It's official: McCain kicked Obama's ass this week.

[geek tragedy]

Yes, he did it in a dirty, lowdown fashion. Yes, he cheated lied and racebaited.

And, you know what? That crap works every time.

People always claim that they're sick of negative advertising. Don't believe them.

Going negative works.

Obama has to beat up on the old bastard every day between now and November. Take Bush's economic record and beat his brains in with it.

John McCain does not deserve respect or dignity.

Numbers:



http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/general_election_match_up_history

[YOY]

1. Let's start slinging...they are sitting in glass houses throwing shitbombs.

DO NOT MAKE KERRY'S MISTAKE BARRACK!

We've been nice enough. That much has shown.

[geek tragedy]

2. Time to call him a shameless goddamn liar.

Because that's exactly what he is.

[knixphan]

99. Hell yes.

[ray of light]

9. That's BUll sh*t. It wasn't ONLY Kerry's mistake. FUNNY--99% of whole democratic party AWOL 2004

yet people blame only Kerry?

That's such bull shit.

Where was McAulliffe from 2000 stolen election ONE to 2004 stolen election THREE? Why does he get a pass?

The media KNEW in 2003 that Kerry would break them up, so the media gave Bush FREE AIR TIME. And they threw scraps on the shows and left the BEST parts of Kerry on their cutting room floors.

So stop repeating the bullshit.

An election is a GROUP EFFORT. Not one person standing on a hill with a sword with another person similarly equiped.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

59. Make calls demanding that the Democrats take action!

They did the same to Kerry.

Here's my generic letter sent to Pelosi, Reid, Dean, Hoyer, Emmanuel, Schumer, Clyburn Van Hollen...

Dear ______:

A few years ago, MoveOn.org ran a television advertisement addressing General Petraeus' status report regarding the conditions on the ground in Iraq. The Republican-led U.S. House of Representatives responded swiftly, issuing a resolution to condemn MoveOn's ad. Many Democrats joined the Republicans in both the House and the U.S. Senate in support of this resolution.

As you know, Senator John McCain has begun a "low road" smear campaign against our Democratic nominee for president. His negative attack ads are baseless, containing mistruths, accusations and outrageous, incendiary remarks.

I am respectfully requesting that similar action take place in Congress to demand a full, formal apology from Senator McCain and his presidential campaign; specifically, I urge the U.S. House and Senate to issue a resolution condemning John McCain's accusation that Obama "snubbed" U.S. troops in Germany and suggesting that he would rather win an election and "lose a war."

(Title and Name), I implore you not to allow the swiftboating of Senator Obama as was done to Senator John Kerry in 2004. I, and many concerned voters, call on you to exercise your leadership and respond swiftly and forcefully.

If a formal resolution is not possible, please demand that John McCain retract his outrageous and false remarks and repudiate the smear campaign that he is now leading.

Thank you so very much for your time,

A Proud American Citizen

[politicasista]

88. Thank You! It's easy for everyone here to blame ONLY Kerry

rather than the people that should have been doing the heavier lifting.

I agree we need to stop repeating the BS and buying into the lies of the media.


Excellent post. I know you may or may not get crickets after this, but again, excellent rebuttal.











edit for word

[Median Democrat]

3. Correction - Going Negative In Big Media Only Works For GOP

Big Media is not going to cooperate with a Democratic version of Karl Rove:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6571279

[YOY]

7. That's Hillary. It's not a damn thing to do with party.

She and Bill were a glass house in and of herself. She still decided to start slinging...

[Median Democrat]

10. So, You're Saying Big Media Is Not Biased?

Remember ABC's 9/11 Docudrama that blamed 9/11 on the Clintons in 2006? What about the "Stolen Honor" attack film in the 2004 election with respect to Kerry. Big Media is not going to treat a negative attack from the Democrats equally with a GOP attack.

[YOY]

13. Some outlets yes and some no

ABC have shown where their concerns are: flag pins and bullshit.

[Median Democrat]

20. Who Is Not Biased Or Biased In Favor of the Democrats?

There Are Only Five Major Corporations. Which of these five are biased for the GOP, for the Democrats, and neutral:

1. CBS

2. News Corp. (Fox)

3. General Electric (NBC)

4. Disney (ABC)

5. TimesWarner (CNN).

http://www.mediachannel.org/ownership/chart.shtml

[JoFerret]

63. Stop already

Stop trying to divide the party.

Heard of the phrase "Not this time"?

Act on it.

[emilyg]

92. Get over the primaries.

[PatSeg]

56. I agree

Anytime the Dems try Rovian tactics, the media rakes them over the coals. When it comes to the MSM, things are not equal.

(Good thread you started.)

[JoFerret]

67. Worked for Lyndon Johnson

And Clinton got them cranked up in spite of the GOP.

But it is not a project for the faint hearted.

[Median Democrat]

110. We had an independent media with Lyndon Johnson

Now, there are only 5 corporations that run all of media. Back in LBJ's time, the Neocons hasd not arrived on the scene and media control was far more dispersed.

[ecstatic]

4. Where are our 527s?

:shrug:

[geek tragedy]

8. It was a big mistake sidelining them.

BIG mistake.

[TwilightGardener]

14. How were they sidelined, and how do we UN-sideline them?

[geek tragedy]

24. Obama discouraged all the big donors from

donating to them.

