Why are people so upset with Obama moving toward the middle?

[HardWorkingDem]

This is typical of how presidential elections are won. Yes, yes, Obama is not the typical politician, however, that does not mean American has not remained typical.

For one, I KNOW many of the things I'd like to see done are an absolute losers in a general election, but know if the Dems pick up seats in Congress and the White House, many of these things might become reality.

Take FISA for example. I'm not that upset now, as I would be later if a President Obama did not reconcile his earlier views with views after an election. So by modifying his position, he takes the debate of who would be tougher on terrorist investigations and renders the point moot.

Anyone who follows these things know in political reality that it's electrify the base to win in primaries, then move toward the center to garner more votes. Nothing to get upset about.

[mcctatas]

1. Because they are no longer part of the reality based

community? Actually, I find myself disappointed in some of Obama's behavior recently, but if I agreed with him on every issue, he would never stand a chance of getting elected so in an odd way, it's almost reassuring;)

[iamthebandfanman]

2. its not disliking him going 'toward the middle'

its disliking BAD IDEAS that WONT WORK...
its disliking PANDERING to a people who gave NO CONCESSIONS to us while they were in power and deserve none in return...

no, its not moving to the center we dislike...

its bad policy.

[chimpymustgo]

9. What he SAID. It's BAD IDEAS that WON"T WORK. And DANGEROUS ideas.

I'm sick of being LIED to.

[countmyvote4real]

14. Thank you.

And if we are expected to accept that it's pandering (eww)... How can we be sure it's not pandering and he won't swing back.

I don't have a problem with Obama's Democratic Primary message. He should keep it positive no matter how much ridiculous mud the McCain campaign throws at the message most of us want to hear. Obama should still own change no matter how much McCain's campaign desperately tries to tarnish it.

It's both alarming and sad that the McCain brand has already disintegrated into 2nd term Reagan. And yet, even Reagan's ads weren't that cynical and juvenile. That's always a bad combination for positive change. This is not about age. It's about outlook.

[LostinVA]

32. Good post

[spag68]

3. About FISA

I agree, however I view offshore drilling as a loser issue. Not only is it wrong in so many ways, but all the coastal states that are going to be affected by it will realize the foolishness of destroying their tourist economy, and once they start to wonder about Obama's motives it could really hurt. Tell me I'm wrong.

[autorank]

4. The "middle" is not accurate. It's to the right since the middle

is truly the center of the 70% or so who disapprove of the Bush cabal. They don't want bipartisanship. They know what the Republicans are up to. They don't have a lot of patience for the Democrats either. 2006 was a bait and switch - vote us in and we'll change things THEN not much changes.

People want the truth, which is we've been massively betrayed; those who did this are not free to just walk away; and the challenges we face are enormous and require immediate attention.

The "center" is a campaign and a set of positions that denies looming eco catastrophes - it's vital that these be addressed in an urgent fashion.

The "middle" is a campaign that avoids mentioning that the lies leading to Iraq make the liars responsible for the deaths of all involved.

The "middle" is a campaign that fails to mention the true total of U.S. deaths which include suicides and the over 1.0 million Iraqi civilians who died in civil strife, well known before the war, caused by trashing whatever it was that held that place together.

Screw the middle. It's dishonest...it's, it's LIEberman

[mathwhiz]

5. I have a feeling much of Obama's support was because he was the anti-hillary candidate

Obama was a blank screen that people could project all their hopes to.

Well, that screen is coming into focus and people are seeing Obama isn't the progressive liberal messiah.

He's a politican, not a god.

Remember that.

[katandmoon]

6. Because it proves he's just another dishonest politician who will say and do anything

To get elected, until nothing he says any more is believable.

[mathwhiz]

7. all politicans are dishonest

Did you read about how Obama fought to get candidates off the ballot so he could win his state senate seat in Chicago?

