Could it be...Joe Biden?

[babylonsister]

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/07/could_it_bejoe_biden.html

Could it be...Joe Biden?
Posted July 13, 2008 9:00 AM
The Swamp


Joe BidenBiden waits for an introduction before giving a speech at the Center for American Progress on May 20 in Washington. (Photo by Mark Wilson/Getty Images)

by Naftali Bendavid

snip//

So if Obama is like John Kennedy, a charismatic young senator with little experience, Biden could play the Lyndon Johnson role, a well-known and seasoned operator who's been around the block.

Moreover, Biden is one of the few losing candidates who emerged from recent primaries with his reputation enhanced, despite his inability to garner more than a sliver of the vote. He was seen as an energetic and skillfull campaigner. After his initial gaffe, he seemed impressive in stump speeches and town hall meetings. His best moment, perhaps, was when he was asked in a debate whether as president, he would have the discipline to control his loquaciousness. Biden responded, "Yes"--then stood silently while the audience laughed. In general, he's quick on his feet; at one point he mocked Rudy Giuliani by saying, "There's only three things he mentions in a sentence--a noun, a verb and 9-11."

Biden also has a compelling life story, if one that is not quite as dramatic as John McCain's. An Irish Catholic born into a family of modest means, Biden has shown an ability to connect with the blue collar voters Obama has struggled to attract. He was elected to the Senate in 1972 at age 29, one of its youngest members ever. A short time later, his wife and infant daughter died in an auto accident, which also injured his two sons. He began commuting by train every day between Delaware and Washington, something he still does. Initially known as an eloquent rising star, Biden ran for president in 1988, but had to withdraw following a plagiarism incident. In 1988, he was hospitalized with two brain aneurysms, but returned to the Senate in full health.

When some people look at Obama, he may appear too youthful to occupy the Oval Office. Biden has his share of scars from personal and political difficulties, and for some, that could be reassuring.

[Inuca]

1. Link? n/t

[babylonsister]

10. Oops! Thanks, and here:

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/07/could_it_bejoe_biden.html

[Radio_Lady]

45. Works for me. Joe Biden is outspoken and intelligent.

I love to hear him talk. He has a sparkle to him that an older woman can admire.

What is his family situation? I haven't looked into this at all for quite a while.

Thanks for the post.

RL in OR

[NYC_SKP]

2. I'd love it! Might his earlier statements been a part of a strategy?

The statement that he'd run if asked, but didn't want to be asked.

A carefully considered distraction to keep the media at bay?

Of course, we'd hate to lose him in the Senate...

[gateley]

38. No - I totally believed him.

I don't think he wants to work for anybody, especially being the "assistant" for the job he wanted. I think what he wants is SOS.

But, as he said (honestly), if Obama's campaign felt he could be a help on the ticket, of course he'd say yes -- who could say no if someone is asking your for help?

[ravishane]

59. Secretary of State

Is the most likely position for him. I certainly don't want him on the ticket. Methinks the Obama campaign will have to let it be known (not now, obviously) what his cabinet will look like in October. Biden as S of S, Clark/someone else as S of D, and Richardson S of E, or whatever. Meanwhile, he picks Kaine as is running mate to go after Virginia.

[awoke_in_2003]

66. Clark cannot be SecDef

you have to be retired from the military 10 years before taking that job. Would make a good VP, and actually has a respectable military career to point to (unlike McCain). Do you really want to lose Biden in the Senate? No telling what kind of asshat would take his place.

[Ian David]

3. He looks completely lost there without a microphone to speak to.

"I believe I am helpless against my microphone addiction. I believe..."

[DrDan]

4. t'was my prediction a week or more ago

was poo-pooed by many.

I think he would be a great choice - if Wes Clark is truly out of the picture.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

7. took the words right out of my mouth --if not Clark

and probably not at this point.

then Biden.

