Help! My son thinks Obama will tax us to pay UNCF!

[Tigress DEM]

He says he saw it on CNN! WTF?

All I can find is that Obama donates a major portion of his charitable dollars to United Negro College Fund.

I don't watch much Cee No News except 360 with Anderson Cooper sometimes.

He got onboard with Hilary because he could see Hill n Bill getting the job done, kid lives in the U'Per .. MI Upper Penninsula.
But now he's decided he won't vote cause she's not in and he will never vote for a "black man" that will make "WE the People" pay for blacks to have free college while whites still can't get in.

I know it's all a smear and I did not raise him that way. He has always had black friends and the only blacks he didn't like were people who gave him cause... fist in the face etc... even some of those he worked it out with later.

BUT he doesn't want ANYONE forcing him to pay anyone else's way when he's barely making it himself.

Does anyone have the facts about this smear?

I got him off of FAUX news but CNN is sometimes just as bad.

[liberalmuse]

1. I don't get it.

All I hear from conservatives these days is that 'Obama is the biggest tax-and-spend liberal we've ever seen'. So basically, they'd rather have someone like Bush in the WH completely fucking up the economy, with the average American struggling to make ends meet while his cronies and large corporations feast on our tax dollars like pigs at the trough, over a decent economy where these same pigs actually have to pay taxes for a change. The average American does quite well with a 'tax-and-spend' liberal in the White House. It boggles the mind.

[liberalmuse]

3. I'm sorry about the post above...

This should have been posted on another thread. I agree with the other poster in that it's best to check with Snopes before taking anything like this at face value.

[Tigress DEM]

23. It must be new, nothing on snopes yet.

Anyone have an account there to get this debunked?

I can check if my husband does, I know he reads it a lot and passes on info to the less informed of some of our other relatives.

[Tigress DEM]

60. UPDATE son admitted he heard if from a friend - NOT CNN.

FOR the general DU audience as some mis-perceptions have happened.

Son is not a conservative. He is a Hillary supporter.
Son knows better than to listen to swill rumor, so he covered himself.
Son SAYS a lot of dumb stuff, but usually does the smart thing.
THIS I have seen over and over and over in 25 years of his life.

Even those of you who have blasted the hell out of me here. I appreciate that you are here and you spoke up. Thanks.

[monomach]

69. If your son believes everything " a friend" tells him, he's a goddamned idiot.

If he were my kid, I'd probaboly punch him in his stupid face.

[Tigress DEM]

71. Sometimes kids are idiots. I didn't say he believes EVERYTHING, though.

I hope you don't have kids if punching them in the face is your answer to them being stupid. That is called child abuse and most of us here on DU don't abuse our children or other people for that matter.

[monomach]

75. If they're old enough to vote, it's not child abuse.

[Tigress DEM]

77. NO it's assault and battery. n/t

[hobbit709]

2. Snopes.com

[Tigress DEM]

16. Does not have anything on it yet.

Many Obama myths are debunked though.

[Warren Stupidity]

4. You might ask your son where he got this information.

It is pretty hard to prove that Obama has not said something, on the other hand it is relatively easy to prove that he has said something.

Your son is ashamed to say that he cannot vote for an african american and is making up excuses to shield his obvious racism. You might just want to work on that rather than playing 'fact gotcha'. Just bring it out in the open. Then work on the common interests between working people of all colors stripes hair-styles genders religion dietary preferences etc. Obama represents the best chance for our government to represent and serve the interests of working people, McCaint represents the interests of the vastly wealthy corporate elites.

[Tigress DEM]

5. He said he saw it on CNN

He is also probably getting a lot of stupid talk from the beer crowd.

Where he lives he would be the only one speaking up for Obama. He did it for Hillary and he still wishes she were running.

What he's also worried about.. possible assassination because of all the crazy hate talk.

He isn't racist as much as defeatist. He doesn't think Obama will win. He thought Hillary would.

He would go down fighting for the life of his friends or their kids if it came to that without a thought. But during high school he spent a lot of time getting his ass kicked by Somali gangs and his attitude toward certain people with certain attitudes popped up.

[Warren Stupidity]

7. From your own description:

" he will never vote for a "black man" that will make "WE the People" pay for blacks to have free college while whites still can't get in."

That is not even veiled racism, it is overt racism with a slice of baloney. All I'm saying is that you can waste your time playing fact gotcha, chasing down every idiotic new smear, or just start talking to him directly about his racism, how common it is, and how it is used by the republicans as one of the many tools they have to divide working people and get them fighting against each other while we all got f*d over by the creeps at the top.

