Tweety (from Paris) says something very interesting about Russert

[BeyondGeography]

Said (after saying he shouldn't say this...) that Russert's reaction to the Iraq war showed just how cynically effective the Bush Administration was in the run-up to the war. Matthews, who, it is pretty clear, opposed the war, would question Russert about why he believed the war was necessary. Russert's response: Because if Iraq had a nuclear weapon it was the United States' obligation to do something about it. As Tweety put it, "Tim was Mr. America, and this Administration knew just what would work with Mr. and Mrs. America."

[skooooo]

1. Tweety was anti-war?

I didn't know that.

[RevCheesehead]

2. He just realized this a few weeks ago.

Tweety-think is, apparently, retroactive.

[merh]

17. It is so good to see you!

:hi: :bounce: :bounce:

:hug: :loveya:

[Teaser]

35. He was anti war.

It's easy to mistake his opnions on the matter, because his show was always about how *effective* the Bush administration was at getting people to
do what it wanted. He was always singing the praises of their ability to manipulate the political apparatus. But that admiration didn't mean he supported the idea of the war.

[ampad]

3. LOL

I don't know if that was suppose to be funny but it made me chuckle. Color me shocked to know that Tweety was against anything the Bush administration did up until now when it became "acceptable" to not agree with BushCo.

[The Backlash Cometh]

4. He was. And Tim Russert wasn't.

That's the truth that many may not want to see tonight. Matthews said it very diplomatically.

[eleny]

7. Matthews "We're all neocons now"

That quote spoken when Baghdad fell stands in glaring contrast to his assertions that he was always against the invasion.

Frankly, I thought that his statement of today sounded more like ~ I was right and Tim was wrong all along ~
If anything, it was ill timed and crass.

[Eric Condon]

16. Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't really interpret it that way

I didn't get the impression that what he was saying was as simple as "I was against it and Russert was for it." I did see that Matthews was trying to make plain that he opposed the war from the start, but I felt like what he was trying to get at in regards to Russert's position was that Russert was attempting to give an insight into what the average American's perspective on the war would be, not necessarily his own personal views. I might be wrong, but I thought the point was more about Tim's feel for and insight into the perspective of the average guy, rather than his explicit position on the war.

But then again, it's hard to know exactly what was going through Matthews' mind tonight, considering that at any given second he looked like he was 2 seconds away from breaking down and launching into "Danny Boy."

[charlie]

26. It may have been as simple as that

Remember when Scooter Libby was getting angsty about Tweety's airing of Joe Wilson's charges, Mary Matalin told him to call Russert because he hates Matthews.

[The Backlash Cometh]

46. Yes, thank you.

[The Backlash Cometh]

44. Russert, was, unfortunately compromised.

He was getting direct phone calls from the White House, immediately after the shows had aired. The feedback was instant. Russert's opinion was tainted because the White House tweaked his patriotism. The poor guy was probably a boy scout type who got misled.

[Mabus]

47. Not just phone calls, he had regular brunches with Cheney after the show

Friends of ours who work at Center for American Progress have told us that it is common knowledge around DC that Russert and Cheney would often have brunch together after MTP. Russert was a willing tool who enjoyed his access to the powerful and wouldn't do anything to compromise it.

[The Backlash Cometh]

48. Jeez.

I hope this tidbit gets revealed. If that's the case, Matthews was too kind.

[Mabus]

49. I haven't mentioned it before because I had no concrete proof of it

but I'm just so sick of all some of these fawning anecdotes I've been seeing about Lil Russ that I thought I'd throw out one that I heard. I heard it from people whom I respect and believe and who would know.

[Eric Condon]

50. What I was saying, though, is that I'm not sure Matthews' point was really that Russert was pro-war

I interpreted it much more that Matthews was explicitly anti-war, and Russert was playing devil's advocate while simultaneously demonstrating his insight into the average American's perspective on the issue. I didn't get from it that he was necessarily say that Tim was "for the war." I mean, my interpretation could be totally wrong, but that's just what I got out of it.

[The Backlash Cometh]

54. I think the Republicans are very good at co-opting the average

American perspective, and good at exploiting it.

[eleny]

55. I'm always suspicious of Matthews

Sort of how we're suspicious of people who post here at DU about their "concerns". I get suspicious of ulterior motives covered over by caring concerns when it comes to certain people. CM is one of those people.

