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HuffPo blogger: "Obama is setting a pietistic tone for the presidency to which he aspires."

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highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 09:47 AM
Original message
HuffPo blogger: "Obama is setting a pietistic tone for the presidency to which he aspires."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obamas-faith-based-govern_b_111393.html

Mayhill Fowler

Obama, God And Governance
Posted July 8, 2008 | 09:03 AM (EST)

The Senator's intention to give religious faith an important place in the public square, should he be elected president, is not a revelation. He has long argued for a connection between religion and politics. In his June 28, 2006, Keynote Address at the Call to Renewal's Building a Covenant for a New America conference, Obama talked about the need "to tackle head-on the mutual suspicion that sometimes exists between religious America and secular America." This need is "a prayer worth praying, and a conversation worth having in this country," Obama concluded. Certainly, much of the debate in the presidential primaries, both Democratic and Republican, continued this conversation. It's just that many in the press and many of Obama's liberal/progressive supporters chose to ignore the talk, likely on the assumption that Obama was just politicking. There was no need to take him at his word.

-snip-

First of all, faith would play a major and not a minor role. Building on the Bush Administration's faith-based initiatives, Obama plans to establish a new and improved and more powerful Council that will be "a critical part" of his administration, either at cabinet-level or directly under his own supervision. Whether he grasps the thorny intricacies of marrying federal guidelines with church practices is unclear, but Obama had the confidence to tell Zanesville that his Council will "help set our national agenda." So any Obama faith-based programs will be empowered and seriously funded. They also will be -- and here's the catch for the money recipients -- engaged "to train the thousands of groups that don't" know how to get federal grants. Catholic Charities, therefore, will be required to help smaller groups -- a Pentecostal store-front church, say, or an immigrant Somali mosque -- to "build and run effective programs."

Everyone is called to the public square to help one another. "We need all hands on deck," Obama said in Zanesville. And who might be our Captain? The old familiarity of this maritime metaphor shouldn't obscure its significance -- one that Obama himself may not have realized is so revealing, for it shows that he is thinking in terms of absolute authority. Those churches that accept federal monies for social programs -- they will help other religious groups. Obama has not only the confidence that comes with the will to power but also the iron control of a commander.

-snip-

From "the commitments that bind us to our nation, and to each other" (Independence speech) to "all hands on deck" (Zanesville) to "we must also serve a common purpose" (Colorado Springs) to "the ideals that stir so many of us as Americans -- pride, duty, and sacrifice" (Fargo) to "carrying out His works" (St. Louis), Barack Obama is setting a pietistic tone for the presidency to which he aspires. Obama is calling all of us to a great commingling, where he as our Leader, gentle in tone but forceful in command, will require of us that we summon our common values and our faith, if we are religious, to work together toward an "American renewal." This is a vision beyond partisanship, beyond policy, beyond Democrat or Republican, Catholic or Protestant, Evangelical or Atheist, rich or poor, black or brown or white. This is what Obama has always meant when, from the beginning of his race for the presidency, he has talked about sacrifice. To put it flippantly, this is Obama's plan to put us on a diet, ration television, reduce our individual carbon footprint, and nudge us into national service. (In his Service speech, Obama called for "a new generation of Americans to join our military.")
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bunnies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
1. Biden, Clinton, Dodd, Edwards, Richardson and Obama
ALL supported faith based initiatives. Now, suddenly, people want to wig out about it. :banghead:
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
17. Isn't it more fun though? More exciting?
Facts are boring... get outraged!
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
2. I am assuming this is NOT designed to make me feel better.
No offense to any of you doing OK with your mythology, but I want my SECULAR state maintained according to the Constitution, and ANY president after January 2009 who violates his oath of office regarding that constitution should be impeached. Immediately.

Doing this to Bush is impossible thanks to Pelosi.
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. I want a secular state as well...
...but, seeing that we aren't going to do away with religion, or religion in the public square, why not get religious institutions to do some of the "good works" <insert mythical floating godlike figure here> commanded that they do?
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HarveyBrooks Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. Go for it!
But NOT with my tax dollars!
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
3. the author of this piece does a very good job
of pointing up a thread that ran through Obama's campaign that was disregarded by many.

That thread was one of the main reasons I did not support him during the primary process.

Now we're stuck with him.

I predict that there are going to be a lot of people on the liberal and progressive left (and anyone else who wants religion out of politics) who will be very unhappy with Obama's presidency.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Do you really beleive Obama is going to be Bush 3 when it comes to faith initiatives? Come on man,..
..this reaction seems a little extreme
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. is that what I said?
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. No, nor did I say you did....the answer to my question ...? Thx in advance
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
33. nice try, kid
come back when you learn how to argue.
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HarveyBrooks Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
18. It sounds like...
he's gonna be alot worse.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
31. Exactly
I agree with you 100 percent. People saw what they wanted to see.
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GarbagemanLB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
4. This is the idiot who recorded the 'bitter' comments and Clinton's tirade against that writer, right
?


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highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Oh, hell, it is. I'd found the current blog in Google News.
Still, this is not a "gotcha" piece, as those were, going after just a few words, but an analysis of what Obama has said about religion throughout his campaign.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
6. meanwhile
By Caren Bohan ATLANTA, July 8 (Reuters) - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama on Tuesday will propose overhauling US bankruptcy laws to ease their impact on people unable to pay their bills because of medical expenses or military service.


