WP Page 1 Story Blasts One Swift Liar Out of the Water

[kskiska]

Records Counter A Critic Of Kerry

Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John F. Kerry's most vocal critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate of lying about his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own version of events.

In newspaper interviews and a best-selling book, Larry Thurlow, who commanded a Navy Swift boat alongside Kerry in Vietnam, has strongly disputed Kerry's claim that the Massachusetts Democrat's boat came under fire during a mission in Viet Cong-controlled territory on March 13, 1969. Kerry won a Bronze Star for his actions that day.

But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released yesterday to The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at "all units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star that day, and the citation praises him for providing assistance to a damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."

more…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13267-2004Aug18.html

[eleny]

1. Gratifying to read

Thanks!

[faithnotgreed]

2. and on page 1 it looks like.... thanks to washington post for that

[southernleftylady]

3. the quote i love that he said lol

"My personal feeling was always that I got the award for coming to the rescue of the boat that was mined. This casts doubt on anybody's awards. It is sickening and disgusting."
well no shit dumbass! thats what we have been saying all along you dipshit!

[Proud2BAmurkin]

4. Another filthy swift boat scumbag BUSTED

NT

[oasis]

27. But..but..but..O'Neill vouched for him. Those records cannot be accurate.

Nooo sireee.:hurts:

[buycitgo]

5. and that AD, aided by that LIAR, is causing

a TWENTY PLUS drop in Pennsylvania swing voters' opinion of Kerry, voters who were leaning toward him, but now aren't sure

the poll has been criticized for methodology here, but Olberman Bit on it, and swallowed tonight, brandishing the ugly findings all over his show, then spending a bunch of time with the ASS Craig Crawford, who had a BIG haw haw about how effectively the "lies" are working (he just said lies in passing, as if it was nothing) for Bush, and that Kerry had better get down off his "high horse", because negative ads "WORK"

I found this very disheartening, seeing as how that Henry (craig/greg) from Hotline said almost the SAME thing, both he and Crawford agreeing that Kerry HAS TO go negative

Henry went so far as to say the moveon.orgs were FRUSTRATED that Kerry took two weeks to respond, and did their first ad out of said frustrato.

bleeeaaaaahhhh

anybody else catch these disappointing spots?

dem strategist?

[Proud2BAmurkin]

6. Bush is losing Ohio because of the swift boat scumbags

nothing else of consequence has happened in the last week to cause Bush's huge drop

[BillZBubb]

7. Nothing happened?

1. Mess in Najaf.
2. People getting July 401k reports.
3. Jobs number tanked
4. Stock market tanked.
5. "turned corner" tanked.
etc.

[buycitgo]

9. Bee Tme to punch

should we believe pundits?

dunno, but, naturally pessimistic as I am, it worries me that there's agreement in fairly MOR pundits on this.

the Henry guy twice SMACKED down the horrid harridan Deborah Orin from NYPost, who kept trying to put pug spin on everthing she said

it was pretty funny

[Feanorcurufinwe]

8. Your post is wrong.

a TWENTY PLUS drop in Pennsylvania swing voters' opinion of Kerry, voters who were leaning toward him, but now aren't sure

That is simply not true. There is no such PA poll. At least as far as I know. Citation? There is a new PA poll out today though:

Democratic challenger John Kerry holds a 47 – 42 percent lead over President George W. Bush among Pennsylvania voters, with 4 percent for independent candidate Ralph Nader, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today.

This is little changed from Sen. Kerry’s 46 – 41 percent lead over President Bush, with 5 percent for Nader, in a July 14 poll by the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN uh-pe-ack) University.

Pennsylvania voters disapprove 52 – 45 percent of the job Bush is doing. By a narrow 48 – 46 percent margin, they say going to war in Iraq was the wrong thing to do.

Military veterans or voters with a household member who is a veteran or currently in active duty or reserve service support Kerry 46 – 42 percent, with 6 percent for Nader.

These voters from military families say 54 – 41 percent that the war is wrong.
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x12945.xml

[buycitgo]

11. OK fine ....... watch the rerun of Olberman

then make that assertion again

guess I was hallucinating

and same thing this morning, when Fox mentioned the same poll, consisting of just under 500 swing voters


what, do you think I'm making this up?

I don't quarrel with your numbers, and I obviously can't CITE a TV show



what more can I say

OK?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

14. That poll was not of PA and done by a GOP strategist.

The reason I wanted you to provide a citation was so I would know what poll you were talking about.

The poll sampled 1000 people, a more than adequate sample size, but to arrive at its conclusion about undecided voters, they had to rely on some VERY small subsamples. First, the poll looked only at those who were aware of the ad. That was about 58 percent, or a sample of about 580 people. That leaves a margin of error of about +/- 4 percent. Among this group, 19.4 said the ad made them more likely to vote for Kerry and 27.1 said less likely. This difference of 7.7 percentage points is just on the line for statistical significance.

Among undecided voters, the results are even more dicey. First, the poll doesn't say how many voters were undecided. Most polls have been showing very few undecided voters--10 to 15 percent. For sake of argument, let's say that in this sample, 15 percent of voters in a two-way race were undecided. That would give a subsample of only 150 undecided voters with a margin of error of about +/- 8 percent. Of these, only about 49 percent were aware of the add, leaving a sample of only 75 for a margin of error of +/- 11 percent. In this group, 29.9 percent said the ad made them less likely to vote for Kerry compared to only 11 percent who said it made them more likely. That difference of 18.9 points is outside of the margin of error.

