Nuts and The Audacity of Listening

[omega minimo]

I support the Democratic presidential candidate. I have supported (whoever would be) the Democratic candidate before and during the time that some Obamaniacs and Hillaryites were threatening to VOTE FOR MCCAIN!! or NOT VOTE if their favorite wasn't the candidate.

Obama is a player. That's not an insult. That's an observation. He's a politician, he's smooth, he's very good at what he does. Hillary is a player. She's a politician, she's smooth, she's very good at what she does. While people fought over "Black" and "Woman," I saw two Players. (See article linked at end).

So, it wasn't a big shock recently when people got played.

There's a danger for DU/Democrats in unexamined, unexpressed, unacceptable topics of discussion. For example with Obamania, those who don't have it, and still WILL vote for him, have relevant concerns and contributions to make. If they're "disappeared" by Democrats, it fuels the insanity of talking pointsmongers like Big Brother Limbaugh. If Democrats are walking in lockstep, muzzling each other, treating a candidate like a "Messiah," it's a readymade set up for some sick punch line and future swiftboating.

Sadly, homogenous hero worship makes Obama look even more like the Democrat's Reagan -- a faithbased persona kept alive because everyone believes everyone's supposed to believe it. Let's not do that.

I've been open to feeling the Obama magic. It's just not there for me. For those who remember the originals he is compared too, he's a bit too self-conscious, imitative, slick. Like most everything else these days, have ya noticed?

In 2004, Obama made a speech. He reminded a "Greed Is Good," conspicuous consumption, Generation Me nation (created by the worship of the fake hero Reagan) that We're. All. In. This. Together. That's it.

If you lived during the era -- and knew personally -- the giants that Barack Obama is compared to and 40 years later had to appear on "Politainment Tonight," you might want to cut someone's nuts off. Jesse Jackson has a right to speak his mind. We DON'T have a right to hear what he said (wired but privately) but the GOTCHA game tabloidizes the news. What else is said in studios "off" camera that DOESN'T get publicized? Why is Jackson being grilled by grinning news ninnies demanding blood?

IMHO, some of Rev. Wright's defiance was due to the same effed up time warp: NOT that long ago, the nation would not have been whipped into QUITE such a manipulated frenzy so intentionally, so constantly. That's where we live now. Who's gonna change that?

Who's gonna cut the nuts off the corporations that rule the media and turn culture and politics into a schizophrenic, tacky farce?

Obama may seem to "talk down" to all of us, not just black people. He's a player and some of it -- sorry, Obama lovers -- comes off contrived. I don't pretend to know his motivations or sincerity. No one really does. But when he drops letters off his words, says words like "humilitah" or "sinceritah" with a little too much preacher-speak flourish, it sounds like an act, not an accent.

Meanwhile, let's not cut off each other's nuts.


The Audacity of Listening
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/10/opinion/10collins.html
July 10, 2008
Op-Ed Columnist
The Audacity of Listening
By GAIL COLLINS

We have to have a talk about Barack Obama.

I know, I know. You’re upset. You think the guy you fell in love with last spring is spending the summer flip-flopping his way to the right. Drifting to the center. Going all moderate on you. So you’re withholding the love. Also possibly the money.

I feel your pain. I just don’t know what candidate you’re talking about.

Think back. Why, exactly, did you prefer Obama over Hillary Clinton in the first place? Their policies were almost identical — except his health care proposal was more conservative. You liked Barack because you thought he could get us past the old brain-dead politics, right? He talked — and talked and talked — about how there were going to be no more red states and blue states, how he was going to bring Americans together, including Republicans and Democrats.

Exactly where did everybody think this gathering was going to take place? Left field?

When an extremely intelligent politician tells you over and over and over that he is tired of the take-no-prisoners politics of the last several decades, that he is going to get things done and build a “new consensus,” he is trying to explain that he is all about compromise. Even if he says it in that great Baracky way.

more
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/10/opinion/10collins.html

[EFerrari]

1. I can't really criticize Obama since he won the "politicians the way we like them"

contest.

They're not really actors, they're not statesmen, they're more media events that happen over time.

[omega minimo]

2. I was surprised that more Democrats did not see

John Edwards as having BOTH qualities that were "either/or" in the previous two "media event" pres. elections:

Smart (not dumb) AND Likeable (not threatening)

[EFerrari]

3. I know. What happened there?

Maybe one wing of the party had to one up Hillary's first viable woman card? There is a struggle -- okay, maybe a scuffle or even a polite disagreement -- in the party right now. The DLC isn't going down easy and the seems to be a new coalition coalescing. I don't think we'll know what happened until after November.

[omega minimo]

4. Democrats might as well realize they've lost the left and the interest of those

whose votes they take for granted.


Time to garden...........

[Captain Hilts]

16. Me too. Edwards just wasn't on radar screens as you'd expect. nt

[JohnnyLib2]

6. The word "pastiche" came to me early this year.

Can't seem to forget it.

