This is a bunch of hooey from Hillary supporters. Hotline playing it up bigtime.

[madfloridian]

Not yet

"One didn't have to approach Clinton supporters to get their opinions; many of them openly, and sometimes loudly, vented their frustrations to one another. "They took delegates away from her, what's up with that?! ... It makes me so mad." " doesn't deserve a single delegate . ... He ran away from the voters, ran away from a re-vote" "The vicious sexism revealed in this campaign has been sickening."

Many supporters were eager to get their opinions on the record.

Judith Fogel, a writer and ex-reporter from Annendale, VA, said the media was "humiliating" Clinton as she hung on past 6/3 p.m. Clinton was "genuine" and "ethical" to the very end, and "self-sacrificial" in the face of such scrutiny. Fogel didn't fault Obama for trying to push Clinton out, saying he was "forced into a corner." But she still might vote for John McCain, even though she's never voted for a GOP WH candidate.

Sara Brown, a retired biologist from the Shenandoah Valley and Clinton volunteer, thought the speech was "gracious ... vintage Hillary." Like Fogel, Brown was upset over the criticism Clinton received for refusing to bow out 6/3 p.m.

"She needed to leave the race on her own terms." Asked if her fellow Clinton supporters would now rally around Obama, she replied, "Give them a little time, don't try and force it." But speaking for herself, Brown -- who's never voted GOP and cites SCOTUS appointments and global warming as her top issues -- says she's considering voting for McCain.

Two middle-aged Clinton volunteers, who asked to remain anonymous because they feared harassment by Obama supporters, said the Dem leadership had actively conspired to take the nod away from Clinton. DNC Chair Howard Dean demonstrated "a total lack of leadership" in the MI and FL crisis because he didn't want Clinton to get any of those states' delegates. And Speaker Nancy Pelosi "should be ashamed" for her secret support for Obama. (One of the women said she had volunteered for every Dem campaign since McGovern '72, so the animus she displayed towards her party was particularly striking.)

But most of the womens' ire was directed at the media, particularly "the men on MSNBC." By "doing the GOP's dirty work" against Clinton, pundits such as Chris Matthews and Keith Olbermann are "secretly for the Republicans" and "want the weaker candidate" to go up against McCain. Both women said they would refuse to vote for Obama "unless she's on the ticket." But they are "still holding out" for Clinton at the top of that ticket, insisting that she should "take the fight" to the convention floor ."

[Shakespeare]

1. Good lord. They're making me embarrassed for my gender.

A conspiracy? Really? :eyes:

[supernova]

7. I agree with you

and I've come to the conclusion that these ladies really don't know enough about MacCain to stay away from him.

They really seem to think he's that "straight talk express" guy from 2000 and nothing like his fellow neocon GOPers.

[Shakespeare]

19. Yup. I also think...

...there's a really sick streak of racism in there--with women like Harriet Christian being the best example.

[roguevalley]

79. don't miss the man hating here. they always say it like its poo in

their mouth: the men. geez, what losers. I cringe when I hear this stuff.

[iconicgnom]

76. But then the question is, after all this time to observe, why are they so ignorant?

I can't imagine an Obama supporter failing to note the glaring inconsistencies between old/new McCain, between the reality described in McCain's speeches and interviews and actual reality "on the ground".

Is it that people whose thinking patterns are governed by the art of triangulating for political advantage simply don't pay heed to that kind of blatant inconsistency?

[bunnies]

9. I agree.

Living up to a stereotype doesnt exactly help to eliminate it. :eyes:

[JoFerret]

18. Most of what they are saying is either true or

indicates the strength of the feeling.

Not to be dismissed.

I hope the Obama campaign folk with the tin ears find a way to listen.

[madfloridian]

23. They are not even being rational. They are blaming Dean

and everyone else. It is pathetic.

[Shakespeare]

27. No, there's zero basis in truth.

It's not even a big mystery why and how she lost. And it had nothing to do with sexism or repression or conspiracy of any kind.

[bunnies]

33. Not to be dismissed?!

Youve GOT to be kidding.

Its like a 3 year old pitching a fit in a grocery store. Sorry... tantrums dont get you what you want.

[JoFerret]

44. Tin ears

as I said.

If the Obama campaign does not pay attention victory will not be as easy. That is all.

I am sorry you are unable to understand the feelings of those people.

[madfloridian]

45. Oh, please stop threatening the party. It is childish stuff.

Obama is being supportive in every way.

[JoFerret]

49. The threatening is all your own

Why make a habit of misreading and assumption?

I know where I stand. Do you?

[madfloridian]

55. I threaten no one. This is getting ridiculous. Updating list....

Bye.

