I am an Obama supporter but the treatment of Hillary has radicalized me

[cap]

I want to re-energize the feminist movement. I think this is the best way for female Hillary supporters to transition into the Obama campaign. I want the campaign to start accentuating what Obama will do for women and to place women in prominent positions. The campaign has a platform on women but that platform needs the publicity. For starters, I want the campaign to start putting more women in leadership positions. I'd like to see something close to a 50% representation in team leader positions. Ideally, I'd like Obama to give a speech with a prominent feminism on gender just like he did on race.

If you are wondering why I feel radicalized, watch the video:

http://www.womensmediacenter.com/sexism_sells.html

I am absolutely appalled... I think we should ask for Chris Matthews to be removed. We need a wholesale cleanup at FOX. Rudov, the commentator at FOX, has written a pretty vile book: "Under the Clitoral Hood: How to Crank Her Engine Without Cash, Booze, or Jumper Cables".

[blondeatlast]

1. Agreed on both counts. Even my husband, a confirmed Obama supporter from the start,

would comment on the overt sexism in the enternewsment's coverage of her.

Mind that he's hardly what I'd call enlightened, he grew up in India--but it was so obvious and shameless even he saw it.

We aren't going to rid the tube of the likes of Matthews (even Keith Olbermann went over the top in his coverage) but we can make them uncomfortable and aware that we're paying attention. It gets tiresome writing e-mails, but if it helps, it's worth it.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

4. Agreed! The sexism has been disgusting, but I do wish that Hillary supporters

would stop blaming Obama for it.

[rodeodance]

7. He did not help when when he said

that Hillary's foreign experience consisted of attending tea parties.

[glowing]

10. Well, that was more the case than not as a First Lady.. I think she did have

tea with the Queen... I think that people need to laugh more.. I think people need to be less serious about themselves. Also, I don't think Obama, surrounded by a house of strong fiery females, is going take women's rights issues back to the 18th century.

The media are pigs..

[femrap]

128. Just so folks are laughing at women, right?

Every time I make a man the butt of joke, it's a crime. Ridicule a man? Humiliate a man? But no problem making jokes about a woman's body or a flaw.

There are more pigs than the media...the media is a mirror of our culture.

[Rage for Order]

133. Huh? I don't recall that reaction at all

Look at almost every portrayal of men in the media. The men are bumbling fools who would be completely lost in life if not for the sage guidance and wisdom of their wives. It doesn't necessarily offend me, but it does get a bit tiresome.

[femrap]

163. Media discussing HRC's cleavage, her

clothes, her legs. When do we discuss Tim Russert's no chin? You just don't hear ridicule of male's body parts or clothes.

I don't watch TV...but I read about reactions from others.

ARe you talking sitcoms? All rather ugly men who have wives that are stacked and pretty....what a nice message to all the little girls to grow up with.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

172. That's not a stereotype that exactly benefits women

Don't forget that those bumbling oafs are invariably paired with "hot babes" - since why should any man be forced to fuck a non-attractive female, no matter how he himself looks! Furthermore, Hot Babe, if she is not already legally wed to Bumbling Oaf, is absolutely desperate to drag him down the aisle. Her life is incomplete and on hold until he bestows the magical and all-important ring on her finger, so she can play nursemaid and nanny to her overgrown toddler of a mate. This is a ubiquitous plot staple and it is damn tiresome, IMO.

[NashVegas]

136. Say, Did You Hear the One About

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2375255

[ima_sinnic]

149. apparently you never watched Home Improvement

or any of the other similarly themed sitcoms whose whole premise revolves around the bumbling idiot guy and the level-headed, sane female.

[femrap]

165. I'm not talking about sitcoms.....

I was talking the News Media....HRC's cleavage, legs, clothes....no mention of Russert's no chin nor rove's double fat neck.

Home Imp....yes, with the cute, sexily clad little helper on the show. And that is an old show. Today's sitcoms had plain to ugly looking tubby husbands with wives that are stacked and pretty....good messaging to the little girls. And the sane female 'enables' the stupid boys' behavior. The husband is just another child to raise...yippee....just what I want.

I don't watch them....I can't. It's hurts my brain. All I can watch are repeats of Sex and the City.

[jbnow]

170. pumpkin head, tweety.... nt

[polmaven]

168. I think people need to laugh more too,

but NEITHER sexism nor racism is funny!

[me b zola]

182. Thank you

Neither is acceptable.

I must say as a woman and a Democrat that what I saw in the primary was alarming. While the sexism in the country was exposed, both by the general population and the media was disgusting, the Obama campaign never used it as a weapon. If the Obama campaign had used such tactics, they would have lost my support.

OTOH, once the math became all but impossible for the Clinton campaign, her campaign actively stoked the embers of racism that exist in this nation to divide and galvanize support for her. Never in a million years would I have believed that this would have occurred--yet it did. I'm still reeling from the blatant race-baiting used by such a prominent and (once)beloved Democrat.

I'm having a horrible time trying to understand why any progressive Democrat continued to support Hillary after her nasty shift. I work with two women whom are life-long Dems and continued to support Hillary after her blatant use of race-baiting. I'm really struggling to understand why good people can stand by a person who uses such tactics.

