VP pick may chafe Hillary supporters

[Beacool]

By DAVID PAUL KUHN | 8/3/08

Many of the foremost activists in the women’s movement ardently believe that Hillary Rodham Clinton should be Barack Obama’s running mate — and primary wounds that are just beginning to heal may be torn back open should the Democratic nominee select someone else, as it seems very likely he will.

Geraldine Ferraro, a Clinton supporter who in 1984 became the first woman on a major party presidential ticket, said Obama should be “gracious” enough to offer Clinton the vice presidency, considering how narrow the race was.

Marcia Pappas, who heads the New York state chapter of the National Organization for Women, believes that Clinton supporters “would be outraged to know she was not given that right of first refusal.”

“She is the only woman in history who has ever garnered this much support,” Pappas continued. “She is the only woman in history who was able to raise the kind of money one would need to run a presidential campaign.”

Pamela Sumners, who directs the Missouri chapter of the abortion-rights group NARAL, added that Clinton “is now seen as the reigning dean of the women’s movement. It’s sort of Moses gets all the way to the mountain and doesn’t get to the promised land — and I think there would be people really
angry about that.”

About one in five voters who supported Clinton in the Democratic primaries tell pollsters that they are not voting for Obama, according to a mid-July Quinnipiac University national poll of likely voters — a number that’s only slightly lower than when Clinton dropped out and the conventional wisdom had it that support would coalesce around the presumptive nominee after a brief cooling-off period.

The split isn’t limited to women. “No matter who he picks,” said former New York Gov. Mario Cuomo, “the question is going to be raised: Are you telling me that this person would be a better qualified vice president than Hillary Clinton?”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12262.html

Since everybody and their brother decided today to post about Hillary as VP, I'm putting in my $0.02

:D

[FrenchieCat]

1. Geraldine Ferraro?

I thought she had moved to another country like Canada or something. :shrug:

[JoFerret]

62. We need all the democrats

we have. Stop slicing and dicing and dividing.
Geraldine Ferraro was treated very poorly by many and deserved better. Don't join in.

[jakem]

69. Leave that bitter racist woman alone!

[LowerManhattanite]

72. L!O!L! n/t

[SuperTrouper]

111. LOL!!!!

[JoFerret]

152. Geraldine Ferraro

is not a racist any more than all of us are- including you. (Which is quite a bit.)

[jakem]

174. with all DUE respect for Ms Ferraros career-

she is more racist than i am.

and for you to dust off the old 'we are all racist' bit is pandering to a lowest denominator.

[JoFerret]

188. So you are racist then...

Sorry friend......you I don't know. Ferraro has a long record.

[jakem]

193. you and McCain can keep your 'friend' labels-

you i dont care to know.

[JoFerret]

200. Keep on chewing on the rhubarb

But don't eat the leaves - they are poisonous.

[MattBaggins]

214. Yeah chew the leaves too

Let me know how close to the ten pounds or so of leaves you would need to consume. You would start vomiting it back up long before you ever got near an LD50.

[JoFerret]

221. What is an LD50?

Is it some kind of new purgative for cleansing the democratic party of impurities?

[MattBaggins]

226. LD50

Lethal Dose 50%

[JoFerret]

227. Try the plain rhubarb

with or without custard.
Much pleasanter.

[Jazzgirl]

186. Oh yes she is a racist!

Damn sure is!

[JoFerret]

189. Nah

she's not. Ferraro is not the "enemy".

[Jakes Progress]

210. But, but, (quivering lip) the media

told us she was. You mean we all fell for media crap? We can't be concerned about forty years of voting and marching and speaking. We gotta go with what we just heard on HuffPo. Knowing history and thinking are just too hard. It's easier just to call her a racist because all the cool people are doing it.

[JoFerret]

228. You are so right. The record means nothing

We must step back in line and follow the script.
A lifetime of action must be destroyed in a moment. It means nothing.
Votes- schmotes.
Independent thinking is out. There must be no deviation.
And people who speak their truth must be ostracized immediately.
We must activate the media and pile on. It is so exciting to call democrats racists. democrats are the real enemy. The enemy is within us. We must punish and expel and exterminate our inner enemies.

[Kittycat]

76. Geraldine was treated poorly??? Give me a f'n break

You don't have to be AA to be offended by the crap that came spewing out of that racist mouth of hers. As a white woman, I wanted to hide under the desk in shame every time she opened her mouth.

[JoFerret]

153. You do have to be a fair minded person

male female/ any race - to understand that she was vilified.

[Kittycat]

173. No. She didn't know when to stop.

She kept opening her mouth and sticking her racist foot a bit deeper down her throat each time.

[JoFerret]

187. Not knowing when to stop

seems to be a common ailment.

(We need all the votes for Obama we can get.)

[Imagevision]

176. Geraldine obviously has more balls than brains...

[femrap]

198. you appear to be

a swine that whines. oink

[TheWraith]

81. No, she deserved everything she got. nt

[JoFerret]

154. Nobody deserves that.

I hope it never happens to you.

[LowerManhattanite]

190. Just like Lieberman.

People cross a certain threshold in life and they sometimes become cranky, bitter, self-centered idiots.

GOP'ers do it early in life :) —our Dems do it sometimes late in life when they see the world passing them by.

Ferraro, who I voted for here in New York for Congress and for Vice-President has gone to a sad and angry place with her near-lunatic squalling and railing against Obama on matters racial.

She called down the thunder, only to realize that that shit really burns.

Tough.

[catgirl]

133. Just the mention of her name makes me cringe

she "deserved better"- Ha!

[JoFerret]

197. Poor you

...the suffering...the horror...

[catgirl]

207. No, poor you

Too much time on your hands? Or just no friends? I wonder why.

[JoFerret]

222. Sweetie. We need to win in November

This means electing Obama with as many votes as we can muster.

[catgirl]

223. Agreed

and working together will make that happen. No need
to be sarcastic.

[JoFerret]

230. It's hard not to be

sarcastic when posters feel free to slam good democrats.

But I will make an effort.

[catgirl]

235. We can't control freeps (they're wasting their time anyway)

let's just make it happen. Dems will all come together and we'll be stonger than ever :)...

[Heather MC]

155. That dried up ole wench was over on Faux news this Morning

Spewing her advice on who McCain should choose as VP
Saying if he picked a woman that would go a long way to getting the Hillary supporters on His side.
She went so far as to Offer up the perfect woman for the Job!

Screw that ole wench she is traitor to the party and doesn't deserve any respect

[chimpymustgo]

180. "Dried up ole wench"??? I think you've peeped your cards. Misogyny much?

