I am so sick and tired of hearing about the "Jewish Vote"

[Hippo_Tron]

As a person of Jewish background (although not currently practicing) I'm quite disappointed that many DUers are taking the media perception of the "Jewish Vote" at face value. I'm used to this shit coming from the mainstream media in order to help McCain, but I'm not used to DUers believing it.

So I think it's time we cleared up a few things...

The mainstream media has created a perception of the "Jewish Vote" as follows

1) Jews vote in a bloc

2) The primary issue for Jewish voters is Israel

3) Jewish Americans' politics closely reflect the politics of the people of Israel

4) Joe Lieberman is the one and only spokesperson for all Jewish Americans

5) Jewish Americans don't trust Barack Obama

Not only is all of this complete bullshit, but this is a narrative that obviously designed to help McSame.

Here's the truth. First of all there are three main sects of Judaism. Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox. Orthodox Jews adhere to traditional practices the most, Reform Jews adhere to them the least and Conservative Jews are in the middle. Most of the Jews in the United States are Reform or Conservative.

Orthodox Jews are going to tend to be politically conservative just as those who adhere to more traditional religious practices in all faiths are going to tend to be more politically conservative and thus they will be more likely to vote for McCain.

The notion that Jews are single-issue voters all about Israel is just plain false. What the media wants you to believe is that George W Bush has somehow managed to win over Jews because the neo-con agenda is good for Israel (even though it isn't).

Again, Orthodox Jews are more likely to be very concerned about issues related to Israel and cast a vote based on issues related to Israel than Reform or Conservative Jews are. But the notion that the Republicans have suckered tons of Jews over to their side is crap.

Regarding number three, there was a recent thread here with a poll that showed McCain was leading Obama by 20 points in Israel. I would respond to this the same way that the Republicans respond to polls that say Obama would kick McCain's ass in Canada or Europe. Yet somehow because it's Israel, we all somehow feel the need to analyze it and see if it predicts how Jews in the United States will vote.

Joe Lieberman is a self-appointed neo-con asshole who speaks for nobody but himself. Ned Lamont got 40% of the Jewish Vote in the 2006 Connecticut Senate Election which is the exact same percentage he got of the total vote.

Furthermore the media parades Lieberman around to create the perception that the average Jewish Democrat must be more hawkish and socially conservative than the average Democrat. Of course they never mention that some of the most liberal congressmen and senators like Russ Feingold, Barbara Boxer, and Robert Wexler are also Jewish.

And finally I think it's obvious by now that the fifth myth is a result of the other four. Obama has no problem with Jewish voters. He will probably win a larger percentage of the Jewish voters than he will of the total vote. He will probably not win Orthodox Jewish voters and he will probably not win Jewish voters over age 60. But again, he will probably not win among fundamentalist Christians either and he probably won't win among people over age 60, period. The fact that they are Jewish will have nothing to do with it.

[BlooInBloo]

1. Uh... there was an article today or yesterday telling us that Obama fares better with Jewish folks..

than Lieberman does.

(No, I don't remember where I saw it - perhaps a DUer with a better memory does.)

[Hippo_Tron]

3. The thread is here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6527458&mesg_id=6527458

But I wasn't pleased by the comments on the thread. They seemed as though this is something we should be surprised about and that maybe "Jews are finally seeing the light".

[BlooInBloo]

4. Ah - gotcha - I'm outta the loop - been at work.

[Bjorn Against]

11. I posted that thread, and I agree with you.

The results of that poll did not surprise me at all, but they do go against the very stereotype that you describe. I think the media has taken this idea that "support for Israel" is of primary importance to Jewish voters, and then they try to interpret an entire foreign policy platform from that. I have spoken with many Jews however, and their positions on the state of Israel vary quite broadly. Support for Israel does not mean they agree with the policies of the Israeli government, and many of them that I have known have been very opposed to the agenda of AIPAC.

The media likes to make certain groups of voters monolithic. As a working class white voter I am told that Obama can't connect with me, but I can tell you right now that analysis is false. Our pundits like to break everything down and simplify things by saying that this group supports this person, and that group supports that person, but it is almost always far more complicated than that. I generally don't like polls of that nature, but I decided to post the one related to Obama and Lieberman because I thought it broke a common myth and it showed that quite often the truth is a lot different than what the media narrative tells us.

