Why is Wes Clark now off the VP list? What are we, weenies?

[NYC_SKP]

I've seen three DU polls that fail to include Wes Clark as an possible running mate for Barack Obama.

It's true that Obama distanced himself from Clark's comments on Face the Nation, and this may have been unnecessary.
It's not impossible that Clark has been put on the back burner as a matter of strategy.
But beyond that, I've not seen any statements by Clark or Obama to suggest that he is no longer under consideration.

Clark's statements were true, and were totally overblown by the media, and this seems to have convinced many of us that it's all over for Clark.

"Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president."

If we are now going to buckle because of how the MSM handles something like this, then we haven't learned a thing from the past.

If all it takes to sink a potential pick is being tough and honest in speaking out against the opponent, then we might as well concede right now.

We'd better grow a backbone, and quick.

:patriot:

[JBoris]

1. I thought he was off the list the moment Hillary had him say that Obama is not ready n/t

[NYC_SKP]

2. You mean Leiberman?

"Lieberman, asked if he believes Barack Obama is not ready to be POTUS: "John McCain is more ready to be president on foreign and domestic policy because of his extraordinary experience. And it's good experience. It's experience where he's had the guts to do what's right for his country, including in Iraq, where he opposed the administration policy for a long time.""

I hadn't heard Clark say such a thing about Obama, enlighten me.

:shrug:

[JBoris]

8. link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4959434

[NYC_SKP]

17. Campaign blather from March, IMO.

"Former NATO commander Wesley Clark, a Clinton supporter, called the comments "disturbing," and he accused Obama of not being prepared enough to be commander in chief and properly oversee an end to the Iraq war.'

After all, hasn't Ted Strickland been floated, the same man who nodded his head so pathetically to Hillary's "shame on you, Barack Obama"?

I don't think the comments from March disqualify Clark.

He and Obama had been hanging out a bit leading up to the interview last week. I dunno.

[JBoris]

18. I hope you're right, I'd really like to see him on the ticket! n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

20. Notice that wasn't a direct quote?

This is the same media that says Clark attacked McCain's military service telling you what to think Clark said. He was actually much more carefuol than that. Clark never gave them that sound bite, they made it up for a header. Actual quotes can be found in my post below.

[NYC_SKP]

22. I did, it was pretty third hand.

Which is why I pasted it (having come from a link to a link....from March).

[JBoris]

24. Wow, I guess you're right. Maybe Clark isn't as politically unsavy as people say. n/t

[JBoris]

11. ...and no, lol, I would NEVER confuse Lieberman with Clark! n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

19. Because Clark didn't exactly say that

In some ways like the flap about Clark supposedly "dishonoring McCain's miligtary service", words were put into Clark's mouth by headline writers.

Yes he was backing up Hillary's Clinton's positon, acting as a surrogate, that she had the plans that made her ready from day one, but Wes Clark never made a comment flat out saying Obama wasn't ready to be Commander in Chief. It was in the context of a flap about comments made by an Obama surrogate, and Clark said things like this:

WES(on the Samantha Power Iraq quote):
I found the comments quite disturbing - because to get out of Iraq is gonna be very difficult, and if you don't go into it with some fixed ideas in mind --and I think Senator Clinton's plan has it exactly right, You've got to do it with a responsible withdrawal- You've got to know when you're gonna begin, and you've gotta work it through -- if you simply show up and say "OK now what's this all about?" You're gonna own the war. (bad cell reception here)

Iraq ---there will be concerns of chaos and pandemonium, there'll be concerns about renewed civil war, neighbors in the region will be concerned--- It's gonna take a REAL STRENGTH OF CHARACTER to execute a pullback from Iraq and to preserve America's interests in the region at the same time. And that means KNOWING where you're headed before you start down the path. So, I think what you've got from senator Clinton is a real plan that indicates the strength of character necessary to lead the nation and be a Commander in Chief of the armed forces.

I'm quite concerned about what we've heard from the Obama camp today, because I'm not sure exactly where it leaves us, but I'm quite concerned that it will leave us... still at war.

Thank you General Clark - Next Jamie Rubin
http://securingamerica.com/ccn/node/14953#comment-289377

Clark was doing his job well as a Clinton supporter at the time, but he never said Obama wasn't prepared enough to be Commander in Chief. That did not happen.

[MonkeyFunk]

9. "Hillary had him say"?

Damn, she's even more powerful than I thought.

[JBoris]

12. I meant it was part of her camp's rhetoric, not that she forced him. n/t

[opihimoimoi]

16. I guess both sides reading TEA LEAVES,,,waiting for the signs/reasons

[PurityOfEssence]

3. Because outside of this board and a few other enclaves, he doesn't have much support

Fair or not, it's the truth.

His supporters have traditionally been VERY vocal and numerous on this board, probably being the BIGGEST bloc in the '04 election. Elsewhere, he's not very well known.

He was also a Clinton supporter, so perhaps Obama and his brain trust are a little less than charitable toward him. Much as the Obama campaign feigns some kind of noble above-it-all humanity, they're human beings, too, and things stick in people's craws.

The rampant speculation is amusing to watch, but doesn't amount to a whole lot.

Hell, he's got one of my VERY favorite politicians in his inner circle and I'd leap for joy if he'd run with Jan Schakowsky, but she's probably deemed radioactive for being so vehemently anti-IWR and such. Chances are he'll pick a moderate-to-right southern white guy.

If he's serious about Florida (which he should be) he might think about Bob Graham...