It's just sick they way the Clintons and their supporters were vilified.

[Heather MC]

183. What's really sick is how she and here supporters and still acting like

the Clinton's were part of their own personal party
A primary fight fine, but her supporters and her have yet to rally behind Obama convincingly
and I am referring to her Direct supporters not the supporters here on DU, but the ones who get Camera time.

[JoFerret]

191. Your ageism

is disgusting.

Discrimination is foul.
Please stop.

[Danger Mouse]

192. She didn't deserve better. She's helping the Republicans right now.

[quantass]

132. Don't insult us Canadians...She's all yours...we won't take that thing

:rofl:

[Egnever]

2. Which is why it wont be anounced till the convention

You folks will be up in arms for days over it.

And it wont be Hillary, Cause the big dog cant be vetted.

[DesertFlower]

3. i agree. nt

[Metric System]

4. How condescending. But thank you for sparing us. We tend to let our emotions cloud our judment.

[Egnever]

5. You're welcome

did you think I was here to spare your feelings? It is what it is.

[Skittles]

10. you are what you are n/t

[Lucky 13]

104. Glad to finally see some recognition of that...

This isn't about emotions or who people feel should get the nod. It's Barack's decision and his alone. He needs to pick someone who will work with him best... and logic says that that isn't Hillary.

Logic over emotion... always a good idea.

[ronnykmarshall]

156. Looks like we're getting pushed to the luggage car

of the "Unity Train".

[Egnever]

159. If you cant get on board then yup be prepared to get pushed off

[ronnykmarshall]

161. Oooooo is that a threat?

Please provide me the requirements for being "on board".

[asthmaticeog]

163. Important part of party unity: not being a jerk.

Just something to think about.

[HEyHEY]

168. Sounds like "With us or against us" to me

[JVS]

201. Egnever is not being a jerk. He's just refusing to kowtow to people who seem unable to deal...

with the current situation. There is a very good chance that Hillary won't be the VP candidate and I see no reason that people who constantly refer to themselves as somehow outside of the democratic camp in the upcoming general election shouldn't be considered the ones who are the impediment to unity. Ultimately it's up to them to accept the candidate.

[asthmaticeog]

202. Yeah, JVS, but

what did Ronny say about being "outside the democratic camp?" I didn't see anything like that. As vocal a Clinton supporter as he's been, I've never once seen him adopt a PUMA attitude (an attitude that I suspect is largely mythical anyway, a RW fantasy that failed to gain enough of a toehold to be even a little destructive). But Egnever extended his (RKM's) metaphor about Clinton supporters being herded into the luggage compartment (dubious, IMO, but if that's how he feels, that's how he feels, and it isn't my place nor is it the purpose of this discussion to invalidate that) to being pushed off of a fuckin' train. That's not just exclusionary, it's violently and permanently so. To me, that's being a jerk. :shrug:

[JVS]

205. The baggage car metaphor is already the indicator of feeling oneself to be an outsider

Notice that I am not saying that it indicates opposition to the party or the candidate, but it does convey a feeling of being excluded along with a certain resentment and frankly is not constructive. This metaphor was used to descrive Egnever's conduct when he pointed out (very correctly) that if HRC is not chosen for VP there will be a set of people complaining vociferously about it. Egnever merely rephrases the metaphor because he seems to be of the view (a justifiable one in my opinion) that those who complain of their mistreatement within the train are sometimes not fully on board anyway. There is only so much and a certain level of complaining that people will hear before they start drawing conclusions from it.

[asthmaticeog]

208. It's a BIG stretch

from one indicating that he feels alienated to claiming that he's alienating himself anyway and so deserves to be thrown off the figurative train. And with rhetoric like that, is it any wonder people feel alienated?

[JVS]

209. But the baggage car metaphor does not merely indicate feelings of alienation.

It accuses others of treating him poorly. It is a very natural response to deal with such an accusation by returning the hostility.

On edit: it's very much like when someone threatens to leave a social gathering and ends up getting kicked out.

[asthmaticeog]

211. Who threatened to leave?

JVS, you're just wrong on this. When people post flamebait OPs with language aimed at cheesing off the people who were in Hillary Clinton's primaries support base, it's disingenuous as all fuck to then turn around and claim that Clinton's erstwhile supporters have no right to feel alienated by such shit.

[JVS]

212. Check the OP. It was posted by one of the biggest Hillary supporters on the board.

Do you think it was written to cheese off Hillary supporters?

[asthmaticeog]

220. I'm sorry, I was in error.

I meant the first post of this subthread, but I mistakenly said the OP of the entire discussion. Sorry for the confusion.

[ronnykmarshall]

215. What really gets me is that people that every word so seriously.

I make one little comment and the purity police is out in full force digging through my trash cans monitoring my phone calls and e-mails.

Could this place get MORE paranoid?

[JVS]

216. See, it's just those kinds of cracks about purity police and paranoia that look suspicious.

On edit: paradoxical in a strange way, isn't it. But when you call people paranoid purity police, they get the feeling that you bear them a grudge.

[ronnykmarshall]

218. This is like fishing in a barrel.

[HEyHEY]

165. Do you know what a disease to mankind that kind of thinking is?

[Beacool]

6. Who's "you folks"?

If you mean Hilary's supporters, yeah, they'll have plenty to say about it.

[Egnever]

8. They are the ones

For a minute there I thought you were having reading trouble.

It will all be over soon though then maybe finally you can put all this BS to rest.

[cboy4]

12. Yea and maybe you will finally get it that a practically

equal number of people voted for Hillary.

You hardly have a mandate, so try not acting so superior Egnever.

[Egnever]

17. Doesnt matter

She lost she doesn't have any say so in the decision any more and the majority of her primary supporters are fully on board with Obama. Obama will pick who he wants to pick and it wont be Hillary. Again because the big dog cant be vetted.

Sorry you don't like it.

[cboy4]

24. Uh, you don't know that a majority of Hillary's primary

supporters are "fully" on board with Obama.

I know that's what you want to think.

And I know that's what you hope.

I think a majority of Hillary supporters plan on voting for him, but that's a far, far cry from being fully on board.

And you're not a mind reader, so you have know way of determining who's truly "fully" on board.

And trust me, the number will drop if he doesn't offer her the spot.

[Egnever]

30. Sure I do

Look at the polls in the states she won in a landslide. Obama picked up all that support.

Heres the thing that you hope isnt true. Hilarry's supporters were mostly DEMs they support the DEM nominee and no way in hell are they voting for a republican.