[merh]

17. Why, that was a true statement

And you must consider the statement in it's proper context. (Context is something folks like you have difficulty with.) His comments came when Hillary was claiming to have garnered her "experience" when she played a key role in the Northerm Ireland peace process. Those involved don't remember her hand in any of it beyond the "social" elements. The comment was made in response to her exaggerations as to her part in the peace efforts. If it wasn't true then they would have released to the public Chelsea's thesis which she wrote after talking in depth to her father about the Northern Ireland peace efforts. They would have proudly released that paper and not blocked it from public view and would be able to stand on the claim that Hillary had an intricate role in those efforts. Instead, the thesis is not available for public scrutiny and the Northern Ireland peace experience dropped from her speeches.

As first lady she did a remarkable job as first lady but had no national security clearance - she did what first ladies do, which include tea parties and socials.

[genna]

51. Question: Is it time that we (AFTER THE ELECTION IS A DONE DEAL) change the role of the First Lady?

Social graces and manners are VERY IMPORTANT.

Shouldn't the First Lady have the role of Feminist in Chief? All the issues that Eleanor Roosevelt looked after, Hillary Clinton claimed allegiance to, and all the things we hope Michelle Obama believes in...can't those issues define the office of First Lady?


I think while Cheney expanded the role of VP beyond all presidential recognition...it is a good thing that Gore transformed the informal role that was established under Quail.


I think if people go after the First Spouse directly, I think they should be able to take a much more formal role. Most of the recent spouses VP and POTUS have had to quit their formal careers because of the requirements of their spouse's office. Why can't they do more considering all they must give up?


There is a lot of work and oversight that goes into being in office. Why not formalize some of these duties so people don't lose their minds with signs "I voted for HIM, NOT HER!"

Maybe it is a fake possibility, but let's stop lying about what is required.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

54. If being the First Lady for 8 years qualifies one for higher office because FL's

are often involved in diplomatic missions all over the world, then perhaps Laura Bush is qualified to be president! If one really ponders that assumption, one would come to realize just how ridiculous that is.

[genna]

100. I am not talking Presidential qualifications, I am pointing to a more formal role for intelligent

First Ladies.

Laura Bush, Barbara Bush, and Nancy Reagan aside...

Quail's wife was capable.
Hillary was capable.
I think Michelle is capable.
Cheney's wife is capable.


Why not formalized a structured role for First Lady?

I understand the dismissal, but I don't understand why a formal role with formal policy considerations can't become standard fare so that the snark IS NOT possible.

[femrap]

129. L. Bush doesn't have a law degree from

Yale, does she? Hell, HRC or any other 1st Lady could have a Phd. in rocket science and it wouldn't be enough...there are always questions and jokes tossed about regarding a woman's accomplishment. Just like Right Now...law degree vs. librarian (or was it teaching?)

[dkf]

98. The role of First Lady is the epitome of sexism.

What is the role or a First Lady? It is to do whatever your husband wants you to do. Geez. You play hostess to his guests, you get projects he is okay with, you doll up the White House and arrange for the Christmas Tree ceremony. You raise the kids, mostly by yourself because he is so danged busy.

I think if we were really pro-feminist, we would lobby to get rid of the role completely.

[genna]

101. I think the direction of feminism was to allow women to be who they wanted to be

because of their talent and desires.


There are women who excel at these activities. Martha Stewart has made a career on it.

I don't want to cut those women out simply because I would not feel happy doing those activities. I don't think that is constructive.

Instead I'm saying if you are capable of doing policy wonkish things and want to define yourself in different ways, why not have a formal position in office so that the American people can properly give the FL credit.

Part of HRC's problem in saying she was in office for 8 years is that she could not quantify what she was doing during that time.

If there was a formal, recognized role, then the next FL who runs for office can have a record to stand on. If she has a budget, she can direct attention to her work, can't she?

[dkf]

108. I don't think that a person should get any role because of who they are

married to.

A person should not be defined by their spouse or their spouse's job.

If there are no conflicts of interest, the President's spouse should be able to do things such as run a non-profit or be a Doctor, or be a teacher or librarian, or lawyer.

I think the role should be abolished.

[JoFerret]

167. Let's work for a woman president to end that sexism foever

Right now we see Michelle Obama being shoehorned into that role. Crap.

[Zhade]

158. Ah yes! The Northern Ireland lie!

With the rest, I'd forgotten that one.

[guruoo]

171. ROTFL!

"...- she did what first ladies do, which include tea parties and socials."

:rofl:

[MethuenProgressive]

20. That line was written for him by Karl Axelrod.

And did the damage intended.

[rodeodance]

25. yes, the damage was done.

[still_one]

35. and Hillary did not help when she said she and mccain were qualified to be president

but Obama was just a speech

[JoFerret]

44. He does not get

...the generation that came before him.

Maybe none of us ever do.

[roguevalley]

107. it was. this is politics, not a country cotillion. and her experience against his 'speech'.

is acceptable to you under your standards? Jeez. this is politics.

[hokies4ever]

117. I raise you "Obama just has a speech he gave in 2002"

Please stop before you embarrass yourself in such a public forum. :rofl:

[Zhade]

157. Is the truth to be regarded as sexist now? It's not like she dodged snipers or anything.

NT!

[Fla Dem]

12. I don't think they personally blame Obama

But, surely his supporters, as evidenced by the numerous posts of a sexist nature even here on DU.

:shrug:

[Mezzo]

23. This is oh, so true, but he is a bit selective as referenced in my other post

[femrap]

130. Tell me if I'm wrong, but

I have NEVER heard BO say one thing about sexism and the ridicule that HRC took. I don't think sexism or women's issues are high on his list of priorities. Do you?

