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Camille Paglia: Obama's best veep choice

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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:37 PM
Original message
Camille Paglia: Obama's best veep choice
http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/06/11/hillary/print.html

Jun. 11, 2008 | Shuddering, lurching and stumbling, the 2008 general election has finally, mercifully begun. For a year and a half, U.S. voters have been flogged like a prison gang through the nine circles of media hell. The two dazed survivors of the primary process, John McCain and Barack Obama, are now warily circling each other, looking for an opening even as they try to shed the already hardened public perception of their character and motivation.

For disaffected Republicans as well as many Democrats like me, McCain is an irascible grandstander of slippery ideology who has made a career out of flattering and courting the media. It remains debatable whether McCain's traumatic experiences as a prisoner of war have enhanced or distorted his admittedly wide-ranging knowledge of military and security matters. Crystal clear, however, is McCain's startling awkwardness as a public speaker. With stilted, stodgy intonations that seem to descend from the late-19th century era of one-room schoolhouses, McCain laboriously reading a speech is a painful spectacle. After the mumbling, disjointed George W. Bush, doesn't the U.S. deserve a more sophisticated leader on the international stage?

Meanwhile, conservative talk radio, which I have been following with interest for almost 20 years, has become a tornado alley of hallucinatory holograms of Obama. He's a Marxist! A radical leftist! A hater of America! He's "not that bright"; he can't talk without a teleprompter. He knows nothing and has done less. His wife is a raging mass of anti-white racism. It's gotten to the point that I can hardly listen to my favorite shows, which were once both informative and entertaining. The hackneyed repetition is numbing and tedious, and the overt character assassination is ethically indefensible. Talk radio will lose its broad audience if it continues on this nakedly partisan path.

As an Obama supporter, I of course see things quite differently. Whatever his tactical assertions in the primary trenches, Obama seems to have an open and flexible mind. He is a conciliator and synthesizer, ready to give due respect to opposing views -- a grace desperately needed in paralyzed Washington. When the camera comes close -- as it did last week when CNN's terrific Candy Crowley tenaciously grilled him about Hillary Clinton's prospects for the vice-presidency -- his deliberative thought process is plainly visible. What a deft performance under high-stakes pressure: Obama was firm, authoritative and methodical without ever losing his warmth and geniality. The guy is smart as a whip. And his administration will be as good as its appointments. As for Michelle Obama, she is formidable, representing a bold, stylish feminism more authentically contemporary than the old, bellyaching, blame-the-males style of Hillary's omnipresent cheerleader, Gloria Steinem.

Given the looming importance of national security concerns, I used to think that Virginia's pugnacious junior senator, Jim Webb, an ex-Marine, would be Obama's most prudent running mate. Obama doesn't need some veteran pol like the 66-year-old governor of Ohio, Ted Strickland, who would simply make Obama look younger than he is. Arizona's ebullient Governor Janet Napolitano would certainly fill out my Italian-American dream ticket and help to nail down the Southwest. But I've come to feel that Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius is Obama's best bet. She is a polished public presence who epitomizes that cordial, smoothly reassuring, and blandly generic WASPiness that has persistently defined the American power structure in business and government and that has weirdly resisted wave after wave of immigration since the mid-19th century. An Obama-Sebelius pairing would be visually vibrant and radiant, like a new day dawning.
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. I want Kaine or Warner
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democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
60. Can't have Warner
I'd be all for him if he were not running for Senate. Right now that seat is almost a guaranteed pickup. Take him out and I don't know who we have who could make it a lock.
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. So 1 Senate seat is more important than the Presidency?
Your priorities are messed up.
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democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. There are plenty of other good VP candidates
If Warner was the ONLY good candidate I'd agree with you. But there are plenty of good candidates.
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adoraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. I like her, but I don't think she would bring much to the ticket.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. which her?
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adoraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Kathleen Sebelius
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I'm not a fan of Sebelius either.
I'm posting stictly on an fyi basis.
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gcomeau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. She brings everything he needs most to the ticket.
Obama doesn't need foreign policy help, he's going to hand McCain his ass on the Iraq debate.
Obama doesn't need someone to turn one state for him, he's running a bigger game than that.