[JoFerret]

57. Excellent

Always a great strategy.

Thank you.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JoFerret]

50. Please keep your disgusting and outrageous suggestions to yourself

And do try to be a little less narrow minded and full of certitude.

You are not the gatekeeper of democratic purity you know. None of us are. The best we can do is try and stay open minded and thoughtful while maintaining core values. A little effort imaginative can sometimes go a long way.

And the GOP candidate is called McCain. Making fun of people's names is infantile.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JoFerret]

56. BOO!

Did that scare you?

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[roguevalley]

82. geez. she lost. give it up or be wary of wednesday.

[ZinZen]

87. I no longer try to press the point

for fervent Clinton supporters to vote Obama. It's their choice if they back McSame, and if he wins I don't want to hear one peep of protest out of them. Not one.

You know, several of us were hardcore Deaniacs, and were severely let down after what we saw happen to him from the Dem party and the media to ensure that he would not win. But most of us came around and backed and donated to Kerry after coming to our senses of what the mad Chimperor would attempt to accomplish (and has to the nth degree). McSame is going to carry the torch for Bush term part three and our country will continue to back to the 12th century.

I am sure most Clinton supporters do not want this.

[Jazzgirl]

65. I don't understand the feelings of these women either

and I'm in my mid-fifties. They are ignorant at best. They are not thinking or they wouldn't even consider McSame. How do you placate someone with that mentality (or lack thereof)? The don't understand that they will be getting not only more of the same, but a definite setback if they vote for this piece of crap. I have no sympathy for their ignorance.

[roguevalley]

81. The feelings of those people. EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD has

lost a race with a candidate but you don't see them pulling their panties over their heads. Jeez. WHEN are these asses going to grow up?!?!?

[KaptBunnyPants]

67. Why waste effort on people who are obviously a lost cause?

They don't seem to have specific addressable issues that could be discussed. What did Obama "do" to her? Snub-gate? Shrug-gate? The only specific complaint that I consistently hear about Obama's campaign was that it was her turn. He could have waited until 2016. What could Obama possibly do to convert dead-enders this irrational? Do they want an apology from him for running, or just for winning?

[Rene]

73. try readying thru www.attacktimeline.com nasty rotten scheming attacks for months on end by

bho campaign.

[roguevalley]

83. try acting like an adult like everyone on this board who lost a race

with someone they loved. your time line is enough to get your butt tombstoned wednesday.

[roguevalley]

80. they are asses and they are a tiny minority. most people move on and have.

its called being an adult.

[Beacool]

96. They won't.........

In their arrogance they think that they'll get "new" voters and won't be needing her supporters.

Whatever, I no longer care about this election.

[Tesha]

98. We will get enough new voters to make up for the small, small minority of "Democratic" voters...

...who will not be convinced to vote for the Democratic
nominee no matter how much persuasion, cajoling, or
outright ass-kissing is aimed their way.

Folks like that just distract us from our mission which
is winning over the maximum number of voters who *CAN*
be convinced.

Tesha

[boppers]

22. Yes, it's a consipracy.

A vast right wing conspiracy.

Waitasecond, that sounds familiar....

[SoCalDem]

89. Apparently they never watched ANY tv between 2000-2007

ALL during that period, Mrs c. was THE candidate..ALL the media-types kissed her ass,kowtowed to her staff, and delighted in every opportunity to interview her.. She was the media darling..UNTIL she actually started campaigning and then losing..

The media is NOT responsible for her losses...

Did they joke about her? Sure..ALL media does it about ALL candidates..

Look back to Carter's admin.. he was routinely pilloried..so was Johnson....so was Kennedy...so was Bush 1 and 2..

Media picks up on the things that make the candidates different..she's female.. they cannot help that fact, nor could she..

It was not sexism.. it was routine treatment for a candidate who had been running for that office for 7 1/2 years, and when put to the actual test, had failed.. she was "fair game"..and she had to know it, and expect it...

[janx]

2. Sensationalist media.

This is getting tiresome. . .

[PeaceNikki]

3. WHY do some people here sensationalize the sensationalist media?

:sigh:

[madfloridian]

4. Explain, please.

Thanks.

[PeaceNikki]

8. The media is showcasing these morans.

It's fun to show the divisiveness of the party that's on fire.

They're going to keep showcasing them and try to knock us down.

Fuck em.

And there are some folks here who cream in their pants and love to post every one of these stories...

ooooo lookie... Hillary supporters refusing to support Obama!!!

[Zuiderelle]

15. Yup. There will always be people willing to be quoted saying stupid shit.

On all sides. Just have to laugh and say "Yep, there are still a lot of stupid people in the world."