Read his wife's interview in Dec. 'o7 Harpers. Eye opening.

[Critters2]

134. Exactly. He should have spoken out. Instead...dead silence. nt

[femrap]

166. Same with Howard Dean, head of the

DNC. Not a peep. I think I'll write Mr. Dean a letter and remind him that women are the backbone of the party he represents.

eta: sorry, Dr. Dean.

[Mezzo]

22. yeah, just brush that 'fucking whore' off his shoulders, but Imus can go to hell.

[genna]

52. Why impute him with words he never said? He was talking about the loss not Hillary

If you care to misconstrue it fine, but let's not fake the funk anymore.

The shoulder brush off is as common in the AA community as giving someone a pound.

[cottonseed]

112. If you think that's what that was. You need to have it explained to you.

He was "brushing off" the moderators attacking him at the debate. You know, George Stephanopolous? I don't know if you're a younger or older women, but if you're taking Ferraro's interpretation of this, you're mistaken.

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[krkaufman]

121. what the hell are you talking about?

Exactly *who* used the term "fucking whore" that you've quoted, and in reference to whom? And what does it have to do with Dom Imus?

Nevermind. I've a Saturday and bright future to begin enjoying.

[chimpymustgo]

28. Obama has slickly led the sexist charge. "Periodically down" "Annie Oakley", snubbing her at the

SOTU. The way he looked down his nose at her. The way he always moved quickly to pull out her chair after a debate - that wasn't chivaly - it was screaming, "she's a woman - let me help her". Obama had a strategy from Day one to marginalize Clinton as a hysterical woman.
***
AP:

“ I understand that Senator Clinton, periodically when she’s feeling down, launches attacks as a way of trying to boost her appeal,” he told reporters.

’Cause you know how women are….

Driven by feelings…. Worried about their appeal… Prone to tears… The whole phases of the moon thing…

And did you catch the dogwhistle in “periodically”?

http://www.correntewire.com/stay_classy

[rodeodance]

53. and the mean Tanya Harding theme came from Obama's camp also-and the DNC

official lapped it up on national TV also. birds of a feather.

[genna]

92. What is their name? Either in the BHO campaign or the DNC?

Who specifically did this Tanya Harding-knee capping caricature?

[krkaufman]

122. Re: "Tonya Harding" ... Really? I'd *love* to see any evidence of this.

'Cause it came from the punditry, from what I recall.

[genna]

55. You are alleging feelings and thoughts to him. HRC claimed BHO supporters did that with race.

What did the man actually say that objectified HRC?

Is chilvary, opening doors and letting women walk in first, sexist?

[cap]

40. This thread is meant as a means to help Hillary supporters transition

The first step in a transition is giving them a comfort zone.

[ensho]

56. ridiculous - 'transition' 'comfort zone'

Hillary supporters don't need 'explanations' explaining what they need to do and feel.

keep your teddy bears.

[cap]

73. winning political campaigns means forming coalitions

we want these people on our team as enthusiastic supporters. So how to change people from being bitterly disappointed into being enthusiastic? You give them a place to go to.

What's your plan for changing their disappointment into enthusiasm?

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

71. Bill's abuse/disrepect of HIllary radicalized me, as did Hillary's kitchen sink

and oh there's her assassination remarks.

[springhill]

90. You are a liar.

[cap]

96. so what's your plan to build the coalition?

how do you bring everyone on board?

[Name removed]

135. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Balderdash]

145. Clinton supporters

don't blame Obama but it sure would have been really nice (to put it mildly) if Obama, the DNC and perhaps Democratic Underground could have spoken up about the nastieness instead of allowing it to boost their choice. But bygones right? Not a problem, I'll be voting for the Democratic nominee in November like a good Democrat and after that, I'll be an independent looking for organizations that are more woman friendly.

[jasmine621]

2. This is what Hillary meant when she said she wanted her supporters to be

respected... I there could be a really good documentary for Moyers on this. A truth in media documentary.

[Aloha Spirit]

3. I so agree, and honestly, have thought the same thing.

Now, how do we get this party started?

[Donkey_Punch_Dubya]

5. I noticed there were no Republican women on the receiving end

Only Hillary, Pelosi, and other democrats. There were certainly republican women on the giving end, like Michele Malkin (sp).


What a surprise. :sarcasm:

[Fla Dem]

9. Unfortunately, having worked in the corporate world for many years

I have found that some women can be even more brutal toward successful women than men. It's pettiness, jealousy, and I think sucking up to men.

[glowing]

11. Oh, God yes... Women hate me..

They are insecure around me because of assets... It has always been hard for me to maintain female friends. I have been more viciously attacked by females in the work place than male co-workers...

[Fla Dem]

15. Amen, sister eom

[glowing]

27. Its really sad.. because I'm really a nice person and love to laugh and

I don't stab people in the back ever.. I got weird looks at my first CodePink meeting I went to.. they thought I looked like I walked in the wrong door. Some thought I was from the "other" side.. but the more I worked and cared, they realized that I'm just a person.

I don't get it as much now that I'm a bit older and have a kid and a ring and a bit of puffin on the butt... so, its not as hard as when I left school with a science degree and was a manager by 23 of a dept.. the bitches took me down.. the men couldn't believe how badly women in other depts treated me.

[Writer]

46. I had very similar experiences.

In my very first job, I had just made 22. One woman in the office was extremely petty and insecure (she was going through a divorce) and didn't like that one of the male VP's was taking a shine to me professionally. She started spreading rumors that I was sleeping with him, sleeping with people in other departments, etc.