On the other hand if he can't get over the fact that Obama has african american roots, he isn't going to vote for him no matter what you do.

[Tigress DEM]

11. Because I know my son there's more to this... but I get your point.

I am concerned about the remarks he made because on the surface they sound racist. But I am MORE concerned that he is drinking the kool-aid, whichever flavor, racism being only one.

I know it isn't his nature or history to act this way. Things changed first in high school, but he was only mad at those people who beat him up and even was nice to other Somalis who weren't aggressively pushing him around.

His perception due to inaccurate information is that he will be a victim of reverse discrimination. He doesn't believe in anyone being put down because of their skin color or given a free ride because of it either. He thinks everyone needs to work for what they get. What he doesn't get is that some people can work really hard and still not get anywhere, but I think that lesson is coming.

He's up in a really RED district and if he's not looking at the facts it is something I CAN challenge him on. Even if I could convince him these things are racist and he is being a racist for saying them it's not a fruitful dialog.

Basing his opinion (whatever it is) on lies people are feeding him IS a place I can go without fear of losing the dialog. He is big on honesty and the problem is he honestly believes that Obama has no chance because the country isn't ready for him yet, NOT because the country SHOULDN'T BE ready. He wishes the country were in a better place but he has become cynical and thinks Hillary was the only chance at winning.

[LiberalFighter]

18. Your son needs to take several course in how our government works

That a bill has to pass in both the House and Senate before it can be signed by the President.

And tell him that at least 90% of those he associates on a regular basis don't know diddly about politics or government. He would be better off doing the research and history about statements that others made.

[Tigress DEM]

26. IF he or I could afford the college tuition, he WOULD.

Until then, I just keep pointing him to more reliable sources.

We both look at lifetime learning as a way of life, but his interests are usually not in politics. I was surprised he got into Hillary.

[OwnedByFerrets]

35. His "Obvious" racism. You dont know a damned thing

about his son and have NO right to call him a racist. Go take your so wrong advice somewhere else. :puke: :mad:

[Tigress DEM]

36. Her son, but thanks. Such words are awful for people to hear.

So I understand somewhat where they are coming from. It's just that people are so quick to make snap judgments here sometimes. It's hard for me to hear someone calling my son a racist, even though I see what he said is wrong, and yes a racist remark. So thank you for standing up for the ideal of not rushing to judgment. I appreciate it.

I do think that society has been so flooded with the race wars it's easy to take one side or the other. I just think we are all people and need to get along and use our diversity to our advantage instead of letting it drive us apart.

Everyone has ways they prejudge other people and all of us can learn how to be more tolerant of those who are different. It is a really small world these days and the whole "them" vs "us" thing is getting old.

We need a new way of dealing with this explosive stuff that doesn't cause us to get blown up in the process of de-fusing.

Know what I mean?

[OwnedByFerrets]

42. SS bout the gender flub Tigress.....

And yes, maybe in the future our kids or grandkids will handle it better than we have.

[Tigress DEM]

46. NO prob!

And yes, maybe in the future our kids or grandkids will handle it better than we have.

I really hope so.

But this generation seems like they will fight it out face to face. It's so weird. Kids these days bond together as friends of every stripe and color, but outside their circle they disrespect EVERYONE.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

6. Your son is either hard of hearing or insanely paranoid.

The CNN segment must have said Obama donates some of his own money to the UNCF, like you mentioned, and your son conflated it with some deep-seated racial issues of his own.

Even CNN would never claim Obama would tax people to pay for UNCF.

[Tigress DEM]

12. What I am thinking is they had some panel and let a wing-nut speak their stupidity.

Or he heard it somewhere and since he doesn't go to any news but CNN anymore, is mis-remembering it.

But the rethugs will say stuff like that and falsely attribute it, so it's probably some stupid spin rumor.

[AndyTiedye]

8. That is the Power of the Mighty Slime Machine

The MSM can make people believe just about anything. That is what we are up against.
The smears come from every network, and they get worse with every passing week.
They work, unfortunately. They are the only reason this election is as close as it is.
The networks also conspire to make it another "horse race" where "anything can happen"
(where "anything" always seems to be Republican).

I fear we are losing all of the voters who are not on the Internet, because they get their "news"
from TV, and the TV will tell them to vote for McCain. They will hear no dissenting voices
unless they happen to catch one of our 30-second spots (which are necessarily few and far
between at a million dollars a minute).