I mean the guys a politican and has to do what he has to do. He's not a god and people who put all their hopes and dreams into him are just fooling themselves and waiting to get disappointed.

Obama is a lot better than McCain but he's no deity.

[Beacool]

25. Frankly, that was pretty unethical.

What he did to Alice Palmer and the others who were running was hitting way below the belt. Interesting that even though Palmer won't talk about the incident, she was a Hillary supporter during the primary.

[depakid]

42. No, that was Chicago politics

-and we could use to see a bit more of that aimed at Republicans and their ilk.

[HardWorkingDem]

8. What has he really done or said to show he is dishonest like other politicians?

So far, Obama, in my opinion, has been more honest than any other politician in my memory when it comes to the typical presidential campaign.

And where do people get the idea that modifying one's opinion automatically must be linked to "dishonesty" or something seen to be as pandering?

[chimpymustgo]

12. Um, EVERYTHING since he won the nomination. Its like he pulled the mask off,

and Joe Lieberman was underneath.

[27inCali]

17. Watch the Freeper talk, man

[Skip Intro]

10. Oh no, nothing to get upset about. Just our rights under the constitution and our environment.

You sound like you want me to wave a flag and cheer.

Whatever it takes to win.

Sorry, I'm not going to pretend for anyone.

You want me to hire you to represent my best interests, the best interests of the country? Take a fucking stand and tell me why it's right and then defend it.

My question at this point is what is Obama's stance on ANWR?

[Pale Blue Dot]

11. Because moving toward the middle is defeatist,

we've tried it the past few elections and it hasn't worked, and it's not working this time.

Obama is right in his message: people DO want change. Each time he moves closer to the right he cancels out his own message.

In the meantime, an election that should be a slam dunk is staying close because Joe Sixpack is wondering if there really is a difference.

IT DOESN'T WORK.

[mathwhiz]

15. no the election is close

because Obama is black and his middle name is Hussein and that scares older whites and low-information voters who believe he is some kind of Manchurian candidate. The 10%+ of undecideds in these polls are almost all white and if they break for McCain because they can't handle Obama's brand of chance, McCain wins.

Obama's task for the next 3 months is to talk to these 10% of white swing voters and ignore his base because our votes are already baked into the cake. Doing anything else is political malpractice.

[Pale Blue Dot]

18. So, mathwhiz.

your theory doesn't explain why Obama's lead has NARROWED since he started this centrist crap. Could it be that the "whites and low-information voters" were ready to support him when he appeared to represent real change, but if he doesn't, they'll just go ahead and vote for the white guy?

Being a centrist doesn't work, and it hasn't worked for 24 years. Let's try something different for once, shall we?

[27inCali]

19. the national polls have been up and down and all over

and the electoral college still looks way better than it ever did for Kerry -and that's where the real battle is.

as much as it may drive us up the wall, the middle voters who don't know shit will decide, and he's gotta dumb it down a bit for them.

[mathwhiz]

24. honestly

the polls right now are just masturbation for political junkies.

Normal people are enjoying their summer and not paying attention. No poll is worth a damn until after both conventions and the debates start.

[mathwhiz]

22. we did try something different

we tried something different in 1972 and 1984 and what did it get us?

[Pale Blue Dot]

26. In '72 and '84 we were running against popular incumbents

who had strong economies behind them. And we ran candidates with about 1/16th of the charisma of Obama. The situations are not even remotely comparable.

The people of this country want change, and after Obama made them believe that change was really possible again, he's backtracking. It's a dumb move, and a strategy that has failed us time and again since after '84.

[mathwhiz]

28. umm

Obama made 50% of democratic primary voters (about 18 million people) believe in his brand of change. In 2004, 120 million people voted in the GE so I'll grant you that Obama has convinced the 15% most liberal portion of a general election electorate on his change.

He had a brilliant strategy to win the primary focusing on low turnout democratic caucuses where he pandered to the liberals who were anybody but Hillary but that's not going to win a general election. His bogy-woman is gone and McCain is a viable alternative to a lot of independents and conservative democrats.

