My .02 on the Swift Boat Smear. (Image)

[HarveyBriggs]

Here's to all the heros who have sacrificed for their country, no matter what their political views.

Harvey

<>

[MidwestTransplant]

1. That's great!

[union_maid]

2. That is really great

You should send it someone to post on a prominent site or something. Very powerful.

[HarveyBriggs]

22. Where?

[union_maid]

31. Not sure, but maybe Will Pitt could suggest a place

I think I'll put it on my blog, but that's hardly prominent. More like a well kept secret. Still, it makes a hell of a statement and I'd like to see it spread around.

[Malva Zebrina]

3. that is great

is it OK to copy?

[HarveyBriggs]

8. On one condition ...

Send it to every Republican you know.

Harvey Briggs

[incapsulated]

4. Two Thumbs Up!

Love it! :)

[Catfight]

5. I guess the soldiers in the Iraqi war can expect the same thing from Bush!

[A_Possum]

10. The parallels to Abu Graib/Iraq are eerie

You bet if any soldier comes back from Iraq and tries to speak out, they'll be smeared from here to kingdom come.

[Lefty48197]

6. Amen. Thank God we didn't nominate Jesus Christ either

because they'd drag him through the mud too.

[Pirate Smile]

9. He would be too SENSITIVE.

[nyhuskyfan]

11. No doubt

Jesus would have been labeled a "tax and spend" liberal, and when he gave the speech on the senate floor about a camel passing through the eye of a needle, they'd have screamed "Class Warfare!" They'd have also probably said that he had an indistuigished career as a carpenter.

[blondeatlast]

14. Not to mention gay and a dabbler in Wicca... nt

[The White Tree]

51. Speaking of a gay and heroic imagery

Another huge image of heroism in our country - the heros of flight 93 was powerfully (I thought) given a proper perspective by Melissa Etheridge in her last album - "Lucky" in a song called "Tuesday Morning"

Here is an excerpt of the lyrics which can be found at the link:

<http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/melissaetheridge/tuesdaymorning.html>

Now you cannot change this
You can't erase this
You can't pretend this is not the truth

Even though he could not marry
Or teach your children in our schools
Because who he wants to love
Is breaking your God's rules

He stood up on a Tuesday Morning
In the terror he was brave
And he made his choice and without a doubt
A hundred lives he must have saved

I think this is a great message. I don't know if it is true though but even if it weren't I can easily see how it could be.

[blondeatlast]

7. Awesome stuff. Thanks for sharing! nt

[Terran]

12. That is excellent!

If you don't mind I'll spread it around!

Dirk

[David Zephyr]

13. Kudos to HarveyBriggs!

I hope this gets some play beyond here at the DU.

Thanks HB! :)

[gollygee]

15. Can I use that?

I'd like to email it around and post it a couple of places if it's OK with you. It really is great.

[HarveyBriggs]

16. Yes ...

Frankly, I think the Dem Strategists have messed up in making this personal between Bush and Kerry.

Make it an attack on every hero, and make the point that Bush & his friends would do it to anybody who disagreed with him, and they speak to a larger audience.

IMHO, the flag/ GOD image is the kind of thing the right has exploited for years; and they do it because it resonates with the NASCAR dad audience.

I'd be honored to see this become an internet legend -- and that's just the lo-res version.

Thank you for your kind words.

Harvey

[tishaLA]

17. Wonderful!

I'm spreading it far and wide, too.

[incapsulated]

18. This would make a great t-shirt

By the way... :)

[Richard D]

19. Brilliant!

[Stew225]

20. You are a freaking

genius!!! Great job!! You gotta get this seen!

[the Kelly Gang]

21. fantastic !!!

[NJCher]

23. that is damn clever!!

I love what a picture and a few well-chosen words can do.

Thank you for this contribution to the cause.


Cher

[MadMichDem]

24. THIS would make a great bumper sticker!!

Really gets to the heart of the matter! I love it and want one for my car!

[gollygee]

26. Oh wow yeah that would make a fabulous bumper sticker!

[Walt Starr]

25. BRILLIANT!!!

OUTSTANDING!!!!

[JPJones]

27. That ROCKS! n/t

[stevedeshazer]

28. Unbelieveable. A stake in the heart.

Harvey, this just might change the world.

Thanks.

[NegSpin]

29. Identifications

From left to right: Traitor, Unstable, Short-Term Service, Big Plans for Political Office.

[spanone]

30. That's More Than Two Cents Worth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NewJeffCT]

33. not to mention

The way they planted the flag is really a strange pagan ritual and a secret tribute to communists

[union_maid]

32. Do you think you could do a slightly bigger one?

I've been showing it around and some people want to print it out and use it on car windows, etc.