[The Backlash Cometh]

43. I believe Matthews has a son who is of draft age.

We all figured out that's why he was so anti-war. But, nevertheless, I did pay attention to him to make up my own mind and he was consistently against the Bush Administration on this issue. The comments you brought up regarding Baghdad were probably said in the same spirit as those of the doctors who were operating on Reagan when he got shot. Before going under, Reagan said, "I hope you all voted Republicans," and they responded, "Mr. President, tonight all Americans are Republicans."

I do recall that Tim Russert and Matthews actually had a contentious relationship. This came up over the Plame incident. Russert was getting phone calls from the White House. (didn't one of the calls come from Cheney?) anyway, whoever called complained about Matthew's anti-Iraq stance. I believe Russert tried to tone down Matthew's diatribes on behalf of the White House. Now think about this, Russert, for all the good man he was, was the kind of media person that was helping to stifle the stories on behalf of the White House. As Matthews pointed out, Russert did it because he thought he was being a patriot, and helping out America. He still hadn't been fully convinced about the evilness of the Bush Administration.

Now, with McClellan's story coming out, chastising the media for not being harder on the Bush Administration, how do you think that would effect a good man like Russert, who just figured out that he was on the wrong side, all along?

[eleny]

56. I'll give it more thought

Matthews picked a heck of a time to talk about their difference of opinion. It surprised me. He was the only person who said anything slightly negative or controversial yesterday. It was a spectacle of gushing all day. But there was Matthews pointing out essentially how Russert was duped with the rest of America. Not exactly a fact I'd appreciate being pointed out if I was Russert's family or NBC for that matter. Not that I care about Russert. But as others here have pointed out - the body isn't cold yet. It appears to me that Matthews didn't wait. So, you may be right. Matthews may have been muzzled by Russert and his thoughts spilled out yesterday during a numb moment.

What always got to me about Matthews is how he would push back some against the neocons but give in so quickly during interviews. Kissing up to DeLay and others. He did make points showing he questioned wmd's but as soon as his right wing guests pushed back, Matthews could be heard saying softly "Yeah, yeah, yeah". Memory takes me back to all those Hardball threads here at DU where people would express disgust at how Matthews ultimately kissed up to right wingers over the war.

Maybe he's a guy like McCain. A guy who says one thing to create a reputation as a maverick but in the end he votes the opposite.

You are aware that Chris Matthews told Frank Luntz on the air that he voted for GW Bush in 2000?

[The Backlash Cometh]

57. I am no lover of Matthews, but if he is the wedge in the granite, I'll be behind

him with a chisel, pounding his point home.

[eleny]

59. I think the only wedge in the granite is Olbermann

Matthews will never walk that walk.

[Tatiana]

60. You've nailed it completely.

I think anyone who has watched Russert's political coverage, of late, could see a marked change in tone. He realized he'd been played. That's why he came clean with Fitzgerald. That's why he stepped up his criticism of the Bush administration and officials, especially after McClellan's book bomb. I think there was some regret on his part, and a desire to provide more honest political coverage.

[The Backlash Cometh]

62. Well, let's hope his wife knows enough about this remorse, and gives

him a chance to leave a legacy that will keep up with the changing times.

[Pirate Smile]

13. I knew Tweety was against the war before it happened but he rarely expressed

his own views on air.

[The Backlash Cometh]

45. In the Plame transcripts, you find otherwise.

You'll find that the White House tried to shut Matthews up, using Russert as well as the MSNBC boss.

[NoodleyAppendage]

11. He was anti-war, but pro-Shrub with a cod piece package.

Tweety needs to come out of the closet.

J

[Bensthename]

14. He always has been.. I cant figure out people who call him the GOP puppet..

Simply not true for a long time..

[Hieronymus]

18. Tweety loved the war until recently.

[Tatiana]

21. Hail and farewell

Hail and farewell
Chris Matthews

Sunday, September 1, 2002

(09-01) 04:00 PDT Washington -- For 15 years, I have been among the grand and lucky few to write a newspaper column. It's something I had wanted for a long time, something I owe to one bloke: Larry Kramer.

<snip>

But this is my last column. The wisdom of middle age has taught me I can't have -- or do -- it all.

I remember Sen. Ed Muskie the night he won his last election back in 1976. He'd had some vodka, which I sensed he'd drunk fast -- like a Russian against the winter. He said:

"The only reason to be in politics is to be out there all alone and then be proven right."