He needs two things more than anything else. Administrative/Economic creds and a reinforcement of his big tent unifying image that will swing poll numbers nation wide by drawing independents and pissed off Republicans who don't want anything else to do with Bush policies to the guy they have a reason to belive won't just ignore them because he's one of them liberals. Sebelius brings both of those, big time. She's a democratic governor with a 62% approval rating in freaking Kansas for cripes sake, a state where republicans outnumber dems about two to one... and who manages to pull that off while NOT being a DINO btw. The woman knows how to appeal outside the core of the party.

She's damn near perfect as a running mate from everything I've seen.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Interesting and provacative..

"As an Obama supporter, I of course see things quite differently. Whatever his tactical assertions in the primary trenches, Obama seems to have an open and flexible mind. He is a conciliator and synthesizer, ready to give due respect to opposing views -- a grace desperately needed in paralyzed Washington. When the camera comes close -- as it did last week when CNN's terrific Candy Crowley tenaciously grilled him about Hillary Clinton's prospects for the vice-presidency -- his deliberative thought process is plainly visible. What a deft performance under high-stakes pressure: Obama was firm, authoritative and methodical without ever losing his warmth and geniality. The guy is smart as a whip. And his administration will be as good as its appointments. As for Michelle Obama, she is formidable, representing a bold, stylish feminism more authentically contemporary than the old, bellyaching, blame-the-males style of Hillary's omnipresent cheerleader, Gloria Steinem."

But, I'm wondering if Obama will chose someone who hasn't even come to light yet?

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jaysunb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. "But, I'm wondering if Obama will chose someone who hasn't even come to light yet?
Edited on Wed Jun-11-08 06:49 PM by jaysunb
I hope/think this is correct. :shrug:

I'm really thinking it will be someone like Paul Hackett.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Paul Hackett? Wasn't there
some controversary about him as he was leaving the political stage?

Or in what sense..someone like Paul Hackett? You mean someone who's come back from Iraq and knows what it's like?
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40ozDonkey Donating Member (730 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I loved Paul Hackett until I got the retrospective scoop on his campaign.
Apparently he's a terrible campaigner and lackluster fundraiser, and when Rahm chose to go with Sherrod Brown instead Hackett threw a loud public hissy fit and stormed off the political scene.

I was really pulling for him and Tammy Duckworth, now I'm just hoping Tammy gets back in the ring. If Hackett couldn't win against that incredible asshole Jean Schmidt (the Bush lover who called Murtha a coward on the senate floor) in Ohio I'm not sure how he can bring anything to the table.

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. That was it! Thanks, Donkey..
We all liked Paul Hackett but it turns out he couldn't hack it.
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jaysunb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. Several things come to mind.
Young war hero. Political chops---somewhat wounded from his gaffes and loss to that odd lady. Represents complete break from the past.
It may not be a great idea in reality, but he's the sort I'd hope for. There's also that Congressman from Pennsylvania to be considered too. :shrug:
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. yeah, it was really necessary for her to label Steinem that way
not surprising...


That "old school feminists hate the males" meme is really tired. And untrue. Another reason I dislike Paglia.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
37. Maybe for you but her description of Steinem rings true
for me. Steinem is still whining that hilary lost because of "sexism"..she needs to get into reality.
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tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #37
54. well, I do think that there were elements of that present
regardless of how people feel about her personally, I think there she was tested and criticized in ways that no male candidate would have been. However, that's politics as well.

That may well be the price of having a strong female candidate in the presidential primary, something that hasn't really happened before.