[RetroLounge]

34. Please send this to Bartcop

I'm sure he'll put it on his website...

and maybe you should send it to Bob Dole too, the old coot..

RL

[Julien Sorel]

35. What can I say except two thumbs up, way up!

[Bozita]

36. Just sent a link to Peter Werbe -- streaming show starts at 11pm EDT

www.wrif.com

[Karenina]

37. Yo Harvs

Yo muse be workin' overtime w/o pay! ;-) Brilliant!

[Sugarbleus]

38. JEBUSS!! This is Fantastic!! It HAS to be seen and copied!

Very well done HB :yourock:

[seabeyond]

39. these need to be hung across the nation,..........NOW

excellent. get them to the local committees and lets put em up

[iwantmycountryback]

40. That is amazing

I think I'm going to take the liberty of spreading that around.

[WillyT]

41. Fantastic Work Harvey !!!

Simply excellent!!!

:toast:

[ljm2002]

42. It's a keeper!

That is EXACTLY the kind of thing we need to get out there.

Someone, please say you can make tee shirts out of this -- and DU should sell them. Or the Kerry campaign should, or moveon.org, or... someplace with big exposure.

That is fan-f***ing-tastic! :yourock:

[geek tragedy]

43. Brilliant!

This should get circulated.

[Judi Lynn]

44. This has a real impact. It's outstanding.

I think it hits on several levels. So well done. Congratulations, HarveyBriggs.

Great seeing your posts at D.U.! :hi: :hi:

You don't want to hurt his feelings, you know! We don't want to get him upset.

[WillyT]

45. Kick For Those Who Missed This !!!

:kick:

[wellstone dem]

46. and kicking again.

[LTR]

47. Excellent graphic!

Mind if I use it, possibly in a sig?

[Richardo]

48. That's the best rebuttal I've seen yet...

Beautiful! I normally don't send political spam, but I can tell you that I'm putting that on "Reply All" for every 'swift boat' e-mail I get.

Thanks Harvey! :thumbsup:

[The White Tree]

49. Intended Irony?

I was curious if you selected this image intentionally because it was actually the second flag raising at Iwo Jima that day and was not actually done under enemy fire. Additionally, there was some controversy about whether the image was "posed". Here are some links I found about the first flag raising at Iwo Jima (hope I did that right):

<http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/iwoflag.htm>

The photograph at the right of Marines raising the American flag at the summit of Mt. Suribachi during the battle for Iwo Jima has become an enduring image of bravery and heroism. However, this was actually the second flag raised on the mountain's summit that day. The first flag-raising occurred a couple of hours earlier - shortly after Marines had gained the top of the mountain after hard fighting. This flag was deemed too small to be easily seen from the base of the mountain so a second, larger flag was raised.

<http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/6350/flag2.htm>

Rosenthal took 18 photographs on Iwo Jima that eventful day.****** Among them was a shot posed by men of the 28th Marines around the flag. When queried a few days later by his wire service picture editor as to whether "the flag raising picture" was posed, Rosenthal, unaware of which picture had had the sensational reception in the United States, thought the editor meant the one which actually had been posed. Out of Rosenthal's affirmative reply to the editor grew the misconception that the flag raising picture was posed.

The testimony of Rosenthal himself and of eyewitnesses who survived the battle, however, attest that the flag raising photograph was in no way rigged. As Rosenthal put it, "Had I posed that shot, I would, of course, had ruined it. I'd have picked fewer men...I would also have made them turn their heads so that they could be identified for AP members throughout the country and nothing like the existing picture would have resulted."*******

So I guess if any of these guys ever did run against Bush we'd be subjected to attack adds from the group, "Flag Raising Veterans for Truth". Then again maybe we are.

Peace.

[deutsey]

50. Unfortunately, three of them were killed in action shortly afterward

I'm sure the Busheviks would probably say that they killed themselves just to ensure their heroic status.

The other Marines who survived went all the way to Iwo Jima to fight in one of the bloodiest battles of the Pacific theater just for a photo-op.

:puke:

[HarveyBriggs]

52. You got inside my head White Tree.

You asked.

In considering my options for the statement I looked at a lot of different options.

I started with wanting to make the point that it is wrong to politicize the efforts of those who sacrifice for this country in combat. That started before the whole Swift Boat mess, when my nephew -- the grandson of a nearby Dem Party county official -- returned from serving in Iraq and was called a traitor by some local slime balls simply because he was known as a Democrat. This kid served honorably and it was just plain wrong to do that.