[Egnever]

44. I would like either

I would go with Wes first just because of Joe's position in the senate but either would work well for me

[Eurobabe]

52. it was my predicition on Jan 4th, 2008

beat you. :rofl:

[DrDan]

58. darn

just too slow I guess.

Anyway - obama could certainly do worse.

[Eurobabe]

63. Certainly could. ;)

Let's hope he is smart. :applause:

[muryan]

5. I haven't seen many tickets

that are more appealing than Obama/Biden.

[gateley]

39. Biden/Obama would have been more appealing to me --

that way we would have been able to live in the WH for 16 years!

[Muttocracy]

43. words right outta my mouth. nt

[Radio_Lady]

46. Well, we can't have everything we want. It's a day by day business.

[EFerrari]

6. I really hope not. Because Joe doesn't do well off the cuff sometimes.

That's not a deep reason but in this media climate, it could be important.

[David Zephyr]

9. That's Biden's single weak point: he speaks too quickly...but I think he's learned.

I liked when Biden would give one word answers in the debates and the audience would laugh at his own self-deprecating joke.

I like Joe Biden and think he should be in the running, but he really will have to watch his words.

[EFerrari]

12. Everybody has tics. If he's working on his, that's more than most people do. n/t

[Radical Activist]

14. He doesn't play well in Peoria.

A flashy pocket handkerchief? Give me a break. It amazes me that after Kerry's loss people still don't understand how little appeal northeastern candidates have in middle America.

[Smarmie Doofus]

22. FDR, Kennedy, Nixon ( NY resident) and Bush 1 ...

... all were elected from Northeast states.

Plus Delaware is more of a border state.


We're supposed to cross Biden off because he carries a hankie? Give *me* a break.

[Radical Activist]

25. That's a big stretch. Bush was elected from Texas. Nixon from CA.

They lived elsewhere long enough to adapt a different style/outlook.

FDR was another era and Kennedy is a rare exception that couldn't have won without LBJ carrying the south for him. A northeastern candidate hasn't been elected President in nearly 50 years and the last barely won. But if people can't learn from Dukakis and Kerry then they never will.

[Smarmie Doofus]

26. Nixon:

From Wiki:


>>>>>However, one year later, John Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas, Texas. The events that defined the tumultuous 1960s were beginning, and before the decade closed, a "New Nixon," one who was "tanned, rested and ready." Nixon moved to New York City, where he became a senior partner in the leading law firm Nixon, Mudge, Rose, Guthrie & Alexander. During the 1966 Congressional elections, he stumped the country in support of Republican candidates, rebuilding his base in the>>>>>>>>>>

That's NYC. Fifth Ave., if I'm not mistaken... down the street from John Mitchell, law partner, campaign manager, Atty General and Watergate co-conspirator.

GHWB: born and bread New Englander who rented a hotel room in Houston to establish residency for Congressional camapaign. Most of his adult life was spent around Wash DC ( i.e. in the "Northeast").

Re. "another era: even FDR felt the need to "balance" the ticket with Garner and Truman. ( Henry Wallace was a midwesterner but was progressive... the real sin in this scenario. Which is why he had to be scuttled.... not 'cause he came from Iowa.)

We can continue to nominate and occassionally elect elect people from the south, seems to me, and thereby pander to the prejudices of the dumbest of the dumb; we will continue to get the gov't we deserve, however. Might be better to try to educate them rather than pander to them since we will face this dilemma on into perpetuity if we don't.

[Radical Activist]

27. Do you really believe that spin?

Nixon is from the northeast because he spent a few years at a law firm AFTER being VP and running for President? Not to mention that he moved back to CA and ran for Governor again before being elected President. Jesus fucking Christ that's a pathetic attempt to make your argument. That's the kind of strained argument I expect from a talk radio host who has no regard for the truth (or from Hillary). Nixon was a Northeastern candidate because he spent a few years in New York long after he become a national figure. That's a good one!