[cbayer]

35. You've got it exactly right.

There was a good OP yesterday about that. Many on DU have been tools of the media and RW all along and this is just another ploy. It is their goal to keep the party divided and some people are just playing right into their hands. I hope that this will be disallowed on 6/11.

[janx]

16. Chicken-and-egg.

The media find some sensational cause (in this case, a few crazy Clinton supporters bolstered by some right wingers who want to keep the thing going), and push it to drive up their ratings with the lowest common denominator. This, in turn, causes a reaction from fairly reasonable people who may, never the less, become alarmed--further jacking up ratings.

There are ramifications in the political blogosphere, because after all, many political junkies watch cable news and then run to their computers to post about it, thereby pushing the sensationalism even further. One good thing about online political communication, however, is the ability on the part of some critical thinkers to access sources (if there are any ;-)), and to come to some reasonable conclusion.

[Faygo Kid]

13. I agree. They will do all they can to set us against one another. It sells papers.

It's obvious.

Don't buy it.

[janx]

20. This kind of crap has been going on--large scale-- for at least 20 years.

[sandnsea]

5. The Clinton's constructed the IWR strategy

The Dem Leadership should have conspired to take the nod away from her. Not that I think they did that any more than the Clinton's conspired to keep Kerry from winning in 2004.

[tularetom]

6. Her top issues are "global warming and SCOTUS appointments"

so she's considering voting for McCain.

Hard to argue with logic like that, huh?

[rosesaylavee]

21. Logic?

:eyes:

I doubt these ladies were Hillary supporters and/or Democrats.

[Unbowed]

10. Let's see if Clinton speaks out against this kind of crap.

She could slap it down like nobody else.

[janx]

26. She did!

In no uncertain terms, in yesterday's speech, she said:

"DON'T GO THERE."

[Unbowed]

91. Which is why she is the one to address this. n/t

[rodeodance]

36. Oh blame Hillary--typical

[muryan]

40. Where is blame implied?

She can shut these people up, she has no responsibility to, but she definitely has the power to do it.

[BlackVelvet04]

72. Really? How do you suggest she shut us up? Shoot us?

What's the plan?

[muryan]

90. Say those would chose to vote for McCain

someone who wants to continue the war that is killing our children, continue the economic policies that are putting families out on the streets, keeping kids of out college and forcing people to join the military in the first place...are people who have their priorities in the wrong place.

And since I wasn't talking to you, yet you took the mantle of defending those I was mentioning, I would assume that you will no longer be posting here after the 11th.

[BlackVelvet04]

94. so what's the plan? How does Hillary shut us up?

You claim she can shut us up so let's have it....how?

[muryan]

97. I'm fairly certain I covered that already

CH is calling you.

[BlackVelvet04]

100. I'm fairly certain you didn't by responding to me anyway....

and I'm great at multi-tasking so don't worry about CH.

[muryan]

101. I've read CH a few times

and yes it is cause for worry. The number of plants there is fairly obvious, and its disheartening to see people agree with them based on the stress of a long primary

[BlackVelvet04]

102. LOL.....

sure.

[muryan]

103. Doesn't mean there aren't people of reason over there

Most of your posts are actually not a bad read, but unfortunately thats not something that can be said for some there.

[BlackVelvet04]

104. If you need something else to read...

http://themountainsage.wordpress.com/

[Unbowed]

92. What a illogical remark. Typical.

Edit to add: NOT typical of Hillary Supporters, just in case anyone thought that's what I meant. Other than that disclaimer, extrapolate as you will.

[NWHarkness]

11. Dance, little puppets dance

Hotline has pushed every possible angle to divide Dems. And Dems keep falling for it.

[SeattleGirl]

12. I really wish they would stop blaming Obama. I do agree that

there was sexism coming from the media, but I never heard anything like that coming from Obama himself.

And as far as voting for McSame, are they nuts? If they TRULY cared about women's issues, they would vote for Obama. McSame is ready to set this country back several hundred years. How is voting for him "showing" the Dem leadership?

GAAAAAAAA! Biggest pile of illogical logic I've ever seen.

[jeff30997]

14. "Biggest pile of illogical logic "

Hey,I love this expression! :toast:

[SeattleGirl]

17. I've used that expression for years.

Seems to fit in some cases, eh?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. McHooey.

We've got a winner.

[Diane R]

25. I would like to state again: Those women do NOT speak for me. They need to get over themselves.

[charlie]

28. I've seen that "I'm a lifelong Democrat" qualifier so often

from these supposed Hillary backers, it's starting to sound like one of those tells that makes trolls easy to spot.