[scarletwoman]

7. Bob Graham -- THAT'S an interesting thought. Glad you brought it up!

Admittedly, I don't know much about him outside of his stance on the IRW vote, but my overall impression at the time was that he's a good guy.

sw

[Occam Bandage]

4. I've seen no comments suggesting that he was ever on it.

[NYC_SKP]

14. Are Hagel, Casey, Rendell, or Warner on the list?

Because they've been included in the polls to which I refer.

I'm not aware of the existence of an official list, only those lists fabricated by the media or dreamt up by others.

If there's a list, please share!

:hi:

[smoogatz]

5. What makes you think he was ever on it?

Just curious.

[krispos42]

6. I'd like to see Clark as the Nat'l Security Advisor

Or SecDef, but probably ANSA would be better. It's not subject to confirmation by the Senate and it would give Wes the freedom to give Obama straight and honest advice.


That female general that Bush shitcanned after she told Congress we'd need a boatload more troops than what we were sending, she should be SecDef!

[jobycom]

10. Public opinion matters more than what's right or wrong.

Like it or not, what the general public perceives is more important than reality. They don't vote based on reality, they vote on what they perceive, and that, sadly, is often controlled by the media. Ask Clinton about that. She was slandered, she lost because people believed it.

We need to worry more about shielding Obama from media misrepresentation than Clark. Clark was a weak consideration, anyway, considering all the times he said Obama wasn't qualified. Why would Obama want someone with endless soundbytes praising Bush, condemning Obama, and getting into (undeserved) fracas over McCain's military service? Plenty of other choices without feet in their mouths.

Anyway, it doesn't matter who they put on a poll, it only matters who Obama and his team decide on, so whether Clark's in the running or not has nothing to do with polls.

[Sensitivity]

13. The only one we are sure was on SHORT LIST was JIM WEBB. An he sure got hammered for anything

from women's issues to confederacy related comments. Best that Clark stay off the official lists, even though he is just
as likely as any of the favorites being lobbied for.

[iamjoy]

15. Clark Is Not Politically Astute

General Clark is a smart man, and has some solid qualifications to be VP (or President). But, Clark does not have political gravitas. His comments about McSame are just one example. Oh, he was telling the truth, but he had to know how that would sound.

All candidates say politically stupid things from time to time, but when mixed with several brilliant, astute observations, the stupid stuff is written off as a gaffe. When you have some one like Clark (or think back to Perot in 1992)*, it's a lot harder to overcome.

The crazy thing is, so many Americans scream about how we need change and they are sick of the same old politics. But when a politician says something honest (whether true or not) but not politically correct, people jump all over them.

:shrug:

* This is not to say Clark and Perot are the same, I hold them up as two examples of people who came from outside the political arena to run for office. I could also point to Jesse Ventura and all the politically dumb things he has said, although some of them ring true.

[NYC_SKP]

21. Quayle, Agnew, Ford....

They all won, go figure!

I agree, he's not seasoned and smarmy, he might need handlers.

But he's smart and pretty tough, and he brings that global and military experience.

We could do worse than Clark.

[iamjoy]

34. Ford Doesn't Count

He was never elected to national office. I'm not that familiar with Agnew. As for Quayle, he wasn't picked to counter-balance any perceived weakness on the part of George HW Bush, and Quayle had been a Senator, so he knew about running a large campaign and how the process works.

I agree, we could do worse than Clark. And if he is picked as Obama's running mate, I hope he isn't over-handled. I think that was one of the many things that went wrong with the Gore campaign.

[scarletwoman]

23. Since no one on DU has the faintest idea of who actually IS on Obama's VP list,

it's all utterly meaningless and useless blather anyway.

sw

[NYC_SKP]

25. There might have been something official, I wondered why the polls had..

..excluded him, searched Google news for answers, found nothing.

I now feel pretty confident that there is no reason not to include him.

And, sorry that I needed to post to get info, I've been working the fires uphill from Paradise, CA., Internet but no cable since the Clark interview.

:hi:

[scarletwoman]

28. Sorry you've been on the fire line! My sympathies for all of you out there!

And as you've said, there's NOTHING official -- there never HAS been. Obama has made it very clear that the decision will be announced when it's been made, and nothing else was going to said about the VP slot before that.

DU is just being DU, as usual. Full of sound and fury signifying nothing.

:hi:
sw

[NYC_SKP]

30. Hey sw, thanks for the support. Things are calming down.

I'm on a break and can continue my summer unless we get flareups or a new event.

:hi:

[scarletwoman]

31. Glad to hear the good news. Best of luck to you!

:hi:

[Sparkly]

26. That was the purpose of the overblown brouhaha

Unfortunately, it looks like the Obama campaign fell for it -- based on their response. Amazing. :crazy:

[AllentownJake]

27. Stayin on message

Wes showed he can't do that, that week and gave everyone an opportunity in the media to let McCain to talk about his military career and what a swell pilot and hero he was.

I'm not a weanie however I don't think attacking McCain on his service is a winning issue when there is so much more to talk about in regards to why he wouldn't be a good President.

[CTyankee]

29. I love Wes Clark. However, I don't want to see the Obama campaign mired in explanations

about what Clark said for the umpteenth time. I was hopeful that his remarks wouldn't be used against us, but my first instinct should have told me that the MSM would just continue to harp on it, completely distorting what Clark actually said.

So that's it I guess for Clark as VP. Who wants the campaign just to be about this one thing overa and over again? We all know what our media does, don't we?

[Sensitivity]

32. Would love to know that CLARK WAS ON LIST but have seen or heard that from anyone? Anyone have

link to relevant story.

[kentuck]

33. In answer to your question:

yes.

[tyedyeto]

35. DU polls mean NOTHING to the Democratic Party

Sorry, but that's the way it works. Online communities and their polls mean nothing to those higher-up within the party.