Coalition of 27 groups opposes the FISA bill.

[madfloridian]

I think we need to stop trying to rationalize why this vote is happening. It appears that it is happening because it is easier than any alternative.

Here is the list of the groups who oppose it strongly:

Coalition Opposes Senator Bond's FISA Legislation

What the bill will do.

The bill would authorize massive warrantless surveillance.

The bill would require no individualized warrant even when an American’s communications clearly are of interest to the government.

The bill would curtail effective judicial review of surveillance.

The bill would grant retroactive immunity for wrongdoing.

The bill would not provide a reasonable sunset.

The list of groups which oppose the bill is most impressive.

The proposed bill would grant unnecessary and unconstitutional powers to the Executive Branch. We urge you oppose it, and to vote against any legislation that contains the defects described above.

Thank you for considering our views.

American Civil Liberties Union

American Library Association

Arab-America Anti-Discrimination Committee

Association of Research Libraries

Bill of Rights Defense Committee

Center for American Progress Action Fund

Center for Democracy & Technology

Center for National Security Studies

Congressman Bob Barr, Liberty Strategies

Defending Dissent Foundation

Doug Bandow, Vice President for Policy, Citizen Outreach Project

DownsizeDC.org, Inc.

Electronic Frontier Foundation

Fairfax County Privacy Council

Friends Committee on National Legislation

League of Women Voters of the United States

Liberty Coalition

MAS Freedom

OMB Watch

Open Society Policy Center

OpenTheGovernment.org

People For the American Way

Privacy Lives

Republican Liberty Caucus

The Multiracial Activist

United Methodist Church, General Board of Church and Society

U.S. Bill of Rights Foundation

Our party is doing the wrong thing. They know they are doing it, because Steny Hoyer even admitted they brought it to a vote to keep the Blue Dogs from voting on something worse.

How very sad, how very pathetic.

That is what we have come to as a party.

I compare this to the vote to invade and occupy Iraq. It was the easiest thing to do at the time.

How tragic. How sad.

[madfloridian]

1. Those who oppose here at DU are now called "panic stricken" "sky is falling" martyrs

.

[redqueen]

4. There are degrees of opposition.

And different ways of stating one's opposition.

[madfloridian]

5. Well, when the vote is done....it will be like it never happened.

Just like every other issue we ever cared about or took seriously.

We will all fall in line and be good soldiers.

[geek tragedy]

7. There's "this bill sucks" and then there's

"ZOMG Obama is just like Bush and we are DOOMED."

[madfloridian]

8. That is not me. I don't do that. Don't use broad brushes

.

[redqueen]

9. Um... what about YOUR broad brush statement, in post 1?

[madfloridian]

11. It's true.

There is a movement going on here now to rationalize this bill.

People are being made to look bad if they still oppose it. Like we are extremists or whatever names were called in the Halperin post.

One man supports it, 27 groups oppose it....and we are made to feel guilty for speaking out.

[redqueen]

12. No, it's not.

Read post 7 again.

I seriously wonder if people aren't *trying* to conflate things in order to make up stuff to argue about.

[madfloridian]

14. Yes, I am trying to cause trouble here by speaking the truth.

:sarcasm:

[redqueen]

17. Who said you were trying to cause trouble by "speaking the truth"?

:wtf:

In post 7, someone tried to explain to you which types of opposition get someone labeled as those names you listed.

You responded to with a command that that person not use a broad brush. Pretty ironic, considering your previous use of an *actual* broad brush statement, and also because the post you responded to *clearly delineated* between the two types.



As for "extremists or whatever names were called in the Halperin post"... :wtf:

What names? I asked you there, too... are you talking about people's comments? Did Halperin call anyone who disagrees names?


"we are made to feel guilty for speaking out."

How are you made to feel guilty?

[Two Americas]

47. that makes no sense whatsoever

Clearly, you and others would rather that the subject not get discussed at all, so we have these endless nit-picking and mean-spirited posts in an attempt at disrupting any discussion about it and raising tempers and discouraging people.