I have no idea how to fight this sort of thing. My own persuasive abilities are no match for
the expert persuaders on Faux, CNN, etc. I feel for you and anyone else who is in this situation
with members of your own family.

[Tigress DEM]

14. Guess it's time to go door to door.

I need to make up a scrap book that shows TRUTH & FACTS on one side and LIES & Distortions
on the other for every issue and just go door to door and whip it out and preach on.


Lord have mercy!



And re: your second point, kid is despairing the election will have any chance of being fair. He points back to what happened to Gore and Kerry.

[AndyTiedye]

17. Point Out to Him That LIES Like What He Was Told are Part of What Happened to Gore & Kerry

There is a whole fleet of Swift Boaters out there spewing lies about Obama.

[Tigress DEM]

27. Right at the top of my list for round 2.

Thanks for some constructive comments. One person accused my of trying to hype this up against Obama. SSigh.

[rucky]

9. He's not too old for a spanking. n/t

[Tigress DEM]

13. Since he's old enough & strong enough to bench press me, spanking is a no-go.

:hi:

[Tutonic]

10. Where do you people live? In a Afghanistan cave? If your son

can read enough to punch holes in a voting card tell him to stop being lazy and go do some research about Obama. And you need to go with him. This sounds like a hoax that you "and your son" are trying to perpetrate.

[Tigress DEM]

19. Look, disparaging me as a person isn't exactly a DEM tactic.

I am looking to rebut an obvious lie and you are acting like I'm a perp. All I want is the truth and I know whatever it is, will probably be some exaggeration from the right about his donnations to the college fund or someone taking his stance on equal education for "all" as being against whites.

I told you where my son lives and I said it was a really RED area. I live in a state that will deliver a landslide for Obama. Other people posting obviously understand that the MSM including CNN sneak in crap when they can to appease the big money dudes.

CNN has a split personality. There are two owners. Ted Turner isn't too bad, but the other guy is a tool for the rethugs. I'd have to dig up my notes from 2005 to remember his name but he was on the "Big Show with John Gibson" glibbly saying it was the media's job to lie for the govt in time of war because the govt couldn't be seen to lie itself.

YOU are the type of person I really have a hard time with, DEMs who eat their own with little or no reason and using little or no reason.

Still, I will fight for your right to remain as mouthy and ignorant as you choose to be about people trying to get at the truth because I believe in America and everything balancing out if we all do our part.

[Tutonic]

22. Thanks. My original reply stands.

[Tigress DEM]

28. Yeah, well you're fairly new to DU, so I'll let it slide.

AND I've gotten worse. I'm not perfect and a lot of people disagree with me and I've thought people were trolls who probably weren't. We all make mistakes.

Peace.

[JTFrog]

61. And you've been here long enough to know dismissing someone because of post count is taboo.

And being that it was the first thing that came to my mind when I read the OP, I'm inclined to think he had a point.

[Tigress DEM]

68. It wasn't a dismiss. Dismiss is not counting someone due to less experience.

I've been in and out of this board and some long timers know me well. But someone who has less than a thousand wouldn't be in that group.

My point to the poster and those who attacked me and labeled my son as a racist and bigot without knowing him is that people here can make judgments based on one post or one sentence in a person's life and won't hear anything else.

That is what I was trying to "let slide". Once people have hit the higher posts they have probably been on both sides of that line and understand how it feels and check themselves.

People were a lot less politically correct to me when I first got here so I do my best not to run roughshod over anyone myself. But I'm not here to take anyone's abuse. And I'm not going to run crying to the mods every time someone says "Boo" either.

[JTFrog]

79. No it was a callout to someone's post count and that is against DU rules.

That poster didn't call your son a racist. He said it sounded like someone trying to perpetuate a bullshit story about Obama and that is exactly what the OP sounded like. You just decided to take it out on him because you think he is "new" around here.

How the hell would the majority of users have any inside knowledge as to what a swell guy you say your son really is?

Your son said a racist thing and was perpetuating a racist talking point. Those who you say labeled your son should have separated what he did from what he is. Go check out the Political Video forum and you'll get that.

[Garbo 2004]

41. CNN is owned by Time Warner. Turner has TW stock but no power over TW/CNN operations. n/t

[Tigress DEM]

70. I wish I could remember the name of the co-owner. He's a real tool.

CNN is better than some, but still once in awhile I begin to trust the press and they do pull a real whack job. But it wasn't CNN and all I wanted to know was if anyone had heard about it hear. Usually if a smear is going around DU has the smack down on it.

