Dean vs Cheney... secret energy meetings.

[Dookus]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=683&ncid=696&e=5&u=/ap/20031228/ap_on_el_se/dean_energy

WASHINGTON - Democratic presidential contender Howard Dean (news - web sites) has demanded release of secret deliberations of Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites)'s energy task force. But as Vermont governor, Dean had an energy task force that met in secret and angered state lawmakers.

Dean's group held one public hearing and after-the-fact volunteered the names of industry executives and liberal advocates it consulted in private, but the Vermont governor refused to open the task force's closed-door deliberations.


In 1999, Dean offered the same argument the Bush administration uses today for keeping deliberations of a policy task force secret.


"The governor needs to receive advice from time to time in closed session. As every person in government knows, sometimes you get more open discussion when it's not public," Dean was quoted as saying.

[Dookus]

1. As an old-time....

open government Common Causer, I think this is wrong.

I believe Democrats should be better than Cheney.

[sfecap]

2. And you were the one...

...who was bragging about never starting negative candidate threads.

LOL.

[slinkerwink]

3. didn't the Dean campaign already debunk this piece of crap?

hold on, let me find the press release.

[Dookus]

7. "I don't know who Walter Mondale is"

I'll give your post all the consideration it deserves.

[slinkerwink]

12. once again, you're not addressing my post

which shows how desperate that is.

[Dookus]

6. Yes...

until exactly two days ago. Then I was pushed over the edge by your type and now I'm determined to play the same game you're playing.

It would be suicide to agree to play a one-sided game in which my candidate can be attacked but not yours.

Welcome to the new, kick-ass Dookus.

[slinkerwink]

8. how nice.....and I really liked the old dookus

:evilgrin:

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

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[slinkerwink]

15. you're not responding to my debunkment of this hit piece on Dean

which just shows that you're not listening deliberately to what I have to say.

I'm in the process of getting my BA in goverment at one of the top twenty national liberal arts colleges, and worked in Congress as a congressional intern last summer.


So yeah, I'd know more about politics in this present context than you do.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

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[slinkerwink]

20. I knew who Walter Mondale was in a vague political context

in that he had run for President, but not that he was a vice president. Do you seriously expect the media to tell the American public about every single vice president for the 200 years? Walter Mondale as Veep in the 1970s doesn't connect to Americans today who no longer see him as a political figure.

That's why the Mondale reference is passe when it's tried on Dean, etc.

[bearfartinthewoods]

35. anyone who gets their education from the media is bound to have gaps......

stealing a dean supporter's fav line...'teehee'

[SidDithers]

46. He also ran for Senate in Minnesota in 2002..

Replacing the late Paul Wellstone on the ballot. And that DID get significant media coverage.

Sid

[bearfartinthewoods]

32. oh gawd......this it too good.....i'm dying here....

bwaaahahaha

[HFishbine]

42. Capitalization, anyone? (n/t)

[sfecap]

24. Speaking of rude....

Got a mirror?

[sfecap]

9. "By my type?"

LOL. How's your car doin?

[slinkerwink]

4. ready? get, set, DEBUNK!

Dean Energy Working Group-The Facts

Any comparison between my successful bipartisan efforts to solve an energy crisis in Vermont and Dick Cheney s donor rewards program disguised as a national energy policy is laughable. --Governor Howard Dean

Background:

Today the Associated Press posted a story about a Vermont energy working group created to avert an energy price and bankruptcy crisis in 1998. The story misleadingly asserts that this working group was just like Dick Cheney s energy task force. Here are the facts:

In 1998, the state of Vermont faced rising electricity rates and the potential bankruptcy of its electric utilities, which would have had a disastrous effect on Vermont. In an example of Governor Dean's record of leadership and delivering real solutions to difficult problems, he confronted and averted the looming crisis by bringing together a bipartisan and ideologically diverse working group to make specific recommendations for avoiding this crisis.

This working group had Republican and Democratic co-chairs, was ideologically diverse, and met with anyone or any group who wanted to meet with them. They crafted a solution that avoided the crisis and made great strides toward greater energy efficiency. Any comparison between this bipartisan working group and Dick Cheney's energy corporation giveaway is laughable.

3 Key Areas of Difference:

Process of Working Group; Substance of Working Group Recommendations; Payback for Political Favors:

1) Process:

--Composition of working group: Working group was a bipartisan, ideologically diverse group of citizens.

--Participants and Attendees: Attendees and participants at meetings were always well-known and disclosable.

--Presentations and discussions: In the interest of solving the pending crisis as rapidly as possible the group looked to get maximum candor from participants and thus advice and presentations to the working group were not public until after the report was issued to the Governor and the legislature. At that time -- as noted in the last page of the working group's report industry participants presentations were made available to the public.

2) Substance:

--The working group s recommendations led to a solution to the problem and averted the crisis.

--Their work led to a consensus position that avoided bankruptcy, sharing the burden between utilities, shareholders, and rate payers.