There is nothing wrong with what madfloridian is doing, and many of us want to read and discuss what she has to say.

[geek tragedy]

16. Well, very few people are saying you shouldn't

criticize the FISA bill.

[madfloridian]

19. Maybe

you missed it.

[highplainsdem]

2. I agree. K & R.

[redqueen]

3. Are you watching the debate?

Are they back from lunch break yet?

[madfloridian]

6. I have not been watching any TV except movies.

I may watch Countdown most days. I turned on CNN and MSNBC for just a few minutes yesterday...hubby and I decided they talked like we were stupid and turned it off.

[Mojorabbit]

10. I oppose the bill too

and I have made numerous phone calls today. If there is one thing politicians worry about it is getting reelected. I am all for lighting a fire under their butts. It might not do anything to change their vote in the end but I am doing my part as a citizen. Personally, I am ashamed at the members of this board that are ok with this bill but that is just me.

[madfloridian]

13. I don't think they think there will be consequence. But I agree with you.

After tomorrow it will be okay. The vote will be over, we will live with the consequences.

I never thought I would see the agreement with such a bill here.

[lark]

27. Lemmings on the right

very similar in actions to lemmings on the left. In the rush to annoint Obama, any infraction will be forgiven by some - because he's better than McCain. That's so very true, but every day he seems to move closer and closer to the Bush/McCain way of thinking.

We have to hold Obama and the rest of the expedient Dems' feet to the fire by speaking out, writing letters, making phone calls, this is important folks.

[unapatriciated]

15. You are not alone....

my calls and e-mails might not accomplish a change but at least I did not give up my fourth amendment without a fight.
If I say nothing this would be the result. :argh:

[barbtries]

43. i'm surprised any member of this board

is okay with this bill. i feel like we should be having a funeral for the 4th amendment.

i'm now looking ahead to the supreme court throwing it out. except - shit! - it's full of bushies. no where to run.

[slipslidingaway]

18. K&R :) n/t

[madfloridian]

20. Bob Barr video....speaking against it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x152714

[paparush]

21. If this thing passes, there will never be any testimony heard in any US court...

And this is EXACTLY what Bush** and Congress want.

Congress is complicit in this crime.

[The Backlash Cometh]

26. Why do they keep protecting the other party?

Don't they realize that each time they do this, it just destroys the integrity of our own country and implodes their little bubbles. It's like the destruction of Rome. We'll have to give our kids remedial lessons as far as the crap they're teaching in school.

[paparush]

28. I think they are protecting themselves. I think they KNEW exactly what was going on

and walked arm in arm with Bush/Cheney, knowing that ultimately they (Congress) would control the public's access to the truth.

Not wanting to appear "weak on Terror", they went along with this shite.

The 2006 midterms meant nothing.

It breaks my frigging heart to realize that now.

[Pacifist Patriot]

22. Wow! Look at all those radical fringe groups.

:sarcasm:

[slipslidingaway]

23. Coalition of groups that support the new FISA bill...

.

[madfloridian]

24. Groups of blogs and others...Strange Bedfellows group.

Politics makes strange bedfellows

"Political interests can bring together people who otherwise have little in common. This saying is adapted from a line in the play The Tempest, by William Shakespeare: “Misery acquaints a man with strange bedfellows.” It is spoken by a man who has been shipwrecked and finds himself seeking shelter beside a sleeping monster."