[Cha]

22. The media wants to manipulate

the idea that Jewish voters are single issue with Israel as their primary concern..it ties in better with their whole war agenda.

[grantcart]

2. Filled with common sense - kinda too bad we have to explain the obvious

[Hippo_Tron]

5. Thank-you, good to hear someone shares my frustration

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

6. I completely agree with you, Hippo_Tron (fellow member of the tribe, too).

[cliffordu]

7. My best friend of 35 years - who happens to be Jewish, says trying to lump

the Jewish community together on any issue is idiocy, because:

"I never saw two Jews agree on anything. That's why I left New Jersey. Thinking about it, that's why my wife left me..."

Ba dum dum.....

[mucifer]

8. the Daily Show's take on the Jewish vote:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=177061&title=baruch-obama


This really cracked me up.

[scarface2004]

14. that s funny!!

daily show kicks ass!

[progressoid]

34. Wyatt did a great job keeping a straight face!

Cracked me up too but was a little disturbing too.

[defendandprotect]

9. Glad you posted this . . ..

I heard recently that there was a new group forming of liberal Jews in America --

Most of all I think that we armed right-wing religiously fanatical Israel --

and then took it over as our entre into the Middle East --- we're controlling much

of it now!

Liberal, peace-loving Israelis have been buried by the radicals controlling Israel.

Those who gave the world the assassination of Rabin --- "Murder In the Name of God!"

[newmajority]

10. I think of the Rabin assassination as being "Israel's JFK"

The right wing here didn't want JFK ending Vietnam before it really started, and they blamed him for not overthrowing Castro.

The Israeli right wing knew they would never see power again, if Rabin made a deal with Arafat.

And neither country has been the same since these respective murders. :(

[defendandprotect]

12. "Israel's JFK" . . .

All of what you are saying here is very important as far as our two countries understanding

one another.

Jewish people have a long-feared love of justice - progressive ideals --

not unlike American liberals.


They've been betraying peace-making here going back to Ike and the Paris Summit/U-2 . . !

We have a run-away CIA --- what of your Mossad?


Now . . . no pretense . . Bush simply appears and rips up the anti-nuke agreement !!!

[DogPoundPup]

13. "Israelis are strong supporters of John McCain"

By Tobias Buck in Jerusalem

Published: July 23 2008 03:00 | Last updated: July 23 2008 03:00

Afghanistan and Iraq are two of the most dangerous countries in the world. Yet to Barack Obama, it could well be Israel that has the highest risk profile during his tour of the Middle East and Europe.

The Democratic candidate for the US presidency arrived in Jerusalem last night after visiting the two warzones and a brief stop-over in Jordan. Today he is to meet Israeli and Palestinian leaders, and travel to the West Bank and Sderot, the Israeli town that has been the target of frequent rocket attacks by Palestinian militants. He has meetings with Ehud Olmert, Israel's prime minister, and Mahmoud Abbas, president of the Palestinian Authority.

Mr Obama knows that every word he utters today will come under intense scrutiny. Close support for Israel has become not so much a policy choice but an article of faith for most US politicians and voters.

Any indication that Mr Obama would break with the passionately pro-Israel stance of the Bush White House would not only sour relations with his Israeli hosts, but could create a backlash among American Jewish voters, who traditionally favour the Democratic party, and with evangelical Christians, a bastion of Republican support.

If Israeli public opinion is anything to go by, Mr Obama has a lot to prove. Unlike voters in Europe, who overwhelmingly favour the Democrat over his Republican rival, Israelis are strong supporters of John McCain. One recent poll put Mr McCain ahead by 26 points, another by nine points.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2f7ce3c0-5850-11dd-b02f-000077b07658.html

[Rosa Luxemburg]

25. Israelis are not familair with Sen Obama yet

give them time

[L0oniX]

15. I really think we should be hearing more about the Irish vote.

:evilgrin:

[Hippo_Tron]

16. Well Obama sounds a lot like O'Bama

So I think he's got a lock on that demographic

:crazy:

[newmajority]

23. I'm reasonably sure that he has Bono's endorsement

[Behind the Aegis]

17. Very well done!

Hopefully your post won't fall upon deaf ears.

[Hippo_Tron]

19. Me too, but it's GD:P and substantive threads tend to die here

One rec away, so we'll see.

[Canuckistanian]

18. The "jewish vote" should be distinguished from the "Likudnik vote"

There is NO common consensus about America's role and consequences in Israel.

Why should we assume that they are the same in America?

[Hippo_Tron]

20. While that is true, diverging view points over Israel weren't my main concern

My main concern was the perception that American Jews will vote based on their feelings about Israel and not based on their feelings about other issues. That is the first and most common misconception.

As I said, Orthodox Jews will be more likely to do so. But even then, that's far from the only reason I could see McCain doing well with Orthodox Jews.

You're talking about a segment of a religion that has men and women to sit separately during worship and requires women to go to a special bath house after they have their period. If a Democrat running for any office were to win the majority of that vote it would be the exception, not the rule.

[babylonsister]

21. I am, too, but only because it was posted so often. I didn't read one. nt

[jillan]

24. Excellent post. It's funny, because I'm Jewish and my relatives are all diehard Dems who

don't want to see Israel be the core of our wars.

Jewish people, like many other minorities, are often stereotyped.
It's pretty insane when you hear people project their prejudices upon you.

[crimsonblue]

26. but but....

if we don't listen to every crazy demand of the Israelis... then you know what will happen... I wonder how much of the problems in the middle east could have been avoided had Israel chosen to follow the UN mandate and not steal more land than they were appropriated and no force millions of palestinians to be refugees at a time that the palestinians were sympathetic to jewish concerns until the Israel government stole their land.

[TexasObserver]

27. Obama will get at least 65% of the Jewish vote.

That's something most pundits know, but you'll seldom hear that said on TV punditry.

The only issue is whether he'll get 65% or 75%, which would mean he's reaching those older, very pro Israel, often retired Jews who lean away from Obama for a variety of reasons, none of which have to do with their being Jews, and all of which have to do with their being conservative, older white people.

[CitizenLeft]

28. the last poll I saw had him at 67%...

I didn't know Barbara Boxer was Jewish. Love her!

[TexasObserver]

29. I've seen it polled throughout the year, and it's always been close to 2/3

But to hear the punditocracy expound on it, you'd think he's getting 20%.

[CitizenLeft]

30. I know, I heard it today... "Obama's problem with Jewish voters"

What crap. I swear, I'm not sure I'm going to survive long enough to vote in November, they drive my blood pressure sky high.

[Hippo_Tron]

36. I think Obama being our candidate only accounts for a small amount of it

As I said in the original thread, Orthodox Jews are extremely socially conservative. As far as I know they didn't go for Kerry in 2004. They went for Gore only because Lieberman (an Orthodox Jew himself) delivered them. They are a constituency that voted consistently Democratic in the past just as socially conservative Catholics often did. But with the rise of the culture wars it has become a different ballgame.

I think that Orthodox Jews have stayed in the Democratic Party longer than socially conservative Christians because until recently the Religious Right chose to hold on to their antisemitic beliefs instead of courting them. With the rise of groups like John Hagee's Christians United For Israel, we're now seeing the religious right try to woo over Orthodox Jews. And while Israel is the supposed uniting premise I think it goes far beyond Israel.

Hagee's support of Israel is his way of saying "Hey Orthodox Jews it's okay, us Christian fundies aren't antisemitic anymore. You guys are anti-choice and homophobic like we are, so why don't you come join us?"
Not that all Orthodox Jews are anti-choice and homophobic by any means, but they are far more likely to be than more secular Jews.

[Skittles]

31. thanks for speaking out, Hippo

:thumbsup:

[RNdaSilva]

32. Thanks...

[crankychatter]

33. I stated in a thread yesterday that when we repeat MSM meme's on this issue it borders on defamation

no room for No Text

thanks for educating folks

[progressoid]

35. What about the nonreligious vote?

:shrug: There are more atheist, agnostics, secularists in America than Jews.