--Their work led to the creation of a national model for energy efficiency by taking the responsibility for greater efficiency away from the utility companies and put it in the hands of an independent efficiency utility -- Efficiency Vermont.

3) Payback:

The Bush-Cheney campaign has taken millions from the energy industry and Cheney s energy task force created policies that gave billions to these very contributors. Governor Dean and his campaign have taken a negligible amount of money from energy companies.

Dean s Leadership PAC Took Very Little from Energy Officials Dean's Vermont re-election campaign received only small contributions from energy executives, but a political action committee created as he prepared to run for president collected $19,000, or nearly a fifth of its first $110,000, from donors tied to Vermont's electric utilities.

To Date, Twenty-Three Bush Pioneers and Rangers in the 2004 Election Cycle are Members of the Energy and Natural Resources Industry. According to Texans for Public Justice, 23 of Bush s major fundraisers in 2004 are from the energy and natural resources industry. Seven rangers, who each raised at least $200,000 for Bush, were from the energy and natural resources industry and 16 pioneers raised at least $100,000 for Bush. www.whitehouseforsale.org>

Sixty of Bush s Pioneers in the 2000 Election Cycle were Members of the Energy and Natural Resources Industry. According to Texans for Public Justice, 60 of Bush s Pioneers in 2000, who each raised at least $100,000 for Bush, were from the energy and natural resources industry. Five of those Pioneers were named to Bush s Energy Transition team. www.whitehouseforsale.org>

Election Cycle

Donor

Recipient

Amount

2000

Energy and Natural Resources Sector

Bush-Cheney 2000

$2.9 million

2004

Energy and Natural Resources Sector

Bush-Cheney 2004

$1.8 million

< Center for Responsive Politics, http://www.opensecrets.org; Note: amount for the 2004 election cycle were updated 11/3/03>

Timeline of the Vermont Energy Working Group:

July 22, 1998: Gov. Dean Created Task Force to Address Electricity Crisis. On July 22, 1998, Gov. Dean issued an executive order creating the Working Group on Vermont s Electricity Future. The purpose of the 5 person task force was to achieve the lowest current and long-term electric costs for all classes of Vermont s electric consumers.

Committee Chairman Were Bipartisan, Effective. Gilbert and Bankowski were perfect choices as co-chairs: Gilbert is a Republican and Bankowski is a Democrat but both are pragmatic; both know well the realities of the political and business worlds.:

Working Group Members:

Bill Gilbert, a former utility lobbyist and chairman of the state Public Service Board;

Elizabeth Bankowski, a former chief of staff to Gov. Madeleine Kunin, executive of Ben & Jerry's;

Kathleen Hoyt, the Secretary of Administration for the Dean administration;

Dana Kittell, an accountant from St. Albans;

Elisabeth Kulas, executive director of the Rutland Land Trust.

August 27, 1998: Committee Held Forum to Discuss Electricity Reform; 140 People Attended. The Associated Press reported, The board said its hopes were raised that progress could be made after an Aug. 27 forum attended by more than 140 people that featured a wide ranging discussion of steps taken in other states to reduce power costs.

December 18, 1998: Working Group Issues Final Report with Recommendations. The working group issued at final report to Governor Dean.

Fact: Report Highlighted Access to Presentations by Energy Utilities. According to the final report, The Working Group recommends that interested readers obtain copies of the presentations we received from Central Vermont Public Service Corporation and Green Mountain Power Corporation, which may be obtained from those companies. Excerpts from those presentations may be found on the following web site: http://www.state.vt.us/psd.

[sfecap]

5. Pssst...Slink....

Don't confuse 'em with facts. They're having fun. :-)

[slinkerwink]

10. oh, the facts?

don't you love it when the facts stop their desperate spin?

[bearfartinthewoods]

34. lottsa smoke but it doesn't change the fact that we lose the issue if dean

is the candidate. the very subtle differences will not transfer to a 30 second rebutal ad. he has the powah to end the issue.

[TLM]

48. Yeah the truth doesn't matter

because folks will beleive the lie that some so called dems are currently helping rove spread around.


30 seconds... easy. Dean's energy meetings were open to input from anybody and the lists of those hwo attended were public. Cheney's meetings were closed and secret.

next?

[bearfartinthewoods]

49. and what about the people who are even more interested

in what was said than who said it.

[Dookus]

11. this is a brand new article from today...

But since you don't know who Walter Mondale is, I'll go gentle on you.

[slinkerwink]

13. it's a rehash of the same old article that was already debunked

you were never gentle on me in the first place to begin with.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

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[slinkerwink]

17. that is a personal attack.

I doubt you even read my post debunking that article.

[slinkerwink]

18. It's an old article, from Dec.28, and it was already discussed on DU

you're just rehashing the same old issue......

[BeyondGeography]

21. Vermont Democrats were angered

by the secret meetings, but what do they know?