[omega minimo]

7. I love pastiche ice cream

:thumbsup:

[JohnnyLib2]

10. With nuts, of course.

:evilgrin:

[omega minimo]

23. mmmmmfffhhhphppfhhh

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

9. That seems very apt, imho.

There are things about Obama that I really enjoy. And on the whole, yes, a pastiche -- which is a big improvement over the flat repetition we've endured so many other years. lol

[sniffa]

5. .

[hedgehog]

8. Why are you listening to the "corporations that rule the media and turn culture and politics into a

schizophrenic, tacky farce" ? Obama hasn't spent "the summer flip-flopping his way to the right. Drifting to the center. Going all moderate on you. " The people I see pushing this meme are either follow-the-pack journalists or else people who didn't like Obama before and are desperately seeking a reason not to like him now.


The role of President is different than the role of Senator. I think you will surprised to see how well Obama does as president, but I doubt you'll ever admit it!

[EFerrari]

11. I'm none of those things and I agree with the OP.

I like Obama a lot, actually. He's the most interesting politician that the Democratic Party has come up with in a long, long time.

But, he is an establishment politician. He can't drift to a center or to a moderation he has always inhabited. He'll be a good president in terms of what is available in "good" right now if you happen to be on the left, which isn't much and hasn't been for forty years.


For some of us, it isn't necessary to embrace a politician when trying to get them elected is the best you can do honestly.

That isn't much of a campaign slogan, though. "Just vote already!"

lol :)

[hedgehog]

13. Rachel Maddow ran a story on Countdown the other night

that included clips going back several months showing that Obama hasn't changed his stands. Mario Cuomo used to run into the same criticism. He didn't fit on the Right-Left line because he was off on a new direction. Where are all the people who posted during Primary season that a sitting US Senator would have a hard time running precisely because the nature of the Senate requires compromise votes? Agree or disagree with the vote, at least make note that Obama wasn't happy with it, either. He hasn't shifted his position, but he's working to get the best package he can out of a closely divided Senate.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#25576949

On edit - her story was about his position on Iraq rather than FISA.

[EFerrari]

14. I largely agree with that.

And part of not needing to "fall in love" with a candidate is not needing to care if he's happy or not. If he beats McCain, that's what we need. It's not sexy but it's true.

[Captain Hilts]

17. His Iraq position has not changed. Correct. His comments on the Supremes' Gun ruling...

his support for continuing the embargo on Cuba, etc. disappointed me big time.

[omega minimo]

24. Did you read the "Audacity of Listening" piece linked?

That's how I see it. Neutral.

[omega minimo]

26. I'm not. But we all live there now.

"Who's gonna cut the nuts off the corporations that rule the media and turn culture and politics into a schizophrenic, tacky farce?"

[NattPang]

12. You have a right to your opinion

just like we all do.

Barack Obama is a player in the big leagues, I agree.
BTW, he is in the heavyweight category,
even if accused of being an empty suit,
which he isn't.

But I find Barack Obama as authentic and sincere,
and probably more so, than many candidates before him.

The giants of 40 years ago, became giants after-the-fact.

Many, at the time, were not as well loved and respected,
as is rumored in our current era.
Martin Luther King was wiretaped by our government,
and vilified by some in the press and many American citizens.
John F. Kennedy only won by 100,000 votes,
and Robert Kennedy was not a shoo in as the nominee
at the time that he was assassinated.
That puts Obama in his exact rightful place in the 08 election;
he is no shoo-in, some mistrust him, and others don't yet know him.

Maybe for you Obama doesn't do it in terms of "magic"
because instead of listening to his ideas,
you may be too busy searching out flaws with how he communicates them;
searching for a needle in a haystack is never easy,
and could require close concentration on the messenger,
rather than on the message as it comes through.

If I were to examine everything as closely as
whether an "r" is left off at some point and not at another,
than I would be no better than the television channels
you seem to chastise for their own gotcha games.

Politics is supposed to be about ideas,
and elections are about voting for the person
most believed to get those ideas implemented.

Obama talks to us as if we are adults.
True that some voters may be unaccustomed
to Obama's tone when he is making his appeal,
but to say it is "talking down" is simplistic at best;
as it underestimates our capacity to not take offense
when a politician is telling us what we need to hear,
as opposed to what we want to hear.

That is why I am voting for Barack Obama;
because apart from being skillfull politician,
a real honest to goodness human being,
and a man who I believe will do the right thing when in office,
This country has long been ready for the set of ideas he presents,
and how he presents them.

[omega minimo]

25. you are doing to this OP what you suggest the OP is doing...............

"because instead of listening to his ideas,
you may be too busy searching out flaws with how he communicates them;"

"if I were to examine everything as closely as
whether an "r" is left off at some point and not at another,
than I would be no better than the television channels
you seem to chastise for their own gotcha games."

Way to miss my point in order to make yours!! :thumbsup:





"But I find Barack Obama as authentic and sincere,
and probably more so, than many candidates before him."