[Beacool]

41. Hear, hear!!!

The big mistake of the Clinton campaign was not having a good grassroots organization in the caucus states. That's where Obama accumulated most of his pledged delegates, while Hillary won hers mainly through the primaries. I personally have always hated caucuses, they're disenfranchising and a 19th century relic. Who the hell has the time to caucus? Besides, many people are infirm, older and may have disabilities and can't caucus.

After the up to that point adoring media started vetting him, the "bogey-woman" won most of the primaries the last 4 months of the primary season. She won them all, except for IN, by wide margins. I believe that if Obama had been vetted sooner, Hillary would have won the nomination.

I think that despite the fawning of the media, the party leaders and many supporters, he's not as popular as he appears to be. The Republican brand is trash at the moment, people hate Bush, McCain is a terrible campaigner, the country is in the crapper, and our Democratic superstar hasn't yet crossed the 50% barrier in the national polls????

Why not?

[Whisp]

46. the media fawns over Obama?

the guy can't put two words together without them being picked apart into 10 hours of visciousness and innuendo from the pundits.

and now he's 'too skinny' to be president.....

what you smoking?

[Beacool]

48. They fawned over Obama through February.

Only after the SNL skit and the Wright controversy did they start vetting him.

Hillary was trashed daily, up to the day she dropped out and it's still going on in some quarters.

So, what have YOU been smoking?

[Whisp]

49. i guess he did'nt have a 'history' and Hillary does.

now the media is making up their own history for him.
it's probably when Hillary or her corporate friends called and threatened them that they all went sour on him. Like that Shuster thing and Chelsea - when mama bears rings you up, you better pay attention. I found that really strange that the Clintons have such power over the media.

you're happy that he's being ripped apart in the press, aren't you?

[Beacool]

50. Oh please...........

Stop it with the conspiracy theories.

:eyes:

[HardWorkingDem]

23. There is a HUGE difference between moving toward the middle and ineffective campaigns...

As a liberal, here's what I'd like to see:

An entire re-haul of the tax code and a redistribution of wealth;

Draconian measures to protect the environment;

A true Fairness Doctrine;

A true separation of church and state;

Taxation on religious organizations;

A damned draft;

Gay marriage;

Nationalized health care programs;

Making the extreme wealthy pay more and pay more dearly;

A tax system based on cost of living and income;

An eradication of sexism, racism and the other rotten isms out there;


Now, imagine if Obama moved to the extremes of all of these issues.....would he get elected? I think not.

[Pale Blue Dot]

27. My great disappointment so far is that while Obama has the oratory skills and charisma to win

on exactly the issues you've outlined above, and while running against a hugely unpopular party in the middle of a disastrous economic downturn, he is instead rushing to say "I'm not really that different!" It's costing him votes and giving the idiot Republicans a chance.

[BlooInBloo]

13. They don't really support him - they just mouth the words. As soon as any opportunity to jump ship..

comes along, they take it.

[Pale Blue Dot]

16. That's garbage.

I will be voting for Obama, I supported him over Clinton, and I WANT HIM TO WIN IN NOVEMBER. And not just win - I want him to turn this country around, which requires a hard turn to the left. The centrist crap is NOT working, the polls are clearly showing that, and by using it Obama is giving a hateful, loser of a candidate a chance to win.

Stop shooting the messenger and help convince our candidate to stand up for the ideals that you - and I - believe in.

[AndyTiedye]

20. It's Not the Middle. It's the RIGHT

I suppose he has to do it because the right still has all the power.

[Beacool]

21. Because he acted as if he was better, something different.

Someone who ranted against the corruption in Washington and many people pinned their hopes on his message of "change".

Well, now they are finding out that he's just another politician, maybe better packaged, but a politician nonetheless.

