IF YOU'RE ABOUT TO MAKE A "WAHH, TIM KAINE IS ANTI-CHOICE" THREAD, READ THIS FIRST!

[monomach]

He is not anti-choice, and if you weren't a lazy mouthbreather, you'd have done 30 seconds of googling to find out on your own. I don't care what you read on Hillary Clinton Forum or Capital Hill or free republic or whatever other Obama-hate site you frequent.

Only in America can a guy get attacked by Republicans for being pro-choice and by Democrats for being anti-choice in the same day.

I have a faith-based opposition to abortion. As governor, I will work in good faith to reduce abortions by:

1. Enforcing the current Virginia restrictions on abortion and passing an enforceable ban on partial birth abortion that protects the life and health of the mother;
2. Fighting teen pregnancy through abstinence-focused education;
3. Ensuring women's access to health care (including legal contraception) and economic opportunity; and
4. Promoting adoption as an alternative for women facing unwanted pregnancies.

We should reduce abortion in this manner, rather than by criminalizing women and doctors.

He says he wants fewer abortions, but that making them illegal isn't an option. How is this bad? If you take issue with the whole abstinence education thing...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/12/AR2007111201716.html

Virginia Gov. Timothy M. Kaine has cut off state funding for abstinence-only sex education programs, citing recent studies finding that teenagers should also be taught about birth control and condoms to protect against pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases.

Kaine (D) submitted plans last month to close a budget shortfall in part by eliminating a $275,000 matching grant for a federal program that provided funds for 14 nonprofit groups that taught abstinence only.

As you can see, when Kaine said "abstinence based," he meant "abstinence-based, but with rubbers because we know the kids are going to fuck each other anyway."

Planned Parenthood didn't mind it one bit.

Planned Parenthood of Virginia, which had lobbied for the change in policy, sent out a statement Monday praising Kaine for joining its nationwide campaign to eliminate abstinence-only programs, which urge youths to refrain from sex until marriage.

"There is no evidence that abstinence-only programs equip teens with the education they need to delay sexual activity or prevent unintended pregnancies or the spread of sexually transmitted disease," said Becky Reid, an organizer for Planned Parenthood Health Systems.

However, if you want to make a "Tim Kaine doesn't even support Civil Unions" thread, you've got a legitimate bitch. Knock yourself out. An enemy of women, he is not. An enemy of gays...yeah, he probably is. All of the research I've done has shown that he stated the only reason he opposed banning gay marriage/civil unions was because some unmarried straight couples would have lost benefits. Bitch about the right thing, at least.

(If you have a quote or a veto record I can't find that shows he supports civil unions, let me know and I'll delete the last paragraph of this post)

[ruggerson]

1. Don't forget stem cells

that's a legitimate bitch, as well.

And I agree, as long as he acts in good faith to protect the legality of abortion, it doesn't matter if he is personally opposed to abortion.

But the civil union and stem cell issues are a problem.

[babylonsister]

2. Do you know what his opinion is of that? Denying

stem-cell research would be hard to deal with for me.

[ruggerson]

4. He wants to ban all public funding of embryonic stem cell research

he believes we should only fund adult stem cell programs. Which is essentially the position much of the far Christian right holds.

http://www.raisingkaine.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=7769

[babylonsister]

7. That is very annoying to me. Very! I have an older man

(son in law) who has a life banking on using stem cells.

Thanks.

[gateley]

5. But could the VP 'deny' the research, babylonsister?

**** OT Which brings up a topic I'm really excited about: I heard a medical researcher talk about stem cell treatments using the patient's OWN stem cells. The results reportedly were even better than with embryonic stem cells. I don't understand why that avenue of research isn't being pursued here in the U.S. -- It sure seems like a win/win to me. :shrug:

[EFerrari]

28. A VP who hold this position would help create an antogonistic environment.

Do we need that?

[gateley]

31. And it's been pointed out to me

(I guess I should say I've been reminded) that if something were to happen to Obama, Kaine takes over (I never think of that for some reason :eyes:), AND, that he'd most likely be the candidate in 8 years.

So I've changed my opinion on this and NOW understand peoples' concerns. :hi:

[EFerrari]

32. I wasn't thinking about that either! And, hopefully, that VP would be

president after Obama completes his second term. :)

[gateley]

3. I'm not an apologist for Kaine, but I honestly don't see how it matters

how the VP personally feels about these issues -- The VP has no clout in changing the laws. And Kaine seems to fully respect a woman's choice, so I would tend to think that if marriage and stem cell research were the laws of the land, he would respect those laws, too. It's not the VP's mind we need to change, it's our reps and fellow voters.

[shraby]

6. It matters because he would be president

if something happened to Obama, so the next in line has to have the values that Democrats care about.

[gateley]

8. You know something, I barely even think of the possibility

of the VP being "a heartbeat away" from the Presidency when it comes to Obama. Maybe because Obama's so young and healthy.

Conversely, I DO think about it re: McCain, for obvious reasons, I guess.