I just moved to New York and got a better job. She moved out of the company and rotted in some sales job somewhere. What a petty little thing she was.

[Darth_Kitten]

37. Male co-workers are just as petty........in fact, they can be more vicious.

I don't buy the argument than women in the workplace are always jealous of other women.......

[Fla Dem]

41. No, absolutely there were many supportive women in my life

as well as supportive men. I guess I just expect less pettiness and back stabbing from women against another woman. And believe me it does goes on. Is it jealousy, are they threatened, or just plain nasty. I don't know...not a psychologist, but having been on the receiving end, i know it exists.

[Darth_Kitten]

156. I've been on the receiving end of both.

People, period, can be pretty insecure and base. :(

[Amimnoch]

62. I don't know how to state this without sounding sexist and racist, but

I have to admit I've observed the same thing in the places I've worked.

As a gay white male, I must say my personal observations in the work place has been that women do seem to tear each other apart in the workplace, and African American women the more so than most. Some seeming nice as can be when face to face each other, and turn into an outright she-devil as soon as their "friend" leaves the room. It has often seemed to me that the most successful ones receive the most venom from their peers, and subordinates.

[genna]

102. Can the AA women you know speak to how all women are and act?

AS TO RACISM AND SEXISM, only you can say whether you believe all women or all black women are just like the ones you know at work.


I've met and known many gay men who are not reflective of the gay community as a whole.

[Doityourself]

18. You would be right. I witness it all the time as a female Manager.

[cap]

93. what needs to be added to the platform to address your concerns?

how can we change this so that other women don't go through what you have?

Do we need anti-bullying added to the law? How about mobbing or other types of workplace abuse?

[femrap]

137. I've been a 'mole' at large Republican

meetings and gatherings....I'm always amazed at how the 'leaders' treat everyone with respect. A person who stands up and asks the stupidest question and people groan...yet the 'leader' is understanding.

I was somewhat envious of the consideration and respect given to everyone. Oh well....their policies certainly aren't respectful.

[WeDidIt]

6. The media demonstrated incredible mysogony

as well as demonstrated a typical racially biased double standard.

Either candidate would have been at a disadvantage with an obviously biased media.

But there is nio denying, the sexist crap spewed by the media was unrelenting.

[glowing]

8. Feminism is not just about pushing the rights of women... its about pushing

the idea of equality and access to those equal rights. We do not need more divisions; we need more unity.... The first mistake in the movement was the division and split of women from blacks when pushing for access to vote. We know that black men were allowed a vote before women in this country and it left a great division in working towards equality in general (one of the reasons it was probably done was to create the division because it was a very strong unified cause).

Another great division in the women's movement came with pushing for access to jobs.. which is great, but they should have appealed and asked to unify with Unions and workers rights groups, rather than creating a division and a fear by men that their ability to bring home adequate pay was going to hurt because of a new waive of workers entering the work force... men and women should have worked together and pushed for less hours per work week, better pay, and better benefits.. Instead our Govt received more taxes, social security got a boost, and corporations got a cheaper worker exploiting women trying to break into the work force.

I'm not about burning bras and working to uplift just myself; I want my son to have equal access.. along with his future mate to have a better life that doesn't mean working opposite shifts and multiple jobs to survive like he watches my husband and I do. So, women need to work in unity with various groups to push equality and better lives. Which is why I think we have many women groups or groups that are devised of mainly women working on different causes....

BUT the media is something we all need to unite behind and demand real substantial news that works better...

[genna]

61. The divisions worked and have brought gains at the expense of the other

The more this primary went on, the more I thought of how many white women in the 1920s argued against voting rights for blacks because they questioned our humanity.

Look racism is not a male or female thing. It is a privilege problem.


The more most regular people talk about sexism, the more racism I've heard over this primary process.

Check the history, the dysfunctional part of the woman's movement is choosing to separate from the basis of privilege. I'd love to see some human rights be equal across the board, but not at the expense of AA people or any other nonwhite group of people.

The media has been virulently silent on equal access to all groups. I doubt very seriously that the media will reform because women are angry. Women have to organize a great deal more to force the media to be more inclusive.

Who is willing to mount that charge?

Emails are good.
Economic pressure is better.

[femrap]

140. As a Black woman, what did you think

of Frederick Douglas leaving his sister without the Vote? I know Susan B. fought for suffrage for both Blacks (female and male) and White women....but only the Black man got the vote. Women waited another 50 years. Frederick Douglas went on to ridicule Susan B. It's as if everyone has to have a 'dog' to kick around. I hate hierarchy.

I'm a member of NOW and I find their work is for ALL women. I believe a Black woman is the Treasurer of NOW. The VP is Latina.

[LaurenG]

13. Kicked and recommended

I agree, we need to get to work. Thank you for this topic!

[Bluenorthwest]

14. I let MSNBC and others

I let them know a few weeks ago that I could not watch them any more if I hoped to be able to vote for Obama. I had to turn the media off and ingore most of what was posted here in order to hear the candidates at all.
TV news is of no further use in my life. Cable in not even news anymore, just shouted opinions. I dig Keith, but what I really look for in news is investigative reporting and Keith does none of that, nor do the rest of the shouters. And yes, they were dripping with sexism and homophobia and bias of all kinds. Countdown becmae a locker room scene. And the fact is, Keith takes big giant money from G.E. to sell adtime. I lost my respect for him and many others who were decontructing Hillary according to their own prejudices, even as I attended campaign events and decied to vote for Obama in the end. The media message was not Obama's message. The media message was not Hillary's message. The media message was just a pitch to sell more adtime. They have one goal and that goal is money.