http://accountabilitynowpac.com/sponsors.php

Rick Williams and Trevor Lyman BreakTheMatrix.com
Glenn Greenwald Salon.com
Jane Hamsher firedoglake.com
Matt Stoller Open Left
John Amato Crooks and Liars
Howie Klein Down with Tyranny
Digby
Josh Nelson The Seminal
Josh Koster
Ari Melber The Nation
Ellie Elliott firedoglake
Daniel Fejes Pruning Shears
Scott Cory scory
Lori Coulson A Study in Scarlet
John Rahe Red State Blues
Michael Petro Deconstructing The Manifest
Alice Weiss ruthhmiller
tom barclay Making Light
Matt Ortega MattOrtega.com
Teddy Partridge FireDogLake
Eric Hoffpauir Show Me Progress
David Dayen D-Day
Blue Girl Blue Girl, Red State
Jeff Tiedrich The Smirking Chimp
Ollie Ox Bluestem Prairie
Tom Swan CCAG
Kenneth Quinnell Florida Progressive Coalition
Phillip Anderson the albany project
firedoglake
Paul Suriano hs3144
William A. Estlick firedog lake
Jasen Johns www.noblog.com
William Wilson The Liberal Patriot
Vihar Sheth green | rising
Kirk James Murphy, M.D. Fatherland Diaries
Brendan Skwire Brendan Calling
toby martin firedoglake
Max Bernstein Max and the Marginalized
Evan Derkacz Religion Dispatches magazine
David Neiwert Orcinus

There are 4 pages full.

[slipslidingaway]

25. I've already pledged to donate on August 8th :) n/t

[madfloridian]

29. From Wired: Online Movement of activists from the right and the left

Online activists from the right and the left announced an unprecedented campaign Tuesday to hold Democratic lawmakers accountable for caving in to the Bush administration on domestic spying.

I will financially support this effort as I cease to donate to those who got support from DFA folks and then sold us out. Making changes.

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/07/online-activist.html

"A group of high-profile progressive bloggers and libertarian Republicans are rolling out a new political action committee called Accountability Now to channel widespread anger over pending legislation that would legalize much of the president's warrantless electronic surveillance of Americans, and grant retroactive legal immunity to telephone companies that cooperated with the spying when it was still illegal.

Progressive author and lawyer Glenn Greenwald, who writes for Salon.com, and blogger Jane Hamsher of Firedoglake, are spearheading the effort. They've hired the political media consultants behind a historic Ron Paul online fundraising drive to organize a similar "moneybomb," set to go off Aug. 8.

"That is the day Richard Nixon resigned, and the idea is that 35 years ago when you did this kind of stuff, you were forced out of office, and now congress drops everything to make your crimes legal," says Hamsher in an interview.

The campaign marks a milestone in the evolution of online grassroots organizing. The PAC is cherry-picking the tactics and tools that proved most successful in the presidential primary campaigns, and is using them to corral online support for the single issue of domestic spying. The PAC's money pay for advertisements in the districts of the House Democrats who voted for the spy bill -- potentially causing problems for those capitulating on the Bush wiretapping program.

"The fact is, we're all entering completely new territory here," writes Micah Sifry on the TechPresident blog in a post on other, similar efforts to rally support to influence Barack Obama's vote on the pending legislation this Wednesday in the Senate. "There have always been efforts to influence political candidates to take or change positions during a campaign (or afterward), but we've never before had a national campaign create an open platform for mobilizing supporters and then seen a salient chunk of those supporters openly use that platform to challenge the candidate on a policy position."

[bertman]

30. This bill is the FORMAL ANNOUNCEMENT OF THE INVALIDATION OF OUR CONSTITUTION.

It does not matter one iota how many bloggers, how many citizens, how many experts, how many groups are against this bill. It doesn't matter one smidgen if Congress' approval is at 9% or 99%.

It's all about WHO DOES SUPPORT IT. They are our SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES, DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN, who have been bought, coerced, or co-opted into voting for it.

These folks are now in the RULING ELITE and they do not give one happy damn about you or me. They have their pay, their pensions, their lifetime health care, their campaign funds and their asshole buddies who will give them consulting positions or fat-cat jobs on K Street.

Sad to say, this demolition derby was a bipartisan effort and the DEMOCRATIC PARTY ENABLED IT.

So, send your hard-earned cash to Barack and Howard and Bill and Hillary and all the others who present themselves as keepers of our freedoms. Maybe you too can curry favor with the Masters.

My eternal gratitude to all of our ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES WHO STOOD AGAINST THIS TRAVESTY. May you long be remembered as protectors of the Constitution and all it stood for.

[Doremus]

38. Thanks for posting this! I made my pledge and will spread the word! n/t

[madfloridian]

39. You are welcome. The efforts won't end after the vote tomorrow.

In fact they are just beginning.