Just like Bidens supporters and Edwards and Kucinich and Dodd and Richardson....

No matter how much I insult you they are going Dem in November.

[cboy4]

38. Sure you don't

You have no idea who is "fully" on board.

There's a difference between supporting Obama, as in planning to vote for him, and being fully on board as in he's such a great choice.

I don't trust him, but he gets my vote because I want a Democrat deciding the Supreme Court.

But I am definitely not "fully" on board.

And again, you are incapable of reading the minds of others.

Try not to fall off of your high horse Egnever.

[Egnever]

45. So what you are saying is

Obama better pick Hillary cause you wont like it if he doesnt and you will vote for him anyway. Right?

That is fully on board. You may be not happy with obama but you are like the majority of the rest of the Hill supporters out there that recognize the implications of the alternative.

I will get off the horse when people stop trying to shove Hillary down my throat with threats. Till that time ill sleep in my saddle.

Like I said earlier in this thread this will be a non issue soon. Get ready to be disappointed though cause Hillary wont be VP Bill cant be Vetted. You know it too in your heart of hearts. Why keep fighting about it?

[dsc]

105. No it isn't

there is giving money and time. Apparently that poster is willing to do neither. I know my willingness to do either is dependent upon him avoiding certain choices. I won't give money or time to a ticket with Sam Nunn to name one example.

[ronnykmarshall]

167. Oh please, threats?

This is coming from the "be prepared to be pushed off" author.

[dionysus]

128. ....

:spray:

:thumbsup:

[GoesTo11]

79. If he doesn't offer her the spot

then more Hillary supporters will vote for the man who thought that "how are we going to beat the b*tch" was a good question about Hillary, and who cheated on and dumped his first wife when she wasn't pretty enough for him, and then called the pretty wife a **** and cheated on her, and who jokes about dykes, and who opposes any legislation that benefits women.

That'll show Obama for not offering Hillary the slot!


I would love to see a Gallup poll:

Who do you support: McCain who calls his wife a ****, or Obama?

Do you think McCain would still get 35% of women? I think it would drop to at least 34%. (Of women I know, it would drop to 0%).

[TheWraith]

85. Yes, actually we do know that. It's only a fringe who refuse to accept the will of the voters. nt

[highplainsdem]

101. I agree. I suspect a lot of Dems currently telling pollsters they'll vote for Obama are expecting

him to realize he needs HRC on the ticket, since she came so close to winning the nomination and widely-publicized polls have shown that a majority of Democrats want her to be his VP. They know that Obama has to be aware of what they want.

And if he chooses someone else besides HRC, it will seem to many Democrats that he's turned his back on Hillary AND her supporters and doesn't care about them.

That is going to cost him Democratic support he can't afford to lose. Not with polls showing McCain picking up more and more of the independent vote anyway.

[dionysus]

129. you can't hold the party hostage with bullshit threats... as much as you would like it to be so...

:eyes:

[paulk]

224. what if they're not "bullshit threats"?

It seems to me that they're very real.

And what do you think "the party" is? Some sort of monolithic hive beast?

The leader of the party says "Jump!" and the rest of the party says, "How high?"... ?

Half "the party" (or more than half, by some counts) voted for Hillary Clinton. These people are also "the party".

You don't get to toss them off by simply labeling their concerns as "bullshit threats".

[catgirl]

135. Where do you get your stats?

A majority of voters want Hillary as V.P.? Even some of her surrogates are backing
other candidates for V.P. Obama will pick the best person for the job, and he'll
have the backing of most dems, the majority of independents, plus many repubs.

Hillary will do fine in either the Senate, or with some other role in the administration.

[SuperTrouper]

130. I tend to agree

I think that what we have seen so far from Obama's campaign is a disconnect with what needs to get done to win the General election. This is a different electorate compared to the one in the Primaries and Obama needs to pivot and not allow McCain to emasculate him. Hillary believe it or not will add cojones to the Obama GE Campaign and will unify the Party. Without her supporters I am afraid that there is a decent chance of President McCain come January 20, 2009

[gal]

136. His numbers will drop if he DOES offer it to her as well..

so which is the worst of two evils? Stay true to your campaign and continue to run on what you based your campaign on or show the world that you didn't mean a thing you said and you are like any other politic an. If he does that...welcome in John McCain.

[paulk]

225. except that recent polling shows the exact opposite

"In late June, polls conducted by The Wall Street Journal/NBC and Fox/Opinion Dynamics -- using entirely different samples -- both showed Sen. Clinton giving Sen. Obama a +3% bump, pushing him over 51% for the first time, when the two of them were paired against Sen. McCain and Gov. Romney.

Most recently, in nationwide polling on July 22-23, a Fox/Opinion Dynamics poll showed a more dramatic bump of +8% with Sen. Clinton as Sen. Obama's vice presidential running mate. In a head-on match, it was Sen. Obama 41% to Sen. McCain's 40% (this was before the intense media coverage of his European trip). But with exactly the same sample, when all voters were presented with the choice of an Obama-Clinton ticket vs. McCain-Romney, the results were Obama-Clinton, 48% (+7%), and McCain-Romney 39% (-1%)"

[Starbucks Anarchist]

232. A vote is a vote.

It doesn't matter if the ballot is marked with enthusiasm or disgust -- it all counts the same.

[Beacool]

14. No, it will be over only after the election,

and then we'll be able to analyze whether her supporters "got over it".

[Egnever]

19. Nope after the convention there will be a VP

anyone still pining for hillary after that will either vote for their own countries destruction or get on board with obama. If the prerequisite for you getting on board with obama is Hillary as VP then you arent getting on board ever.

Bill cant be vetted Hillary wont be VP.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

25. You seem kinda hopeful that they won't. nt

[Flying Dream Blues]

126. Exactly. nt

[MonkeyFunk]

166. it's your BS that needs to be put to rest

it's stupid and tiresome.

[MoonRiver]

92. .....

yep :D

[JoFerret]

65. "You folks"

are unbelievable.

Give it a rest.

[polmaven]

80. "You folks"??

Grow the hell up!

I will put forth that the vast majority of Democrats (yes, those of us that supported Senator Clinton are Democrats, whether you like it or not) that post on this board will accept whoever is our nominee's choice for president, and will not be "up in arms for days".

That is, apparently, UNLESS the nominee IS Senator Clinton.

[Egnever]

144. then you arent one of the folks

and that is my main point in this thread that dems are onboard. It's the folks still griping and trying to cause trouble I am addressing.