I attended live campaign events with the candidates and major surrogates. What you all saw on TV, that was not what I saw. Not at all. I saw two excellent camapigns by two excellent Democrats, both shining brighter due to the excellence of the other.

It is foolish and also dangerous to drop one's media scrutiny just because one is agreeing with the media at that moment. They sell adtime for a living. At all times. Even when they are singing along with your favorite song. They are selling adtime.

And now they divide our Party, or try to. Because that gives them an extension on the Primary fire sale of ads! They made a narrative for you to watch. Just like writers do. Good guy, bad guy, begining middle and end. Those who bought this Punch and Judy version of our Primaries are part of the problem.

[femrap]

141. KO has blocked me from sending him

emails....with others, he wrote scathing emails when he was called 'sexist.' I guess his ego has enlarged while his civility has withered.

I don't watch news on TV anymore either.

[hiphopnation]

16. thank you for sharing this....k&r

makes me want to strangle tweety ... the man is repulsive, not even worthy of my rage...ape shit my shoe.

this is just ... sad

[merh]

19. The media pundits were awful and the type of coverage shouldn't be allowed.

But it was not Obama, he actually was gracious to her when he could have been brutal. He took the high road and he didn't mock her or her positions as she did him. (Sorry, it is hard for me to forgive her for her hideous mocking of hope, the nasty frothing and immature condemnation of the hope his campaign offered to so many.)

We all need to work for equality and I hope that hillary will actually strive to do what it is she claimed to have done and would have done as president, but from the senate. She has a chair on senate subcommittee, may she use that position of power to do good and actually begin to hold hearings.

[femrap]

142. Has he ever mentioned that

sexist media coverage is bad? He let 'the boys' on TV have their fun at HRC's expense. Has he ever said anything about women's issues....specifically? I don't think we're too high on the priority list.

REad Dec. '07 Harper's interview of Michelle. I found it enlightening.

[dkf]

21. I hate having women for the sake of having women.

I want competence and expertise. This is our country we are talking about, not something we can take casually and lightly. I think Bush cared too much about the fact that Alberto Gonzales was Hispanic, and not enough about his competence.

Obama obviouly values women who he finds impressive, witness Susan Rice, and before she flubbed up Samantha Power.

His best surrogate has been Claire McCaskill.

Also, his wife is someone you do not screw with. Frankly, I see her as stronger than Hillary in terms of what she is willing to tolerate from a man.

Hillary is not my idea of the ideal female role model. Maybe if she dumps that womanizing creep I'll revise my opinion of her.

[Mezzo]

26. I hate having minorities for the sake of having minorities.

I could insert 'blacks', 'latinos', 'asians', etc and your statement would be offensive to you, I'm sure. Hopefully you'll be able to figure it out.

[dkf]

118. I don't like that either.

I believe in merit. I was never a big fan of affirmative action.

But I do believe in putting our resources to use in an equitable manner. In fact, I could go for extra educational help for those who are disadvantaged.

[cap]

38. I hope that you also hate not having women for the sake of not having women

as well. And not having minorities for the sake of not having minorities.

So how do you deal with the widespread disenfranchisement of women? 50% of the population can not be as unqualified all the time. Something is very wrong in this country.

[dkf]

119. Oh, I very much appreciate that also.

Frankly, there are more women getting degrees than men nowadays. We will catch up.

Its just that this was not the case for the older generation.

Read up on Nancy Pelosi...in a family with a bunch of sons and 1 daughter, her mom sent NANCY to the best schools.

[femrap]

144. When do we get competent men?

Gonzales was a asskisser....that's what W has around. That's who he selects. Claire McCaskill is way too republican for me. She votes with them....she's from $$ and votes their wishes.

Read Harper's Dec. 07..interview of Michelle. She came off as very homey and soft and angry that BO was never home to help with the kids. And he wasn't. Just like his father.

I still see HRC in '92 with her headband saying that she wasn't a 'stand by your man women staying home baking cookies.' Boy....Bill's handlers got on her for that...and she never said that again. But I rather enjoyed it. I think it was an interview with Baa Baa Walters.

[Mezzo]

24. but they say there IS no sexism.

[rug]

29. Barn door.

[gabeana]

30. The Hillary side in this campaign reminded me of the Repugs

when they cried about the "liberal" press. There was no liberal press but by acting like there was one, it created the impression to the public that the press was actually liberal. Same with Hillary, the soft sexism that one can charge towards her was no different than the soft racism against Obama, While Obama did not want to be the Black candidate, Hillary from the get go was the "I'm our girl" candidate. And sorry, if Hillary wasn't married to a former president she wouldn't even be a senator let alone a viable candidate for President of the United States, those crodidile tears don't need to be wasted on her, stop utilizing victim hood, she had all the advantages coming into this eletion and lost.

[Fla Dem]

64. What crystal ball are you using?

"And sorry, if Hillary wasn't married to a former president she wouldn't even be a senator let alone a viable candidate for President of the United States"

"A native of Illinois, Hillary Rodham first attracted national attention in 1969 for her remarks as the first student to deliver the commencement address at Wellesley College. She embarked on a career in law after graduating from Yale Law School in 1973. Following a stint as a Congressional legal counsel, she moved to Arkansas in 1974, and married Bill Clinton in 1975. She was later named the first female partner at Rose Law Firm in 1979, and was twice listed as one of the one hundred most influential lawyers in America. She was the First Lady of Arkansas from 1979 to 1981 and 1983 to 1992 and was active in a number of organizations concerned with child welfare, as well as sitting on the boards of several corporations."