And, feminism/women's rights didn't get where they are today by backing down. Those women worked really hard to move things along from a time when women had very few choices, and for that I am grateful to them. I think if you were to see Steinem speak as I have (and some of the old guard feminists who are left) they would not be seen as "man-haters" by a long shot.
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #17
59. Since Steinem compared her with Hitler, I see no reason for Paglia not to get shots in whenever...
possible. It's all personal.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. "CNN's terrific Candy Crowley...
:wtf:
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SheilaT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
7. No, no, no, no.
Kansas needs Sebelius far more than does Obama.

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Jeff In Milwaukee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. From the Subject Line, I thought you were suggesting that Paglia was BO's best choice...
I was going to suggest that you step away from the crack pipe!
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. That's what I thought, too
And I was about to go all crazy apeshit on the OP.
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #19
44. Man.... and I clicked on this thread
SPECIFICALLY looking for crazy apeshit. :*
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. i thought the same thing at first glance
that would truly be a nightmare :rofl:
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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. I think Biden's national security cred would be a good balance
on the ticket
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
13. This one sentence makes me disregard everything after:
Edited on Wed Jun-11-08 07:23 PM by Beaverhausen
"...CNN's terrific Candy Crowley..."

:puke:

and anyway, Paglia is an ass and wouldn't know a feminist if one bit her in the ass.
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FredScuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I stopped reading at:
"...conservative talk radio, which I have been following with interest for almost 20 years, has become a tornado alley of hallucinatory holograms of Obama..."

Actually, I stopped reading at "by Camille Paglia"
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. i really do not like her at all.
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
20. If Camille Paglia says it, it is probably dead wrong. nt.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. LOL - you knew she was not going to recommend Hillary!
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Oh, I was very, very sure of that.
However, the point I was making is that Paglia is so offensive to so many women that her endorsement is like the kiss of death.
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. I like Camille Paglia.
:shrug:
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. What do you like about her? nt.
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. I think she's brilliant.
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cbayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. So are Karl Rove and Dick Cheney.
That's why I am so wary of them.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
56. Be more specific. Please. What has she said that's "brilliant?" nt
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #56
64. Don't remember.
It's been a long long time since I read her stuff. But yeah, I generally agreed with what she had to say and loved the way she expressed it.

So when I come across an article like this, I like to read it b/c it's fun reading. She has a fun style and often penetrating insight. You'll notice that I said I disagree with her Sebelius pick. (and if you've read prior posts of mine, I'm no fan of Sebelius as VP), but I enjoyed the article anyway.
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barack the house Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
29. As Randi said Paglia: is rated in the top intellectuals of the world so her opinion is worth noting.
Edited on Wed Jun-11-08 08:52 PM by barack the house
Paglia: would of put a lot of thought into that decision. If one of the worlds great thinkers comes to that conclusion I think we have found our VP.
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Plaid Adder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. "one of the world's great thinkers?"
She's a (fading) media celebrity because she was a woman willing to bash feminist criticism long before Ann Coulter was even a twinkle in Rush Limbaugh's eye. She is apparently a good close reader of poetry but I don't think that anyone will still be reading her work after she's dead.

That of course has nothing to do with whether Sebellius makes a good VP choice or not. But Paglia's opinion on the subject is worth about what mine is, viz., nothing.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

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lastliberalintexas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. You are incredibly wrong, Plaid
Your opinion is actually worth something.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
30. Camille Paglia is a self-absorbed, anti-feminist asshole.
It astonishes me that she's ever quoted here.
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Plaid Adder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. Thank you!
So concise, and yet so comprehensive a summary of her career and persona must be applauded.

:cheers:

The Plaid Adder
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #30
39. Couldn't agree more!!!!!!!!!
The woman distills venom, same kind of nasty as Maureen Dowd. They can both go screw themselves!!!
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #30
40. and Sparkly's being nice
n/t
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ninja8590 Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #30
43. absolutely true
she would be the:

worst.
veep.
pick.
ever.


(well other than something utterly outrageous and unthinkable)
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ninja8590 Donating Member (73 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #43
52. and the recommendation was even lukewarm
"She is a polished public presence who epitomizes that cordial, smoothly reassuring, and blandly generic WASPiness that has persistently defined the American power structure in business and government and that has weirdly resisted wave after wave of immigration since the mid-19th century."