[polmaven]

151. And are you including

in the definition of "the folks still griping and trying to cause trouble" those who are constantly denigrating President and Senator Clinton? How about those who seem to be OK with "folks" who will not vote for Senator Obama if Senator Clinton is on the ticket? Or is it just those who still have respect for the Clintons who are the troublemakers?

[Egnever]

160. Not really no

Cause those people for the most part are irrelevant. Clinton Wont be on the ticket (big dog cant/wont be vetted) So none of the3 people you mention really has any bearing on this conversation.

[polmaven]

162. If she "won't be on the ticket"

then how can your definition of "you folks" be up in arms in the first place? It seems to me that it is those who are supporting her as vp who have no bearing on this conversation in this context.

[highplainsdem]

94. If it's announced at the convention and the choice ISN'T Hillary, the story coming out of the

convention will be how unhappy her supporters are, and how divided the Democratic Party is. And there won't be the usual post-convention bounce.

If Obama is going to choose anyone other than HRC, he needs to do it as soon as possible unless he wants the most memorable visuals from the convention to be legions of disapponted Clinton supporters, looking glum about the VP choice. He'll wreck the convention as a days-long ad for the Democrats if he does anything as stupid as announcing a pick other than Clinton then.

[Egnever]

146. I dissagree

Number one there will be very few Clinton supporters inside the convention that think he is going to make her VP. Number two doing it before hand gives all of the dead enders time to organize more mischief.

The majority of people at that convention will be DEMS dedicated tending the repuke rule of our country.

While there are still quite a few people clinging to their last hope for Hillary on the presidential ticket. It wont be anywhere close to legions of them at the convention. The whole world knows Hillary wont be on the ticket except the last vestiges still in denial.

Bill cant or wont be vetted because of that Hillary wont be getting anywhere near the ticket.

[bunkerbuster1]

95. Yeah, at the end of the day, it's Bill that made Hillary a non-starter

As Thom Hartmann put it last week, you don't make the kind of money Bill's made without some of it being dirty.

Which is a shame, really, because Hillary would've been a fine VP (or President, for that matter.) Although I don't want us pulling any Senators out of active duty to become VP on principle.

[emilyg]

131. "You folks'

I thought we were all Democrats.

[Egnever]

147. yup you're one of them

I see you clearly.

[emilyg]

149. Since you see things clearly

may I have the lottery numbers for tonight?

[Egnever]

150. I didnt say things I said you

A blind man could see what you are up to.

[JoFerret]

194. You see very little

That much is clear.

But - we need you vote too.

[ronnykmarshall]

157. Not on DU.

Hillary supporters will forever be branded with the "Scarlett H" or refereed to as "those people".

[JeanGrey]

178. Or neutered.

[Karen O]

7. this says it all,

The split isn’t limited to women. “No matter who he picks,” said former New York Gov. Mario Cuomo, “the question is going to be raised: Are you telling me that this person would be a better qualified vice president than Hillary Clinton?”

Bingo, Mario.

That said, I still believe she's over qualified for the position and would rather her not be Barack's VP.

[Beacool]

11. Of course she's overqualified.

Frankly, by now I'm sick of the whole discussion. I think that the Obama campaign and the party leadership are cutting their collective noses to spite themselves. Either that or they are too blind to see the schism that still exists between the two factions. I just found this article on Politico and thought it was quite apropos due to the various threads we had today on this topic.

The party leadership and Obama's campaign still don't get it. No matter how many times they condescendingly tell her supporters to "get over it", many will continue to balk at the directive.

[writes3000]

16. You choose to see what you want to see. You choose to believe what you want to believe.

And it is VERY clear that some people will never be swayed, reassured, convinced, consoled or happy.

For those who have spent the last six weeks screaming that Hillary be made the nominee instead of Barack, they will have to accept the fact that it will not happen.

They may not get over it. But again, for people who only want to see things their way, their pov is set in stone.

If Hillary is named as VP, I predict there will be Republican moles quickly dispatched to tell her supporters that they shouldn't support the ticket because it's an insult to Hillary.

And I predict quite a few will lap that Republican voodoo up like warm milk.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

22. Already happened. Check out the PUMA sites. nt

[writes3000]

32. I avoid HATE sites. And that's what those are. n/t

[polmaven]

82. Dupe - delete

[polmaven]

86. It seems to me

there is a good deal of PUMA going on right here. And it isn't necessarily the Clinton supporters who are engaging in it.

[Karen O]

37. Yeah, cuz like,

duh, those gurl's will do what they're told. Uh,,,huuuhhh....

[writes3000]

42. That's interesting. I never said Hillary's supporters were only women. You just did.

And you suggested that they were stupid. I never said that.

I did suggest that some Clinton supporters would flock towards the slick Republican call to protest an Obama/Clinton ticket. I don't think "stupidity" is what would drive these people - even though many of them would be voting against their own self-interests.

Your snide, simplistic responses are another reminder why I should/will bring this sideshow to a close.

[Karen O]

44. And your simplistic, biased and rude

remarks are ok?

Get over yourself.

[LowerManhattanite]

77. Crafty exposure of yet another “concerned”, familiar with all things DU,

“Hello, I must be going!” shit-stirrer there. :)

Well done.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Egnever]

21. You clearly will balk at that directive

Wont you?

[NashVegas]

59. Politico Is One of the Chief Outlets Driving the Wedge, IMO

They aren't just reporting on it.

[TheWraith]

87. Actually, you and your ilk are the only ones who have a problem with it.

Clinton has acknowledged that she lost and gotten on board, so have the vast mast majority of her supporters. The number of actual votes that would be affected by a Clinton VP pick would mostly be on the negative side. Please realize that you don't control some massive movement, and you don't get to dictate how to "heal the schism" that your side caused.

[polmaven]

107. Oh, where to start!

First - Just what is her "ilk"? Would that be the type, maybe, who would support the likes of Hillary Clinton in the first place?

Second - What would be the "ilk" of the people who would not vote for the Democratic nominee if Senator Clinton is the nominee? And why do we see very little negative posting about that?

And third - Are you really so sure that it was our "side" that caused the schism? If so, then why would it be true that the vast majority of Clinton Supporters are on board, but her name on the ballot would cause Obama supporters to not vote for him? Looks to me as if it is THAT "ilk" which caused the schism! Unless, of course, you think that supporting anyone who had the temerity to run against him in the first place was enough to cause the schism.

[highplainsdem]

106. I agree. I'm worried Obama will choose someone else to spite the Clintons, and cost us an election

we should have won and would win easily with a unity ticket and a united party.