Hillary was well on her way to a successful life. Would she have entered politics, who knows, I don't have a crystal ball. But for you to make such a statement is nonsense and sexist.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

70. what "feminist" stays married to a philanderer who disrespects her before the world?

Feminist? Staying married to someone for business?

Bill's sexual escapades are highly abusive and disrespectful of his "wife".

[WillyToad]

77. You will be neutered in a few days

After that you can exercise your hatred out with a good shrink

[Fla Dem]

87. Couldn't agree with you more. I would have been thrilled if she

had left him. But she didn't, and I again have to admit to not having a crystal ball. I cannot even suppose why she stayed with him. Many women, strong and weak stay in dysfunctional marriages. That doesn't diminish what SHE ACHIEVED ON HER OWN, OR COULD HAVE ACHIEVED ON HER OWN. The point I was addressing.

[femrap]

143. I am so sick of hearing this argument....

I know so many women whose husbands/live-ins have cheated on them. Don't you? Did you tell them how to live their lives? Some stayed with them...some didn't. But it certainly isn't any one else's business to tell someone else how to live their lives. Reminds me of those anti-choice people. geez.

[genna]

97. The issue RAISED was elected OFFICE.

Condoleeza Rice's name is raised for VP on the Republican side because of her name recognition. The problem with her is she did not stand for elected office. She has a wide span of managerial job experience, but elected office.


Here with Clinton, you are asking us (HRC was asking us) to see her private world experience as a means of defining herself as the most experienced candidate.

The problem with that argument is elected office requires something that private world doesn't: scrutiny. HRC was panned for how she handled health care in part to the fact she ignored political considerations. Those things are important in elected office.


This is one thing that needs to be stated over and over. All of us are fairly competent in what our jobs are, but if we stood up for public office that private world experience would not necessarily be directly relevant.

This is and was HRC's problem.

[cap]

104. but as women, we could not take the traditional path to power

because these avenues have been blocked off. So the first people out front have not qualified in the traditional manner. Hopefully, their success means the traditional avenues will open up for the rest of us.

[seaglass]

31. I have a really difficult time walking arm in arm with Obama

supporters who have denied repeatedly that there has been any sexism used against Hillary, who have recognized it and dismissed it, have added to it here at DU and throughout the blogosphere or have twisted what the majority of people objecting to the sexism are saying. This has gone waaaaaaaaaaaaaay beyond Hillary Clinton - and I was a Hillary defender not a supporter - driven to defend because of the way she was treated.

I have always known that there are weak women who weren't on my side, I didn't think there were so many in the Democratic party.

I will be voting for Obama because I HAVE NO CHOICE but it is doubtful I will ever become an Obama supporter, frankly I don't want to be associated with most of them. They have done a real disservice to Obama.

[jonestonesusa]

45. Who is it that denied that sexism was used against Clinton?

Plenty of sexist attacks were used against Clinton - sexism is rife in our social institutions and interactions, it's a part of social structure. It will continue to be a factor until we have significant shifts in our ways of life. I'm surprised anyone who is looking honestly at human culture would doubt or deny this. But some of the reactions of Clinton in this campaign also relate to key policy votes, one's assessment of her husband's record, and negative reactions to her statements. It's certainly fair to say that her campaign did not maximize her potential support.

Racism is a factor too in how Obama has been treated. We know this from polling data and the experiences of volunteers, including the reports of James Clyburn among many other testimonies. Here are a couple of articles with perspectives on racism as it affects Obama's chances and the experiences of his campaign staff and volunteers, according to survey research and testimony.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/12/AR2008051203014_pf.html

http://www.newsweek.com/id/138456

However, there's plenty of denial about that all over DU, even when the Democratic party as a whole supposedly appreciates black voter opinion and is considered the best party home for them. There's no excuse for this dismissal of racism - the knee-jerk unwillingness to discuss this dimension of the campaign. This will continue during the GE season and intensify.

African American women were not even given the courtesy of being considered part of the category "women" in quite a few analyses of this election. There's also lots of polling data suggesting that Obama voters would have come to Clinton in greater numbers than Clinton voters would come home to Obama.

I regret that in this campaign we seem to have lost what the feminist movement learned since the 1960s - that there are differences in privilege among women, and some women still assert the ability to speak for all women. Similarly, African Americans are often considered to be one category in the way that we discuss the Obama campaign. I hope that we do not continue to dismiss the differences in cultural standpoint, social class, and sensibility the future that exist among "African Americans" and among "women" so that a movement to improve conditions can take real social conditions into account.

[genna]

63. what jonestonesusa said

[cap]

80. I am hoping for such a movement too

[seaglass]

95. Obama supporters on DU - you could probably do a search on

the topic and find out exactly who - very blatant but I'm not calling anyone out. I don't know how honest the denial was - whether it really wasn't recognized or statements were made out of pure partisanship. Frankly, it doesn't matter.

I am absolutely not talking about legitimate criticism of Hillary Clinton.

We had THE perfect opportunity to talk about racism and sexism during this primary - within the family of Democrats. Instead sexism and racism were used as weapons against each other and no one listened.