And no, DC is not the Northeast anymore than VA. Once again, Bush was elected from Texas, the South.

The fact that you think appealing to the South means pandering to "the prejudices of the dumbest of the dumb" is a perfect example of why arrogant, holier-than-thou, condescending, preachy assholes from the Northeast never do well in the South and Midwest. Those regions also don't have much tolerance for bullshit spin that people tend to eat up on the coasts.

The pocket handkerchief is just one external manifestation of a much bigger culture gap. In the TV/Internet age we need a candidate who can appeal to all regions of the country, and Biden isn't that guy.

[Smarmie Doofus]

28. One of the reasons Nixon lost the Cal. gov race is precisely *because*......

>>>Nixon is from the northeast because he spent a few years at a law firm AFTER being VP and running for President? Not to mention that he moved back to CA and ran for Governor again before being elected President. >>>

.... he'd been in Washigton ( i.e. the NE) for so long. And that was BEFORE the move to NYC. Point: by the time he ran in '68 he was as much a Northeasterner as Reagan was a Californian. ( Also, read "The Selling of the President, 1968", Joe McGinnis; his camapign was a NYC- conceived venture from start to finish. NYC as in Madison Ave as in Northeast, as in silk-hankies, etc. etc. etc. In fact , he almost carried the state and DID carry NJ!)







>>>>Jesus fucking Christ that's a pathetic attempt to make your argument. That's the kind of strained argument I expect from a talk radio host who has no regard for the truth (or from Hillary).>>>>

Denounce my argument, denounce Jeeesus but compare me with that cookie-baking, Tammy Wynette-dissing Jezebel from Illilittlerockachappaqua at your peril.



>>>>Once again, Bush was elected from Texas, the South.>>>

Ya... from his hotel room.



>>>>The fact that you think appealing to the South means pandering to "the prejudices of the dumbest of the dumb" is a perfect example of why arrogant, holier-than-thou, condescending, preachy assholes from the Northeast never do well in the South and Midwest.>>>

You're subtly miscasting my argument. We both know that there is a significant element in the south that is loathe to support a northeasterner simply on the basis of his her place of origin. A clssic illustration is the disparity of the vote totals in the Fla. panhandle for the DEM presidential candidates in 2004 and 2000. ( These results were analyzed ad nauseum on this board in the wake of 2004. The Wash DC-raised preppie with the slight drawl and who claimed Tennessee as his place of origin did between two and three times better than the MASS-raised preppie VN war hero whose politics, philosophy and qualifications were virtually indistinguishable from guy-with-drawl. Again, the difference was drawl... and *no* drawl. Even their opponent was the same.

To note that there is a pivotal segment of the southern electorate who base their voting behavior on something so trivial ... yes, something so *dumb* as geography ( not even geography but PERCEIVED geography) is not the same thing as dismissing the south from the electoral equation. We added Edwards to the ticket in 04 and I approved of this ( alas, not only did John fail to bring in his home state, he also failed to bring in his congressional district and even failed to carry his PRECINCT)mindful of the fact that certain southern states were potentially contestable despite the "dumb" vote.

There I go again. To be more explicit: most southerners are not dumb. A lot of them are. I'd wager more people in the south base their vote on a "dumb" criteria ( geography) than do voters in the north. This can't reasonably be disputed as we northerners have historically backed a myriad of southerners ( Carter, Johnson, Truman, Clinton) but the reverse cannot reasonably be argued. You said as much yourself:

>>>>>arrogant, holier-than-thou, condescending, preachy assholes from the Northeast never do well in the South and Midwest. Those regions also don't have much tolerance for bullshit spin that people tend to eat up on the coasts.>>>>>

(BTW, both the preachy Dukakis and the condescending Kerry carried more of the midwest than did they're non-preachy and non-condescending billionaire demagogic opponents.)

"No tolerance for bull shit spin"? Yikes... no tolerance for much of *anything*, seems to me; including non-whites, immigrants, labor unions, high literacy levels, gays and peace.