[TwilightGardener]

28. Well, he can change his mind, can't he? This is WAR!

(and his big donors can decide not to take his advice, as well--what can he possibly do about it?)

[Virginia Dare]

37. He's got enough money to fight the war.

and maybe he wants to control his own message. I can see where he would be nervous about what would be thrown out there, especially in light of the "Betray-us" debacle.

[TwilightGardener]

39. That's true. Keep MoveOn far away, let more competent groups handle it.

[ecstatic]

65. I hope MoveOn attacks the GOP controlled media

Since McCain is off the table. There are plenty of pro-repug outlets we can attack.

[BeyondGeography]

5. He won't go negative

Part of me just wants him to embrace the stench, the other part says, fuck 'em, if Americans are that attracted to The Big Ugly, they can't be helped.

[Barack_America]

30. They're attracted to it until a certain point...

Then they will start to realize the economy is only getting shittier and there's only one guy talking about what he can do for them.

This summer was always going to be rocky. The debates are going to massacre McCain and the GOP knows it. He will not be able to keep his cool around Obama. Obama can run circles around him intellectually, is patient and has policy on his side. Bad news for McCain. So the only possible strategy is to try to knock Obama's numbers down significantly before the debates. Try to get people to choose sides early. So that's what they're doing. But Obama's bump from the foreign policy trip has forced them to go more negative more quickly than they had planned (to keep poll #'s from getting out of hand). They would love nothing more than for Obama to reciprocate the negativity because that gives them a pass. But if Obama stays defensive and on-topic, they'll be forced to go increasingly negative (hard to believe that's possible) and that is a BIG risk for them for the reasons I listed above.

More than anything else what has gotten Obama this far is discipline. I hope he sticks to it.

Sorry for the long post, lol.

[BeyondGeography]

42. I'm with you

Obama really isn't good at being anything other than himself. His point on going negative is that it hampers your ability to govern even in the event that it works. I always liked in the primary season when he would say, "We're not just trying to win an election, we're trying to change the way this country works."

That's the guy I voted for and I'm sticking to it.

[Union Thug]

I don't think 'they' will start to realize anything...

Most Americans don't pay much attention - they lack depth and are easily manipulated by the messaging - whether it be Madison Ave selling them shit that they don't need or their willingness to slurp up the messages of greasy campaign ads, the majority rarely go deep.

[tekisui]

6. He's running B*sh's Third campaign, the same way chimpy would.

But, it is just a reminder that McWither is no different than chimpy.

McWither has hit his ceiling, he hasn't been above 45% in Gallup since Obama clinched. And he has NEVER been above 48%.

Further, the National poll means little. The Electoral College map still has Obama winning either narrowly or handily. McWither still shows a lose on the EC.

[Virginia Dare]

26. He IS different though..

he's not a sociopathic liar the way the chimp is. He's just a run-of-the mill liar. He was weirdly uncomfortable going in for the kill last night with John King.

Plus he doesn't like being controlled the way the chimp does. He won't let somebody else do his thinking for him. He can't seem to stay on message, he's all over the place.

Things are falling apart for them, and I suspect that after the initial shit-storm of this week dies down, they're back to square one. What do they do for an encore?

[SidneyCarton]

111. Which is why McCain is a disaster for the Republicans.

Unlike * and Reagan, McCain is not wholly empty, though what remains is twisted and shrunken from what it might have been. That said he has a strong contrarian streak that does not react well to handling, hence a rovian campaign, with the mindless figurehead babbling platitudes while his underlings eat babies and slaughter small children in the name of the cause, doesn't work as well.

[ZinZen]

109. I agree tekisui

there are alot of chicken little rumblings going on around here. Most people are not even paying attention right now to politics like we are. Mclame's numbers are the same, they are not rising in the polls and the polls are not scaring me in the least. I expected this. I hope more people have confidence if what the Obama campaign will do after the convention and Labor Day.

[SuperTrouper]

11. Yes, Obama got overconfident after his trip overseas

and got his ass kicked royally this week by the imperious a$$hole McSame. It is a wake up call that we should heed...negative campaigning works and McCain and RNC are masters of negative mudslinging and the Obama campaign is acting as if they'd rather assemble a transition team.

[JackORoses]

17. what an innane attitude

[CakeGrrl]

44. This is short-term reactionary thinking in the moment

I'm quite sure that Team Obama is well aware of the media bias and have taken that into consideration about how to play this campaign. Obama told his staff weeks ago after the primaries that they would now be attacked like never before.

I seriously doubt the Obama camp is sitting around shell-shocked that the McCain camp is doing what they're doing...or that the MSM is doing what it's doing.

Fighting both their opponent and the MSM takes more than just getting mad at every jab thrown by McCain. I trust the Obama campaign to know how to counter it. They've come this far when no one thought they would.

[KittyWampus]

60. No, it's not reactionary seeing how McCain opened himself up for an asskicking by using the troops

as a political football and Obama's campaign was too fucking stupid to use it.

Again, the McCain campaign gave Obama a HUGE opening to beat the living shit out of him, and Obama's campaign totally dropped the ball.