Clinton had the sense to recognize a unity ticket was necessary.

I expect Obama to be just as sensible. If he isn't, it's a huge failing -- turning his back on the ONLY running mate who can unite the party -- and he will be blamed if he doesn't win in November.

The polls are too damn close for him to pretend that he coasted to an easy victory over his strongest rival and doesn't need ALL the help she and her supporters can give. If he and his supporters try living in that fantasy land, we'll lose to McCain.

I don't expect many of his DU supporters who live in this echo chamber to understand that. They not only don't seem aware that Republicans and independents don't see McCain as McSame -- never mind all those polls showing that McCain's favorability rating is twice as high as W's -- but they were so successful in driving most Clinton supporters out of DU that they aren't aware of the full range of opinions in the Democratic Party, either, and how much support Clinton has.

[Whisp]

124. hillary and bill as vp would be an anchor for Obama

they have proven themselves to be untrustworthy and don't blush too much when caught in huge fabrications (Tuzla, wow that one is a gem) - how could a president be comfortable having to look behind his back all the time? He needs someone he can trust.

whatever positive Hillary may have had to contribute as vp, she burnt up in the poor campaign she ran - she didn't have to go repug tactics, but she did.

but what will be somewhat of a relief to Obama in not being able to choose Hillary, is Bill's dealings and speeches and library donations etc., - he can't pass that.

so when Hillary gets passed over, if I were a PUMA or supporter, I wouldn't want too much attention paid to What exactly Bill failed on to get his wife the position. I think that will be a gossip toner downer and griping may be discouraged because of this.

Do you REALLY want to know how Bill failed the test? The details, the who's who and money exchanging?
Of course this can't go public because Obama doesn't work in the mud (like some do), but the word may be put out from top H supporters to the fold - don't pursue this please.

[LowerManhattanite]

184. Comedy Gold. Pure Kaufmanian Comedy Gold. Thank You! n/t

[karynnj]

63. Actually the VP is RARELY the best qualified person

There are other considerations - mostly things that create synergy with the Presidential candidate and who has little baggage or tendency to hurt the candidate. Look at 2004, was a person in his first term with few accomplishments really the best qualified in the country. He was chosen because he was thought to be able to win rural voters.

No matter how well HRC fits the first half, she fails the second - she has a huge amount of baggage.

[cboy4]

9. I agree!!

:thumbsup:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

13. I didn't know that the women's movement had a dean.

That's a new one on me. :shrug:

[Beacool]

15. Well, now you know.

:eyes:

[mrreowwr_kittty]

20. No successful movement has ever been about one person.

Something for you to think on, my dear.

[Metric System]

23. Dear? Ugh. What is with the condescion around here?!?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

27. Uh, did you see that I responded to a post that used the eyeroll smiley at me?

Condescension my ass. Get over yourself. It's an internet discussion board, ferfuckssake, not a tea party.

[Metric System]

33. And here I am all dressed up all fancy-like for nothing. I even invited Hillary over to serve the

tea since I heard from someone that she had a lot of experience with that sort of thing. Dammit, and I was so looking forward to it. Hillary was supposed to discuss china patterns with me too.

[writes3000]

29. Insincerity begats insincerity.

I see lots of people pretending to be nice and civil here but the real intent is becoming undeniably obvious.

[Karen O]

35. Yeah, but,

perhaps it will help in some circumstances.

Sure, there are some who will never change their stripes, and yeah, it's not worth even attempting,

but others, hey, are we not mature enough to agree, or disagree, or agree/disagree (:)) to debate?

[Beacool]

39. It must be the equivalent of "sweetie".

:eyes:

[LowerManhattanite]

97. Which reminds me of a creepy hate site called “Not Your Sweetie”...

...scary bunch over there!

[Karen O]

26. This is absolutely not about "one" person

Obviously. Just sayin', dear.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

28. Then why does it so often seem like it is?

Just sayin.

[Karen O]

31. Not sure why you dismiss the half

of the democratic party who did not vote for Barack Obama.

Not sure why you dismiss their concerns about his inexperience.

Not sure why you question those who defend the Clinton to the continued attacks.

I'm just not sure what you expect here.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Karen O]

43. Here's a very rude wake up call to you

I'm not a PUMA.

I'm an American voter who is sick and tired of the crap people like you spew.

[Egnever]

46. Better get some good meds then cause this place is gonna drive you bat shit crazy!

[Karen O]

49. Yeah, I can see how that could happen

:) No worries though, I'm sure I can handle it. ;)

[quickesst]

57. What one needs to understand.....

is that this, "Not sure why you dismiss their concerns about his inexperience."

is what many Obama supporters construe as "bashing"(note the childish response that you are PUMA) and is equivolent to labeling Clinton a "fucking whore", or a "bitch", which seems to be the most popular of terms. Of course, any truly reasonable person understands that if Obama had received anything akin to the bashing Clinton recieved(s), the individual would have been banned immediately, for obvious reasons. The "obvious" reasons on the other side of the coin seem to be absent, and in many instances, lauded, repeated, and defended. That goes for DU itself, which allowed the lowbrow, hateful, and ignorant attacks to continue on a daily basis. Clinton haters know the weapon they have is, in progressive circles, formidable, and have no qualms in using it. I believe the fight for equality and justice is an honorable one, worth fighting to the last breath for. I am just not prepared to sacrifice the gains of an entire gender to accomplish it. This is not a game of "Whack-a-Mole", where you achieve one goal only to create another obstacle or setback. Thanks.
quickesst

[Flying Dream Blues]

134. Sorry, I was here and neutral and the majority of the low-road bashing was done

by the Hillary camp. I never saw Hillary referred to as a "fu***** whore" on this site. As far as campaigns go, I was an Edwards supporter so I was watching everyone else to see who I would support. I was finally convinced to support Obama, and a huge factor was in how she ran a negative campaign while Obama stayed overwhelmingly positive. As far as the media goes, I think Obama had AT LEAST as much to overcome as Hillary. I continue to be completely mystified how the Clinton supporters believe so whole-heartedly that she was mistreated either on DU (overall) or in the media. It was hers to lose and she, not the media or Barack Obama, lost it.

[cali]

47. keep it up. make it even more obvious you're here to stir shit and bash

the dem nominee. I'm not sure what you expect here.

[Karen O]

48. Are you referencing me?

You joined the converstation late and I'm not sure who the heck you are even adressing.

If it's me, please rephrase and I'll address it.

[cali]

51. I was addressing you, not "referenc ing" you.

And yes, you look like someone who's popped onto the scene to stir shit and bash the dem nominee.