I didn't realize that the coasts were such a political and cultural backwater.

Who knew.

[Radical Activist]

29. You still don't get it.

It isn't just about where a person is from. Its about the lack of appeal of someone with "that Yankee attitude" as one Tennessean I know put it. And every single comment from someone in the Northeast about what a bunch of ignorant, racist hicks Southerners are meant one more vote against Kerry. Its something most people from the northeast will never understand, just as much as they won't understand why people from the South look down on them just as much as they look down on Southerners.

[Smarmie Doofus]

36. Yeah, I know, I know, carpet baggers and scalawags.

Yada, yada, yada. We *do* get it and it's OLD.

The war's over. The south did not win. Time to move on. If there were not a problem with racism and ignorance in the south, the "coasts".... as you so blithly put it.... would not be full of racial, religious and sexual minorites run out of dixie and public school stat's wouldn't be so abysmal in the old confederacy.

Right or wrong?

[Radical Activist]

37. Are you so blind to prejudice that you think it only exists in the South?

There's that Yankee arrogance again. I'm sure New York and LA schools are all perfect. I'll refer you to my previous comment about condescending, preachy, holier than thou attitudes.
Are you unaware of how quickly Southern cities are filling up with people from other regions?

Now I'm thinking that you're just screwing with me. Your idea that its about Southerners still bitter about the civil war is such an ignorant cliche that I think you're just putting on an act.

Biden comes off as an inauthentic, arrogant, phony, just like Kerry, Dukakis and most candidates from the Northeast appear to most of the rest of the country. Get the picture yet? Dean finished third in Iowa because he was a huge fake and people could sense it. Same with Hillary. Same problem for Biden.

You can keep making spin, excuses and insults at the south, or you could attempt to understand a political reality.

[Smarmie Doofus]

54. Of course there's prejudice outside of the south. Stop creating....

strawman arguments. Never said or implied any such thing. That's a tedious and disingenuous tactic. OTOH, to say that the political culture of the south ... in so far as it relates to racial and religious pluralism... is comparable to ANY other region of the USA is tantamount to saying that you know nothing about American history.

Here's the bottom line: At the presidential level: Northerners will vote for southerners.... even when the southerners are running against Northerners. If there is such a tremendous Northeastern bias against the south how... in the name of Stonewall Jackson... can you possibly explain the repeated success and popularity of southerners in the Northeast? Clinton, Carter, Truman, Johnson.

You cannot. And can you say the same about Northeastern candidates on the ballot in the south? You cannot. Instead you resort to whiney complaints that the Northerners are "phoney", "condescending", "preachy, and "holier than though". In other words... a lot like that slimebag, Lincoln.

Quite frankly, I think much of the south has an inferiority complex... and the hostility toward Northern liberals stems from that. Some of it is based on actual inferiority but much of the south feels more inferior than it actually is.In 2004, the media kept pushing hing the idea that "NASCAR dads" ... media shorthand for southern whites.... favored Bush over Kerry because they felt more comfortable with a president " WHO THEY BELIEVED WASN'T SMARTER THAN *THEY* ARE."

I think that IS true of many ( not most; certainly not "all") white southerners. To me , adjectives like "condescending" and "effete" suggest a recognition that someone IS smarter than oneself. Objectively speaking, Kerry is an extremely bright man. Brighter than me, brighter than almost anyone I know. Point: I'm *MORE* inclined, not *LESS* inclined to vote for him for that reason. Ditto Gore, Dukakis... and virtually anuyone else we've nominated for POTUS.

This, I'll dare say, is a relatively typical outlook in the North. Some... more than a few... southerners, acting from a sense of their own inferiority, react perversely to the same recognition. The person's intelligence has to be belittled and actually turned into a liablility. (You do this yourself.)

