Kerry's campaign now says is possible first Purple Heart

[okieinpain]

Kerry's campaign now says is possible first Purple Heart was awarded for unintentional self-inflicted wound...


Kerry received Purple Heart for wounds suffered on 12/2/68...


In Kerry's own journal written 9 days later, he writes he and his crew, quote, 'hadn't been shot at yet'... Developing...

http://www.drudgereport.com/

I did not post in lbn because this is just drudge gossip, but if this shit is true, he will drop like a mofo in the polls and it will basically be over.

I truly hope this is some of drudge's bs, and it will disappear from his page never to be heard again.

[Frodo]

1. hogwash

This is not "news". It came originally from the RW blogs and is weeks old.

It very well may be true, but it isn't going to "sink" Kerry.

[LTR]

2. Drudge is usually full of shit

If the Kerry camp caves in to this, they are making a HUGE mistake.

Kerry should be on the offensive. No private citizen has the right to question any military commendations. Fuck 'em.

Sounds like Drudge bullshit. I can't believe the Kerry campaign would be this stupid to cave in like this. Leave it be - Swiftnuts is starting to die anyway.

[okieinpain]

5. he better not cave into this. he better not. if he comes up

with this shit now I'm going to be really pissed.

[blm]

22. Hyperventilating over THIS? Geez!!!!!

Didn't you read Runyon's story of serving with Kerry on that day?

My undergod, the hysteria you are putting forth over this is amazing.

Wow...so much worse than Bush going AWOL, eh?

[annxburns]

3. Oh, please. This is pushed by Drudge and the National

Review. Yesterday, someone came forward to say he was there when Kerry got the first purple heart and he deserved it. And, BTW, DOLE got his first purple heart this way.

I am sick of people saying "Oh, it's all over for Kerry". What are you trying to accomplish with this crap?

[okieinpain]

6. but if kerry comes out with some crap like this now. it's going to

look like what else is he not telling. this will be the subject from now till november.

[freetobegay]

8. Why are you so hell bent on wanting to believe this?

Consider the source.

[okieinpain]

13. I understand, but you have to agree kerry better not let this ride

he or someone better get on this shit fast. he better not even show a small hint of agreeing to this shit. hell even if they produced a video of doing something goofy, he had better denie it to the end.

[still_one]

9. the neocons are really running scared. read what I got from the campaign

To:
From:
Re:
Date: The Kerry-Edwards Campaign
Mark Mellman, Senior Strategist
Where Bush-Cheney Needs To Be
August 24, 2004

As a senior strategist for John Kerry, I have prepared this update for the campaign's most active supporters as we enter the crucial weeks ahead. It's clear that your support has put this campaign in such a strong position as we enter a critical period. Your hard work, activism, and contributions have allowed our campaign to match the Bush campaign on the airwaves and on the ground. I can report that all you've done is now paying off when it counts the most.

By any standard, President Bush heads into his convention in a very weak position. His current position stems from the fact that voters judge the incumbent on his performance and on the state of the nation. By this measure, the president is in grave difficulty. To be counted a success, the Republican convention must fundamentally alter public attitudes on President Bush's stewardship of the country.

There are some basic benchmarks by which an incumbent's success can be measured as the campaign heads into the fall:

The average winning incumbent has had a job approval rating of 60%. Indeed, every incumbent who has won reelection has had his job approval in the mid-50's or higher at this point. In recent polling, Bush's average approval rating has been 48%. President Bush must emerge from his convention having dramatically altered public perception of his performance in office.
In recent years, when incumbents have gone on to victory, 52% of voters, on average, said the country was on the right track. Now, just 37% think things are moving in the right direction. Thus, President Bush must convince the electorate that the nation is in much better shape than voters now believe to be the case.
Every incumbent who has gone on to be reelected has had a double-digit lead at this point.
Following their conventions, the average elected incumbent has held a 16-point lead, while winning incumbents have led by an average of 27 points. Bush will need a very substantial bounce to reach the mark set by his successful predecessors.
Incumbents have enjoyed an average bounce in the vote margin of 8 points.
On average, incumbents' share of the two-party vote has declined by 4 points between their convention and Election Day.
President Bush has the opportunity to achieve an average, or even greater, bounce from his convention. Typically, elected incumbents go into their conventions with a 9-point lead, while incumbents who have gone on to win enter their conventions with a 21-point lead. Most current polls show the race quite close. This gives the president substantial room to bounce. By contrast, Senator Kerry entered his convention in a far stronger position than the average challenger. The average challenger goes into his convention 16 points behind, while Senator Kerry entered his convention with a 1-2 point lead. This gave Senator Kerry much less room to bounce.

However, as the data above makes clear, average is not enough for President Bush. Incumbents who went on to win reelection had an average lead of 27 points after their convention. Indeed, the average elected incumbent -- winners and losers -- had a lead of 16 points after their conventions. An average bounce would still leave Bush well below the historical mark set by other incumbents, particularly those who went on to victory.

Perhaps most important, the average elected incumbent experienced a 4-point drop in his share of the two-party vote from the post-convention polling to Election Day. Thus, to beat the odds, President Bush will need to be garnering 55% of the two-party vote after his convention. Anything less than that and the president will remain in grave political dange

[Toucano]

4. It's drudge's BS

Kerry is a hero.

[still_one]

7. screw it

The whole point is he went bush didn't

as far as in the closet drudge is concerned, wasn't he the asshole who tried to link an affair with Kerry which was as Al Frankin say A LIE!!!!!!!

[LTR]

10. Yes, the intern in Africa

Shelf life = two days.

Too ridiculous to last.

Drudge tried revisiting the story a few months later, but it died an even quicker death.

[okieinpain]

12. if kerry comes out and says oops, sorry. maybe that first one

was self-inflicted then we will be back to the affair story. man, if kerry admits to this shit now, then dean's crash will look like a blessing compared what will happen to kerry. hell he might as well get caught hitting his wife.

[Lerkfish]

23. why all the FUD? chill.

you seem intent on collapsing here.
the vietnam issue is important ONLY to repugs(who already vote bush) and veterans (who are split, and were split previous to this smear)

Bottom line, when people enter the booth, they 've going to vote their pocketbooks, and their views on the war in Iraq -- in both those categories Bush is a huge disaster, and only the most loyally blind Repugs think otherwise.

relax, drink a beer or something.

[blm]

24. What an overwrought piece of crap posting is this?

.

[merh]

31. Bob Dole's 1st purple heart was self-inflicted

he also wounded others. Gosh, will you guys stop this crap, he legitimately received 3 purple hearts. HE SERVED IN VIET NAM. The weed that would be king did not. Stop it already.

[seabeyond]

11. they always talk two purple heart incidences

i never hear about the third. oh lordy, let this not be true. and kerry hasnt disappointed me yet, when i say, .........oh lord let this not be true

not that i wont be backing him strong and hard, just wil make it a tad bit more difficult with the people around me

[ibegurpard]

14. Okay, look

If you're going to post a Drudge report like this then I think you have the responsibility to check to see if the Kerry campaign actually HAS put out such a statement. This causes nothing but anxiety and anger.

[seabeyond]

15. ya

lol lol

[truebrit71]

16. More BS from Matt Fudge

If this were true it would sink Kerry, ergo Fudge floats a trial ballon suggesting that purple heart #1 was self-inflicted, and force the Kerry camp to respond if/when it is picked up by the mainstream media.

Kerry needs to nip this in the bud, Kerry served, bush didn't. End of story.

[okieinpain]

17. damn right he needs to nip this one. and yeah I know that

drudge floats a lot of shit, that just seems to disappear never to see the light of day again. but millions check his page, and it's just sitting there, hell all of the washington people keep an eye on the focker. kerry better not let this ride.

