Watch this video. Read this article. Do you really think ignoring this is wise?

[madfloridian]

This is the full video of Howard Dean stumping for Obama and for voter registration in Charlotte, NC. The loudest disruption starts about 5 minutes in. It is rude, it is overwhelming. It happened in Raleigh, in Charlotte, in Atlanta, and other places.

Dean's bus arrives in Charlotte, NC

It is so loud, I am ready to stop watching the speech because it is embarrassing to watch Howard Dean being subjected to this.

I posted something here early, got my butt jumped. Deleted it rather than fight.

Not going to fight, just going to post it. This is in the New Hampshire Union Leader for the world to see, yet we are supposed to ignore it here. I have a lot of mixed feelings about that.

We have a chairman who has nearly given up his home life to travel the country and build the party. He was ridiculed by these people and the candidate they supported during the primaries when he stood up for the rules.

I was often told to stop posting about the fiasco in FL and MI. I was told I was wrong when I said it would lead to further division down the line.

I was not wrong. This small vocal, very rude, group is not about to back off and slink away with their tails between their legs just because we ignore them.

This NH woman calls Obama "the paper boy" whom Dean backed. Every one of our Democratic leaders should be outraged, and up in arms. They are not, and they won't know about it if we don't tell them.

Feelings for Clinton still strong across NH

By far, the most scathing criticism of Obama came from Clinton supporter Kathleen Brock of Hampton, who contributed the primary maximum of $2,300 to the New York senator.

"He revolts me," she said of Obama. "He can choose Bugs Bunny for vice president or he can choose God, presuming he doesn't think that he's God. It won't matter."

Brock acknowledged that as an independent, she voted for President George W. Bush in 2000 and 2004, but wanted to see a woman as president and especially backed Clinton's plan for universal health care coverage.

"She's a realist, an experienced, mature person who has the judgment and the strength to be president," Brock said. "And if the campaign was any proof, she can certainly take a lot of flak."

Brock holds out hope that somehow, Clinton will be "acclaimed by the convention" as the Democratic nominee. But if not, "then I'll definitely vote for McCain. I want the Democratic National Committee to get a clear message. The way they treated Hillary in Michigan and in Florida was like gang rape and we were forced to watch it.

"Obama is just some little paper boy that Howard Dean decided to get behind," she said.

That is not acceptable. Ignoring it will not change anything at all. Perhaps giving it the light of day will cleanse some of the dirtiness around it.

Watch the video as long as you can. Dean is fulfilling his dream of campaigning through the South in hopes of making a difference. He is being subjected to a rudeness that is ill-deserved.

[madfloridian]

1. Dean gives them time and listens. He asks then to let him speak.

They don't. He brags about how Hillary is asking people to come together, they keep yelling.

Dean was gracious, they were rude.

[Labors of Hercules]

63. They are not Democrats.

They are self-interested, narrow-minded, fools.

[grantcart]

2. Interesting - they certainly made themselves look ridiculous

What action do you suggest should be taken?

[madfloridian]

3. I am not for sure....but pretending it is not happening is not helpful.

We have done too much ignoring and pretending things were ok when they are not.

I would say that more speaking out is needed from Hillary Clinton and her spokespeople. Even if some of them are not her supporters....many are as we have proven.

[cliffordu]

5. Maybe SHE needs to show up with Dean at a couple of these things.

[madfloridian]

10. Good idea. She needs to see it in person.

.

[knixphan]

57. seconded.

[democracy1st]

6. Exactly what I was about to say the Clintons are quiet on this issue

I wonder why

[cliffordu]

8. Maybe they're waiting for the vote at the convention to sweep Hillary onto the ballot.

[cliffordu]

4. Is anyone sure who, exactly these asses are?? Are they really disenfranchised

Dems or Repub operatives ala "count all the votes" in Fla when Gore lost??

If they are operatives they need to be outed immediately.

[madfloridian]

9. Many are Hillary's supporters angry at Dean because of FL and MI

Not all, but many.