So we end up with someone who isn't smarter than us. Someone who isn't even "smart". And all of the inractable attendant problems.... war, recession, etc... that such foolishness brings about.

Have a happy.

[Radical Activist]

62. YOU raised "ignorance and racism" in the South

as if that region has a monopoly on both. So no, it isn't a straw-man. To say the history of race-based politics is somehow unique to the South is to be completely ignorant of American history.

Using words about northeastern candidates as condescending, holier than thou, and preachy (exactly how your posts sounds as well) is not a complaint. Its an explanation of what you have such difficulty understanding. You will obviously never, ever get it, or else you're still just putting me on with an act. I'm not sure which.

The problem for people like Kerry, Dean and Hillary is that people can sense it when you think you're better than they are. Candidates from Ivy League backgrounds who lived their lives in metropolitan areas have a problem going to the "flyover" states and rural areas because sooner or later many people in those areas are going to pick up on the fact that those candidates think they're better than the voters they're appealing to. You may be able to hide it for a while or on TV, but not when you have to talk to people face to face in Iowa. That's why Hillary did so poorly in the Midwest.

The arrogance involved in assuming that people in the South think Northerners are arrogant because they feel inferior is astounding, and I love the irony of you proving my point with such an amazingly superior, condescending statement. Beautiful. Maybe people from the South think people from the northeast are arrogant because they do in fact act that way and have attitudes like the ones you express here.

And its telling that you keep turning this back to the South when my posts were about the South and Midwest. Are you going to tell me the entire Midwest has an inferiority complex as well? Oh yes, the entire country is jealous of New England because you're all so fucking special. Wow! Thanks for confirming the stereotype of the region!

[Smarmie Doofus]

23. Plus , we're considering him for VEEP, not Prez. nt

[SoxFan]

31. He plays well in lots of places

I wager that Biden will play VERY well in Scranton, Wilkes-Barre, Erie, Manchester, Youngstown, and Toledo. He has a strong appeal to guys like my father, born in the 1940s, not driven by ideology, who like a guy who is smart, tough, and see his wise ass streak as a sign of confidence.

With Obama and Biden, you have a dream ticket. Obama provides youth, energy, idealism, and generational change. Biden provides experience, appeal to pre-boomer moderates, and a compelling personal story that is rich in committment to faith and family.

[Radical Activist]

34. Yes, I can tell by how well he did in the primaries

We see exactly how much appeal he had.

Biden never comes off as an authentic person which is why he won't be accepted in large parts of the country.

[gateley]

41. How did your candidate do? nt

[Radical Activist]

61. He's the nominee

and he will be the President.

[gateley]

65. I knew it was a risky snark, but I forged ahead.

:7

And yes, he will be the President, and a great one, IMO.

[gateley]

40. He also does very well off the cuff, too.

Obama isn't perfect off the cuff, either -- nobody is.

I think Biden has more 'good' off the cuff remarks than not. We only hear about the gaffes. There's really only a handful, but they keep making the rounds.

[longship]

8. Biden would be entirely okay with me.

I like all the names being floated. Just maybe Biden could be the best strategic choice.

I like Kathleen Sebelius and John Edwards as well.

[saltpoint]

11. Obama, in deciding his team, could do far worse than Biden -- as veep, or, if not

for the veep slot then certainly as Sec. of State or another essential role.

I would want a seasoned veteran like Biden around me when I was steering the ship of state.

[David Zephyr]

13. Joe Biden is in my top five.

Joe Biden won several of the first debates. He is a very bright man who time has tempered.

In alphabetical order: Biden, Clark, Clinton, Kerry and Richardson.

[ravishane]

60. of your list

only Richardson makes my top five. CERTAINLY not John Kerry. And I don't like the militarism of Biden or Clark. And Clinton is a non-starter for me.

Kaine, Richardson, Sebelius, Napolitano, or Bayh.