[Connie_Corleone]

18. There was a thread on FR

saying that they heard it on FauxNews channel. Hopefully, FauxNews was just doing their usual misquoting reporting.

[Mick Knox]

19. I saw this yesterday

with the names of the 3 Kerry staff making the admission.

I can't remember where.. I'll look around. Fudge isnt breaking this.

[Sparkly]

20. I don't see how he'd "sink" from this anyway

Help me out here. How would this damage him anyway? A "self-inflicted wound" means that in the course of responding to hostile fire, your own actions (throwing a grenade or something) cause you injury. That's a valid Purple Heart and many people (Dole for instance) have them for this reason.

"Self-inflicted" does NOT mean "oops I cut myself on a beer can" or shooting one's self on purpose.

So I don't see what the big deal would be. I think O'Neill is throwing around the term "self inflicted" like it's something sinister.

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. Oh, so he was injured in EXACTLY the same way BOB DOLE was?

They can kiss my ass. Unless the repukes start whining about how Bob "The bastard" Dole got HIS first Purple Heart! They can just shut the fuck up. I'm sick of their bullshit...considering we have a damn CHICKENHAWK sitting in the WH. A whole administration FULL of CHICKENHAWK bastards! :grr:

[Lex]

28. Exactly. This happens all the time & it happened to BOB DOLE.

One of Bob Dole's Purple Hearts is based on the same thing.

Get a grip.

That football guy died from friendly fire.

People get hit with ricochet from their own fire.

PLEASE. Military people can confirm these injuries in battle happen all the time. You wouldn't have been injured but for a fire fight with the enemy in the first damn place!

[5by5]

36. 3 and out?

If this Purple Heart turns out to be from a self-inflicted or accidental wound, it's a bigger problem for Kerry than Dole or Cleland's Purple Hearts because he used his to justify leaving Vietnam under the 3-and-out rule.

The Kerry-haters already condemn him for taking advantage of 3-and-out and abandoning his brothers, etc. so if one is undeserved he's in big trouble.

It wouldn't have been a big deal if he merely did his duty, got the PH's and medals, and then quietly left for home, having enjoyed a lucky break in a nasty war. But now he's used his service to paint himself as a hero and frankly this stuff doesn't jive with most Americans' view of heroic.

It seems like he's pushed the Vietnam thing to far. He might have hoped that the issues around Bush's National Guard service would prevent his enemies from examining Kerry's service but unfortunatly the people who are going after Kerry don't care if the mud also splatters on Bush. Or maybe that it wouldn't hurt Bush as much since he's been dealing with the issue since he ran for governor or some such.

$1.7 M and 64,000 donors also takes away from the accusation that Bush's fatcat buddies are bankrolling the attack ads--it might have started that way but now it's clearly taken on a life of it's own. Besides, Kerry has a soft spot here since he's benefited from the big 527's funded by Soros et al.

This is not good for Kerry.

[Lex]

40. Settle down. Bottom line: Bush was a draft-dodging coward.

.
And so was Cheney. FIVE deferments? Damn.

The American people can do the basic math on these facts.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheRovingGourmet]

45. Please, let's discuss these things without attacking each other.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheRovingGourmet]

47. You were talking about the other poster, correct?

[markses]

49. My reference is clear

n/t

[TheRovingGourmet]

52. If you were addressing the other poster then you were

addressing your anger towards someone who may not be involved in all this mess. These topics come up all the time on talk radio and some of us want to present a different take by calling in to the show and need the information from the military people here to properly shoot this stuff down.

[geek tragedy]

57. That someone is spreading RNC talking points and bashing Kerry.

Does that person sound like a Dem or a progressive?

To me, they sound like the recording at the hotline Bob Dole called.

[TheRovingGourmet]

60. They may be, or may not be. I'm willing to give them the

benefit of the doubt. I don't think the post was made to spread RNC talking points but if it was it failed to do so. I do want to hear what other posters have to say about this, especially those with military experience.