[femrap]

147. I have all their names

on my Ignore List;)

[Kool Kitty]

75. There was sexism used against Hillary and there was

racism used against Obama. Chris Matthews forever asking if Obama could get the support of "normal Americans", and saying that Hillary would be nowhere without her husband-I know there are more examples, but he is one of the most strident.

[cap]

88. your difficulty with drumming up enthusiasm is why transition is so important

let's get issues identified and a platform solidified that make you "fired up and ready to go" -- I know it's in you :)

[seaglass]

111. Sorry, it's too late. A vote is all I have and am willing to give.

It will have to be enough.

[cap]

114. did Hillary's speech help change your mind?

no use looking back, gotta look forward...

It's more than just about Obama... it's about US.

[seaglass]

116. And that's the reason that Obama is getting my vote. If it wasn't

about US and was only about me, he wouldn't be getting it.

[femrap]

146. Bravo...! That's exactly how I feel as

well. And I'm rather pissed at the party too...for letting HRC (and women) be treated that way.

I just rec'd my letter from the Dem Party to volunteer again for their annual whatever dinner...and I tore it up. I seriously think that if someone said something nasty about HRC that I would let go...and maybe that's what I need to do. Maybe I'll save it for my first canvasser??? lol!

I'm actually glad that I don't have to canvass or phone or organize this time. I worked my ass off in '06 and what did it get me? Subpoena power? Articles of Impeachment? No more $ for Iraq war?

Yep, I'm an ABM...Anybody But McCain...so I hope I can hold my nose tight enough and vote for BO. I've never had to do that before.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

32. What Hillary supporters don't seem to understand is that it is equally sexist to assume

that Hillary is the *only* woman suitable for the job. She's not. To assume that only Hillary can aid Obama in his win is not only sexist, it's racist and insulting. To assume that Hillary is the best because she is a woman is in itself sexist. And to champion any candidate based on their physical characteristics diminishes everything that candidate stands for.

[Darth_Kitten]

36. Nobody thinks she's the only woman out there.

But on paper she's accomplished a helluva lot more than Obama. Why does a man's accomplishments stick to him yet a woman's almost never does?

[jonestonesusa]

49. "On paper she's accomplished a helluva lot more than Obama..."

What's your basis for saying this? I do not agree. Obama has more experience in elective office than Clinton, for instance, since he was a state legislator before he was a senator. I really appreciate his time in Chicago as an organizer, taking a significant cut in pay so that he could learn more at the ground level about community development and social attitudes that are barriers to achievement. He had a quite varied and interesting personal journey to get to where he is. I also find his experience in constitutional law and civil rights law to be better preparation than Clinton's experience in corporate law. I do appreciate Clinton's experience in the Watergate hearings, but there are significant questions about her preparation based on other experiences.

For instance, Hillary Clinton never answered adequately whether she was running in part on a record as critical political adviser to Bill Clinton, and therefore his stands are also hers, or is she consistently independent from him.

Even her work with the Children's Defense Fund has been discussed critically by Marian Wright Edelman in light of welfare reform.

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/editorblog/034

I've enjoyed my time discussing issues during the primary, but I've been disappointed in how little discussion there has been of Obama's accomplishments in comparison to Clinton's. To say that Clinton's experience is better is really just a talking point unless it's accompanied by discussion. I'm not even sure if Clinton supporters have honestly looked at Obama's personal and political accomplishments.

[femrap]

148. And he certainly is less qualified than

tons of other Black women or men.

eta: That big cut in pay he took while being an organizer....michelle took the corporate job paying $300,000/year so HE could have that luxury. Just want everyone to know the truth about that.

[Honeycombe8]

33. Obama isn't female, so he can't give the same kind of speech on gender as race.

Hillary can, whether she is VP or not. She is the most famous woman in the world.

However, I find all of this absurd and even harmful to feminist issues.

The surest way to sound whiney and unworthy is to shout about unfairness, and demand equal representation regardless of qualifications. Like the quota system for minorities years ago, when a woman DOES rise to a high rank, everyone will think she did so only because she was given the rank because of her gender and not because of her qualifications.

You wouldn't have caught Gold Meier or Margaret Thatcher insisting on being taken seriously because they're female. They did their jobs, assumed others saw them as equal, didn't care if others did not, and proceeded straight ahead regardless, thereby engendering respect and admiration from both genders around the world. That is what feminism is all about.

(I am a woman who has been supporting feminist ideals since about 1968.)

[cap]

48. I don't like quotas but they forced compliance

and they got the numbers up. Fear of EEOC and lawsuits forced changes in the workplaces where I have worked. I think we need to move beyond quotas. I am just not sure how -- if you have a better idea how to get the numbers up NOW, let me know. The power structure hasn't changed to the point where we can be oblivious. Why do so many workplaces have the following structure: Male manager, male guru(s), male team leaders, female ingenues and older female support staff (or manager in a non-line function)? Why do so many 20 somethings men start out with wives in careers and end up as 40 somethings with wives at home? Why are senior women disproportionately impacted by layoffs? Why are 30% of women on anti-depressants?

I graduated from an Ivy League university and I can see the differential in careers between my male and female fellow alumni. The above description still fits my fellow alumni. If Ivy League women aren't your types who "did their jobs, assumed others saw them as equal, didn't care if others did not, and proceeded straight ahead regardless, thereby engendering respect and admiration from both genders around the world", I don't know who is. We ain't at the promised land yet and it hasn't been from want of trying. Our beginning salaries still are disparate and this continues through our careers. Even though now, there are more female college graduates than men, it has not changed the power structure.

