The group urging Obama to pick Clinton as his running mate is closing its doors

[Hope And Change]

“Vote Both” Shuts Down

Thursday, July 31st, 2008

The group http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-07-30-obama-clinton-group_N.htm">urging Obama to pick Clinton as his running mate is closing its doors.

Founders say it’s clear to them Obama plans to choose someone else.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07312008/gossip/pagesix/hillary_in_mystery_powwow_122303.htm">Page Six: Clinton feted by Sen. Feinstein, other women at low-profile gathering at a DC steakhouse.


http://thepage.time.com/2008/07/31/vote-both-shuts-down/">Link

[babylonsister]

1. Good. Let Obama pick someone he's comfortable with. nt

[Hope And Change]

2. Agreed.But as I said before, even if Obama would pick Hillary as his VP I would respect his choice.

[highplainsdem]

3. If she isn't on the ticket, I give him maybe a 50/50 chance of winning. With her, nearly 100%.

I am going to be very angry if he throws away what should be a certain Democratic victory, after eight years of Bush's incompetence, by apparently being afraid he'll be overshadowed by Hillary and Bill. Polling has shown how much she'd help him, and he'd be turning his back on that advantage. And on her supporters. And on the Clintons.

There is no one else he could choose who could do 1/10 as much as Clinton to unite the party.

He already made a gigantic mistake with that FISA vote. Choosing anyone but Clinton to be his running mate will be another.

[my3boyz]

4. How about he just doesn't like her? Perhaps he feels he can't trust her? VP

is more about winning and election. He would have to work with her for 4 years. If he does not like and respect her (she has not earned it in my opinion..the way she attacked his character instead of policies), how in the world would he work with her for 4 or 8 years? I have my favorites for VP but I will support Obama's decision. He is the one that would have to work with them, not me.

[SuperTrouper]

8. What about Bush-41 personally attacking Reagan "voodoo economics"

and implications of warmongering (Ray-Gun) and still got picked by Reagan as VP and having a "working relationship" or Lyndon Johnson's blistering attacks on JFK during their primaries...I think that if we really want to win we can almost guarantee a Victory with Hillary...not with Bayh, Sebelius, Richardson or even Kaine. Barack Obama has a lot of charisma but the reality is that in America the Bradley Effect is alive and well; that is the only explanation why such a flawed and incompetent candidate like McCain still has a shot after 8 dismal, terrible and failed years of Bush-43's Presidency

[my3boyz]

13. The reason McCain is not lower in the polls is

because many still want to believe he is the McCain of 2000. They don't believe his link to GWB. The media is not highlighting it. They are covering for him. When he misspeaks they say "oh he did not mean that" and let it go. They would be doing that regardless of who his opponent is. The media loves him. He is the war hero.

You can't guarantee victory with Hillary. If people are racist they are not going to vote for a black man to be their president regardless of who is on the ticket with him. If they don't trust him with dealing with the war, they are still not going to vote for him. In the end, he would be the one making the decisions. Yes, he has advisors but he would be the one to make the final decision. If they don't feel comfortable with that thought then they won't vote for him. Also, Hillary has a ton of negatives. We don't know where Bill got his library money from. We don't know what type of skeletons they have in their closet. We don't know what could have come up in vetting with them or any other candidate. That is why I say we leave it up to Obama.

Perhaps you don't have to like each other to be running mates. However, Obama strikes me as the type of person that wants to have a good relationship with his running mate. I think he wants someone that he knows has his back (not someone who is planning their run in 2012 if the ticket is not successful). That is why I think Tim Kaine might someone he could pick. Kaine had his back when no one thought he had a shot against the Clintons. Also, he seems to have a decent relationship with Biden. I remember when they tried to bash Biden about saying Obama was clean and articulate Obama said he absolutely did not believe Biden meant it that way and I think he meant it. Someone else I think he is extremely comfortable with is Claire McGaskill (sp???). However, she does not have much experience and it would probably tick Hillary's base off to choose another woman. My point is I think he wants a partnership with someone he is really comfortable with (like Kaine or Claire). Not necessarily those people but someone he has a relationship like that with.

**Also, I'm not so sure about the Bradley affect. It seems to me in many places (West Virginia, Kentucky,etc) people were VERY honest in saying that race had something to do with their decision. They did not try to hide it. They were not ashamed of it. I even think the polls matched up with people in Ohio and PA too. Are there people that won't vote for Barack? Sure. However, I don't think the number is as large as the media thinks. I don't think a lot of people are shy to admit it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. You might search for better analogies -

since Raygun was nearly assassinated by a Bush friend, after which Bushco was really running the country.

The rumors of Johnson being behind the Kennedy assassination still circulate, and are frankly more believable than most the conspiracy theories out there.

1) Should anything happen to Obama in office while Hillary is VP, there would be a fucking revolution. And she would be blamed by ALL sides. Right, left, black, white - there is NO way she could survive it politically.