Someone needs to have a chat with them...pronto.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JeffR]

7. I agree with your general point entirely. They should not be ignored.

They should be fought.

But as to the example of the "Clinton supporter" who voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004, she's no loss, because she was never a Democrat to begin with. And good for Senator Clinton, at least, that this wretched woman coughed up the max to donate to her campaign.

[bluestateguy]

11. I'm not going to blame HIllary for these people's lunacy

Let me be very clear about this: I do not blame Hillary for these people's lunacy.

Having said that, at some point she is going to have to do something to rein in these rabble rousing yo-yo's. She is the only person they might listen to.

The bobblehead media loves division stories, and they will give these fools all the time they want to express their bitterness.

[madfloridian]

12. The only blame I put is....

when she began using the FL and MI issues for her benefit. That is when the anger started building.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1992

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1927

[bluestateguy]

13. Obama will ask the Credentials Committee to seat FL and MI 100%

And I think they will.

As far as I know the Republican Party is still carrying out their 50% sanctions agaisnt not only FL and MI, but NH and WY as well. The irony is that the Democrats may well full seat all of their states while the GOP will not.

[NYC_SKP]

15. Amen to that.

And thanks for posting this!

:patriot:

[Radical Activist]

14. I do.

She encouraged this by staying in too long and making so many delusional statements implying she was the legitimate winner even after it was clear Obama won the nomination. This is the natural result of that.

[knixphan]

58. yep

Therefore totally her responsibility to help clean up.

[Arkansas Granny]

26. If these people were willing to listen to Hillary, they would have already

done so and switched their support to Obama as Hillary has and as she has asked the people who supported her to do. As long as these people continue to receive attention and media coverage, they are going to continue to act as they are. I believe that most of them are not Democrats anyway and their numbers are so small that they will have little, if any, effect on the outcome of the election.

[immoderate]

36. I think you are exactly right.

There can't be many of them.

--IMM

[SidneyCarton]

53. The problem here is that Hillary may not have known the passions she inspired.

The danger in whipping people up like what happened during the primaries, is that putting the genie back in the bottle is harder than letting it out. The internet makes this worse, because any number of dead-enders can organize themselves, and be manipulated by Republican operatives.

This may be just the beginning, it is possible that we will see activity like this in every primary to come, PUMA may be a permanent fixture, that will not be Hillary-centric.

[Undercurrent]

16. Hillary needs to clean up the stink she started.

[Spiffarino]

49. She's done what she had to do.

She came out and unequivocally supported Barack Obama. That should have been enough. I can tell you that the Hillary supporters I know have all told me they will vote for Obama over McCain regardless of their feelings for HRC. There's too much at stake.

The only ones left were probably never Dems or are very weak ones who would have fallen away had anybody beaten her in the primaries. They should be actively shunned and, if that doesn't work, constantly derided and humiliated. What they are doing will destroy women's rights for years to come should McSame be elected because of their obstinate stupidity.

[opihimoimoi]

17. K Brock smells....indy my ass, a pub plant more likely

[karynnj]

31. I assume there are independents who voted for Bush both times

but, it is hard to picture an independent, for whom universal healthcare was a big issue, who voted that way. In 2000, she could have been fooled by the compassionate conservative spiel, though Gore was, of course, far better on this issue. But, in 2004, Kerry had an ambitious plan that would have provided access to coverage to over 95% of the population. If this was a big issue for her, why not Kerry?

I do think there were some Republican women who did cross just because HRC was female - but nothing like the 25% once cited as likely by her campaign.

[PinkyisBlue]

72. I agree with you, K Brock is no independent.

Anyone who voted for Bush in 2000 and again in 2004 is not independent, they are just brain dead.

I also believe she is a Republican operative, of the type that fought against the vote recount in Florida. The Repub party is good at telling their members what to do to fight against invasion by the scary liberals, and the Repub members are good at taking directions from their Repub leaders and corporate masters. They are angry that Hillary didn't win the primary because she would have been an easier candidate to beat than Obama.