Anyway, thanks for the reminder. :hi:

[monomach]

9. A young VP has the best shot at our next nomination.

Civil Unions should probably matter, because making Kaine the VP makes him the odds-on favorite for our 2012 nomination. I wouldn't vote for him for President in 2012 if he opposed civil unions. Gays deserve to be nagged at as much as I do.

Stem cell research...Meh. I support it, but I can't imagine it being a deal-breaker for my Presidential vote. New cures would be nifty and all, but I don't really care about it. If it doesn't happen, at least we don't end up with everyone living 100 years. We have an overpopulation crisis already. Stem cell research could very well just make it much worse in a short period of time.

[gateley]

10. Yes, and I was just reminded that if something were to happen to Obama,

Kaine becomes President. Your point is well taken, too -- thanks.

[babylonsister]

11. You are very young. God love you, because he

doesn't love my stepson who has been on a walker since he was 33; he's now 36, has three kids, and might die by 50. Why? A disease called Friedrich's Ataxia that he has.

Tell me stem cell research isn't 'necessary'. We need to talk about it more.

[emilyg]

13. I strongly disagree with you about stem cell.

[frog92969]

12. I just saw him on Charlie Rose tonight

I was not amused.

Obama could do much better then this guy.

[babylonsister]

16. What guy? What the hell are you spewing? Kaine? Please. Who might

you prefer? Inquiring minds...

[frog92969]

19. I'm sorry, I thought this was a thread about Tim Kaine

WTF is wrong with you?

[tkmorris]

14. "if you weren't a lazy mouthbreather"

I stopped reading right about there. If you can't even be civil with people it is a safe bet I will find your logic as wanting as I find your behavior.

[monomach]

18. Your tears taste wonderful.

[tkmorris]

24. I aint cryin'

I'm just not wasting any energy reading your argument. Your approach is vile, of the sort one expects from the less-informed and classless members of our society who insist upon having their rather laughable opinions heard in spite of the absurdity in thinking anyone will value them.

It's either that, or maybe it's just that you aren't close enough to smack the snot out of. Definitely one of those.

[monomach]

25. You internet tough guys are the toughest tough guys of them all!

Smack the snot? How frightening!

:scared:

[tkmorris]

26. Hey bud, you're the one who disdained civil discourse

That is precisely my point. People like you feel free to say any damned fool thing because the anonymity of the internet protects you. You wouldn't dare march into a room full of people and start denouncing large swaths of them as ignorant mouth breathers, so why do it here? You do it because there ARE no repercussions, and then you act smug about it.

You are a coward and a cretin. Such are obvious to spot on the internet because they regularly eschew any form of polite conversation in favor instead replacing it with angry frothing at the mouth rants, merely to express an opinion. You see, most of us learned to express ourselves with restraint in the main, reserving anger for those few moments when actual offense is called for. People like you have never learned how to discuss a topic with people who disagree, and are afraid to take a stand IRL because they are usually wrong. Such people on the internet always overcompensate. Like you did in your OP. Then, when someone responds in kind you call them the aggressor. Typical.

Kaine is troubling for a number of reasons. If you disagree that's fine, make your case. But do NOT start throwing your epeen around unless you wish to look the fool.

[mtnester]

29. Yep

spot on

[NorthCarolina]

35. Point well made

and many of us, likely self included, should take note of these wise words.

[monomach]

39. What a load of crap.

I damned well WOULD call a large swath of a crowd ignorant mouthbreathers if they were...WHICH THE PEOPLE ATTACKING KAINE ON ABORTION ARE.

Overcompensation my ass. This post is directed at the PUMA Rethug concern trolls we have posting here. Had you bothered to read it, rather than getting your panties in a twist like a whiny little girl, you'd already know that.

[EFerrari]

27. No kidding. n/t

[napoleon_in_rags]

15. Another thread bashing Sen. Clinton for Kaine.

What's the deal???

[monomach]

17. I didn't bash Clinton. I bashed sites populated solely by Republicans and PUMAs.

[chimpymustgo]

22. Somehow every complaint comes back to Hillary. This is a rude, specious OP.

Some things matter to people. And no matter how vile you act, you can't make us STOP caring about them.

[monomach]

23. Where does Hillary come into this?

STRAW MAN much?

I named anti-Obama sites not affiliated with Hillary Clinton in any way. If you have a problem with their names, send an email to their respective admins.

[comtec]

20. 2. Fighting teen pregnancy through abstinence-focused education

Do I really need to say more?
While he may be for contraception for adult women, he's still doing DICK ALL to prevent the major source of abortions and abandoned kids, and that is SEX EDUCATION!

That condom and the banana worked, WELL!

Under Bill Clinton's sex education program teen pregnancies went DOWN, EVER YEAR!!!

So.. no, I really hope Obama doesn't pick him. We also have to look towards 8 years from now. How often in the last 50 years has a VP NOT gotten the nomination after a president's 8 year term? Off the top of my head, I can't think of one.

so no, I really say NO to this guy, based on his own words, NO!