[slinkerwink]

22. Read post #4 for the Debunk!

[BeyondGeography]

23. I read the memo

Look, Howard only got 50.4% of the vote last time he ran. Many progressives opposed him. And some Dems were pissed at the secret meetings.

[slinkerwink]

25. the reason he got 50 was because a republican, and a left wing Dem ran

against him, and he survived a three-person race.

[BeyondGeography]

26. So he was perceived as Bush Lite

in his own state?

[slinkerwink]

28. Bush lite for signing the civil unions bill? That's why they RAN against

him! That was a big issue in Dean's last election! How can you be Bush light by signing a civil unions bill?!?

[BeyondGeography]

30. He was opposed on the left

because he signed a civil unions bill. Oh, I get it.

Hey, Howard doesn't strike me as particularly democratic, ok? After ripping into all of his opponents and building a nice lead for himself, he runs to the party chairman when his victims dare to counterattack and says, "Do something! Somebody has to win this thing after all." Before the first primary vote has been cast. He and Gore going on about the 11th Commandment in December. It's absurd.

You have the power, unless you want to vote against me. It's another one of his winning traits.

[slinkerwink]

31. oh come on, it's not whining, it's doing a purposeful attack against the

old leadership such as the DLC and the head of DNC, which a lot of DUers here didn't like for his ineffectiveness in rallying the party together earlier, to rally the Democractic base. It's just one of Dean's gambits to rally the Democratic base. He's done very well in positioning himself as the outsider, when he's already supported by 2/3rds of the Democratic establishment, it's because the Democratic establishment knows that Dean's rhetoric about the evil Democratic leadership is designed to rally the Democratic base. Those who are threatened by Dean's remarks are concerned because they know they have failed the American voters. Those who aren't threatened by Dean's remarks, especially the 2/3rds of the party that supports him, know that they have nothing to be worried about from him.

That's why the "Stop Dean" movement is false. If there was really a Stop Dean movement, one or two candidates such as Gephardt and Kerry would drop out and then throw their support to Wesley Clark to set him up as the anti-Dean. But they're not doing that due to their egos, so their "stop dean" remarks are pure empty rhetoric.

[BeyondGeography]

33. It's all politics

Howard has run a tactically brilliant campaign to put him where he is now, but his motives 85% pure ambition, 15% principle.

Look, Howard is a POLITICIAN, not the savior of the Democratic Party. His record as governor was pure DLC. He's moved left to exploit the anger of the base, giving them the illusion of "input," and now we will see some predictable tacking back to the center. He has totally outfoxed the competition, throwing not a few low blows in the process.

He is not an admirable person, just an admirable politician. Nothing more.

You're correct about the reasons for the lack of a stop-Dean movement. It's hilarious that so many in the party are scared to death of a Dean candidacy (because they see a draft-evading, tax raising, culturally polarizing nominee taking us to certain defeat) yet we still have 8 different candidates opposing him. Could it be the much-vaunted "evil" establishment really doesn't exist, especially as 2/3 are supporting Dean anyway, by your calculations?

[Kolesar]

36. Speak for yourself, BG

Gee, I guess those hundreds of thousands of activists he energized got it all wrong: "He is not an admirable person, just an admirable politician."

Who needs Cokie Roberts when we have guys like you doing the gop's bidding: because they see a draft-evading, tax raising, culturally polarizing nominee taking us to certain defeat.

[BeyondGeography]

37. Howard gives the GOP

all the ammunition it needs. I mean, who could have predicted 9/11; all hindsight is 20/20, right?

http://www.theunionleader.com/Articles_show.html?article=31075&archive=1

[Kolesar]

39. Yeah, but "certain defeat" is Cokie-speak all the way eom

[JNelson6563]

29. But, but, but....

heh heh ;-)

[worldgonekrazy]

27. Comparing Dean to Cheney is RIDICULOUS

Seriously. You guys know it. Why don't you do something constructive?

[bearfartinthewoods]

38. if dean doesn't want to be compared to cheney he shouldn't act like him.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

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[Dookus]

41. read the article in the OP

acting indignant is not a legitimate response.

[bearfartinthewoods]

45. hearing cheney/bush logic coming from your candidate has an equal effect

on me

[creativelcro]

43. A judge is deciding on what to release. What's the problem with that?

It's the only objective way it can be done. Some things cannot be released for confid reasons. If Dean decided what to release and what not, people would always claim there is something hot he did not release. If a judge does it, which is the way it's being done, such issue does not exist.
So, please, stop brining up this argument (yeah, ok, sorry for those who like LIeberman and try to act as mini sound chambers for him).

[Kolesar]

44. GOP got $35M in contributions from energy in 2000; Dean got $19,000 in 04

$19,000 / $35,000,000 => .0005 => 0.05%

Dean's PAC got five hundredths of one percent of what Bush and the GOP got for their presidential run. (according to the Yahoo article)

Just to keep things in perspective.

[Hep]

47. I've seen this more times than I've seen the movie Real Genius

and that's no small feat.