[SuperTrouper]

64. Good point, they had a chance to send McCain to the ropes and they missed it

[TwilightGardener]

12. It was Kitchen Sink Two--every day, a BRAND new attack, from a different direction--

and each one gets picked up by the media and rehashed and spread around. That's what Hillary did--"Shame on you!" and NAFTA and plagiarism and cultism and elitism and Geraldine Ferraro, and all sorts of ridiculous bullshit, almost none of it with merit--but it wasn't a one-two punch. It was a one-two-three-four-five-six-seven punch, day after day, some new bullshit that could be spread faster than it could be countered, and left Obama on the defensive, because the media would start examining the charges and NOT covering what HE was actually doing or saying in terms of issues and policy. They would not allow him to steer the race back to the high ground. This is what the GOP is counting on too.

[Barack_America]

15. There's no need to panic. Let McCain keep digging...

He'll have himself buried in no time.

This race is going to fluctuate like this until the debates. The MSM will find it very hard to keep propping McCain up at that point.

[Virginia Dare]

31. Exactly. How does his saying he's "proud" of the Paris Hilton ad..

ultimately help him? People expected better than that from "maverick" John McCain. He just trashed his entire reputation with that false smear.

I think the initial bump in the polls was from the "Obama is responsible for gas prices" bullcrap, and that whole argument will fall like a house of cards soon. I think the Democrats really need to push back hard by tying McCain to the oil companies and the Cheney energy plan.

[Barack_America]

38. Lol. We think alike...

I just posted similar thoughts upthread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6571280&mesg_id=6571390

:thumbsup:

[geek tragedy]

43. People don't give a shit about whether

he's proud of his ad.

[Virginia Dare]

48. Then who are they voting for?

Why are people voting for McCain? I thought he was the ultimate Washington outsider who bucks the typical politics as usual.

I thought he was the brave war hero who puts his country first? I thought he was the guy who reaches his hand across the aisle and doesn't play gotcha politics.

Then this is the bullshit he comes up with one month into the race?

I think people will realize he's not the guy they thought he was.

[geek tragedy]

53. McCain hopes to be the default if people

can't feel comfortable voting for Obama.

[Virginia Dare]

57. Smearing McCain in turn is not going to make those people more comfortable..

you will never be able to demonize McCain the "war hero" the "brave POW", the long-time distinguished Senator. Let him trash himself, and I believe he just took a big leap in doing that by running that Paris Hilton ad. We haven't seen the full fall out from that yet.

[Quixote1818]

16. McCain has a ceiling of 44%. He just won back some who have been wavering

back and forth on him. No big deal.

[americanstranger]

91. I swear, it's like that Gallup poll is now cast in stone.

Jesus, it's a daily tracking poll. Polls fluctuate.

I'm not going to get upset about it, though. It's kinda fun watching people freak tou. :)

- as

[Virginia Dare]

18. Meh. I'll wait until the fundraising numbers come out...

I'll bet Obama kicked McCain's ass again there.

[geek tragedy]

22. Dollars don't vote.

McCain's strategy is working. This mamby pamby crap about "low road" just makes Obama look weak.

[Virginia Dare]

27. Dollars buy votes...

and I don't think Obama is being namby pamby at all. I like his strategy of mockery.

[Life Long Dem]

47. Yeah just like Clinton's strategy worked.

The only strategy that worked in the primary was Obama's.

McSame can't win on policy, so the attack and people are sick of it.

[EnviroBat]

19. This is fucked up.

there is no fucking reason on this Earth that McLame should be tied in any way with Obama. It's the fucking talking heads on Faux Noise that are spinning their fucking propaganda and causing the retards to fizz. This bullshit is being engineered by the media to get the election within stealing range again. McCain does nothing, he IS NOTHING.

[whistle]

61. Obama has to begin getting very specific about the economy,

...domestic issues and foreign affairs, i.e.

- to address the foreclosure and bank failures that are now spinning out of control, adopt the Hillary Clinton Homeowner and Chartered Banks Foreclosure Program; propose s whole new world monetary fixed currency exchange FDR style Bretton Woods agreement with our top trading partners China, India, Russia, U.S. ; establish long term infrastructure development plans to be implemented over the next 50 to 75 years to assure full employment and resource development; and so forth. Specifics that the people and businesses can see their place and long range security in the structure.

Then point out that this will be accomplished peacefully where McCain, the neocons and the republicans envision only endless wars and blood to support their visions of empire.


<link> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system

[RayOfHope]

101. He IS! For gods sake, he is now giving economic town hall meetings all over the place.

He's doing what he needs to, but the jerkoffs that are the MSM continue to focus on such crazy shit as 'is Obama too thin?'

[whistle]

128. Have you read the transcripts of those Economic Town Hall Meetings?

...What specific programs does Obama outline for the constituants?

Here is what Obama said today in one of his Economic Town Hall Meetings in ST Petersburg FL. Long on general feel good ideas, still very thin on specifics:

<snip>
Sen. Barack Obama Speaks on the Economy at a Town Hall Meeting in St. Petersburg, Fla.

CQ Transcriptswire
Friday, August 1, 2008; 3:17 PM



OBAMA: I've often said that this election is a defining moment in our history. On major issues like the war in Iraq or the warming of our planet, the decisions we make in November and over the next few years will shape a generation, if not a century. Nowhere is that more true than when it comes to our economy.

Just today, we learned that 51,000 jobs were lost last month alone, the seventh straight month of job loss -- now totaling over 460,000 jobs lost since the beginning of this year. This follows yesterday's news that in the last year, wages and benefits fell further behind inflation than at any time in over twenty-five years. Meanwhile, gas prices are out of control. Food prices are soaring. If you're lucky enough to have health care, your copays, deductibles, and premiums are skyrocketing. College is becoming less affordable. And we've seen more foreclosures than at any time since the Great Depression. Back in the 1990s, your incomes grew by $6,000, and over the last several years, they've actually fallen by nearly $1,000.