[Arnold Judas Rimmer]

84. Why does it matter who did or did not vote for him in the primaries?

When you start off with 8 candidates in a primary, 7 of them are going to lose. Doesn't it happen that way in every election year?

[DevonRex]

116. Exactly. The lotto numbers I played for Saturday don't work on

Wednesday, either. It's over.

[DevonRex]

114. I'd say that at least 90% of that half are now Obama supporters.

There ARE no 18 million votes for Hillary out there anymore. That race is over.

And what should concern you is McCain's experience. McCain is wrong on every issue. He voted with GWB 95% of the time. If that concern doesn't outweigh any reservations you have about Obama, then there's just no reasoning with you.

[anonymous171]

34. Don't care who his VP is, personally.

I will vote for him regardless of his VP choice, unless he picks someone truly atrocious like Lieberman or something.

[Beacool]

41. Or Nunn, or Hagel or even Kaine. n/t

[NorthCarolina]

53. Or Bayh, he also fits the definition of "atrocious"

in my book, being an anti-gay bigot and all.

[Phoonzang]

55. I'm curious, how is he an anti-gay bigot

He was given an 89% by the Human Rights Campaign. That was in 2006. Did he do something since then?

[NorthCarolina]

61. Here's a copy of a letter from Bayh to a constituent that backs my statement

Dear xxx xxxx :

Thank you for contacting me regarding the Marriage Protection Amendment to the United States Constitution. I appreciate your thoughts and concerns. Having been happily married for more than twenty years, this issue is important to me.

I do not support same sex marriage. I believe marriage should be between one man and one woman. That is currently the law in Indiana and is currently the law nationally. I support the Defense of Marriage Act that prohibits federal recognition of same sex marriage and prevents Indiana from being forced to recognize same sex marriages performed in other states.

If you have been told that a judge has struck down Indiana 's law or our nation's law prohibiting same sex marriage, that is simply not true. These laws may never be invalidated. In fact, Indiana 's law prohibiting same sex marriage was recently upheld by our Court of Appeals.

The Constitution should not be amended unless absolutely necessary and should not be amended to deal with situations that are hypothetical and may not come to pass. In a bipartisan vote on June 7, 2006, the Senate agreed and decided not to consider the Constitutional amendment this year because it is premature. I supported that decision.

In the event that the courts do invalidate our state or national laws prohibiting same sex marriage, then a Constitutional amendment should be considered.

Again, thank you for contacting me. I hope the information I have provided is helpful. My website, http://bayh.senate.gov , can provide additional details about legislation and state projects, and you can also sign up to receive my monthly e-newsletter, The Bayh Bulletin , by clicking on the link at the top of my homepage. I value your input and hope you will continue to keep me informed of the issues important to you.


Office of Senator Evan Bayh
[phone]
Russell 463
Washington, D.C. 20510

http://advanceindiana.blogspot.com/2006/06/bils-quest-for-straight-talk-from-bayh.html
______________________________________________________________

I find the first sentence particularly repugnant "Having been happily married for more than 20 years". How he balances that statement with working to keep other American citizens from ever having access to that same happiness is beyond my scope of reasoning.

[Phoonzang]

100. That is indeed disturbing and seems to rub marriage

in the faces of those who aren't allowed it. But...now I don't want to be seen as defending him...but he would he be Senator in Indiana long if he supported gay marriage?

[NorthCarolina]

138. Bigotry is wrong even if it's for political gain

eom

[Awsi Dooger]

40. Ridiculously overblown

Some people are determined to be chafed.

Look, I preferred Hillary over Obama. If there were a choice of backtracking and doing the primaries over again to secure a different result, I'd sign up in a microsecond. But when Obama identifies his VP, the one variable I won't give a damn about is a comparison to Hillary.

The Kentucky Derby result determines the Preakness field. Primaries spit out the general election realities. When you pick a VP the focus is who it is, not who it isn't.

[davidpdx]

50. I think no matter what, some who were originally Clinton supporter

are going to be pissed when she isn't picked as a VP. Honestly, I don't think you are going to see a woman picked for VP as it would only enrage Clinton supporters more (by the way I've been saying this for a couple of months now).

As to first right of refusal, it simply doesn't work that way. It is solely at the discretion of the nominee.

[elkston]

52. Everyone knows where you stand, Beacool. No need to keep disrupting. n/t

[Beacool]

58. Errrr............you responded to a different poster.

LOL!!

[dionysus]

66. wow, that sure is a knee slapper...

i know you think this thread is a clever attempt at disruption, but really, it is pathetic...

aren't you needed at capshill?

:eyes:

[polmaven]

120. But yeah,

Beacool...Stop all this disrupting stuff...You know that any thread saying anything at all positive but that there Hillary female is just disruptve.....This is a place...GD:Presidental...where only HillHaters are allowed to post. It's in the rules, isn't it??????

[Beacool]

141. Yeah, my mistake.

No one may cast any doubts or question in any way our nominee, but trashing the Clintons is still permitted.

:crazy:

[polmaven]

108. And don't you think

that, as stated by another poster earlier, if he DOES pick her as his VP some of HIS original supporters are going to be pissed? It works both ways. We are Democrats. We will NEVER march in lockstep.

[Alter Ego]

54. Somehow I won't shed a tear if Ferraro gets her undies in a bunch

over Obama's VP pick.

[dionysus]

56. hmm, quoting Geraldine Ferraro...check.... and Marcia Pappas... check...

yup, flamebait...

[bunnies]

60. Yep. You said it.

Why anyone would give a shit was those two people think is absolutely beyond me.

[workinclasszero]

64. I don't give a flyin F**K what that racist ass Geraldine Ferraro

thinks about anything!

F her and the horse she rode in on! All she and NOW and NARAL are doing is helping to elect McCain. F all of them!

Their all a bunch of closet fuckin republicans if they don't support Obama 1000 percent!

[LowerManhattanite]

67. Um...

Ferraro crossed the Lieberman line with her antics this campaign season.

Someone that batshit hateful and personal agenda-driven is NOT someone to be courted, coddled or considered credible at this point.

She trashed her legacy in many Dems eyes and her so-called “feelings” mean that much less because of it.

Zell. Holy Joe. Gerry. A sad sandwich of backstabbery. Fuck 'em all.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LowerManhattanite]

70. Yeah, well...that's obvious...

...but I take that person as seriously as I take Ferraro at this point—which is with the same level of credence I'd put in the “science” and reality of a joined-in-progress episode of “Small Wonder”. :)

[janx]

71. NARAL endorsed Obama. n/t

[Kajsa]

75. Yep, they sure did.

http://www.naral.org/elections/election-pr/pr_05042008_obamaendorsement.html

[Barrymores Ghost]

73. #1. It ain't gonna happen.