[oasis]

44. Kerry is a war hero. This is bad for Chimpy who dodged the war.

Which one said "send me"?

[David Murphy]

53. Honestly, I think Kerry hasn't stood on his record ENOUGH....

The man earned - EARNED - his purple hearts, and his trip back home. He earned - EARNED - more medals in four months, than most veterans do during their ENTIRE tour of duty. He not only deserves to use those accomplishments to justify his Presidential bid, I think he should be talking about them more. THAT's why Dole made that comment about "quiet war heroes" - Dole KNOWS that Kerry's war record is his greatest asset in this race, and Dole wants Kerry to lose! Kerry needs to see this subterfuge for what it is, and start talking about his service to this country EVEN MORE.

The Swiffer Vets are plain wrong about Kerry's war record. They've just got a personal axe to grind because Kerry was more decorated than them, and the Repubs are using that jealously to try and keep Kerry from winning back the White House and winning back this country.

[The Hair in my Nose]

61. Welcome to DU Mr. Murphy

War record...
War record...
War record...
War record...
War record...

DAMN! I'm heading back to the basement of the Democratic Party where affirming a pro-peace stance is appreciated.

This "Quien es mas macho" BS is nauseating!

Welcome to DU, Mr. -Audie- Murphy!

[geek tragedy]

56. Nice regurgitation of RNC talking points.

Nice low post count too.

[iamjoy]

58. I Agree With 5by5

Welcome to DU & sorry your welcome isn't too warm, but maybe you sound a little too much like a troll. When you are new to the board it's hard to take a contrary viewpoint.

We all know the difference between what Kerry did and what Bush did. We also know there is a difference between what MoveOn.org and Swift Boat Veterans group does. But most people just don't get that distinction.

MoveOn focuses on issues, Swift Boat Veterans is running a smear campaign. Except, by heavily running on his war record, Kerry made it an issue. He opened it up for intense scrutiny. All sides manipulate facts in political campaigns. Now, does it really matter if Kerry wounds were self inflicted or not? Can you imagine the outrage if Clinton supporters had attacked Dole over his record in 1996? But most people don't follow it nearly that far - they just don't understand why Kerry is okay with liberal 527s and not the Swift Boat Veterans.

I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here and see how others may view it. And how do we respond to these criticism without getting nasty which does our side no good.

[geek tragedy]

59. You agree with RNC talking points?

And the smear that this "DU'er" stated about Kerry using injuries as an excuse to duck combat?

[Shopaholic]

25. It's another post for Drudge that will later be debunked

but not before it goes through the Right-Wing Echo Chamber--never to be retracted--another smear attempt by the right-wing thugs to which Drudge swears allegiance.

[louis c]

26. If a soldier or sailor

is injured because of an accidental misfire of ordinance, it is still an injury in battle while in the theater of war.

If a soldier covers his own live hand grenade with his helmet, which muffles the explosion and saves the lives of his comrades, is he not a hero, even if there is no enemy fire?

This is getting to be like "Alice in the looking glass". The man who fought in battle with valor, now is questioned 35 years later, while the coward punk who wanted others to go while he partied in Alabama is proclaimed the hero.

Nothing in national politics has ever made me angrier than this episode. I am literally sick to my stomach about the actions of my countrymen.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

27. This is old news, doesn't mean anything. Sheer drudgery.

This is known. Self-inflicted means that an action like throwing a grenade was less than successful or that one had an accident running for cover during an attack. It does not mean taking a razor blade and cutting one's self, as might be suggested by an uncritical ingestion of the phrase "self-inflicted". Only drudge and his ilk would be that uncritical a thinker.

[hexola]

29. Kerry's journal...or old book transcript...???

In Kerry's own journal...

I think the question will be...was it in Kerry's Journal or was it in the unused book transcript that was mentioned on CSPAN this morning...