What kind of rec is this?

(added since my first post was really badly stated...very newb of me)
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devilgrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #30
45. She's a total windbag
Edited on Thu Jun-12-08 01:47 AM by devilgrrl
provocative.... bfd? :puke:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #30
57. You forgot self-loathing, but otherwise you nailed it. nt
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papapi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #30
63. Her anti-gay rhetoric makes me puke. I've heard farts that make more sense.
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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
32. I believe this news.
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. lol
yeah I had a feeling you'd like the article. ;-)
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mystieus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. I know, she's great.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-11-08 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
41. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
42. kick!
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
46. If Obama brought in another Woman 4 VP.? Hillary supporters would go ape-sh*t
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #46
47. That's part of the appeal of Sebelius as VP to me.
hehe. ;-)

I know. I know. :spank:
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #46
58. Not if he handled it properly.
He'd have to get Clinton to say she didn't want the spot for some personal reason. She could say she would could better pursue her goals as Senator, or she could go the martyr route and say she believed she'd be a distraction to the ticket. In exchange, Obama would say "I was planning to offer the position to Senator Clinton, but I regretfully respect her decision." Or, he could even offer her the position with the understanding that she would turn it down. Then he could pick Sebelius without Clinton losing face. Sebelius could then be portrayed as Obama's concession to Clinton's supporters, rather than a slight to Clinton.

In 1960, JFK offered the spot to LBJ, his fiercest rival. History books generally claim that JFK was expecting LBJ to reject the offer, and they point to several phone calls to Senator Ralph Yarborough, also from Texas, and rumors that he was going to choose Yarborough as soon as LBJ rejected the offer. LBJ got wind of the plan, and accepted the offer to spite Yarborough, who was a big rival of LBJ in Texas.

Yarborough told it differently. He claimed he and JFK had agreed to trap LBJ into taking the position, because even though JFK hated him, he thought LBJ gave him the best chance of winning. So they floated the rumors themselves that Yarborough was the real choice, knowing that LBJ would take the offer just to spite Yarborough (and Kennedy).

It's even possible Kennedy was playing both of them. He knew that a popular Texan could carry Texas and win the election for him, and he may not have cared which Texan. But if he offered the wrong way, both might refuse him. LBJ hated him, and Yarborough, though he was close to JFK, was a proud, fierce rival of LBJ who might reject JFK's offer if he felt he was chosen only because LBJ rejected the spot. So JFK offered it to LBJ first, but told Yarborough he was really the first choice,. We'll never know.

The point is, the choice for VP always has a lot of intrigue that we rarely see. This is Obama's first test as the nominee. If he fails it, it won't really hurt him long term, but it will show what he's got. (Or what David Axelrod has).

All this writing, and probably no one will ever see it. :(
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
48. Wow. 21 paragraphs of self-aggrandizing whining and two sentences to recommend a VP.
Her VP recommendation was a lukewarm afterthought (blandly generic WASPiness?) to a lot of rambling about how smart and cool the author is, and how inferior all those people who aren't as smart and cool as she is are.

Didn't Salon used to be decent?
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. n/t
Edited on Thu Jun-12-08 02:32 AM by woolldog
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. Which is why I read the whole article. It got worse. nt
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 02:38 AM
Response to Original message
51. I really can't stand Paglia
but in a way hell has frozen over, considering her enthusiasm and support for Obama. I don't remember her supporting Gore or Kerry this way.

Regardless she's nuts.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 05:39 AM
Response to Original message
53. Paglia jumped the couch years ago-
and remains on the wrong side...
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last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
55. Never trust the advice of a rabid right winger.
Following Paglia's advice would be no better than following Rove's. Both of them are angling for the repubs to win, regardless of who they claim to support.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-12-08 07:25 PM
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65. Ordinarily, I would discount the possibility of her being the VP, but ...
Edited on Thu Jun-12-08 07:40 PM by TexasObserver
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