So for many families, these anxieties are getting worse, not better. People are starting to lose faith in the American dream, which is the idea that if you work hard, you can build a better life not just for yourselves but for your children and grandchildren. A lot of people feel like that dream is slipping further out of reach. That's why I'm running for President of the United States -- because America is supposed to be the place where you can make it if you try.

And a lot of people are trying, but they're having a tough time making it. Part of it has to do with changes in the way our economy works. Over the last few decades, revolutions in technology and communication have made it so that corporations can send good jobs wherever there's an Internet connection. Children in St. Petersburg aren't just growing up competing for good jobs with children in Boston or Chicago, but with children in Beijing and Bangalore.

But what we also have to remember is that our economic problems aren't simply due to changes in how our economy works, and they aren't just a normal part of the business cycle. They're also due to irresponsible decisions that were made on Wall Street and in Washington. In recent years, we have relearned the essential truth that in the long run, we cannot have a thriving Wall Street and a struggling Main Street. When wages are flat, prices are rising, and more Americans are mired in debt, the economy as a whole suffers. When a reckless few game the system, as we've seen in this housing crisis, millions suffer and we're all affected. When special interests put their thumb on the scale, and distort the free market, the people who compete by the rules come in last. And when our government fails to meet its obligation -- to provide sensible oversight and stand on the side of working people and invest in their future -- America pays a heavy price.

So we have a choice to make in this election. We can either choose a new direction for our economy, or we can keep doing what we've been doing. My opponent believes we're on the right course. He's said our economy has made great progress these past eight years. He's embraced the Bush economic policies and promises to continue them. Well, our country and families in Florida cannot afford to keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different result. That's a gamble we just can't take.

It's time for something new. It's time to restore balance and fairness to our economy so it works for all Americans. That's why as President, I will put a middle class tax cut into the pockets of 95% of workers, provide relief to struggling homeowners, and eliminate income taxes for seniors making less than $50,000 a year. And I'll end tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas and give them to companies that create good jobs here at home. But you can't wait that long. You need immediate relief.

Now, I've already called for a stimulus package on two different occasions this year, and much of what I've proposed has passed in Congress. These efforts have made some difference. But with job losses mounting, prices rising, increased turbulence in our financial system, and a growing credit crunch, we need to do more. I discussed these issues with my top economic advisers at a meeting on Monday and we agreed that the main risk we face today is doing too little in the face of our growing economic troubles. That's why today, I'm announcing a two-part emergency plan to help struggling families make ends meet and get our economy back on track.

The first part of my plan is a $1,000 emergency energy rebate that could go out to families as soon as this fall. This rebate will be enough to offset the increased cost of gas for a working family over the next 4 months. Or, if you live in a state where it gets very cold in the winter, it will be enough to cover the entire increase in your heating bills. Or you could use the rebate for any of your other bills or even to pay down debt.

As we provide relief, we must also be mindful of the swelling budget deficit. That is why I am proposing that we pay for this rebate by taxing the windfall profits of oil companies like Exxon Mobil -- a company that announced yesterday that it made nearly $12 billion last quarter, more than any U.S. corporation has ever made in a single quarter. It's time we used some of their record profits to help you pay record prices.

The second part of my plan is a $50 billion stimulus to help jump-start job creation and help local communities that are struggling due to our economic downturn. Half of this stimulus will go to state governments that are facing big budget shortfalls. When state governments are forced to cut spending on essential services like police or firefighters, it doesn't just undermine the safety of our communities, it makes our economic problems even worse. By offering $25 billion to state governments, we can help ensure that they don't have to let workers go or freeze their salaries or raise property taxes on families who are hurting. And we can also help ensure that they continue providing foreclosure counseling and other services to help families stay in their homes in areas that have been hard-hit by our housing crisis.

We'll invest the other half of this $50 billion in our national infrastructure so we can create new jobs and save over one million jobs that are in danger of being cut. With construction costs rising, the Highway Trust Fund is facing a deficit for the first time ever -- and that means that current infrastructure projects are being delayed and new ones are being postponed. This is part of the reason we've lost 600,000 jobs in the construction industry in recent years. So what we'll do is replenish the Trust Fund and make a down-payment on my plan to create a National Infrastructure Bank to rebuild our crumbling roads and bridges. We'll also invest some of this money to repair our crumbling schools -- because that won't just help make sure our children are getting a world-class education, it will spur job- growth and boost our local economies.

Now my opponent has a very different economic philosophy. He's proposing to cut the gasoline tax paid by the oil companies and trust that they will pass on the savings in the form of lower prices at the pump. It's a plan that strips $9 billion from our highway construction funds, which means we will lose over 300,000 construction jobs. And he's also proposing tax cuts for corporations and the wealthiest Americans in the hope that a little bit of it will trickle down to you.

Well, I do not believe that giving $4 billion in new tax cuts to oil companies -- including $1.2 billion to Exxon-Mobil alone -- will create any jobs or save you any money. Instead, I believe America is at its strongest when our economy is growing from the bottom-up. If we want relief for families, we should give relief to families. If we want to create jobs, we should do more to make work pay for ordinary Americans. That's what my plan does -- because that's how we'll bring America the change we need right now.