By the way, the NH Union Leader is a Republican rag.

[elkston]

18. Honestly, some of these people need a big hug from Hillary

She needs to actually go out and embrace these people. She needs to console them as they weep, and say "Its going to be alright ... Its going to be alright. It's not your fault".

Then maybe, just maybe they will quiet down. Not necessarily expecting them to
just switch over to Obama, but at least they won't disrupt or vote for McCain.

No, I am very serious about this. They simply need the opportunity physically bond with Hillary. They've put so many hopes into her, and just having her listen to their frustrations and letting it all come out will do wonders.

[madfloridian]

20. You might have a good point there.

:hi:

[Spiffarino]

50. Maybe that would help

But I contend that Hillary Clinton has done everything she should be expected to do. I blame the stupid people who can't see past their own emotions, but I don't blame HRC at all.

[davidpdx]

19. I think it's pretty disgusting that a small minority of people

are putting up a huge stink. They are disrespectful. It's one thing to practice your first amendment rights, but it's another reason to sit there and scream because your candidate lost.

[faithfulcitizen]

21. If you voted for Bush in 2000=repub...voted for Bush in 04=RW freakshow!

not exactly an "independent" track record. :eyes:

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Frank Booth]

22. This lady, and a lot of the others, sound like they have some serious mental issues.

Seriously, this lady is not healthy and really needs some treatment. It's her prerogative to dislike Obama, but her anger is out of control.

I think part of the reason we're seeing so many of these stories is that, for whatever reason, the media is reporting what some crazy Hillary supporters say about Obama. There are crazy Obama supporters and of course there are many crazy McCain supporters, but we never see their quotes in the paper. For whatever reason the media thinks that deranged ramblings from certain Hillary supporters are valid news.

[bluestateguy]

23. You are correct

Sadly, Obama also had some crybaby supporters (including some on this board) who also would not "take the pledge" to support the nominee even if their man did not win.

[mtnester]

25. May I suggest you get thee to your local Obama office

and do everything you can to get him elected rather than hash this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again

These people are nutjobs.....fringe element idiots... stop obsessing. And yes, you are. Anyone who reads this board can see that clearly.

[madfloridian]

30. At least one is a Clinton delegate.

And another delegate in another state was dismissed because of such stuff.

No, they are not nutjobs.

I was said to be obsessing about the FL and MI primaries, but I was right all along.

This is what is happening because the anger was ramped up about delegates there.

We are in contact with the Obama HQ here, and are very supportive, just as we were for Dean in 03 and 04.

You are wrong to call them nutjobs, and you are wrong to call them fringe or nutjobs. I was called fringe in 2003 because I supported Howard Dean....no more fringe stuff.

[Jakes Progress]

35. Again, we will have to disagree.

I did not call them nutjobs. I said they were being used to stoke up the dead embers of the hate fires from the primary. It seems to be working for them.

[WeDidIt]

27. Two dozen really loud morons does not a movement make n/t

[barack the house]

28. OK, post videos of their actions but let's not give it more attention than that. They want us to..

give them credibility. There is nothing more to say after August really. Their purpose is confrontation if we don't give it them there is no fight. We have to increase the positive energy. If they shout we just pause allow them to say their free speech continue.

[barack the house]

29. They basically want us to fight. Let's not fight. Our chant sould be we love you as Democrats... ->

We must increase the postive to overcome the negative.

[madfloridian]

32. Actually the harassing starts about 4 minutes in.

He was subjected to this across the South.

[Jakes Progress]

33. These jerks are playing us.

It benefits the republicans when they can keep the primary nastiness alive. Obama fans fall for this when they start foaming because of what these plants do. Clinton fans fall for it when they rise to the foaming that this precipitates.

Democrats support Democrats. We need to stop being played and recognize when our patellar reflex is being engaged.

[madfloridian]

34. I think it needs the light of day.

It is the direct result of the FL and MI rulebreaking. It is harmful.