[ooglymoogly]

31. This bill is a treasonous diisgrace to any one who is not

a conniving thug. If Gore or someone equally brilliant stepped into the race I am sure 90% of all dems would hoist him on their backs and run for the goal post. Such an anger on this issue is rising it may just start an unstoppable forest fire. For anyone who missed it we have just been served notice that We the People can take our constitution and shove it.

[windoe]

32. First we hear that domestic spying is a crime,

and the pResident may be guilty of doing that, then this may be put into law. What planet are we on, and who thinks we are all morans??

Keep the pressure on this one, though I think the electronics are already in place.

[madfloridian]

33. Good coverage on Countdown tonight by Maddow and Turley.

.

[sourmilk]

34. Agreed.

The bill pretty much sanctions previous illegal activity by the Telecoms and does away with the 4th Amendment in ints entirety.

There is a feeling of betrayal here, too, as Obama repeatedly promised to filibuster the bill during the primaries.

I'm very disappointed in his decision to help undermine the Constitution.

That being said, does anyone believe that the BFEE would stop illegally gathering information via wholesale wiretapping if this bill was defeated? Does anyone believe that, regardless of the outcome of any vote on immunity, Telecoms will ever be required to cough up one red cent in compensatory damages? Does anyone believe that any officer of any telecom company will ever be convicted of a crime in connection with this? Considering the list of OTHER impeachable offenses the BFEE have committed, does anyone believe that Shrub or Darth Cheney will ever be convicted, or even indicted / impeached for anything connected to this?

They've been illegally listening to all of us since Echelon, remember? I really hate to see this type of activity enshrined into a Senate Resolution / Bill, but it makes no difference whatsoever in the real world.

I'm still disappointed, though.

[madfloridian]

36. Didn't Echelon require a warrant first?

[sourmilk]

37. It did during the Clinton Administrations.

During the BFEE Junta years, no one knows for sure all of a sudden...

But of course all we ever hear from these nitwits is the "Clinton did it first" BS...

[TBF]

35. K&R

Yes, I finally read the damned thing. I'm with you.

[KoKo]

40. Kick....this coalition is an important step....

I donated when Glen Greenwald first asked. I hope to see this grow to over $300,000 in donations so that we are taken seriously. It's about time we had a coalition to preserve our Bill of Rights. This isn't a "Left or Right" issue. It's about all of us who are seeing our privacy eroded every day as new technology for profit spies on our Television Viewing or Internet Clicks, our Passports, Drivers Licenses, medical records, library use, cell phones, purchases and everything else we touch. Even in our homes "Google Earth" shows us taking out our trash and whether we park our cars in our garage or outside. Who knows what the telecoms have collected about us that they can use for whatever purpose. Who knows what members of Congress may be compromised by those in the Administration wanting to spy on them to find something to arm twist them into signing a bill or pushing legislation the Administration in Power wants to ram through.

[indepat]

41. The administration's and the Congress's retort to all 27 groups and the American people:

We don't give a flying fuck what you think, now stuff it. :grr: :mad: :D

[debbierlus]

42. Thank you for this post. It really underscores the implications of this bill K&R

Thank you.

[awoke_in_2003]

44. I am an atheist now

but I grew up United Methodist, and my grandfather was an UMC minister. The UMC opposed the invasion of Iraq, also, and were very vocal about it. Good to see they still have good leadership.

[madfloridian]

45. Make that 28

DFA has been opposing it as well.

[madfloridian]

46. Kick for those who are still insisting the right thing was done.

.

[depakid]

48. The aftermath

[GihrenZabi]

49. The Democratic Party is a vestigal organ

Bullshit like this shows you why.

They are long overdue to die and be replaced by a proper progressive party. It will be a long, slow fight, but the Left needs to abandon the Democratic Party en masse and finally form a viable, third party.

Even if it means splitting up power between Dems/Reps/Third Party, it would be a meaningful change, to get some proper Progressive representation in Federal and State government.

We desperately need it.