That's fine. I don't begrudge anyone their impression of him.


"The giants of 40 years ago, became giants after-the-fact."

That's not true. We're talking about their Presence. The vitality in the moment.





"Obama talks to us as if we are adults.
True that some voters may be unaccustomed
to Obama's tone when he is making his appeal,
but to say it is "talking down" is simplistic at best;
as it underestimates our capacity to not take offense
when a politician is telling us what we need to hear,
as opposed to what we want to hear."

Obama may talk to us "as if we are adults." (I know what you mean -- he's articulate and doesn't try to hide his intelligence).

However, forgive me for saying this: He doesn't say much :yoiks: (see OP on the 2004 speech)

As I said, I relate to "talking down to ____ people" with the little act or accent thing, the PERFORMANCE, the sense that he's watching himself as we are... it's self conscious. You may criticize me for observing that (and because of the times we live in, it's practically inevitable) and may strike some folks as condescending. :shrug:


He's does seem like a "real human being" and that's something!!

[scarletwoman]

15. Funny, I don't feel the least bit that I "got played". I went for Obama with eyes wide open, knowing

full well that he was well within the mainstream of the current U.S. political paradigm.

I'm a smart enough leftist to know that revolution comes from the bottom up, not from electoral politics. All I want or expect from a Dem presidential candidate is intelligence and some consideration given to the welfare of the masses. Any real "movement" building has to come from US, not someone holding elective office.

I'm damn sick of people complaining about what Obama is not. Leaders are part of the elite, it's just silly to treat them as anything other than that. You hope for someone in the ranks of the elite to be mindful of the needs of the common people, but you DON'T look for them to overturn the System itself.

I like him because he's genuinely personally likeable; plus he has a sharp wit, he's thoughtful, and he's put together a damn fine campaign organization. And I honestly believe he can win this election.

That's really all I want from him: to win the election. Having Obama as president creates a space for US to build up a movement for TRUE change from the bottom, because Obama in the White House would repesent a decisive defeat of the howling fascist hordes on the right. That's worth quite a bit right there, don't you think?

sw

[Captain Hilts]

18. You must have missed the "he's more progressive than Feingold" threads. nt

[scarletwoman]

19. Apparently, since I never saw any. (nt)

[Blue_In_AK]

20. Exactly.

Obama was never a progressive, and never will be. I think I'm with sfexpat2000 on this one. Obama seems to be the best we can do right now, but we don't have to be in love with him -- just vote.

[omega minimo]

22. Thanks for a great post and perspective

:fistbump:

[scarletwoman]

27. You're welcome -- thanks for the fistbump!

I'm rather surprised that you found my post all these days after I made it, but I'm glad you did!

sw

[Eyes_wide_ open]

21. Astute observations

Having spent my entire adult life not being "Joe Six pack" but living in his world, my perspective is a bit different than most here at DU. To say I am not a political junkie would be a massive understatement, honestly I detest politics (ack- please don't stone me!). However Bush, being the monster he is, has made me quite aware of my responsibility in this process and this year I knew I had to be more informed, to do my part to end the madness. My search led me here.

As an Independent voter I didn't participate in the primaries, although I did watch them closely, so I'm not nearly as attached to the different names thrown around as many of those here seem to be. I was glad when BHO was chosen because that was the choice I would have made. I liked what he had say, I loved how he handled his campaign, and he is an inspirational speaker ... he ignited a spark of hope in this very jaded woman so yes, I do see the magic.

That being said, yes, I also see the smooth player. He is not "just" a politician, he is exceptionally good one. And let's face it, were that not there he wouldn't have a shot at this if it weren't for the fact that our country has been through hell the last eight years and even the sheeple are waking up to that, and McSame is such a loser. There are few ways we can lose with such a perfect set of circumstances and such a good candidate, but they do exist so we need to stay on our toes.

I've been a bit taken aback here at DU, by the willingness of so many to "eat your own" so to speak. The main tool of the neo-con RW is fear, and it's sad to see that after 8 years of refusing to bow to that mindset that the one place I thought would be free from that is rank with it. I can see the reaction to the PUMA crowd as nothing else. I don't think they do either which is why their having so much fun yanking your chains. Ignore them and they'll go away. You aren't going to change their minds anyway, they aren't one of you. But please don't go off on a nut every time someone uses the word "concern" in a post because you think it's one of "THEM". I saw that again last night, and it wasn't pretty.

Nobody is going to agree with you on everything, all the time, never going to happen. Dissent makes us stronger, intelligent discussion makes us more knowledgeable. Those are not bad things. The more you scream STFU the less likely anyone is going to hear anything you have to say. It is only HERE at DU that I've seen where the idea of "cult" comes from. Nobody's perfect, not even our candidate, and certainly not me. Nobody has to listen to what I have to say, it's just offered because I'd really like to get past this and on to more constructive things. I expect I'm rambling now so I'll just leave it at that.

K&R