Sometimes I don't get it. Other people ask for help etc.. They cuss and rant and say awful things and people here are all OMG they need help, I'll be nice.

I genuinely ask for help because I'm concerned about my son and people accuse me of living in an Afghan cave. Sigh. Oh well. Not everyone has to like me and visa versa.

It just bugs me more here, because I have this hope we would work together.

[Thrill]

15. If your son believes that, I feel sorry for him

But whatever. Believe the wackos. Tell him to go ahead and vote against his own best interest.

[Tigress DEM]

21. Me too, and I don't know if it's really what he believes - YET.

Kids in their 20's pipe up with a lot of stupid stuff. When you make them show you the proof and can show them the facts, it changes things.

He's over the whole "drama for the sake of drama" bit and he's buckling down to work really hard to support his family, but the rethug squeeze tactics make it easy for him to believe the lies. Life is really hard for anyone not in the top 5%. We are all on the verge of losing our country.

I wouldn't say he's anywhere near a rethug, but a misguided Libertarian, maybe.

[redstate_democrat]

25. First of all, please teach your son about what the UNCF, Affirmative Action

is and what it allows and what it does not. UNCF is not a tax payer funded organization.

If he lives in MI, I believe MI has voted against Affirmative Action????

He sounds racist. Sorry to tell ya, but his whole complaint surrounds Obama's race.

By the way, how do you feel about UNCF and Affirmative Action?

[Tigress DEM]

30. Teaching can take a lifetime in the shadow of the perpetual slime machine.

I'm on it, but just as I would with a rethug, I'll have to get better prepared.

MI may have voted that way, doesn't mean he did, but it's possible. Unlike rethugs who control every thought their kids have, I spent my time teaching him HOW to think for himself, not WHAT to think and at when he was younger, the media wasn't the whore it has become.

He does sound racist and if I can get him the facts, I can show him how that he's buying into is a racist agenda. He will do what he needs to be a better man about it. He isn't above saying he made a mistake or owning up to it.

I think the UNCF is a fantastic organization. I understand Affirmative Action and get more and more education about why it's needed even now - especially now. What is this damm housing crises other than a new way to red-line and/or simply dump blacks and their supporters/fellow strugglers out of the neighborhoods of the elite?

Tavis Smiley has had some great guests with stories that resonate. I tend to absorb it as an overall attitude of gratitude that we are all beneficiaries of our differences and that together we are stronger because of diversity. But I also believe we should get back to valuing education as a country and make it available for EVERYONE.

[redstate_democrat]

40. Well, I'm glad you're up on it.

Because it's really not about black or white. Race is a false construct that we are now forced to live within, and the people who have benefited from this false construct demonize those who point out how minorities are often given the shaft as a result. This helps them maintain the status quo and also serves as an unexpected, but useful distraction as well.

The real issue that many people get distracted from, due to issues like race, is that corporations want people to be at each other's necks over things like race, religion, social structures that they create, while they systematically enslave all of us for their corporate greed. Step by step, it is happening. They are forcing people to our knees so that we will accept almost anything and thank them for it. Some people have been asleep for so long, worrying about what some single mother with two kids is doing in the inner city while their jobs have been shipped away to foreign countries where virtual slavery exists and their pension plans and 401k plans disappear overnight. These same people who used to be the salt of the earth type of people, "hard working Americans", blue collar freedom loving people, are now, slowly but surely, being forced to view America through the lens of that single mother. But their situation is always different, in their minds. Corporate greed and the elite is the reason why "some people" can't get ahead, NOT affirmative action, NOT the UNCF, NOT some poor black or latino person living in poverty.

When people figure that out, then perhaps we'll all be better off.

[Tigress DEM]

48. Thanks. I read something else today that helps me "get" the sleight of hand at work here.

Paul Loeb wrote one of my favorite books, "The Impossible Will Take Awhile" so I bought another one, "Soul of a Citizen" (Living With Conviction in a Cynnical Time).

He wrote, back in 1999 that 76% of the top quarter of America's income bracket will see their kids finish college by 24. Meanwhile the bottom quarter of the income bracket will see only 4% of their kids finish college by 24.

In 1979 27% at the bottom quarter would finish. Nothing to write home about, but with the bottom quarter trying to beat that 4% rate and it's definately being foisted upon us with sky high tuition the competittion is getting ugly.

My son had a hard time in school but he's pretty smart. Now that he's struggling on his own he'd love to go to college and make something of himself, but keeping his head above this weeks bills is all he can do right now working 40+ hours a week in a factory. Then he got injured. Not at work so it's a non-paid medical leave with the threat of losing his job.