I first began thinking of other political figures who served their country bravely. In my research, my first choice was George Washington and his not-too-swift boat's crossing of the Delaware. Would we be free if there were these slime groups then? Another choice was a wonderful old image of Teddy Roosevelt in his Rough Riders outfit. Would George W. Bush say his charge up San Juan Hill was a bunch of "Bully?"

But those were political figures. And did I want this political statement to be THAT political? Could this image reach out and be more appealing to the middle and the other side? Would those historic personalities get in the way? I'm sure those other images and ideas would be valid, but was there an image that more reflected the average person? Could I make it more about the crime Bush is commiting against all service people in his attack on Kerry? And that's what took me to Mt. Surabachi.

I actually tried the first photograph first -- the ones with the solider with the gun in the foreground. In terms of dimensions it was a bit tall for the layout. Then, I thought only the history buffs would recognize the original photo for what it was. There is a reason the second photo became so iconic, and the photographer points that out in his discussion of whether or not the photo was posed. If it was posed there would have been fewer people used, and he would have shown faces for identification. Therein lies the appeal of this image -- aside from the struggle of victory, the photo shows teamwork, and it shows a relatively anonymous group. These guys could be anybody -- your dad, your brother, your uncle, your son. And I believe that's why this photo is so popular.

Even the irony you point out works here. While it's known by enough people that this was not the original photo, that fact is not enough to discredit the power of this image, nor those involved. So it lives an an American icon, and a source of great pride for our Armed Services. It is beyond reproach. And so should be the service records of our combat veterans.

Two of the greatest tragedies of Viet Nam were the politicians' insistances of micro-managing that war, and their willingness to shirk their responsibilites for ther decicions and allow our combat soldiers to shoulder the blame. Hadn't the soldiers suffered enough: did they need to also suffer the guilt involved by these mistakes?

I lived through that time. I remember the pain that war caused. I knew SDS activists, and I knew vets, and I was depressed beyond description to see this great division that was caused by this war and those politicians.

George W. Bush is doing it again. He took the trust of 90% of this nation's population and divided us with his hatreds and ambitions. That is wrong.

One final thing. I like the way the flag flies across the word God, because that appeals to the other side -- I can see this inside a Republican's trailer in Kentucky, And I like the way that God is bigger than Bush -- because that fact seems lost on the jerk.

Sincerely,

Harvey Briggs

[The White Tree]

54. Wow - Serendipity - you got into my head too

Let me explain. I don't post much on this board but come here every chance I can to read and learn. I don't post much because I really try to take some time to put thought into what I do say and because it is so easy for people to misunderstand sometimes. Usually I visit DU from work and I just don't have the time with everything else to participate the way I'd like to.

Today was one of those days where I guess I just had something in me to say because in addition to the two posts on this thread, earlier this morning I wrote a letter to the New York Times in response to the following Op-Ed (registration required) from a marine major in Najaf (this was in the "liberal" New York Times and I feel about almost as close to a propaganda piece as anything I've ever read in there):

<http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/23/opinion/23butler.html >

excerpt:

When critics of the war say their advocacy is on behalf of those of us risking our lives here, it's a type of false patriotism. I believe that when Americans say they "support our troops," it should include supporting our mission, not just sending us care packages. They don't have to believe in the cause as I do; but they should not denigrate it. That only aids the enemy in defeating us strategically.

I can send you my response but I am hoping that maybe they'll publish it, even though I haven't got a call yet.

At any rate in crafting my response I too was thinking about George Washington. I think if George Washington acted like George Bush then our experiment in democracy would have failed miserably. Indeed, I fear that he is pushing it willingly toward failing. What the president and this marine don't seem to understand is that loving freedom is more than just the willingness to die for it.

Loving freedom means the willingness to live for it and to work to help others live for it regardless of their views. Democracy requires us to take the hard road, not the easy one.

I see this in some ways in John Kerry. He chose to go to Vietnam to fight for freedom. He learned first hand the failings of the war and he chose again to do something courageous, to speak out. If he was really in it just for the himself he could have gone either way, like some of the people who are accusing him now. He chose the way he felt was right. People may disagree with what he did in both cases but it does not deserve to be denigrated it deserves to be honored.

Anyway, I thank you for your response and am glad to see how much thought you put into your statement. I think it is a great one and wish it much success. I am sorry about what happened to your nephew, it is another stupid irony of the "patriots" (or is it "patrinuts") in this country who can't understand how you can serve you country and not always agree with it's leadership (unless of course when they disagree with the leadership).

Sincerely,

The White Tree

[MadMichDem]

53. I just printed and

taped it to the back window of my car. Should stay there until it rains or someone rips it off. Wish I could make it bigger, though. Hard to read unless you're right next to it. It has such a powerfull message!!!

Thanks, Harvey!!! :thumbsup: