I don't get how Dem leaders could have such a problem with GAY MARRIAGE

[polichick]

How can the party champion equal rights and still be so fearful about allowing gay couples to marry?? I'm disappointed that Obama, Clinton, Edwards and most others are chickenshits about this ~ but thrilled that we have two evolved states today.

BEST WISHES to the newlyweds!

[Rick Myers]

1. Best wishes to ALL, but especially the 2 women who waited 55 years!!!

That's LOVE!

[polichick]

4. That story is amazing! :)

[RC]

20. Marriage is a legal institution. No church, Priest, Minister, etc needed.

Any two people can go to a lawyer and with a lot of work and money get the same legal rights. So gender isn't really the problem. If the gender of the couple is different, there is no problem, in fact it is real easy. Why the difference? I don't see any problems for a committed couple to get any and all the rights as in a "conventional" marriage. Who cares what you call it anyway. call it what ever you want.

[Onlooker]

2. They don't

They're pandering, and it is disappointing.

[polichick]

5. Yeah, pandering to fear - not smart imo.

[gravity]

3. They don't have the problem with gay marriage

The problem is that it is a wedge issue that will divide the electorate.

[polichick]

9. I think it's only a wedge issue because we allow it...

...just like we allowed the word "liberal" to become a smear. I'd like to hear more Dem leaders admit that gay marriage doesn't scare or bother them, but recognize that others are troubled by it. If that's the truth, they should say it ~ that's how attitudes begin to change.

[anonymous171]

6. They don't have a problem with gay marriage.

They have a problem with people having a problem with gay marriage.

[TheDonkey]

8. lol, unfortunately that is the truth

right now it is just waaay to unpopular of an issue for any of the candidates to come out and champion and expect to win. Their support for civil unions with 100% the rights of marriage and the ability for states to freely adopt gay marriage is an excellent compromise for us GLBT Americans.

[polichick]

10. That's why I call them chickenshits!

[TheDonkey]

12. I disagree

if civil unions they support come with 100% the rights of marriage why should we get outraged over a word? It is the rights I'm after not the name.

[polichick]

13. But many want a marriage certificate just like anyone else...

...and they deserve to have it.

[karynnj]

15. Civil unions could pass far before gay marriage,

how much longer would you be willing to wait to get gay marriage without the intermediate step.

The fact is that you could use any word you want - there is no law saying you can't call something by the "wrong name".

[Oeditpus Rex]

52. I used to think that way

Then some very wonderful DUers brought me to think of how I'd feel if I were the one who wanted to get married, but a bunch of superstitious people were too uncomfortable with my partner and me having the same right as them to use Their Sacred Word.

[Oeditpus Rex]

53. Ka-ching!

Same thing with marijuana — it's the rare politician who'll take a firm stand on what's right, since so many people have such fucked-up attitudes about it.

[ThatsMyBarack]

7. Obama??

Against gay marriage? No flippin' way!

[dbackjon]

11. Yes, he is.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[polichick]

23. Or is he just playing politics??

Not sure which is worse.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[karynnj]

14. The answer may be whether you want cjhange or a lot of fireworks

If you look at the polling, it may be possible to get civil unions with all federal rights way before you will be able to get "gay marriage". Now there are two ways of looking at it.

1) It will not be equal until it is written in federal law that you cannot discriminate on the basis of gender combinations in issuing marriage licenses.

or

2) That as soon as there is a law allowing civil unions, recognized over all 50 states, with all the legal rights that go with marriage - that words will follow informally to reality. Could any one stop a gay couple from writing a wedding announcement inviting someone to the celebration of their marriage? Within a short period, the distinction would become a moot point.

Now if going for 2) which affects no religious believes and will pass decades earlier may not seem as brave as insisting on 1). The fact is acceptance is far more correlated to age than to anything else - including political party. The change will come.

[polichick]

I just think the change would come faster if more Dems would admit...

...that they had no real problem with it, and still recognize that others do. It's the bullshit that bugs me.

[karynnj]

49. For some it is not bs

the problem is that "marriage" has both a religious meaning and a legal one. In essence what is needed is to separate the two. The easiest way would be for ALL relationships to use "civil union" to mean the legal part. To some it means something to them - even if you thing it is meaningless.

[polichick]

63. Let it "mean something to them" in their own lives...

It also meant something to the KKK to torch crosses on people's lawns ~ that didn't make it right or Constitutional.

[msongs]

16. obama is against it because his bible says so - his religion trumps your eqauality nt

[polichick]

17. God, I hope that's not true! :)

[msongs]

18. his official stand is....

his bible says marriage is only man-woman
he is willing to let states decide
he is willing for states to deny it
he will support that denial
voila, no marriage right for u in your state

[msongs]

19. however he might support it AFTER he gets elected lets hope nt

[polichick]

21. I sure do hope so!

[ieoeja]

73. Additions to that list.

- He is against gay marriage because his bible says so.
- He is willing to let states decide.
- He is willing for states to deny it.
- He will support that denial.

Add to that...

- He is willing for states to allow it.
- He will support that allowance.

And for the biggee...

- He wants to repeal DOMA.
- Voila! You can get married in California or Massachusettes and that marriage will be binding anywhere in the United States.


So what happens next? Gay couples from Philadelphia and New York start holding their marriages in Mass. Nice boost to the Mass economy.

And a big loss for Pennsylvania and New York. So it won't be long before folks in those two states decide that, if they have to recognize the marriage anyway, they might as well keep the money for those weddings at home.

Then the states neighboring Pennsylvania and New York? Same process. Won't be long before Dixie will be playing at wedding ceremonies.

[GoldieAZ49]

25. in an election year it turns out the conservatives like nothing else

that is why I think most would like to steer clear of the issue until the elections are over.

[polichick]

26. I'm sure you're right - most are just playing it safe.

[Danger Mouse]

27. Most don't, but it's a difficult wedge issue.

I wish they'd just have to courage to stand by their convictions :(

[polichick]

29. Me too - and I think many people admire that kind of honesty and courage...

...even if they don't agree on the issue.

[hardbop]

28. Because its just not how things were meant to be ...

[JackBeck]

30. Care to elaborate?

[Danger Mouse]

32. No elaboration needed. The post might as well contain talking points from Fred Phelps.

[Texasgal]

31. Huh?

Meant to be by who's standard?

Please elborate.

[Danger Mouse]

33. According to who? You? Your buddy Fred Phelps?

[Texasgal]

34. Classic

Poop n' swoop!

I long for the days when trolls were better masking themselves! LOL!

[hardbop]

35. Who is Fred Phelps?

Sorry, I'm just not into the whole Gay Marraige thing. People are free to do what they want in the privacy of their own homes ... but this is too far, IMHO. You can be inclusive without going overboard.

[Danger Mouse]

36. WTF? How is equal rights for all going 'overboard'?

[newmajority]

37. So what is this now, your fifth different alias with the exact same talking points?

You might last a little longer between pizza deliveries if you didn't jump in with the gay hating shit each and every time.


Tonight, your pizza is brought to you by.... http://www.dirtydavespizza.com/

[JackBeck]

38. Maybe you're just being willfully disingenuous

But I thought we learned over 40 years ago that separate is not equal.

[LostinVA]

40. The next thing you know black people might want rights, too

Oh wait.

Get off the board, bigot.

[hardbop]

41. I *am* black.

Look, I'm not some alternate ID or anything. I joined this board a few weeks ago because I support Obama. I am registered as an Independent, and of course I support civil and equal rights. But I also believe in God and I think that some things are just ... "natural". I'm not trying to make people angry, its just how I feel.

I'm more of a "don't ask...don't tell" kind of person.

[LostinVA]

42. And you're a bigot

You're against equal rights.

[Lyric]

45. Oh, he's all for HIS equal rights.

But somebody else's? Not so much.

Wasn't that long ago that the Bible was used to justify slavery and Jimmy Crow, either. You'd think the parallels would be obvious. *sigh*

[JackBeck]

43. Read "Biological Exuberance".

Homosexuality is just as "natural" as heterosexuality.

[Chovexani]

59. Oh Jesus Christ.

GTFO my race, you're making it look ignorant.

[Bluebear]

61. XOXOXOXOXOXO

:hug:

[Chovexani]

62. It's too late to be drinking

I think I'll lie down instead. :hug:

[galledgoblin]

67. your interpretation of God is flawed

LOVE is natural.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_marj_l.htm

[libnnc]

77. What the fuck do you think we're going to do?

Invade your home, put a gun to your head and force you to watch as we make out on your sofa?



"...don't ask dont' tell kind of person."

You people are so stupid.

[Solon]

56. Equality isn't going overboard, if you want to be a homophobic asshole, do it somewhere else...

don't pollute this board with your filth.

[libnnc]

72. fuck you

and get the fuck off of this board

[Bluebear]

75. You're not "into" gay marriage? Fine, don't get one. Meanwhile, STFU.

[LostinVA]

39. I would love to see you tell that to my wife's face

[Starbucks Anarchist]

66. Hardbop, you should change your name to Kenny G.

Because you debate like he plays.

[hardbop]

76. Awww c'mon man...that was low!!!

Nice avatar, BTW! Workin' is my fav. of that bunch!

:)

[libnnc]

71. fuck that noise

you've taken the wrong turn jazz ass

[BklynChick]

44. It bugs the shit out of me too. In a major way.

[hardbop]

46. Please don't ban me

The great thing about Obama is the diversity of his supporters. They all may not agree on every single point. This is one of them for me.

I'm just talking about gay marraige, not homosexuality in general.

[LostinVA]

47. The beauty of a private messageboard is they can ban homophobic bigots

[Danger Mouse]

48. Yeah, but, why should you care if gays marry? How does it hurt you?

[MadBadger]

51. Fire up the ovens!

[RandomKoolzip]

54. Applying civil rights to some but not all is not equality. Therefore, you are arguing

against equal and consistent civil rights for all if you think GLBT American should not enjoy the same rights as heterosexual Americans. Which must mean that you do not think GLBT Americans are the full equal of heterosexual Americans. Thus, you are a bigot.

Sorry, that's just... "how it is."

[ccharles000]

57. I agree

[ruggerson]

55. Human rights are non negotiable

didn't they teach that to you at your church?

[JackBeck]

64. A quote for you:

"When the dust settles and the pages of history are written, it will not be the angry defenders of intolerance who have made the difference. That reward will go to those who dared to step outside the safety of their privacy in order to expose and rout the prevailing prejudices."

- John Shelby Sprong

[GihrenZabi]

68. Lesson learned?

Here's why people are getting offended, Hardbop:

Whether or not you or anyone else "agree" with gay marriage is completely fucking irrelevant to a Liberal or Progressive; and the majority of DU'ers are Liberals and Progressives. Liberals and Progressives believe that marriage is a human right, not a privilege.

When it comes to human rights, opinion means fuck all - you're either in the right, or you're in the wrong. There's no justification in logic or morality to deny someone a basic, human right. Such is the p.o.v. of a Liberal or Progressive.

You didn't sign up for a website of Obama supporters. You signed up for DU.com - be aware of whose company you are keeping when you post. That said, say what you will. :)

[libnnc]

74. I invite you to post in the GLBT forum

Really.

You might learn something.

if you last that long

[Hippo_Tron]

50. I would bet that privately 90% of them have no problem with it

But the country is slow and they feel that they have to pander to slow people. The good news is that Obama is better on the issue than Kerry was in 2004, given that he supports the California decision whereas Kerry did not support the Massachusetts decision. Equal rights unfortunately don't happen overnight. John Kennedy wasn't exactly an ideal champion of civil rights when he ran in 1960 but he certainly got us there a lot faster than Nixon would have.

[Solon]

58. Because they are moral cowards who stand for nothing...

just being typical Dems, that's all.

[Indi Guy]

60. The problem lies in the press...

The press can't restrain itself from showing guys kissing guys & girls kissing girls as a result of the Mass & California rulings.

I'm an open minded man -- and I'm uncomfotable seeing men kiss. Imagine how these visuals play to the public at large...

[libnnc]

78. well then that's your problem

Not ours.

I've had to put up with watching men and women kiss all my life.

Now it's your turn.

[old mark]

65. Bill Clinton signed the "Defense of Marriage Act" in 1996

which denied same sex couples federal marriage benefits, even if they are legally married by a state. This is still in effect.

My nephew and his partner were married in NY state several months ago. They are together over 15 years.

It is a disgrace to the Democratic party and congress that this is still in place, but I bet it will be changed assuming we win the election for president and congress.

mark

[polichick]

69. You're right - it is a disgrace...

It's also such a crazy idea that people feel the need to "defend" marriage ~ that anyone would feel their marriage is threatened because others can now marry.

Reminds me of white men being threatened by women and blacks gaining the right to vote ~ I'm surprised we didn't have a "Defense of the Powerful White Men Act."

[old mark]

70. I believe that is coming up in congress next week

if they can pull enough congresspersons out of the saloons.

mark

[quantass]

79. Chickenshits indeed. Though secretely they're ok with marriage . Blame the RELIGIOUS mass.