But we have to do more than just provide short-term relief. We have to secure our long-term prosperity and strengthen America's competitiveness in the 21st century. It won't be easy. It won't happen overnight. But I refuse to accept that we cannot meet the challenges of our global economy. I'm running for President because I believe we can seize our own economic destiny.

But we do have a choice to make in November. We can choose to go another four years without truly solving our energy crisis; or we can make America energy independent so we're less vulnerable to oil price shocks and $4 a gallon gas. We can build an American green energy sector by investing in renewable energies like wind power, solar power, and the next generation biofuels. And we can create up to five million new green jobs that pay well and can't be outsourced. That's what we can choose to do in this election.

We can choose to go another four years with the same reckless fiscal policies that have busted our budget, wreaked havoc in our economy, and mortgaged our children's future on a mountain of debt; or we can restore fiscal responsibility in Washington by starting to wind down a war in Iraq that's costing $10 billion a month, by cutting wasteful spending, by shutting corporate loopholes and tax havens, and by rolling back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans.

We can go another four years with a broken health care system; or we can say that if we're spending more money on health care per capita than any other nation on earth, we shouldn't have 47 million people without health care. We shouldn't have families going bankrupt just because they got sick. We shouldn't have businesses struggling to stay afloat because they can't afford rising health care costs. We should be guaranteeing health care for anyone who wants it, making it affordable for anyone who needs it, and cutting costs for businesses and their workers by picking up the tab for some of the most expensive illnesses and conditions. And that's what we'll do by the end of my first term as President of the United States.

We can choose to stay mired in the same education debate that's consumed Washington for decades, or we can provide every child with a quality education so they have the skills to succeed in our global economy. We can invest in early childhood education, recruit an army of qualified teachers with better pay and more support, and finally make college affordable by offering an annual $4,000 tax credit in exchange for community or national service. America will invest in you, you'll invest in America, and together, we'll move this country forward.

These are the choices we face in November. And yet, instead of talking about these real choices, my opponent is running an increasingly negative campaign that's distorting my record and using the same old Washington political attacks that are trotted out every four years. Just yesterday, your own St. Petersburg Times wrote that their campaign has taken a "nasty turn into the gutter." The American people deserve better. You deserve a serious discussion about our nation's challenges. And you deserve real solutions to our economic problems -- solutions that will help ensure that here in this country, opportunity is open to anyone who's willing to work for it.

In the end, that's all most Americans are asking for. It's not a lot. You don't expect government to solve all your problems. You want to be self-reliant and independent. You want to be responsible for your own lives and take care of your own families. But what you do expect is a government that isn't run by the special interests. What you do expect is that if you're willing to work, you should be able to find a job that pays a decent wage, that you shouldn't go bankrupt when you get sick, and that you should be able to send your child to college even if you're not rich. You do expect that you should be able to retire with dignity and respect.

That's what you should expect. And that's why I'm running for President of the United States. And if you're willing to stand with me and work with me and vote for me, then we will not just win Florida, we will win this election, and then you and I together will change this country and change this world.

END

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/01/AR2008080102035.html

[cbc5g]

21. If it can change 9 points in 6 days then it can change back

[nolabels]

107. Most people have not even started focusing in on the election, so no it can't change that fast.

Maybe 4 or 5 points but with no real news even that sounds ridiculous.

[beachmom]

23. Sigh. It's not sustainable. I happen to like Obama's economic emergency plan myself.

You know, that actually affects me.

[ProSense]

25. "John McCain does not deserve respect or dignity."

Yeah, but he deserves a BS headline that gives credibility to spin?

Gallup was recently called out for manipulating one of its polls. Do we really need to give credence to BS.

Yeah, let Obama run a negative ad (you know, like the ones we're referring to as BS). I'm sure the media will comply with an attaboy: good one.

Fat chance!

[geek tragedy]

29. He needs to put the spotlight on the Bush-McCain

record.

[ProSense]

32. He does it everyday. n/t

[geek tragedy]

82. If nobody is talking about it, he obviously

isn't.

The way to get the focus on your opponent is to attack him.

[Virginia Dare]

33. I agree. He does need to do that...and soon..n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

36. LOL

[JackORoses]

34. It's Official: DU has been overrun with the bastard children of Tropics_Dude

Negative attacks work in the short-term.
Too bad for McAnus that the election isn't next week.

Eventually, they will achieve diminishing returns. And if they continue, by November, McAnus will have gone down in history as the most shameful and deceitful man to have run for the Presidency.

[geek tragedy]

40. That's what we thought in 2004.

Screw this 'politics of hope' crap. People are voting for Obama because Republican policies have failed, not because they detest negative advertising.

[treestar]

87. One difference from 2004

Obama is more inspiring than Kerry, so these attacks are more likely to backlash against McMean. The voters who pay little attention until the end are going to discover what both candidates are like, and in their shallow way, prefer Obama. Maybe he really can afford the high road. These polls can't mean that much at this stage. Let the pollsters prove there are actually people who changed their mind over the last week because they saw McLame's ads and believed them. People that dumb shouldn't live, but if they exist, find them.

[politicasista]

90. No, the ONE difference is that Kerry has Obama's back

like Democrats should have had Kerry's in 04. Love how people are letting them off the hook for that.