I think far more of them are Democrats than people here admit.

I think personal contact from Hillary would go a long way toward easing hostilities.

[Jakes Progress]

73. So would seeing it for what it is. nt

[frog92969]

37. That's what right wingers do

It is a shame some are pretending to be Democrats but they can slam our people just like we slam theirs. And vote however they want.

I think they should be ignored.
We'll get by, we'll have to.

[paulk]

38. so, what's your alternative to "ignoring" this?

posting about it on DU?

LOL!

Hey you PUMA'S! MF wants to talk to you!

[AtomicKitten]

39. As the stomach turns ....

I think some at DU misunderstand the revulsion to this nonsense. They seem to think it's because we demand Clinton supporters support Obama. That couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, if she got the nod I would have voted third party for president and Dem down ballot. So, I'm good with people voting however the hell they want.

What I'm not good with is the plotting of sabotage of the campaign. Their "activism" consists of pestering the superdelegates in their quest for a coup at the convention. They are planning their own shadow convention and picketing of Dems they perceive to be standing in the Clintons' way.

But the piece de resistance is the forwarding to the McBush camp material imploring them to "take Obama down." That I have a problem with in a big way.

The DU enablers first swore the idea was absurd and now they swear it's no big deal and we should ignore them. I'm calling bullshit on that.

Thanks for your post.

[NashVegas]

40. They Introduced Dean as the Former Gov. of Massachusettes

And in the introducer's dialect, it almost sounds like he says, "register their whore households." That can't have helped.

As for the protesters, this is something the "netroots," DNC and (perhaps more) DCCC brought upon itself. Best to let it play itself out.

[Blue_Tires]

41. a two-time bush voter calls herself 'independent'

what fuckin' ever

[demo dutch]

42. I've have said this would happen from day one especially in the South, but no one on DU has

be willing to accept that this is going to play out as the deciding factor in the GE. These are just the ones that came out, the rest will make their voice heard at the polls

[madfloridian]

43. The most insulting words came from NH. not the South.

.

[demo dutch]

44. Well maybe you haven't been to some of the Dem mtgs in Florida, I've heard plenty!

Go ahead and check in with for example Wexler, how it's been dealing with the Jewish voters on this issue. BTW last time I check Charlotte was in the South!

[madfloridian]

46. Not disagreeing.

My hubby is originally from NJ, and he says racism abounds there as well.

I guess we have to overcome it.

I don't think the group in Charlotte is as much about racism as about not winning.

[eridani]

78. Right, because hardcore cultural conservative nutcases may be racist--

--but no way in hell could they possibly also be misogynists. :sarcasm:

[elehhhhna]

45. So a 2-time Bush voter is now a "democrat"? LMAO

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

51. Yes, ignoring it is wise.

Nobody gives a fuck what some idjits do to Howard Dean on a speaking tour. They're not gonna vote for Obama. Fine. Don't give them any more publicity by engaging them. The fact that they're doing this in the first place demonstrates that they're desperate for attention.

[onethatcares]

52. how much of an "independent" can ms brock be?

seriously, again we have people from the other party telling the Democrats how to go about thier business. Maybe, just maybe, if she voted for Al Gore, or John Kerry, but with a resume' like that, she can jump off a bridge.

[SidneyCarton]

54. Short of absolute capitulation, or all out war with the wrong enemy,

What do we do?

I agree that these people are a problem, perhaps even the avenue from which the swift-boating will come, but what do we do?

[madfloridian]

55. In the video...Dean totally praised Hillary in every way.

Yet in their blogs later they took it the wrong way and blasted him even more though he was courteous to them and praised her.

Can't win for losing.

[Alexander]

56. It's obvious these people are racists. They can't be reasoned with.

We can't ignore racism, but our nominee is a black man and the racists will hate him regardless.

[sourmilk]

59. "acclaimed by the convention???"

