factors.

"Our view from a producers' point of view ... is that as far as fundamentals are concerned I think we have equilibrium between supply and demand," Khelil said. "In fact right now we have more supply than demand."

Factors behind the surge in oil prices included the slump in the value of the US dollar in the wake of the subprime crisis and an influx of funds seeking new areas for investment, he said after a meeting with European Union officials.

Asked about the outlook for oil prices, Khelil said he believed markets were watching for how the dollar performed in July and the situation involving Iran, which is in a stand-off with the United States over its nuclear programme.

http://www.financialexpress.com/news/No-oil-shortage-in... /

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PERHAPS 60% OF TODAY'S OIL
PRICE IS PURE SPECULATION
by F. William Engdahl
Financial Sense
Editorial
May 2, 2008

In the most recent sustained run-up in energy prices, large financial institutions, hedge funds, pension funds, and other investors have been pouring billions of dollars into the energy commodities markets to try to take advantage of price changes or hedge against them. Most of this additional investment has not come from producers or consumers of these commodities, but from speculators seeking to take advantage of these price changes. The CFTC defines a speculator as a person who “does not produce or use the commodity, but risks his or her own capital trading futures in that commodity in hopes of making a profit on price changes.”

That would mean today that at least $50 to $60 or more of today’s $115 a barrel price is due to pure hedge fund and financial institution speculation. However, given the unchanged equilibrium in global oil supply and demand over recent months amid the explosive rise in oil futures prices traded on Nymex and ICE exchanges in New York and London it is more likely that as much as 60% of the today oil price is pure speculation. No one knows officially except the tiny handful of energy trading banks in New York and London and they certainly aren’t talking.

By purchasing large numbers of futures contracts, and thereby pushing up futures prices to even higher levels than current prices, speculators have provided a financial incentive for oil companies to buy even more oil and place it in storage. A refiner will purchase extra oil today, even if it costs $115 per barrel, if the futures price is even higher.

As a result, over the past two years crude oil inventories have been steadily growing, resulting in US crude oil inventories that are now higher than at any time in the previous eight years. The large influx of speculative investment into oil futures has led to a situation where we have both high supplies of crude oil and high crude oil prices.


Please read the entire article at:

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/engdahl/2008/0...

[MichiganVote]

72. Maybe you don't Chester Cheetoh but I do. And I check my tire pressure.

[book_worm]

74. Believe it or not there are people who are having a hard time with these high gas and energy prices

including electric and heating costs. Not everybody can afford this and not everybody is close to mass transit.

[polichick]

89. It's been fun everyone - thanks for your input! Gotta go to our Obama office reopening. :)

[ileus]

105. I welcome lower prices, so does my grocery budget.

People need to insist on alternative transportation and fuels. But....those diesel rigs that bring everything to stores across America won't be battery powered for a long while. The bucket truck that repairs your powerlines after a storm will always weigh 12 tons. The Diesel engine that pulls 400 ton train cars will never be battery powered. At some point and time in the future, petrol will need to be regulated to industry only, the rest of us will run new petrol free technologies. The government must move us toward this without option this is the only way to make our limited oil supplies last.