It's the crush of everyone who isn't a millionaire that get's us all in an uproar. Whoever's foot is in our face gets blasted, but they have 100's of feet stomping above them as well.

So the right wing rumor mill uses this against him and his buddies in the bar made it sound like they got it from "credible sources" so he bought it. I finally got him to fess up when I told him I'd been looking for days for proof of what he'd told me and couldn't find it anywhere.


Sigh.

[ihavenobias]

20. It Sounds Like You Need To Share These 3 Facts With Your Son

(If We Share Them With Enough People)

People making under 112K a year individually would be crazy to vote for McCain if their reasoning is that they believe they'll pay less income taxes.

[Tigress DEM]

31. I like it! THANKS

[Tigress DEM]

34. Thanks Everyone! THINK I have some ideas to go forward.

You can post more. I just have to get up from the pc for now.

But I'll keep checking for replies whenever I log in.

[Blue_Tires]

24. your son's belief is obviously illogical on several levels

even though if you corrected him, i think he would still find some other reason not to vote for 'the black man' -- maybe you can try to figure out where his resentment is coming from?

[Tigress DEM]

32. He USED to be the guy standing up for the underdog - any color.

But he got part of that beat out of him in high school and because he was from a large city before he moved to the little UP town, the cops up there treated him as if he were black by association because he stood up for black and listens to hip hop and rap music.

To me he's just going through an identity crises trying to survive in a racist environment. It's more like Cosby BS or a ghetto kid trying to act more "white" to keep from losing a job or friends. Or a POW identifying with his captors.

I had to deprogram him from his ghetto/gang mentality and this is more of the same. His fierce need to be independent of the folks almost guarantees he'd not be a staunch DEM. Me on my soap box is a rough thing to be around 24x7. Yelling at the TV and such.

But it's ALSO my best gambit to get into his space and force a review of crackpot ideas.

He wants to be INDEPENDENT and when I can show him how others are manipulating him with lies, hoo boy, THEY will be getting the brunt of his anger. When he gets a hold of the truth and he KNOWS his facts, his arguments will be even better than mine.

[Tutonic]

37. Sorry but your own statements bely common sense.

"The cops up there treated him as if he were black by association because he stood up for black and listens to hip hop and rap music"

"Its more like Cosby BS or a ghetto kid trying to act more "white" to keep from losing a job or friends."

"I had to deprogram him from his ghetto/gang mentality and this is more of the same."

You proved my original point and I simply would ask that you check yourself.

[Tigress DEM]

55. Being human doesn't always follow "common sense"

Do you even HAVE kids?

People are not static items that are this and no more on any given day of the week. Human beings do what they do and it doesn't always follow common sense. Were you ever in love? Did you do things you wouldn't admit to on this board? Eat food that tasted like cardboard and smiled at the cook?

We grow and change and we get hurt and fight back. Sometimes in stupid ways.

You people just don't get how SHOCKED I was to hear this stupid stuff out of my son's mouth, especially because he's the same kid who thought at 3 years old that black kids were just more tan than him.

Race was never part of his thinking until people with black skin started pounding on him on a daily basis in high school. Still, he put them in a category by themselves thinking it was a cultural thing because they came from Somalia and felt they had to act that way.

There are LIFELONG Republican's who have changed their minds who the DU fall over themselves to respect, but you can't get your mind around a person who listens to dis-information on a daily basis in a predominantly RED neighborhood even though he tries to find good information being mad about some obnoxious thing he heard from a supposed trusted source.

[goodgd_yall]

29. It sounds like typical FOXnews crap

Even though CNN often follows Fox on the news they tend to highlight, that sounds like a Fox piece. Unless CNN had a guest commentator who dropped that little piece of inanity. It's obviously a lie based on your basic "scary, black man" fear.

[Tigress DEM]

33. I know that was the first thing I asked him. Was it on FAUX?

My other thought is he is afraid to have his hopes smashed.

Hillary and Bill he believed were tough enough to face the rethugs and their war machine, slime tactics etc...

I need to get my copy back of Barrack's biography from my friend. It really shows how he grew up and what kind of person he would be because of it. It's an easy read and it makes sense on many different levels.

[GreenPartyVoter]

38. I once suggested that I would love to see our gov't pay everyone's way for

school cradle to grave, as is done in some other nations. A lawyer here freaked out and jumped all over me, and when pressed told me that she didn't get a free ride and therefore she didn't want anyone else to have one either.