Plus, the 2008 political climate is extremely different than 2004. We now have YouTube and other blogs, video sites, and grassroots sites (i.e. MoveOn.org, etc.) that are out there to counter the smears. Plus, Obama himself appreciates the hard work that Kerry is giving him, it's too bad some (not all) of his supporters respect that or show the surrogate more respect.

And I am sure that Obama himself would be upset that some (not all or you personally) of his supporters are continuing to diss one of (if not his top) surrogate just to promote him. There is lots of footage and pics that show that Kerry drew enthusiastic large crowds, and people that have met him would highly disagree that he wasn't inspiring. He got more votes than any other presidential candidate in history.

In 2000, the media said Gore was a "bore," Kerry was just "boring," or "uninspiring" (Amazing Kerry had charisma in 2000, but none in 04). They are trying so hard to say Obama is "arrogant" or "overconfdent".

It's amazing that people here complain so much about the media, yet buy into everything they fabricate.

[Virginia Dare]

41. Agreed. Throwing negative smears like shit pies smacks of..

desperation. Obama isn't desperate. Not yet. I suspect he will never be that desperate.

[Barack_America]

46. While floating the idea that a VP had been selected helped Obama...

Sink that "Obama hates the troops" BS, it's been horrible for DU. Many "concerned" people who were hoping for *somebody* else to be VP have returned.

Blech.

[JackORoses]

50. they're pissy because the door is about to officially close on their dreams of glory

[americanstranger]

49. Thank God somebody gets it.

If McCain's full-on negative in freakin' July, where's he gonna go after the convention? More negative? Ultra-negative? Super-duper double-secret negative?

He's gonna burn out the public if he does. You can't do four months of negative without people thinking there's something seriously wrong with you.

Get a fucking grip, people.

- as

[geek tragedy]

51. Of course he will.

And it'll work.

[JackORoses]

68. I'm really glad you don't run the show.

Because then I might have to pay attention to your flagellating.

As it stands, you sound like you've been hanging out with Rove and crew.

[geek tragedy]

73. I've learned that if you're going to get

covered with mud, you might as well dive in.

[americanstranger]

84. That's exactly what McCain wants.

That will give him an opportunity to say 'Welp, so much for The New Politics.'

It's fucking textbook. This was all played out with Hillary in the primaries.

The fact that Obama refuses to take their bait is driving them nuts. Why do you think they pulled the whole 'race card' stunt?

- as

[JackORoses]

86. then what, pray tell, separates you from your opponent?

[geek tragedy]

129. Sharing Bush's policies, platform, and party. n/t

[americanstranger]

70. No, it won't.

Maybe you haven't noticed, but quite a few Republicans - even friends and supporters of McCain - are starting to panic because he's gone completely negative even before his nomination is official.

And the reason they're freaking out is because if the McCain campaign keeps up the negativity - with absolutely no positive vision of where he'll take the country - people will turn away from his candidacy.

People want a certain amount of uplifting qualities in their choice for president. I keep saying that as nasty as Bush's campaigns were, Bush and Rove understood that there needs to be some positivity to balance out the nasty campaigning.

McCain has completely missed that part of the equation, and it will bury him. Watch a McCain campaign event - it's a small little man, hunched over and sour-looking, speaking in hushed tones about how his opponent is a Big Scary 'Other.'

Zero positive vision. That type of campaign cannot be sustained for the duration of a general election campign. It will bum people out, and people don't want to be bummed out by their candidate.

But do you know why he's doing it?

Because he is trying to solidify his base.

He didn't do that in the primaries, because every other Repub candidate sucked so hard that the nomination landed in his lap. Now he's scrambling to make up ground and solidify the voting bloc that should have been with him from the time it was clear that he'd get the nomination.

Remember this - a lot of people, a lot of Republicans, do not like John McCain. So he ends up running what amounts to a primary campaign in a general election, because a lot of people who are supposed to be excited about his candidacy are not convinced yet.

McCain's campaign is a fucking train wreck. Why some people here want Barack to emulate that campaign is way beyond me.

- as

[geek tragedy]

72. Scoreboard.

Yeah, they're wringing their hands. Meanwhile, McCain has pulled even and completely erased every single positive aspect of what happened on Obama's overseas trip.

[americanstranger]

79. So what?

The fact remains that McCain has gone fully negative and can't get above 44%, even with the media making every excuse in the book for him.

Go ahead and panic. I never want to get in the way of someone enjoying an anxiety attack.

- as

[Moochy]

123. Et Voila!

so true, this OP was on the shitlist when shitlists were necessary in GD:P.

[KayLaw]

35. It's disturbing.

I post at a non-political site and the great majority say they will vote for McCain. It's just the media, I guess. I read their posts and shake my head. Most posters believe the MSM is lying about the economy and desperate to elect a Democrat. There are posters there who seem to do nothing but post anti-Obama links. When anyone calls them on a post, they just move on and attack from another position.

[Virginia Dare]

55. Those are the ignorant Ditto heads who will never be moved..

I heard one of them on teevee the other night. A reporter asked him if he would go and listen to Obama speak, and he said sure he would, but he wouldn't believe a word he said. We're wasting our time even trying to go for those votes.

The ones who need to be moved are the independents, and they will be swayed by the economy and energy.

[margotb822]

45. Obama does need to get out there and hammer McCain

but not in the way McCain is doing it. Obama needs to flood the market with his message and get the talk back to the issues. We can't let this trivial shit ruin another election.