Democrats tend to go right during the GE and Republicans tend to go left, so that they both end up somewhere near the center. But, there are certain lines that a progressive Democrat should not cross and FISA was one of them.

Well, we got two choices this election: a younger man who is all things to many people and may end up being none to all and an old man with bad policies.

Either way, we're screwed.

[Carrieyazel]

29. He's not moving to the middle as much as running away from long-held positions

That's his big problem, and why the poll numbers are falling down for him. He's getting called out on it and doesn't really know how to tackle it effectively.

[rug]

30. Because it's not necessary.

The Republicans are at their weakest in decades. It is a unique opportunity to actually lead this country in a better direction. Barring the emergence of a violated goat on broadcast television, McCain will lose. Decisively. Strong, coherent articulation of progressive values and demonstrated leadership to enact them is required. Nuanced pandering to a mythic center is lame, wrong and ultimately ineffectual.

[HardWorkingDem]

37. Um, right.......and when I wake up tomorrow and no one is still talking about the elephant...

in the room and still think Obama can veer all the way in the left ditch and still win, we still won't be much farther along.

[rug]

43. As long as you don't wake up and find nothing has changed.

[ileus]

31. he'll move back once he tricks the repukes into voting for him in Nov

don't worry....hillary would have done the same thing. After we win it's take back America time, right now it's win votes time.

[Better Believe It]

33. So You're Saying He's Dishonest And Is A Tricky Politician?

Like McCain?
Ya .... that's the change people are looking for and how we must win elections.

Lie to the people!

I don't think so.

[LostinVA]

35. Yeah, that's what he's saying -- and he says he's an Obama supporter

[LostinVA]

34. Hillary Clinton has nothing to do with this -- there's no reason to bring her up

She won't be the nominee, Obama will be. I'm not the least surprised by any of what he's doing -- I said months ago this is what would happen. But, I'm not the one people need to be worrying about, because there's no chance in hell I'd ever vote for McCain, but there are plenty of other people who are confused and hurt by this. Obama needs to stay away from the right before he loses too many people.

[NorthCarolina]

39. That is a loser strategy if what you say is correct

the ugly truth is that Republicans will vote party line every time, and they would never vote for a black man, especially a black man who is also a Democrat. All he will succeed in doing by this turn to the right is to yank a great deal of the enthusiasm out of his campaign.

[Beacool]

44. He'll move back once he wins????

You honestly believe that???

:eyes:

BTW, you don't know what Hillary would have done. Don't excuse our nominee's many policy "adjustments" in the last few weeks by assuming that Hillary would have done the same thing.

[NorthCarolina]

36. I think it is his apparent decision that Progressive ideals

are not salable to the voting public. This about face comes in spite of the fact that it was precisely his show of Progressive ideals that launched his primary campaign to the top, generated a huge loyal following, and gave hope to millions of voters that yes, through Obama's leadership based on solid Progressive ideals, we can turn this country around and make it better. Were we duped yet again? Nobody can say for sure as only time will tell. I do personally believe this shift will hurt him in the long run because the "fire" will be extinguished from the campaign as he shifts to become simply just another middle-of-the-road politician.

[TwilightGardener]

38. Doesn't upset me at all. I'm pretty much a centrist.

[bridgit]

40. Doesn't bother me, 'people' will do & say amazing things to keep from understanding...

that America is better governed from within a state of balance, somewhere round about the middle. I see Obama heading for the same cliff bush drove the country off; I'll come back to request it time my concerns be duly noted

[salonghorn70]

45. Obama's Move To The Middle As Viewed By This Clinton Supporter

It has made it easy to be very enthusiastic about Obama after a very disappointing loss.

[Quixote1818]

47. Even F.D.R. moved the the middle when running, and look how liberal

his presidency ended up being.

[tuesdaymorning]

51. Because it makes me wonder just how far right he will go

and whether his speech 4 years ago that got me all excited was just a bunch of hot air.

That's why.