I can sorta understand what your son is thinking, as tough as things are for everyone, including us, it can be hard to hold on to certain ideals when the situation on the ground is a disaster.

[Tigress DEM]

56. I'd like it just to be something people CAN achieve with solid effort.

It is great that people like that lawyer can overcome whatever obstacles and make something of themselves, but they don't "get" how stacked the deck has gotten.

I just read in "Soul of a Citizen" by Paul Loeb that we've gone from 27% chance of kids in the lower 1/4 of the income bracket getting through college to 4% from 1979 to 1999.

Whatever that lawyer faced, most kids out there today don't have the same access to even attempt what he did.

My new thing is "pre-paid credit". I think that as a tax incentive anyone who puts money away for their kids college should get a voucher that is specifically and only for tuition. It should come off the top of their taxable income so they have incentive to do it and it should be taxed when the kid uses it for the purpose intended. If for any reason the kid doesn't go to college it can pass on to his/her children but only for that purpose. The funds should also go into a real "lock box" that can't be manipulated by the market and lost or stolen by corrupt politicians.

[Bill McBlueState]

65. Free college isn't that far-fatched

A couple hundred years ago, hardly anyone had access to free high school, but it's commonplace now. It doesn't seem like such a stretch to provide an additional two (or even four) years of free education to anyone who wants it.

[vaberella]

39. This is the most ridiculous post I have ever seen. It's like being slapped in the face by racism.

He can believe what he wants. Obama's records are for public viewing and you know what, that's up to him.

I'll be blunt, you're son is a complete racist and I don't care if he had the "so-called Black" friends while growing up.

Obama's policies are for the working and poor class of people in America if he has a problem with that, then that's on him and I'd totally love to see the information on that. The people at DU are pretty good about taping CNN's crap news and I have yet to see those statements. Smear or not your son believes it, so whatever. I'm more disgusted by his racist mindset than the "supposed" information without evidence on Obama.

[Tigress DEM]

49. I never posted this as believing the "supposed" information.

I was just trying to find out where it came from. I like to write to the sources of dis-information and blast them with the truth. I HATE media that participates in smears against DEMs while they let rethug shenanigan's be put in a "boys will be boys" kind of light.


I understand why people see what he said as "racist" but you can't look at a person by one comment (Jesse Jackson's "Obama by the balls" comes to mind) and determine who they are based on that.


I understand Obama's policies. I am trying to teach my son that like southerners voting for rethugs, he is going against his own best interests if he doesn't vote and let's McCain in by default.


You remind me of my sister who thought she had all the answers until she had kids of her own.

Until you have walked a mile in my son's shoes, I suggest you keep your judgments to yourself. Feel how you want to feel you are entitled to that, but don't think you KNOW someone by something they said in a private phone call to their mother.

[vaberella]

67. You're son reiterated the "supposed" information as fact.

If he didn't believe it, he would never have and I quote...

But now he's decided he won't vote cause she's not in and he will never vote for a "black man" that will make "WE the People" pay for blacks to have free college while whites still can't get in."

Get yourself together and look what you said and did on this thread. You posted basically a so-called "private" phone call to ones mother. That phone call is no longer private because you allowed it to viewing for thousands of members to see.

Secondly, you can't tell me to keep my judgements to myself because you opened the door for me to make a judgement based on what he said. His statements already coloured my view of his personality. What he said to you, that you repeated to us is more than a "fruedian slip" that's out right and blatant hate.

[Tigress DEM]

72. The thing is if I say anything else about him you dismiss it as irrelevant.

Who he is happens to be more than one conversation.

When I said it was a private conversation with me, what I was referring to is that he will sort things out and he tosses a lot of stuff that is stupid after talking to me. People can take a lifetime to sort themselves out, and parents can't control everything their kids think, hear and say. Especially from hundreds of miles away.

I am as concerned as anyone here about the implications of what he said. More. I just have never found judgment, or as someone here suggested punching him in his face, an effective parenting tool or a means to a civil and productive discussion.

I try to remember he is in a totally red area and he hears a lot of crap. He doesn't take it all in, but he really wanted Hillary to win and that whole campaign spent a lot of time highlighting Obama's blackness and hinting at him being a prime target for assassins in this crazy day and age.

So what his friends say isn't any more scandalous than what the Hillary campaign did, and even here on DU people are having a hard time sorting that out.

I'm looking at the big picture of finding the facts and getting beyond this and you people are popping in with your judgments which aren't really helpful. I asked for help not judgment and if you can't tell the difference, I guess that is more your problem than mine.