#2. Hillary "Supporters" who cast protest votes for McSame or stay at home on Election Day will have nothing to take credit for when Obama wins, and no one to blame but themselves if, by some stretch of the imagination, he were to lose.

#3. Neither Hillary, nor Bill, nor the entirety of their fan base are owed a single goddamned thing.

The primaries are OVER.

She LOST.

Obama is the nominee and he has right to pick whomever the hell he wants to pick as his running mate, with nothing more to consider than finding someone whom he thinks will a) add to the ticket, b) someone with whom he can work and c) someone whom he can trust to be VICE President and not try to upstage him or run a shadow administration behind his back.

If Obama's team decides that she fits the bill, so be it. If he opts for another, then there's a reason, and it's his choice to make. If there are still "Hillary Supporters" out there who would vote against their own self-interests out of spite, then either they are missing an essential brain cell or two, or they were never really Democrats and Progressives to start with.

[saltpoint]

74. Many a young woman's foot was set forth for the Prince to try on the

glass slipper, but it only fit one.

Said foot might be Hillary Clinton's, or not.

It might be a male foot.

The gender of the foot isn't the point.

The fit is the point.

[tuesdaymorning]

78. Even if I didn't want Hillary, it would chafe me.

Evan Bayh? Tim Kaine? Jim Webb?!

The possibilities floated above barely qualify as Democrats, IMO - and Jim Webb doesn't qualify as anything than more palatable than George Allen, which applies to almost anyone. But choosing Tim Kaine would seriously screw over the Democrats in VA.

I know Obama would never choose Hillary - but he should. The two of them together would be invincible and would cause a tidal wave of excitement that would drown out McCain for good.

But the Democratic party has always been so good at screwing itself that the Republican party can basically just sit back and watch. And that's pretty much what I expect to happen this time, too.

[Arnold Judas Rimmer]

88. Aren't those names only floated by the media?

And I seem to remember Senator Webb saying he was not a candidate for the job. I don't believe any of the rumors put forth by the media concerning the whole VP thing. Obama's been a strategic player so far (whether poker or chess, sometimes seems a bit of both) so I'd say he's holding this card close to the vest, as it were.

[TheWraith]

89. Far from being invincible, Hillary of VP is actually our only chance of losing.

She instantly motivates the entire Republican base to come out and vote for McCain, someone they otherwise are unenthusiastic about. And she undermines Obama's message of having a different kind of politics, disenchanting independents and new voters.

[highplainsdem]

96. Funny that the polls all show otherwise. She consistently polled better against McCain than Obama

did, and polls by three different organizations over three months showed she'd help him as a running mate.

[Barrymores Ghost]

112. Yeah, if you count the Legions of Operation Chaos.

You're gonna have to source those polls, friend. I ain't buyin'.

[ieoeja]

83. FYI to Pamela Sumners, Moses *did not* get to the promised land. n/t

[highplainsdem]

90. Mario Cuomo is exactly right. There are no better qualified VP choices than Hillary Clinton.

[Meshuga]

99. How about a Joe Biden?

He seems pretty well qualified to me.

[highplainsdem]

103. No. Biden on the ticket can't unite the party. If he'd nearly won the nomination, it would be

different.

[geek tragedy]

118. Except that they don't come with Bill as part of the deal. n/t

[JackORoses]

91. pass

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[janx]

102. . . .

:rofl:

[AtomicKitten]

109. This thread is a no-pest strip for the caphill day trippers.

[dionysus]

123. they just can't seem to help themselves huh?

:rofl:

[LowerManhattanite]

171. Apparently, I have ticked off the toothless cat brigade. Ah well. :) n/t

[Barrymores Ghost]

110. Precisely! n/t

[highplainsdem]

98. K & R

[nomaco-10]

169. I want to take this opportunity to PUBLICLY APOLOGIZE to you ....

for any hurtful or insulting posts that were posted by me to you during the late hours of the past saturday night.

There is no doubt in my mind that you are a committed and loyal dem, and if the truth were known, I'm sure we would have a great many things in common outside of this forum.

Good luck and nothing but the best to you.

Sincerely and in all good will,
nomaco

[DevonRex]

113. She didn't want to be VP. If she had, she wouldn't have given

ammunition to the opposition during the primaries. She was effectively given the right of first refusal from February through the beginning of June. And she refused over and over again, in many ways. It is time for the very few remaining HRC supporters to face that fact. She gambled and lost. And in that gamble, she disqualified herself as the VP pick. It was a risk she was willing to take and there are consequences to that, just like everything else in life. She knew that at the time, even if a few of her supporters did not.

[iconicgnom]

115. Oh great, the blackmail meme again.

I guess it'll never end.

Seems the next stage, should BHO not choose HRC for VP, is for the blackmailers to work their tiny little hearts out to ensure vengeance is extracted, and that they get "proven right all along" that BHO couldn't win.

Pure meanness in motivation, pure meanness in tactics -- Rove to the second power, is what it is.

[DevonRex]

119. Yep. It makes women look so childish, too. It's embarrassing.

The actions and words of a tiny group of women reflects on all of us, unfortunately. And it makes me cringe.

[geek tragedy]

117. Bill Clinton is trying to sabotage Obama, so Hillary

isn't an option.

If she would divorce Bill, then bring her on board.

[Beacool]

122. Oh yeah, Hillary needs to divorce Bill to be selected as VP by Obama!!!

Because I'm sure that's much more important to her than her 30 + year marriage.

:crazy:

[geek tragedy]

127. Then no VP for her. Bill the Unfaithful Democrat

is a deal-breaker.

[blondeatlast]

121. Baby powder would chafe SOME Hillary supporters--those of the feline persuasion, certainly. nt

[underpants]

125. or

bigger pants suits

:hide:

[DevonRex]

140. OMG....

Had to have a little guilty laugh over that one. You're bad. :)

[DevonRex]

139. You're right. Absolutely nothing will soothe some of them. Can

you believe the amount of attention they're STILL demanding and getting?

I haven't been coming here as often in the last couple of weeks, kind of hoping things would change. But no. Same old arguments by the same old people. Kind of like that weird time warp that soap operas have. You know, how on a Friday they'll end the show just when you think you'll find out whose baby it is and then somehow you don't really find out for 6 more weeks, and they keep showing the same couple over and over again with those horrified expressions with melodramatic music in the background.