I'm a lifelong Democrat, walked 17,000 miles to GOTV for Cleveland, sold my house and kids so I could donate to FDR. Today I registered Republican and sent my Mastercard to McCain because what the DNC and that bastid Howard Dean did to Hillary wasn't right. I haven't slept a wink since Michigonians and Floridoodlians got the Zimbabwe treatment from that Howard Dean prick. Plus, HOWARDDEANHOWARDDEANHOWARDDEAN is an asshole tyrant. Howard Dean hates Hillary, you know.

[madfloridian]

29. LOL

:rofl:

[janx]

31. That's a good description!

:rofl:

[sniffa]

34. ..

:rofl:

[dchill]

42. Thereyougo!

Excellent! :)

[SemiCharmedQuark]

95. LOL

:thumbsup:

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cha]

32. Whine, "they took delegates away from her", Whine

And, what lie perpetrated the delegates being taken away meme?

Trying to hold us hostage "unless she on ticket" will not work, ya big whinevats.

[roguevalley]

84. for her 'math' to work, she had to dump my entire state. four delegates

gets your panties in a twist but four states votes don't. Interesting aren't they?

[Cha]

88. Interesting in a

macabre kinda way.

[cbayer]

37. So I want to say to my supporters:

When you hear people saying or think to yourself, If only, or, What if, I say, please, don't go there. Every moment wasted looking back keeps us from moving forward.

Hillary Clinton, June 6, 2008.

[pansypoo53219]

38. these women are pissing

on obama's wonderful mother.

[Berry Cool]

39. They think Keith Olbermann is "secretly for the Republicans"?

This insanity never fails to baffle me. Where on earth did so many possibly otherwise intelligent people get the idea that Keith Olbermann secretly favors Republicans? Has he been railing against Bushco for the past four years for nothing? Has he been putting on stories about McCain labeling him "McBush" for nothing? What does he have to do to convince these numbskulls he's not a closet Republican?

[27inCali]

41. The GOP dirty work was pumping Clinton up... duh!

These idiots dont give a damn about their country of their children's future or their grandchildren's future. And their arguments are specious and myopic, as though is wasn't both candidates dealing with a lot of unfair shit from the media. As though Clinton should have been automatically crownd simply because she is a woman.

If they think McCain is so great, why don't they enlist and go fight in Iraq, since they are so glad to condemn future generations to do so.

Go vote for McGrumps so he can all call you c*nts to your face, dumbasses.

There was no conspiracy. There was a vote: we all voted, we all got our say, even if you gave her the whole shebang in MI and FL, she still would be losing. She lost the vote, because her personality turned a lot of people off (it had zero to do with being a woman and everything to do with being arrogant, assuming and dishonest and being surrounded by sleazy lobbyists).

Try fighting for ideas, not people.

[dchill]

43. K&R.

Read it and weep!

[HCE SuiGeneris]

46. They fear harassment because they know they are living a lie.

[Sparkly]

47. .What is the point of posting this here?

These are a few of her most avid supporters who were at her concession speech. This doesn't necessarily represent a majority of her supporters.

What is the point of posting this here?

[madfloridian]

52. Because it is obviously going to be used when they sound off like this.

Now as to the point....what is the point of all the crap we have been seeing about the popular vote, about all the reasons she lost....

The point is that it appears to me that Hillary needs to do more to get people like these in the post to hush. She needs to do more to shut up the Democratic leaders in my state. She needs to make it a point to do so.

Do I need a point when others are acting like that? And blaming the chairman for her loss?

No, I don't think so.

[Joe the Revelator]

54. Because we don't bury our heads in the sand at this site....

we save that for the folks at hcf.net

we have to stay in tuned with what is going on out there.

[QC]

64. To stir the shit again.

Some people got so addicted to all the nastiness and drama of the past few months that they have been running around all day, frantically stirring the turds again, hoping to waft up that magical stench that they find so intoxicating.

Luckily, most people have moved on from all that.

[madfloridian]

66. To show it ain't over in Florida. Hillary started it, she can stop it.

She can tell her surrogates here to hush.

[Rene]

53. Play it up bigtime.....that's exactly what I'm feeling. no magic pixie dust has made me any more

an obama supporter. I still feel he's an empty suit. Hillary will need to come back in 2012 to fix all his mistakes.

[madfloridian]

63. That is why I post things like this. To show that we need to be cautious.

That many are willing to sabotage the party because they are pouting over alleged slights.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[creeksneakers2]

58. They take this personally and are very emotional

I spent lots of time defending Hillary here from bogus attacks here and she did get lots of bad breaks on the way, especially from the media before Obama took the lead. Hillary was no angel herself though, so her supporters ought to be able to chalk it up to politics in general and move on.