However, on a note about the poll. I prefer to look at state polls. As we all well know, the popular vote doesn't win elections, states do. I think that's a better focus than the national polls.

[NewJeffCT]

52. Negative campaigns don't always work

In 2006, veteran Republican Congresswoman Nancy Johnson ran some really over the top negative ads against political novice Chris Murphy - basically, that if you vote for the Democrat, the terrorists would win.

The ads really backfired and she ended up getting swamped in a landslide loss. She had won 11-12 times before that, all but one were by double digits.

[Virginia Dare]

58. Here in Virginia Jerry Kilgore ran an ad..

saying that Tim Kaine would be against the death penalty for Hitler. It was way over the top, people saw that, and it lost a close race for him. Even the chimp showing up at the 11th hour to rally for him didn't help.

[Kokonoe]

54. Don't forget the news is just a script.

What we hear the news storyline and see polls, they shouldn't have anything to coincide with, because nobody is watching.

the fact that polls can swing on a pundit spinning what really happened, proves its fake.

We can outnumber the media with word of mouth.

[Teaser]

62. polling noise

that's all it is.

100 bucks Obama has a 3 point lead sometime in the next 5 days.

Any takers?

[Life Long Dem]

66. Nobody kicks Obama's ass

and we need a new score keeper. Obama doesn't go negative period.

[geek tragedy]

71. Go negative or lose.

His choice.

[ProSense]

75. What are you going to say when he doesn't go negative

and wins?

[geek tragedy]

81. I'll gladly eat crow.

But, right now he's content to act like a punching bag and then whine that John McCain isn't playing fair.

Fuck that shit.

[ProSense]

85. Prepare your appetite.

It's not going to happen. You give too much credit to McCain.

Don't give me crap about 2004 either. Most of the Democratic Party were asleep and the American public were extremely gullible and clueless about the media. Even today, people who should now better are giving the media a pass: either by throwing up their hands or whining that the media is going to deliver the election for McCain. That could be true if people don't stop validating the media's BS.

Even Republicans are growing wary of the GOP.

Some of them are trying desperately to attach to Dems' coattails.

Frankly, I think advocating that Obama go negative when McCain is so clearly desperate and backed into a corner, despite the media spin, is a naive. Who is supposed to give Obama's negative ads mass exposure? The media?

As for all these suggestion about what Obama should be doing (linking Bush to McCain, speaking about issues, etc.), well he appears to be doing just that in his appearance, speeches, ads, etc.

I'm sure if he could figure out how to mention every issue in every speech or statement, he would do that, but then people would be complaining about the length.

[geek tragedy]

89. Well, the damage is being done.

He needs to go on television and get people talking about the Bush-McCain record.

[ProSense]

96. So says you. Obama was on television yesterday and today, and

here you are advising him to go on television.

[politicasista]

103. Thank You! n/t

[KittyWampus]

83. it's not going negative. It's going offense- ALWAYS. Obama had a prime opportunity to kick ass

and totally dropped the ball. He could have forced McCain to apologize for using the troops as political footballs. He didn't.

[my3boyz]

69. Unfortunately I agree. I'm so tired of losing presidential elections. :( It is obvious

that McCain is another Bush but people don't seem to care. They believe the bullshit just like they did when it came from the Bush campaign.

I hope everyone that votes for McCain over Obama looses their job. I want them to lose their home. I want them to have to send their own child to fight in the Bush/McCain war. I want them to not be able to afford to put gas in their car. I usually don't wish negative things like that one people but if people are stupid enough to vote for McCain then I want them to suffer the consequences of their actions.

I had so much faith that were going to win this thing. Obama was great about attacking McCain right after he clinched the nomination and then he just stopped. I don't understand it. It seems like when he is ahead he loses his stide. I fully expect McCain to be in the lead next week if the trends continue.

[uponit7771]

74. Yeap, they don't have to go negative just get the bumper sticker politics together & they do 5 point

...points.

[Nay]

116. I'm with you, my3boyz. I am SICK of listening to the morons at work

talk about how Obama is getting all the media attention, and how they "hate to see the media picking our next president." Huh?? You dumbfucks were perfectly happy with the Kerry swiftboating (how you laughed and chortled!), the Gore "brown suits" and "wooden" and "invented the internet" shit, but now Obama's trip to Europe gets some coverage, and you're upset that the "media is picking the president"? Where the fuck were you in 2000, and 2004? Did you care that the SUPREME COURT picked a president?? Did you care that jiggered voting booths picked a president? Shit, no. You thought that was great.

I also call down disaster, hardship and sorrow on all these sorry, stupid, deluded, lazy, assholes. I almost wish McLame would win (and he certainly may, whatever my wishes) so the disaster would be complete. Maybe when they are in carboard boxes under the bridges they'll see the light. But I doubt it. They are simply too stupid to live.

[ecstatic]

76. After a kick ass week touring the world... I'm still flabbergasted

How can the MSM and the American public be so stupid?

[Nay]

118. You kiddin'? RW morons at my workplace were complaining that

the two days of coverage of Obama's trip amounted to "the media picking our next president." I wish nothing but disaster for all these assholes.

[Buck Power]

77. We NEED your HELP URGENTLY to counter the McCain Bury Brigade at Digg!

Please help us to prevent them from burying yet another damning video by Digging us up!
We NEED you!