Will this actually happen? Will they make a roll call, even though Obama has already won the nomination? Are they OBLIGED to have one?

WTF could they POSSIBLY be thinking? Da-amn!

Some of the other comments and the thinly-veiled (and not so thinly) racism is pretty sickening...

[knixphan]

60. Hmm...Organize a national squad to follow Dean's engagements?

A dedicated anti-idiot team in every location?

[Arugula Latte]

61. Gawd, how I despise these Clinton Crazies.

Yeah, I know, not everybody who wanted Clinton is in that category ... It's probably a rather small bunch ... Still, these nutjobs are just so reprehensible. x( ... F@#$ 'em

[stlsaxman]

62. These are NOT "Clinton Supporters"- they are GOP disrupters with "Operashun Kaos". n/t

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stlsaxman]

70. no, these are flat out ditto monkeys...

stirring up shit and thinking they're important.

[Jefferson23]

64. At the very least Hillary needs to give Dean a prepared message from her own mouth to read to these

desperate people.Maybe even a video message that Dean can play for them at each stop with Hillary addressing the crowd.

[Cha]

74. Yeah, it's gone past the nipping in the bud stage but

this needs to answered by someone whose name is being used as an excuse to take their shit on the road and dump on our Chairman Dean as he is registering voters.

[madfloridian]

80. That might just be a good idea.

A statement from her. I know the bus will be headed west to Denver in August. I will be curious to see how the reactions are in that direction.

[yardwork]

65. Hillary Clinton needs to publicly refute this behavior.

These people are racists. They are using racist code-speak against Obama. I agree that it should not be ignored. It's part of a racist backlash against Obama.

On the other hand, it is not helpful to constantly frame this as the fault of "Hillary supporters." These people are racists, plain and simple. We need to call them what they are and stop blaming Hillary Clinton for their behavior.

[defendandprotect]

66. This is harassment of Dean . . . and who would be interested in that . . . DLC -- ???

The people I'm aware of in the party working against Dean is the DLC ---

When the notorious "scream" tape went on, was the DLC defending him or happy that

he was being knocked out----????


Are these people going to show up at Obama events and harass him?

I doubt it ---


THIS is very specifically directed at Dean --- think about it!

[madfloridian]

68. You are correct. It started in the primaries.

When he stood up to enforce the party rules.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1992

This anger now is stemming from the two states breaking rules.

[defendandprotect]

69. ....and who's profiting ...? It's intended to make Dean look bad ---

As we seek to rid ourselves of the DLC --- they seek to establish themselves more firmly ---

and Dean is certainly their enemy ----

[madfloridian]

81. FL Dems even told Dean not to plan a vacation here.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com:80/madfloridian/1902

He is not welcome here. It has been an ugly time in our party's history. He is the target because he stood up for the rules.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

71. It is so outrageously classless

to shout over a speaker whether you agree or disagree. But I do agree with those who say this leaks into a DLC/DNC issue as well as Barack/Hillary. Dean got and continues to get the shaft big time from the DLC, but has remained completely steadfast in working his behind off to get Democrats back in the White House and Congress. How many other public figures could have stood up there with the grace that he did? With another month to go, I hope our convention goes off without a hitch and that we look damn united.

[Bonobo]

75. They should NOT be given the attention they seek. Ask any parent with a spoiled child.

They need to be ignored. You are entirely wrong.

Their behavior would only be justified further in their minds, if concessions are made.

Let them howl. They are howlers.

[madfloridian]

76. I think I would leave it alone, if they were not targeting Dean every stop.

It simply is not fair. No one has been saying that...it is not fair.

So I am saying it.

[Bonobo]

77. I gave again to the DNC again tonight.

$35 painful bucks.

And I will keep doing it because Howard Dean is kicking ass and making me proud.

You're right. It isn't fair. But what the hell is these days?

[The Wizard]

79. Republican plants

right out of the Atwater/Rove/Goebbels play book. They should be confronted with prejudice. Throw flaming bags of dog shit at them.