I don't understand why Hillary supporters are taking this so personally. When somebody gives reasons for their anger that make no sense, like its all Howard Dean's fault, I suspect they don't want to admit what it is they are really angry about.

I especially don't understand blaming Obama for things his supporters said. I defended Hillary here many times from folks who blamed Hillary every time a supporter brought up Obama's drug use or passed on a slanderous E-mail. Its as unfair to blame Obama for sexist remarks as it was to blame Hillary for what that guy from BET said, which I forget exactly what it was. Hillary supporters ought to understand.

It doesn't make sense to say she lost because she's a woman because everybody knew up front she's a woman and she started out way ahead. Her womanhood didn't change.

The Democratic Party is being blamed but Democrats have always stood with women 100%.

The Hillary supporters say they want to be reached out to but I don't understand
what they want. Perhaps if they could confess what is really making them angry it would help.

[mystieus]

59. People fail to understand if the DNC seated all the delegates of MI and FL, Hillary still would lose

[JoFerret]

60. Calm down.

Take a little longer view.
Stop agitating and stirring
Keep calm and carry on.

[union_maid]

61. The GOP has been soliciting these people

That's an open secret. They've been contacting them and asking if they'll speak to the media. Just ignore it. McCain wants to make a play for disaffected Clinton supporters and they want us fighting. It's been one day and we're already starting to unify. There will always be some who won't or people who are misrepresenting themselves and their motives. Not getting all worked up about it is the best way to defeat it.

[MarjorieG]

62. I blame Hillary for stoking and writing this victim storyline. How do we/she change it? Will she?

[rodeodance]

68. Blame Hillary is still in vogue I see. Such sillyness.

[QC]

69. It rained today and I left the sunroof open! Damn that Hitlery Klintoon!

Takes me back to Free Republic, 1998!

[MarjorieG]

70. However you feel the blame game got started-never Hillary-she needs to stop it.

[rodeodance]

78. They are big boys. I do think Hillary is into scolding them.

[rodeodance]

93. I meant to say NOT into scolding them

[Diamonique]

71. Absolutely!

Hillary, Wolfson, McAuliffe, and Davis all said stupid shit like this over and over again. They took 4 delegates from her. Sexism. Conspiracy. Popular vote.

And some Hillary supporters (not the brightest bulbs in the chandelier, but voters nevertheless) bought into it hook, line, and sinker. They've made it their life's work to see her vindicated. Or they'll vote for McCain because Hillary told them that he's more fit for the job than Obama.

It's disgusting.

While I don't really think there are that many of these people out there.. and I'm sure most of them will come to their senses, I still believe Hillary has to fix this. I don't think she understood how much damage she was doing. I'll be interested to see how Obama handles it. It must be addressed.

And then there are those who are only using Hillary's supposed victimization as an excuse to not vote for Obama because they are Democrats who weren't ever going to vote for him anyway.

[madfloridian]

75. I agree. I don't think she understood the damage.

And you are right it may be just a few....but they are loud and they are open to the media. She is the only one who can fix it.

[roguevalley]

86. you may be right about her not getting it. It took half the congress

and half her delegates to get her to quit and endorse. She's probably still in her bubble.

[iconicgnom]

74. Hillary Clinton lost, period. Revisionist history is worthless in the end.

It might give someone relief from a feeling of loss, but revisionist history that pretends that Hillary didn't "throw the kitchen sink" is a pig that will never fly. A pretense that Obama didn't have to rise above the worst the right-wing hit squad could throw, that Obama wasn't throughly "vetted" by Penn-Black, Carlyle-Matalin, and even Limbaugh-O'Reilly-Hannity (I connect the symbionts so it won't be pretended that they or the campaigns they run are actually separate), simply won't fly. FOX news isn't "fair and balanced". Remarks from prominent Dems to the contrary were brain dead. When you wash the bullshit from that line there's nothing left but a stink.

Now the GE is on and the neo-con campaign will no longer be fought by proxy. As our minds turn fully to the issues presented by the respective nominees, there's no more need to pay any more attention to Hillary supporters who say they'll now vote McCain, than to any other voter who would vote McCain.

[AtomicKitten]

99. I think it's pretty clear those stuck in that kind of behavior

suffer any number of personality disorders that have finally overcome any semblance of good sense. They still seek to suck all the oxygen out of the room, but we're moving on to the general election regardless.

[OzarkDem]

105. Even Tom Brokaw agreed her media coverage was unfair