And if you don't like me telling you where to put your judgments, stay off the thread. Just because it's here doesn't mean you have to post either. I'm not holding a rope around you demanding you stay.

[Tigress DEM]

73. Clarification: I DON'T BELIEVE THE SMEAR INFORMATION.

The implication of some posters act as if I am posting as gospel something I am looking to disprove.

Just wanted to make that clear.

[KingFlorez]

43. Why bother?

That is an obvious lie, if someone wants to believe it, let them, it's their problem.

[Tigress DEM]

50. Why bother? It isn't just SOMEONE, it's my son.

If we let the media or the right wing smear machine spread their lies so willie nillie then we're practically doing their job for them.

It turned out to be some stupid friend of his, not the news anyway, but it would not be the first time I had to trounce CNN for their complicity with the administration's agenda. They behave themselves as long as they keep getting slapped down whenever they screw up.

When the lies are believed by enough people, we lose everything we have gained in 200 plus years since the Constitution was written.

I understand that your attitude may help keep your own blood pressure at an even keel. I suppose you're just saying that it's really hard to convince someone of the truth if they are swallowing such swill. Part of me understands. I have a lot of right wing nut relatives I don't try to dissuade from their beliefs.

But my son isn't a right wing nut. He was a Hillary supporter.

Just like we keep the fire under the DEMs in Congress and tear our fellow DUers a new one if they start drinking the koolaid or would slap a loved one to keep them awake when they were succumbing to hypothermia, we MAKE those we care about see the truth even if it hurts them for the time being.

If we don't, it says more about us than it does about them.

[Popol Vuh]

44. If its true

I wouldn't see it as a smear. Natives, Blacks, Mexicans and Chinese have been exploited and abused so much that the wealth their exploitation did much to create should be used toward helping their education. Its just giving back a little.

[Tigress DEM]

51. It's NOT true, and reparation while deserved is better if not forced.

BTW Don't forget the Japanese who were interned in WWII camps here in the US.

The smear is that Obama would do anything to "force" Americans to "make it up to blacks". He didn't live his life that way. He wants people on board, but I don't see him as making anything but showing up and giving everything you have to offer as mandatory.

[BlooInBloo]

45. There's no such things as convincing bigots....

Instead, the solution is to (a) stop making more bigots, and (b) wait for the current bigots to die.

[Tigress DEM]

53. What a load of crap.

It used to be that men would say, "Women want to be raped, look at the clothing they wear."

One time a cop said that in a classroom setting and the teacher shot back, "So, Officer Jones, How many more women are YOU raping now that the mini-skirt is all the rage?"

Sputtered reply, "None!"

Teacher, "Of course, because rape isn't about what women wear it's about what's inside the mind of the rapist."


SO my question to you is, "How many bigots have you created lately by holding people to such standards that one sentence in their life invalidates the rest?"

AND my second question is, "Who died and made you God that you should judge others when I bet your own life is far from perfect?"

NO ONE is perfect and we all have our stupid days.

Today was yours I guess.

[JoFerret]

47. Sounds like a good plan to me

throw in all students who need financial help and it's perfect.

Tell him it's unfortunately untrue but also ask him what's wrong with the idea.

Does he need money for college too? Talk to him about democratic ideas for making college affordable for everyone.

[Tigress DEM]

57. IF it were ALL the students he wouldn't be complaining.

He was working crazy overtime until recently when he got injured and I think his attitude has gotten a bit sour.

He's a Hillary fan and I think he's still hurting about the loss and looking for reasons not to like Obama.

He'll come around.

He usually says a lot of stupid stuff before he decides to do the right thing. I have come to see it as part of his process. Like the toxins that come out when we cry or sweat. It's part of his Psyche because he's in a toxic environment and he absorbed it.

I still hold him accountable to obtaining factual sources, so he told me CNN but I found out it was a friend who told him.. ... some friend.

[Marrah_G]

52. If his heels are dug in it might be best to drop it.

All you can do is try and bring him around slowly if you want to preserve the relationship.

[Tigress DEM]

58. That's why I'm processing here.

I DID find out that he was telling me it was on CNN because he already KNOWS anything he hears on FAUX is crap as far as I'm concerned.

When I called yesterday and said I couldn't find a single confirmation anywhere of what he said he told me a "friend" told him about it and so next "tiny" conversation is, "What kind of friend is this person?"

He has two kids in diapers and works full time so he hasn't had time to do the internet, but if I pull up the info he will believe me and then toss it back at his friends.