[newmajority]

15. Two senators on the ticket = pResident McLoon

Biden will probably play some role in the Obamadministration (secretary of state seems like a good fit) but not VP.

[scarletwoman]

16. Ugh. Could we PLEASE stop trying to drain Dems out of the Senate?

I like Biden okay, but I don't see how he brings in any more votes from the country at large. And his Bankruptcy bill vote -- ugh ugh ugh.

As another poster above pointed out, Northeastern liberals have almost ZERO appeal to the vast middle and west of the country. And TOTALLY zero appeal to the South.

I would fervently hope that Obama can do MUCH better than Biden.

sw

[Dinger]

21. Same Here (nt)

[muryan]

30. Biden has a ton of appeal with applachian voters

Hes seen as very pro-union, and they like his off the cuff style of speaking. Its not a stretch for Joe to come to a picket line in Ohio and march with the guys out there.

[SoxFan]

33. Reality Check

I've discussed the VP choice with more than a dozen people in the last week or two, all of them actice, informed Democrats. Do you know how many mentioned the bankruptcy bill?

Not a single one.

The bankruptcy bill is one of those issues that had far more resonance in the internet echo chamber than in the outside world.

I'll also point out that it's silly to use a term like "northeastern liberal". Using this rationale, we can't nominate John Edwards because he was born in the same state as Strom Thurmond and represented the same state as Jesse Helms, and well, that sort of cracker appeal just won't play up north.

Michael Dukakis and John Kerry had a chilly, almost waspy, Ivy League quality about them. Biden comes from a middle class Irish Catholic family, graduated from a state college, and went to law school at a university better known for its basketball team than its academic profile. He speaks the language of a lot of folks in places like northern Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and New Hampshire.

[Mark E. Smith]

17. No.

Joe has a bad habit of putting his foot in his mouth.

I personally want Wesley Clark, but my money is
on Bill Richardson.

[gateley]

48. Name all the gaffes Joe Biden has committed. nt

[LWolf]

50. No response...no surprise.

I think Biden would be a great choice, myself.

[gateley]

51. I do as well -- he's a good guy. nt

[davidwparker]

18. I like the idea, actually. I approve!

[tokenlib]

19. I'd love to hear him echo Obama's attacks on bankruptcy reform...

Obama attacked Hillary for supporting it and has continued attacking McCain for the bankruptcy reform legislation and votes.. Is Obama going to all of a sudden shut-up on the issue--or is Joe going to do a 180 on his sucking up to the banks and lenders....

There is a bit of potential embarrassment on this issue if Biden gets the VP nod--- At the very least Biden would by his presence undercut Obama's stand with the economically struggling consumer against the abuse of the banks and lenders...

[anonymous171]

20. I would love that. nt

[TwilightGardener]

24. Biden would make a fine VP, if he controls himself.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

32. Yes

I don't have a problem with Joe Biden.

[jillan]

35. Or as Sec of State, which is what he would prefer.

[Zookeeper]

55. I'd rather see him as Secretary of State, also.

He can do more good as a Senator, than as a V.P. Being V.P. would be a waste of his talent and experience.

[jillan]

56. Exactly - but it would be fun watching him take down McInsane if he was Obama's running mate.

:P

[Zookeeper]

57. OH yeah!

That would be a real pleasure.... :D

[Egnever]

42. God I hope so

Though I am quite sure Joe doesnt.

[Omaha Steve]

47. Met him last fall

Bought his autographed book. Would be a good choice.

[Lorien]

49. I hope not

[JohnnyCougar]

53. It's between him and Nunn for me.

I like Biden better, but Nunn would give Obama a boost in NC, GA and FL -- states Obama is already working hard at flipping.

[Danger Mouse]

67. NOT Nunn. We don't need a homophobe on the ticket.

[Debi]

64. What a great choice he would be! n/t

[Danger Mouse]

68. Let's try to avoid taking any more Dem Senators out of the Senate.

Pick a governor, we need as many Senators as possible.