In a 3-way race, only 38 percent of undecideds were aware of the add. If we again assume 150 undecided voters, that means only 57 were aware of the ad. That gives a margin of error of +/- 13 percent. In this group, 9.5 percent said the add madTe them more likely to vote for Kerry and 24.1 said less likely. That difference of 14.6 is also within the margin of error.

In summary, there's no statistically significant evidence that this ad has hurt Kerry.
(see link for the actual poll results): http://polysigh.blogspot.com/2004/08/swift-boat-ad-poll.html

That doesn't even mention the question of what criteria this 'Republican polling and strategic consulting firm' used to determine who is a 'likely voter'.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gauguin57]

26. And another new Pennsylvania poll has Kerry ahead ...

... 48 to 42 percent over Bush in Pennsylvania (Keystone Poll, out of Franklin & Marshall College, Lancaster, PA).

And over on the Election 2004 forum, I read someone's post about Kerry being ahead in Ohio by 9 points in some poll (which surprises me, but, hey. who knows).

[King of New Orleans]

10. Look up liar in the dictionary

and there should be a picture of Larry Thurlow

This guy should face a court martial. Be stripped of his veteran benefits.

[buycitgo]

12. it doesn't MATTTER!

he lies, Kerry sits there for two weeks, the damage, if any (depending on whom you believe), is done, and where we? all these incidents pile up, JUST as they did with Gore, defining Kerry even more negatively

time to FIGHT BACK!

[aquart]

29. Nothing like Gore.

Americans then were smug and secure with hefty bank accounts, good jobs, and peace on earth.

I remember someone asking about Bush, "How much harm can he do?"

Well, the difference is now we know.

[kskiska]

13. Freeps are crying in their beers

Damn. This is definitely the biggest hit the Swifties have taken so far. More than enough to get the rest of the MSM to continue to ignore the story. Interesting that the WP went to lengths to get Thurlow's records, but fail to mention that Kerry won't release the rest of his.
1 posted on 08/18/2004 8:24:36 PM PDT by Callahan

To: Callahan

Not good, and the mainstream press will leap all over this. Even though it's not fair and we know the bulk of the story is accruate, they're going to pound away at this forever. It's likely everyone will eventually have to move on to other issues related to Kerry.

6 posted on 08/18/2004 8:28:32 PM PDT by

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1194386/posts

[janx]

23. What is the "MSM," and why do people continue to insist that

Kerry has not released his records?

[GOPGoindown]

15. Not a lawyer, but

can't someone sue or prosecute these liars for signing false affadavits? I know they're not worth the time and effort, but if some of the sheeple read that they're being prosecuted for making false statements, then it might.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

16. To file a lawsuit, you need to have 'standing'

which means you have to be able to show damages. IANAL, also.

[King of New Orleans]

19. Is damage to democracy

enough of a grounds?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

21. You probably can guess the answer to that.

No. You have to be able to quantify monetary damages to you or your business.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

17. Please rate the Yahoo version

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/washpost/20040819/pl_washpost/a13267_2004aug18

[TowelBoy]

18. And if we had an honest media

They wouldn't even be an issue anymore. But what's honesty compared to ratings?

[frylock]

20. thurlow says he "lost" his bronze star 20 years ago..

meaning he can't return his "fraudulent" citation in protest. How convenient. :eyes:

[Elwood P Dowd]

28. Folks, you don't just "lose" a Bronze Star citation or medal.

I was in the Army during Vietnam but got lucky and was stationed in the States. I received the Army Commendation Medal. Now it's not a Bronze Star or Purple Heart, but for a draftee with two years in the States, it was not that common. Of the group of about 20 of us draftees that were assigned to my unit, I was the only one to receive one. I know it's not much, but I would never lose or misplace it. I cannot imagine someone receiving something as prestigious as the Bronze Star and losing the damn thing. He is lying!

[frylock]

31. i still have my ticket stub from a michael schenker group show i went to..

in 1985. You would have to be pretty irresponsible to lose a Bronze Star. I would suggest anyone who would lose or misplace an award like that might have a difficult time recalling the details of an incident that occured 36 years ago. Or he might just be lying.

Thank you for your service to our country, Elwood.

[zaj]

22. These Not-So-Swifties are gonna burn in hell for all their lies...

[vickie]

24. We and the Kerry campaign should make this article topic #1 for

discussion tomorrow. This is a huge piece of evidence discrediting these despicable Swift Boat smearers.

My blood pressure rises at the thought and site of them. They are vile vermin, not fit to wear the title of homo sapien.

Vickie Carter
Redondo Beach, CA

[Kanary]

30. You mean, there's still an investigative reporter somewhere in the U.S.?

Or, was this outsourced?

:hi:

Kanary

[EST]

32. Outsourced, no doubt.

Unfortunately, I have come to the conclusion there ain't no hell that these lying jaspers are going to burn in. (sigh sadly)

[Swamp Rat]

33. Larry Thurlow's Bronze Star has turned into a tin star.

What an ass.

[bread_and_roses]

34. Rate up Yahoo story

currently only 2.79 with over 1000 votes

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040819/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_war_critic