2) The only person who could rally the RW crazy conservatives to vote for McCain is Hillary. The fundies would believe her to the be anti-christ if she were only a man. The libertarians see it as a way for Bill to get back in the WH. The democractic left thinks she's a RWer; the republican right thinks she's a commie. There is no-one, other than Nader, so universally loathed by so many disparate groups. She's a ticket killer.

[SuperTrouper]

5. I am in complete agreement. Hillary, as bellicose as she was in the

Primarues, is the best option to make sure that we win in November, period.

[babylonsister]

6. You're delusional. Her negatives would lose it for Obama.

Wake up! There are a whole lot of people who don't like the name Clinton and all that means.
Obama is looking towards the future, not the past.
Let it go!

[highplainsdem]

11. That's a myth. The polling consistently showed her doing better than Obama against McCain, and also

shows she'll help him if she's on the ticket.

[babylonsister]

17. A myth in your mind. Whatever. Realistically, I don't see it happening.

Will big dawg be vetted? I don't think so. What's he hiding? If I'm asking, I'm not alone.

[highplainsdem]

21. No, I'm referring to polls. If Clinton was viewed as unfavorably as her critics like to believe,

she would never have done so well in the primary race, and she would not poll so well against McCain.

The Clinton-hating conservatives aren't going to be voting for Obama anyway.

Again, the polls show she would help him as his running mate, and if he ignores that, doesn't choose her, and loses in November, his failure to choose the strongest possible VP will not be forgotten.

[babylonsister]

22. You are full of hooey. So, if Obama doesn't choose her and loses,

it's because he didn't pick her? What if he wins without her? Got any pearls of wisdom about that?

[Captain Hilts]

18. National surveys the last week of May showed her beating McCain by a wider margin...

than Obama.

That said, I don't think he should choose her because it doesn't seem to be his inclination. He should choose someone he wants to work with and is comfortable with.

[babylonsister]

19. The last week of May? History. And I agree, his inclination

isn't going there, and he should be comfortable with his choice.

[highplainsdem]

20. A Rasmussen poll this month showed the same thing. Both Hillary Clinton and Al Gore polled better

against McCain:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/obama_leads_bush_by_twenty_but_clinton_does_better_against_mccain

[babylonsister]

23. Drop it, 'k? nt

[SurfingAtWork]

30. This wierd thing happens if nobody has been campaigning against you for 2 months

Your poll numbers get artificially inflated because the press isn't covering your every gaffe, and surrogates/candidates/media isn't constantly taking pot shots at you.

[ErinBerin84]

7. well, we don't know what's going on.

Maybe she didn't want the job. Maybe the Obama camp wanted the library donors or something. We don't know the full story, so I don't think we can be so "presumptuous" (hahaha) to assume that it was bc he didn't want to be "overshadowed". Maybe he has better plans for her other than a stinky VP job.

[chelsea0011]

9. I don't know if I agree with your %'s but I also think she makes it the strongest possible ticket.

[NYC_SKP]

10. She could have been on the ticket but she didn't want it.

It was all or nothing for her, she made that clear during the primaries and her full-bore attacks on Obama nearly got her the nomination.

But in her full bore assault on winning at any expense, she threw in her chances as a VP pick.

It had to be a conscious decision, all or nothing, she chose nothing.

To deserve a chance as VP, she could have toned down her attacks, been more dignified, acted more presidential.

In her defense, I think her team let her down; that left to her own she'd not have been so nasty, but she was in charge (or should have been) and has to live with the consequences of her choices.

So lets not put this all on Obama, OK?

[dionysus]

14. thats a load...

if you're seeking to super-energize the repuke base, that's the ticket...

[thewiseguy]

24. I honestly dont care how you would feel.

:shrug:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

26. What advantages would she bring?

She wouldn't deliver a state (NY is in the bag already), she turns off many independents and parts of the Democratic base, and she is also a blue-state senator.

Not to mention her appearance in some GOP ads where she attacks Obama for "just having a speech."

It's not like none of her voters won't vote for Obama -- she cleaned up on the Latino vote, but Obama is winning them 2:1 now vs. McCain.

[CakeGrrl]

27. Why are you so convinced that 'fear of overshadowing' is the only thing

preventing him from picking her? There are plenty of practical reasons for him NOT to pick her.

Interesting that you only give him a 50-50 chance of winning...almost the proportion of popular votes. ALMOST.

Which part of that 50% do you plan to be?

[BeyondGeography]

28. Uh, OK...gimme some of that

:smoke:

[LiberalFighter]

12. If Obama was a Governor - Clinton would be a good match.

If Clinton was a Governor and Obama a Senator that would be a good match.

Senator and Senator NO

[Captain Hilts]

15. Good. That's not a good post for her, or Webb, for that matter. nt

[iconicgnom]

25. Good. The primaries are over and there's something off about the move to a campaign for VP

#1 priority is VP have tight working relationship with P, and P's judgement should trump all. So it isn't a position that can be campaigned for in same way as primary campaign for P nominee.

[phoenixriz]

29. Only one reason Hilary COULDN'T be considered seriously

It all came down to Bill refusing to release his donations to the Clinton library. If she wasn't married to Bill and had people with more expertise in running a primary, and knew all the rules, she would probably be our candidate.