I also realized that being a Hilary supporter, he's still in that wounded phase looking for a reason not to like Obama. So some of it will be letting him have time to adjust.

If Hil gets VP, he might just turn around in a heartbeat.

[mwb970]

54. Does it have something to do with being in the Upper Peninsula?

After often vacationing near Traverse City (in the "northern ring finger" area of the Lower Peninsula) I decided to visit the U.P. one year. Yow! What a difference. It seemed more like Idaho than Michigan. Lots of trees, and lots of signs of the attitude you speak of. I felt like I didn't belong there.

Next trip north, I'm back to the Lower Peninsula!

[Tigress DEM]

59. That and it's a very small town.

If I could get him and his buddies to listen to the ED Schultz show, I'd probably not even have to be the go between for news items.

He's into hunting and being a rugged individual. You have to if you shovel 15 inches every time it snows near Lake Superior.

[mwb970]

62. I admire a lot about the lifestyle up there, actually.

But why do the wacko politics have to go hand-in-hand with the "rugged" idea? Can't a "rugged" person also respond to truth, justice, honor, etc.? Or are far-right wingnut ideas somehow part and parcel of being a "rugged individual"?

As you can tell, I really don't understand the mentality of the right wing.

[Tigress DEM]

66. Well, it may be the hunting and fishing thing.

Guys start mingling with the NRA boys and they get some goofy ideas going, I guess.

The problem is we've been lied to so much people start believing anything and nothing.

And in a small town the truth is a whole lot less interesting most times.

Course, if he'd find the time to log on here, he'd lose that aspect really soon.

[tsuki]

63. Ask him what type of tax break he wants.

The table is here.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/taxes.asp

[Tigress DEM]

74. Yeah, I also saw a side by side that was pretty good

On TV they put the breaks in some weird places. I could see they were trying not to make McCain look, well McSame as Bush, but the numbers tell the story.

This graph below shows better the percentages which to me speaks to fairness. Those who benefit most should pay their fair share. Also with the kid in mind, short attention span, graphs work faster to get the entire point across quickly.

People at the top (2.9 Million and above) are going to have to pay taxes. They can afford it. They have most of the money in this country. The lower 80% of us are splitting way LESS than 20% of the entire income in the country. Something like 10%-15% (max) if you go up to the 80-90% group.

Bush created 720 NEW Billionaires. Those people can darn well pay their fair share. The top 5% holds 80-95% of the money in the country. If they DON'T pay, there is NO WAY to get the same amount of money out of people who plain don't have it.





http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2008/07/02/how-the-rich-would-fare-under-obama-mccain

[Bill McBlueState]

64. Where did he get the idea that our government works that way?

Presidents don't get to unilaterally implement new taxes.

People should try to learn a little basic civics before they get involved in the internet rumor mill.

[Tigress DEM]

76. Inner city schools don't teach Civics anymore - it's all test scores.

He passed every damm test they did for the no child left behind and all they left behind was the education.

We're working on it. I picked this battle because it's important, but usually it's just good to get him talking and thinking and to point him toward better information.

He lives in another state and just how the grandkids seem to grow by leaps and bounds, I turn around and the next time I see him he has a whole different political view than the last time we spoke.

When he was a kid he floated through a gazillion phases. He got very small school wardrobes because I knew in 4-5 months he'd be out of goth and into skateboarder. Then to gangsta and then preppy.

My secret weapon in all this is that if I can get him good information it will be like when I challenged him to come up with more than the 7 words you can't say for conversation. He had such a ghetto potty mouth. I told him that was a second language and as far as I was concerned he had to speak English in my presence.

He decided after awhile that he liked having an expansive vocabulary. Learning new words made him feel better about himself. Getting the real scoop on Obama will likely give him the same kind of good feeling. He wants to like the guy, but he's buying into the cynics that say Obama won't make it.

It won't be easy, but he's learning all these politics in a raging river of mis-information. My folks had time to show us day by day all kinds of things that taught me how to be a Democratic voter. My son is more of a rebel than I was and so many things are pulling him in so many directions.

If Hillary gets the VP nod, this could be a moot conversation. He had/has a lot of faith in the Hill/Bill combo. He remembers it was a LOT better during the Clinton administration than it's been since Bush. And if those two have Obama's back, kid won't worry so much about someone stepping up to take him out.

I think more than anything he sees Obama as young, inexperienced and taking on more than he can handle. While that might be fine and admirable in a friend, he wouldn't want a friend with that skillset stepping up to this challenge.

[Skittles]

78. I'll plead the 5th since it's your son n/t