It was mentioned that the authour of TOD (Brinkley) used this transcript and the journals interchangeably...

So was it in the journal...or the transcript...???

[LuminousX]

30. Kerry knows how he got his Purple Hearts,you don't forget stuff like this

This is Drudge just trying to keep the crazy conspiracy crap going.

[quinnox]

32. Still see no confirmation

Smells like more Drudge stink just like his fake intern affair story.

Please stop with the alarmist stuff already. Kerry is winning this election right now, that's the truth.

[hexola]

33. New headline at Drudge: WORLD EXCLUSIVE: KERRY PHONES SWIFT BOAT FOES

[oasis]

34. Michele Malkin alluded to this last week. Must be on the list of talking

points given to right wing pundits. Bob Dole inadvertantly revealed the existence of a secret phone number which helps GOP talking heads stay on message. Rove's message.

[seabeyond]

35. less than a week ago on hardball.....malkin started this

they start by having one put it out and then another and another. lets remember bushco's are consistant anyway. she put it out and told hardball to ask the question

we should have known the minute it came out of her mouth, this was the next place it was going, along with dole and others. geez

[Lex]

37. Intentional versus Unintentional!

Malkin wouldn't answer whether she was alleging an intentional or unintentional self-infliction.

One of Bob Dole's Purple Hearts for an unintentional self-inflicted wound.

Unintentional self-inflicted wounds account for many, many Purple Hearts.

Bullets ricochet, hand grenades bounce off things, etc.

None of it would happen unless the soldier was in a firefight for chistsakes.

[oasis]

38. she got her cue from the same secret phone number that Dole revealed by

accident yesterday. GOP talking heads are supposed to call the number before appearing on Hardball, Crossfire etc.

[seabeyond]

39. the third week in aug, go after self inflicted wound

now dont talk about how that is part of purple heart and a way dole and many have received purple heart. just say self inflicted. everyone will see the dude on mash........trying to get out in shame

malkin just didnt have the answer on matthews did he do it on purpose. she was just suppose to say self inflicted then flustered cause there was actually an accussatory question.

[oasis]

42. Kerry's biographer Doug Brinkley said this whole purple heart thing

is being generated by internet and RW talk shows.

[Cocoa]

41. did he ever say otherwise?

the "now" implies this is somehow a new position, but as far as I know the only story of that first purple heart is that Kerry got it when he tried to destroy a store of rice with a grenade.

[seabeyond]

48. ah cocoa thanks

this is the first time i heard the story. i have not heard a thing about the first purple heart. so probably in that something flew back and got him. k. he just should have just as proudly put that out as the other two and not hid it. i do see it as hiding cause have been reading for a while and have never heard about this. not that it is a deal, and he should treat this not as a deal,. as should we all

thanks for the info

[Quahog]

50. New Drudge headline: "RECORDS PROVE KERRY NEVER IN VIETNAM!!"

Why do people even go over there and look at that shit?

:eyes:

[goodhue]

51. This issue will be played out pretty soon.

No long term damage I suspect.
Many weeks to go.

[ronnykmarshall]

54. Drudge = Crap

[MattNC]

55. Has Kerry ever lied about this Purple Heart?

With the exception of a brief blurb on his site (which he probably had nothing to do with), I've never even heard him talk about this Purple Heart.

[geek tragedy]

62. Follow this link and then remember:

Fox News and Drudge LIE THROUGH THEIR FUCKING TEETH TO HELP BUSH ALL THE GODDAMN TIME.

Sheesh.

http://swiftvets.eriposte.com/kerrypurpleheart1.htm

[EST]

63. Years ago-

I raised chickens. When one chicken flew off the roost, all the others cackled and hollered and discussed it in excited tones amongst themselves. Adult human beings who are committed to telling the truth, even when it hurts, need not fret every time the wind changes direction. If the load gets heavier--push harder!