Same thing here. The sky is always falling. Hillary always has to be the VP and the world will come to an end if she's not. But somehow we keep going from day to day just fine.

*sigh*

[JVS]

137. I look forward to a day when this photo from CNN can be applied to the VP selection as well

[nomaco-10]

142. Caught good old Geraldine today on Fox news repeating...

the meme that Obama was not "experienced" enough and should at least try to pick a VP with at least some experience. Bob Beckel was cast as her counterpart, interesting that fox didn't even bother to try to get a gop talking head, beckel was clearly the bought and paid for dem voice and ferraro was clearly the anti-dem.

Thanks geraldine. You really came thru for the dems again.

Shame, shame, shame.

[beac]

143. “She is the only woman in history who was able to raise the kind of money one would need to run..

...a presidential campaign.”


No, she was the only woman in history RICH enough that when she COULDN'T raise enough money she was able to LOAN herself MILLIONS so she could stay in the race.

BIG difference.

[Think82]

145. Interesting... Ed Rendell and Terry Mcauliffe have been publicly pushing for Biden...

This would satisfy Hillary supporters I think.... First, Biden did not endorse Obama till he was the nominee. Second, he fills the "experience" concern of Hillary supporters, since he has way more experience than even Hillary does (even though she ran as the "most experienced"... laugh). Third, Biden has the author of the Violence Against Women's Act and would help with the women vote. I believe he'll connect to working-class voters. Then, obviously, he's a foreign policy whiz...

I think the Clinton surrogates pushing for Biden mean Obama will pick him, and Hillary and her supporters would be satisfied with that...

[Egnever]

148. I hope I hope!

Obama Biden is my dream ticket. If we get that I will be in heaven!

[shayes51]

158. There is no better choice than Hillary.

Period.

[TheBigotBasher]

170. Her supporters

claimed the use of period as sexist.

Did anyone notice the PUMA supporter sunbathing in New York?

[rucky]

164. It will piss off the people quoted in the article.

I can find three people with an opinion to back up pretty much anything that "may" happen.

NOW national told Pappas to STFU. Why does her opinion count more than the organization she supposedly represents? Because she's a "useful idiot" quoted at will to promote an agenda.

And it makes people read and react. So I guess I'm a useful idiot to Politico now.

[ecstatic]

172. Chafe? What an odd (sexist?) choice of words!

:eyes:

[AllentownJake]

175. Sky is blue today may chafe some former Hillary supporters

This a vast minority of her supporters but some are going to be angry no matter what Obama does or doesn't do.

[JeanGrey]

177. What "healed" wounds? Are there still folks left who

really think Hillary had a chance to be VP? I'm shocked.

[totodeinhere]

179. Bill Richardson has a much better resume than Clinton does.

He would also offer more political help to the ticket. Clinton's two strongest states are New York and Arkansas, which Obama should take anyway regardless of who is on the ticket. On the other hand, Richardson could help to bring along the battleground states of New Mexico, Colorado, and Nevada.

Therefore I support Richardson for VP and I do not support Clinton. It has nothing to do with gender. If Richardson were a woman and Clinton were a man my stance on the issue would be the same.

[salinen]

181. This is easy

There is a person who could defuse this situation entirely. The guys name is Barack. I am not a fan of having Hilary on the ticket. But if Barack thinks it's a good idea, and he's the one who'd decided to partner up with the Clintons, then I'm fine with that decision. She could also defuse this situation by going on CNN or MSNBC and saying that she loves being the New York Senator and will absolutely not entertain the idea of the V.P. slot. And, another way would be to let it be known that Hilary will take an important cabinet position.

[Kahuna]

182. I expect major drama.

:popcorn:

[Jazzgirl]

185. I don't have the picture but I swear, I'm gonna find it....

"Oh no!!! Not this shit again!!!!

[Danger Mouse]

195. Very appropriate for this thread.

[Danger Mouse]

196. Pfft. Too bad.

He picks who he picks. If she's the one, that's fine, if she's not, tough cookies.
The winner sets the tone, not the loser.

[rasputin1952]

199. I have to say...

No matter who gets the nod, there will be people that will not be happy.

Personally, after cheney, I hope the VP goes back to going to state funerals, presiding over the Senate, and sleeps a lot. Under the Constitution, the VP has no authority, and how it ever devolved into some kind of "Prince Regent" position is beyond me.

[BlooInBloo]

203. Who cares what that racist piece of shit Ferraro thinks?

[Jakes Progress]

236. With supporters like you,

your guy can't lose. Doin' a great job of mongering.

[OnionPatch]

204. Nothing against Hillary, but

the implication that there is only one woman who has what it takes to be president (or VP) seems very, very sexist to me.

[Alter Ego]

206. Obama is the nominee.

It is his decision--and he has to take into account the potential consequences of any decision.

[Phx_Dem]

213. Is there anything that doesn't chafe Hillary supporters? n/t

[ronnykmarshall]

217. Well we've been treated with such love and warmth in here.

Why I can't imagine WHY any of use would feel upset.

[Beacool]

219. Well, I'm a bit chafed.

Being summer and all........

:D

[mloutre]

233. Perhaps one of these might help?

http://tinyurl.com/6pt76t

(Winking and waving, honest...)

:hi:

[Beacool]

234. Thanks, I'll take them!!

I love to cook!!

:D

[crimsonblue]

229. Pamela Sumners is a stupid person...

first of all, Moses DIDN'T make it to the promised land. He stayed short of passing the river, and gave control over to his brother, Aaron. So, the parallel does actually fit. If you really are going to compare Hillary to Moses, then realize that she will never be President by your own logic. Plus, American history is rife with inspirational leaders that didn't see the fulfillment of their dreams: Lincoln, Wilson, MLK, Malcom X, Reagan (for the sheer fact that his brain was fried by '85). She is in no way entitled to higher office. Being President or VP is an HONOR, not a give away.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

231. Too bad.

I'm sorry that Hillary didn't get the nomination, but Obama is under no obligation to pick her.

She doesn't flip a state, she's hardly "experienced" compared to Dodd, Biden, etc., and she's already featured in anti-Obama ads by the GOP.

True, she did receive a large number of votes, and I give her credit for that, but that is not sufficient reason to pick her for VP. Neither is her pull among certain groups, especially considering Obama is closing the gap or has already won over enough of them -- Latinos, for example, who overwhelmingly prefer Obama to McCain.

Of course, if Obama does pick Hillary, that's fine by me. Though she's not my first choice, she is certainly not the worst candidate available.