That goes for good columnists, too.

So I'll say it: I hate this war that's coming in Iraq. I don't think we'll be proud of it. Oppose this war because it will create a millennium of hatred and the suicidal terrorism that comes with it. You talk about Bush trying to avenge his father. What about the tens of millions of Arab sons who will want to finish a fight we start next spring in Baghdad?

Well, that's it for now. You know where I stand.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/09/01/IN133269.DTL

[Hekate]

32. Oh My God, I had no idea. My only acquaintance with Tweety is on MSNBC ...

... where we like to tease him for his man-crushes.

I had absolutely no idea about this column of his. I'm appalled at my ignorance, and my regard for Chris Matthews has gone up a hundred-fold.

Hekate

"So I'll say it: I hate this war that's coming in Iraq. I don't think we'll be proud of it. Oppose this war because it will create a millennium of hatred and the suicidal terrorism that comes with it. You talk about Bush trying to avenge his father. What about the tens of millions of Arab sons who will want to finish a fight we start next spring in Baghdad? Well, that's it for now. You know where I stand. " CM

[Kahuna]

42. Not true. From the very beginning he was agin it. nt

[H2O Man]

39. Yes. n/t

[kerry-is-my-prez]

63. Yes - he was pretty anti-war but admiring of how competent BushCo was at manipulating.

He's the ultimate in cynicism.

[elizm]

5. I saw that too and thought it was odd...

Seemed an odd point for Matthews to emphasize when asked for his feelings tonight.

[BeyondGeography]

6. That's the thing about Tweety

you just knew he would come up with something different; that was different.

[LSparkle]

9. No love lost between those two ...

Tweety is obviously saddened by Timmeh's passing
but he couldn't resist just pointing out one issue
on which he thinks he was right (make that he NOW
claims he was right -- Tweety's revisionist history).

[BlueManDude]

8. Russert was the WH's Sunday morning go-to guy. Sorry but it's true.

[NJCher]

10. yes, it's a fact

That came out sometime around when Scooter Libby was heading to trial. In fact, I think Cheney's office routinely leaked to Russert and also let him know what POV they wanted to see represented.

When so many here seem to have forgotten (or never knew about this), what hope is there for fair and balanced coverage?



Cher

[my3boyz]

33. Peggy Noonan referred to Tim as one of the Reagan democrats. nt

[Colobo]

12. Still, Tim Russert was one of my favorites. This election season won't be the same without him.

[1776Forever]

36. Here Here! I agree - Tim will be missed this year - Heard he called this election his "Super Bowl"

I know I will miss him as will many many others! No one is perfect and he did try to do his best! I heard he went to Iowa this primary season just to get the feel of the people and didn't even tell the reporters under him he was going. That is real reporting! How many others do that?

[AllentownJake]

15. Tweety you are not going to be a senator

So stop trying to re-write history and pander to the good people of PA.

[Tatiana]

19. It was a very interesting comment. And let's remember the context.

Cheney, via Scooter Libby, was leaning on Russert (the Washington Bureau chief) to shut Tweety up. Hardball, for a moment, in the lead-up to the war was pretty aggressive at making the case AGAINST the war. Chris Matthews also wrote numerous anti-war columns for the San Francisco Chronicle.

Look at this interview where Tweety asserts that Cheney is repeating the talking points written by Scooter Libby; talking points which were given to Scooter from Doug Feith:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmakyb5bZec

The way Tweety asserts this as fact, as a viewer, you can tell he KNOWS.

And here's Tweety asserting that generals don't formulate policy; they are supposed to carry it out (very wickedly attacks the "let's let Petraeus tell us what we should do in Iraq" meme):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9P3zqXVqNY

And let's not forget Tweety on Imus talking about this "bullshit war":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpzyMp2pQk8

I am only now realizing just how much pressure Tweety was under and how much heat he has been taking for his coverage. We always called him schizophrenic or bi-polar because one day he's be virulently anti-Bush and the next almost seeming to fellate Bush's "masculinity." But I wonder if Chris would get a phone call telling him to back off after a particularly tough show that slammed the Bush administration. He admitted today that Tim Russert was pro-war. He also tacitly admitted that the Bush administration sold Tim on the war, which was their goal. If they could get Tim to push the war as Washington Bureau Chief, moderator of Meet the Press, and NBC political guru, they could persuade the American public. And the Bush team did just that.