[monomach]

21. Don't bother readin the post before replying or anything...

Virginia Gov. Timothy M. Kaine has cut off state funding for abstinence-only sex education programs, citing recent studies finding that teenagers should also be taught about birth control and condoms to protect against pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases.

Kaine (D) submitted plans last month to close a budget shortfall in part by eliminating a $275,000 matching grant for a federal program that provided funds for 14 nonprofit groups that taught abstinence only.

[KamaAina]

37. 1. ... ban on partial birth (sic) abortion

by which Kaine presumably means a late-term D&X procedure. The term "partial-birth abortion" is nearly as egregious a deliberate misuse of language as "pro-life" itself. One would hope we could do better for VP than someone who buys into it.

edit: when posting about language, check spelling :dunce:

[LostinVA]

30. watched his debates, I read his literature -- he is anti choice and anti gay rights

There's no "wahhh" (what a ridiculous and insulting thing to write about people with legitimate concerns about Kaine).

I voted for Kaine for Gov, but I do not want him one heartbeat away from the Oval Office.

Oh, and "partial-birth abortion"? Enough said.

I really wish posters would quit equating being against Kaine being VP as some sort to some sort of condemnation of Obama.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

33. I was actually shocked but Rachel Maddow agreed that Kaine would be

a great choice. This is a welcome departure from her usual bitching and moaning about how "unpure" Obama is.

[NorthCarolina]

34. So, how important is the "An enemy of gays...yeah, he probably is" part?

:thumbsdown:

[musicblind]

36. It is very important to me.

It is my number one issue.

[monomach]

38. We're progressives. Has to be pretty important.

Like I said earlier in the thread, if he were our Presidential nominee in 2012 and didn't have a change of heart, I'd not vote for him.

[NorthCarolina]

42. But apparently not so important that we can tolerate that attitude

one heartbeat away from the Presidency. That might work for you, but I'm sorry it's not quite good enough for me.

[monomach]

44. The other choice is worse on the same issue.

A VP who couldn't at the very least support civil unions is distasteful to me.

Unfortunately, we can't sit at home because the Vice President is distasteful when the other guy is so much worse on the very same issue.

At least with Kaine only being the VP, it buys time for Obama to get civil unions passed. There's always the opportunity to vote against Kaine in the primaries of 2012 (or whenever after he assumes office in an Obama incapacitation).

That's why even if the VP were Chuck Hagel, I'd bring my puke bag to my polling place with me and still vote for the Dem.

"Not quite good enough" can become "ok, I guess so" pretty quickly when the other guy is that much worse.

[NorthCarolina]

45. You might have yourself convinced, but I'm not buying it

if Obama believes the LGBT community is expendable because their vote is "in the bag" regardless of his actions as you imply, then I think that is a very naive attitude to take.

[monomach]

46. When you look at it this way...

With a hypothetical choice of Kaine for VP, the race is...

1.
President supports gay marriage: NO
President supports civil unions: YES
Vice Pres supports gay marriage: NO
Vice Pres supports civil unions: NO

2.
President supports gay marriage: NO
President supports civil unions: NO
Vice Pres supports gay marriage: NO
Vice Pres supports civil unions: NO

The vote kind of is in the bag. You can't vote for McCain because Obama's Vice President is a bigot when both McCain AND his VP will be even worse than the aforementioned bigot.

"I refuse to eat that steak because it has grilled onions on top of it. I hate onions. I'm going to eat a bag of raw onions instead."

[NorthCarolina]

47. Luckily for me, I don't look at it that way at all

sorry you do. There are always alternatives, and sometimes it becomes more productive to send a message rather than to allow yourself to be taken for granted yet again.

[monomach]

48. Sending that particular message is NOT productive.

Send enough messages like that and you'll end up seeing a neocon "Let's send all of them there queers to a desert island somewhere" bill.

[NorthCarolina]

49. I'm not going to argue this point with you because at this point it is senseless

Obama has not announced his VP selection yet, and I currently hold the hope that Obama is smarter than to alienate an entire segment of the voting public as he would likely do by selecting an outspoken anti-gay bigot as his running mate. Recall how the LGBT community reacted to Donnie McClurkin joining the Obama tour in SC? Nuff said. You want to keep advocating for a homophobe that's your choice, but I currently believe Obama to be smarter than that, and if he proves not to be then I think that tells the LGBT community exactly how dedicated the candidate himself is to their causes.

[quidam56]

40. NOBAMA 08

KAINE WOULD BE A DANGER TO OUR ENVIRONMENT PERIOD BY SUPPORTING COAL BURNING POWER PLANTS ! MC CAIN looks better every day.....

www.caringbridge.org/visit/timmullins

[sufrommich]

41. McCain is gung ho for coal burning

power plants. So why would he "look better every day". :eyes:

[monomach]

43. What would you like on your tombstone?

Bye bye, PUMA.