Here:
http://digg.com/political_opinion/John_McCain_s_Neverending_War_in_Iraq_2002_present/who

[GalleryGod]

78. If he'd been on the ground..they'd have "fragged" his Rich Boy Ass!

After the Big O whups his cottage cheese ass, he can be a spokesman for Attends!?

[WinkyDink]

80. Going negative works, because people talk about those ads. And since politics is looked at by so

many as just a branch of show-biz, "talk" is the goal.

[Phoonzang]

93. Obama needs to release ads that dissect these attack

ads. They need to point out the lies and inconsistencies in the ads and explain how McCain the "Straight shooter" is trying to manipulate the American voter.

[geek tragedy]

97. No, they need to call John McCain a lying, flip-flopping

Bush clone.

[Milo_Bloom]

94. Looks like no real change from here.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

95. JOHN MCCAIN CALLED HIS WIFE A C**T IN PUBLIC!!

Repeat.

Often.

[book_worm]

98. "The Sky is falling! The Sky is falling!"

[H2O Man]

Exactly.

What a bunch of nonsense. What the heck is wrong with people?

[americanstranger]

105. I guess they've all run so many successful presidential campaigns,

they all know more than the guys who helped Barack win the nomination. :sarcasm:

It's funny - I go on sports boards, and see a lot of people who must know more about how to run a major league team than the guys who are actually paid to to it. After all, they tell me that they do, so they must be right! :rofl:

- as

[H2O Man]

112. If Michael Jordan

had only listened to me, he might have been remembered as one of the great basketball players of all time. But instead, Tucker Carlson says that McCain is the greatest player of all time!

[RayOfHope]

102. Yep. I am so f*cking sick of this. Its discouraging that people are so DUMB. n/t

[RayOfHope]

100. Bullshit. Obama kicked Mcsames ass all over the place. Its the MEDIA, not anything

brilliant on the part of mccsame's campaign.

[Sparkly]

104. I don't get it.

I think McCain made an ass of himself this week.

Did it *really* affect polling?!?

[americanstranger]

106. A daily tracking poll.

No biggie. they move all the time.

Some people are using it as an excuse to retire to the fainting couch and clutch their pearls. ;)

- as

[geek tragedy]

126. He lost his lead in both tracking polls.

Not to mention he was behind in the gallup monthly.

They have no message or strategy at this point, except to whine when McCain kicks sand in their face.

[GoesTo11]

108. Unclear what the long run effect will be

McCain gained a few points in the polls among low info voters, but

1) McCain has shown any Republican leaders with an ounce of decency that he's a sleazeball - could erode some support long run
2) He has played the race card and the going negative card, and you can't unplay them or save them for later, while Obama hasn't dipped into this account at all
3) McCain is giving up his own moral high ground and credibility

All that by Aug 1. There are 3 months left and he's spent his goodwill. Did he squander it or did he get a good return on it? We'll see. In 2000, when * slimed McCain right before the SC primary, he did it right at the last minute because the benefit wears off pretty quickly. On the other hand, in 2004, swiftboating paid off in a permanently defined Kerry. McCain is also spending his money and he can has used up his press loves Obama card.

The thing is, I don't see how this kind of juvenile crap is defining Obama - there's nothing to define from what they're putting out there.

In contrast, what has Obama been doing? Working on long-term credibility
- serious world leader conversations
- actually took the Iraq war completely off the table (and demonstrated great leadership) by bringing everyone to the new consensus of withdrawal timetable and more focus on Afghanistan
- keeps looking serious and honorable by takign the high road
- spends his money building huge on-the-ground presence in 50 states (how little do you think McCain has done of this while doing his stupid ads?)

I think if Obama survives the onslaught, and plays it skillfully, he might be able to turn this week around and McCain can just be crushed between the conventions and the election.

[kurtboss]

113. I Would Have Agreed Until I Saw the Moses Ad

With the Moses ad, he just made himself a farce. But you were right...he was doing well. I don't think he can recover.

[Norrin Radd]

114. Over $4.00 a gallon gas. McSame still loses.

[KayLaw]

115. Quick question

Did this ad appear on McCain's site?

[Political Heretic]

117. Silly.

[doc03]

119. After reading over these comments I realized

I heard all these arguments about taking the hi road and Kerry will out smart them. Wake up there is no President Kerry, he ran a terrible campaign and lost. I know, I know they stole the election. Are you all going to use that excuse again this year? If there is one thing Democrats are good at it's snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Arrowhead2k1]

120. That motherfucker really went negative.

That fucking slimeball!!:mad:

[DuaneBidoux]

121. Totally agree. Let's get as nasty as they wanna' be.

[Moochy]

122. I've never liked much of what you post

and this doesnt change that situation.

Ignore, it's still really useful.

[burythehatchet]

124. Seconded. The crappiest posts and thoughtless musings are always from the same set of dillweeds

[JCMach1]

125. I warned right after the foreign trip that it would be perceived as over the top

especially with the help of a MSM wanting to make this a horse race.

Obama's cave on drilling will be a disaster too. This will hurt in the west, Florida and a few other places. The only place it helps is MI and OH.

[npincus]

127. may John McCain's facial cancer spread all over his body and devour him

completely (except for his $580 Ferragamo shoes).

[galledgoblin]

130. going negative works...

for about 5 minutes. unless McCain is about to change his tune, those ads are about to turn around and kick his ass.