[dorkulon]

37. Thanks for those links.

Very informative. Maybe Tweety's not quite the dummy people take him for. His comments today gave me a sense of a distant, strained relationship between him and Russert, and perhaps this "conversation" he referred to was more of a heated argument over the tone of the pre-war coverage NBC was putting out.

[Tatiana]

61. He's clearly not a dummy.

Please remember, when Bush and Cheney, via Scooter, Ari, and Karl Rove were leaking Valerie Plame's identity and covert status all over the beltway, Chris Matthews was THE ONLY PERSON who had the decency to pick up the phone, call the Wilsons and warn them what was going on.

[BeyondGeography]

38. Great perspective

Among other things, you put a finger on why Tweety has been worth watching all these months, infuriating as he can often be.

[TexasObserver]

20. Matthews was consistently better on the war than Russert

Chris Matthews can be annoying and unctuous, but he has been more dogmatic about poking holes into the Bush War Propaganda than anyone on TV except Olberman and Maddow.

Russert was a softie on the war, and the administration used that to play him.

[alcuno]

51. Yes. Matthews even wrote an opinion piece opposing the invasion

Can't remember where it was published.

[bridgit]

22. Matthews didn't "oppose" the war, no M$M entity did. They were all playing the demographic...

that would lead them to what they thought at the time would surely be higher Nielsen ratings, the drum beat up to and including war itself. It was a farce, it was a lie. And Matthews was very much a part of it.

M$M does not, I repeat does NOT sell news to people...M$M sells people to advertisers and that is just the way it is :( Matthews rode into town on B. Clinton's zipper fob, and I have empathy for anyone that does not recall history as it was played out commercial by commercial

[last_texas_dem]

23. IIRC, Phil Donahue was opposed to the war

His opposition caused his MSNBC (or, as they used to commonly be referred to on here, MSRNC) show to be cancelled, despite having, at the time, the highest ratings of any MSNBC show. (Though, admittedly, that was saying very little at that time; MSNBC has fairly abysmal ratings.) In the last couple of years when it's finally become "cool" (or, I'm assuming in their view, good for ratings) to be anti-Bush, MSNBC has finally begun to actually allow some liberal voices to be heard, but I still have trouble accepting that the powers-that-be over there have really had any sort of ideological awakening!

[bridgit]

25. Donahue wasn't M$M, if he were he'd still have a show...

But i hear you :thumbsup:

[AlCzervik]

24. blowing shit up sells more miltary crap ge makes and more Tide®! Wargasam moves the merchandise!

[bridgit]

27. You smarty pants!! How'd you get that little '®' symbol in there...

Cause you know... that's what really-really matters :hi:

[AlCzervik]

28. the mac.

:hi:

[bridgit]

29. mother fucking mac!!

:rant: :hug:

[AlCzervik]

30. sorry.

my husband works for mother fucking apple so that's what i got, when he worked for compaq i had one of those, when he worked for nec, yup.

[bridgit]

31. we work with MGM, WB & Sony America, some iPod stuff but mostly film production...

well, there're in our client base I should say still...the stuff you gotta do to make a liv'n these days so again with the :rant:

[JI7]

34. that sounds about accurate based on Russert's own reporting

[alcibiades_mystery]

40. On the one hand, everybody says how savvy and prepared Russert was

On the other hand, we're told he believed implicitly the biggest (and most obvious) pack of lies ever foisted on Americans.

It seems the man was credulous fool.

[BeyondGeography]

41. He was very good when he had an established record and/or set of facts to deal with

Kind of nowhere when it came to evaluating proposed policy or going with his intuition.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

53. exactly he was a corporate tool or else he wouldn't be where he was...bottomline

[ElsewheresDaughter]

52. so Tim was so easily played? .....

when must of us here weren't fooled by bushco's lies....we knew from day one that it was all lies. how come tim couldn't....or maybe he just didn't want too/wouldn't?


he was a corporate/gov't tool....bottomline


may he rest in peace

[cindyw]

58. I have a feeling that Russerts death will have an interesting effect on certain people.

I recently lost someone I looked up to and had great respect for and I have found that this can have an interesting effect on you. I have come to have stronger conviction in my beliefs and less accepting of bullshit when it matter (more when it doesn't). I think in the end it may make KO more level, but even more sure of his beliefs and Matthews less accepting of bullsit as "fun" politics. I get the feeling over time it will bother him more that they pulled one over on Russert.