Iraqi Leader Wants Timeline For US Pullout
AFP reports Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki "said on Monday he is negotiating a deal with Washington that will for the first time set a timetable for a withdrawal of foreign forces as part of a framework for a US troop presence into next year." While "the White House...said no 'hard date' for the withdrawal of US forces was contemplated and US officials suggested that any timetable would be dependent on conditions on the ground," it was "the first time that Baghdad's Shiite-led government has made a timetable for a US pullout a condition for a promised new agreement with the United States for a troop presence into 2009." USA Today quotes Maliki saying, "Today, we are looking at the necessity of terminating the foreign presence on Iraqi lands and restoring full sovereignty."


McLame: tax cuts for the wealthy paid for by senior citizens:

Mr. McCain said he would also slow the growth of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, and fiscal experts agree that he would need to do that to achieve his goal. But Mr. McCain did not give details of how he would alter those benefit programs, which have powerful constituencies, including older Americans, a huge health care industry and state and local government officials.

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uberblonde Donating Member (993 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. How about the impact of obscene credit practices?
The ones the senator voted to support...
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Senator McCain?
Yes, I'm sure he did vote for obscene credit practices.

I'm proud my candidate voted against the bankruptcy bill and supports the "credit card bill of rights."
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highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
14. So shouldn't you have posted this separately, the way I posted the Mother Jones article on McCain
screening questioners? Why post it as a reply in this thread?
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Contrast?
Actual Issues vs. Demagoguery?
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highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. So Obama's faith and his direct appeals to people of faith aren't "actual issues"?
Or they're just actual issues you'd prefer not to see brought up?
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. ...
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LowerManhattanite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. I see the board's daily “oppo”-research arm is in full swing again. LOL. n/t
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. It is a non-issue in the campaign between Obama and McSame.
I cannot think of any purpose for bringing this up over and over again other than to divide and demoralize Obama's supporters. It is an issue only between Obama supporters. This and several other similar issues are being pushed, along with a bullshit coporate media narrative of 'flip-flopping', to distract demoralize and divide Obama's support.

Obama has made his faith a part of his campaign from the outset.
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highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. That blogger apparently agrees with your last statement there.
I'm sure she'd disagree -- and Obama would disagree -- that his faith and his outreach to those of faith, and religious groups, should be viewed as a "non-issue" in the campaign.

And if this is something that will "divide and demoralize Obama's supporters," something that you feel shouldn't be brought up, then what sort of game are we supposed to play here? Pretend Obama is purely secular in progressive forums with a lot of atheists and agnostics, and present him as a man of faith when talking to those of faith? There can be no approach more divisive than that, and I consider that sort of pretense demoralizing.

It makes me very uncomfortable that many Obama supporters are clearly uncomfortable with this aspect of his life and candidacy. But I'm less bothered by the secular supporters who are honest about being a bit less than happy with his outreach to religious groups, than I am with his supporters who'd simply like to bury the issue because it is something not all his supporters agree on.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #14
26. no
'cause I dislike your OP and rather than continuing the discussion in another thread, I am continuing it right here, explaining both directly and indirectly why I think your OP is bullshit.
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blogslut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
10. Another goldleaf turd from Mayhill Fowler
Everybody wants to be a star.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
15. Ahhhh, Mayhill, Mayhill, Mayhill, your five minutes of fame are over.
You failed to take Obama out with your cell-phone recording of Obama's bitterness remarks. This attempt is far more lame.
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MarjorieG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
21. Mayhill, past and current supporter of McCain. I'm Bitter about you...
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Isn't it nice that her work is still valued and posted here?
And after it's discovered who wrote it... it's still argued as if it's credible / meaningful?

Lovely place, this.
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LowerManhattanite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. Indeed...
The “journalist” who wrote hit jobs on BOTH Obama and Clinton is now a wise and sage second coming of Murrow as she works her McCain-loving mojo to fuck over the nominee.

But hey...“Let's hold feet to the fire”/“Accountability! Squawk! Accountability!”/“I'm Free To Hit Job Criticize—I'm doin' it within the rulez!”)

LOL!
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
27. If you put Mayhill Fowler in the topic line I could've saved myself a click of the mouse
:eyes:
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
30. Mayhill Fowler, the one who secretly taped the "Bitter" comment?
Now there's a valuable opinion.

:eyes:
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highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
32. I've alerted the mods and requested that the topic be locked, since it turned into a flamewar.
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GoldieAZ49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
34. Obama has never hidden his view of religion and politics going hand in hand
in his book Audacity of Hope or his stump speeches in the primary.

His words:

For example, last October he told an audience of 4,000 that he hoped to be "an instrument of God" and that "I am confident that we can create a Kingdom right here on Earth".

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/dominic-lawson/dominic-lawson-obama-must-beware-of-turning-into-a-cult-787298.html


Michelle talked about the 'whole in our souls' often, I heard her use the line on Feb 4th in her stump speech:

Michelle’s stump speech:
That we have to compromise and sacrifice for one another in order to get things done. That is why I am here, because Barack Obama is the only person in this who understands that. That before we can work on the problems, we have to fix our souls. Our souls are broken in this nation.


This should come as no surprise to anyone.
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-08-08 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
35. Why do I recognise that name?
Fowler... Didn't she do some sort of hit job on him earlier?

I don't find this to be such a big deal. In general concept I even think of it as a positive. A properly overseen program does not, to me, seem to violate church/state issues and could be a real positive for communities, allowing multiple venues and directions for much needed aid to flow to the people who need it. Not everyone fits one program or the next, to be sure.

This is not the thing to be disheartened over. FISA on the other hand, has been a serious blow. I wish that were as easy for me to understand. Actualy, I wish he would change his mind.
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