[femrap]

151. Considering what you're seeing of your

female alumni...I think you know why 30% of women are on anti-depressants.

Boys get by in college with 'C's'...they get into the Corporation and up, up and away. Corporations are like the military...men want to play business with other men. Women around takes away the fun. I had little success fighting the corporate ladder...I finally went into a career that paid me on commission...there I excelled. The numbers didn't lie. And most of the men hated me. They couldn't stand having a woman around doing their job better than they did. I made them flaccid....said a co-worker.

I wonder how the young women graduating today who are going into Corporate work are going to do...seems like in the past, they left after a few bad years and had kids. Given how bad the world is looking, I don't think reproducing is a good idea....but that's another story.

[cap]

179. One thing, I notice is that you need hard numbers

Your numbers on commission didn't lie... in other areas where it is much harder to prove competence, areas that rely on softer skills and no metrics are really hard to evaluate.

It looks like we got the 50's again... only we are allowed to get degrees. But, for many women, at the end of the day, our jobs are "pin money" -- not really able to support a household (especially once you subtract child care costs).

[Darth_Kitten]

34. This is a good start.

:D

[Youphemism]

39. Opposing Viewpoint...

No, I'm not going to defend those pundits.

But here's my cognitive dissonance problem: Okay, let's go with the premise that the media is very biased against women. I'm not understanding how getting so over-emotional about it as to say, "I'm never going to vote for Obama!" helps the cause. It doesn't, because McCain would make things worse and, by the way, it shows a vote based on emotion over reason.

Before I get pummeled for suggesting this, let me also say that I have no doubt that, if Obama had received more pledged delegates and yet the superdelegates decided this campaign in favor of Hillary, we'd be having the same discussion about the african american vote right now. And they'd be just as wrong.

McCain is worse for minority issues. He's worse for womens' issues. I don't see there being any logical argument about that. Why on Earth would Obama supporters vote for him if Hillary won? Why on earth would Hillary supporters vote for him now that Obama has won?

And, though gender bias in the media is a legitimate point, why is it being so confused with the campaign itself? Isn't our failure to make this distinction doing great damage to the cause of women?

This is the kind of crap that republicans love to watch, point to, and say, "There go the democrats, self-destructing again."

Let's not let them have that pleasure this time.

[Upton]

50. self delete

[cap]

68. the campaign needs to address it because these issues are national issues

We can work together to solve things and to enhance unity. This is a presidential campaign. Obama has a tag on his website stating what he will do for women. Let's add to that list for the party platform. Let's unify ourselves and go after the media.

[Triana]

42. I think this would be a much more constructive thing to do than not voting or voting...

...McCain.

I never denied that Hillary was treated with blatant sexism. Or, Obama with blatant racism. Maybe the sexism against Hillary was worse. I don't know that - but couldn't argue that it wasn't.

I don't believe that's why she lost, but there was DEFINITELY a lot of sexism there and I can get behind that it is definitely something that needs dealing with.

As a 48-year old woman in a male-dominated field, I've encountered many "iron my shirt!" moments myself - and worse, in my life. I KNOW sexism ain't dead and Hillary was subjected to plenty of it.

Same time though, I wouldn't vote for her because of that or because just she's female. I just wanted the best person for the job. I felt that was Obama. We'll have other female candidates.

And I don't believe Obama is to blame for the sexism with which Hillary was treated. I think he made a few what could be called 'sexist' remarks and Hillary made some racist ones too, to be fair. Both were involved in this primary.

But Hillary isn't to blame for racism. And Obama isn't to blame for sexism.

It exists still. Period. And yea, needs to be dealt with. Not voting for the Dem nominee or voting for a Repub ain't gonna fix it, so I'd much rather see something like you suggest, something more constructive done about it.

[Writer]

43. I am 120% with you.

I was one of those naive (younger) women who believed that the battle had been won.

How wrong I was.

[genna]

47. Maybe I'm getting it twisted, but you tell me

You are arguing that THE MEDIA acted an ass. I watched the commentary and was irritated by it.

THE MEDIA screwed Hillary Clinton SO OBAMA NEEDS TO REDRESS WOMEN'S GRIEVANCES?

I'm not against 50% representation for women in ALL FIELDS. I think it would be an improvement to representative democracy that it becomes representative and reflective of the population.

MY BIGGEST PROBLEM IS why start with Obama. If THE MEDIA created the problem, why not go after the MEDIA FIRST.

It is like choosing to strike out after 911 and going after Iraq, it is FAULTY REASONING. If you have a bad actor, you go after the bad actor. You don't then you choose to hit the bystander with your rage and say I SHOWED THE BAD ACTOR HOW PUNISHING I CAN BE.

To give you a different analogy, it is like the bullied child shooting up their high schools because the bullying happened there and they don't care who suffers.


GO AFTER THE MEDIA. Obama should show his chops on his own merit, not have people rage at him for years of white male privilege. It's like riots raging in black communities when the means are production are outside the community.

Follow the money. Be like Deaniacs, not get mad, get even with the media for all the b.s. coverage. Rage at them for their blatant disrespect and the fact their organizations don't reflect America.

[cap]

59. both the media and Obama can show leadership in this area

I am hoping that Obama as president will show leadership in this area and make the necessary changes in women's rights. Obama is the president of all of us and has the power to set the tone and policies in the area of women's rights. For starters, I would like him to reinstate a number of government offices that were started by Hillary to protect women and enhance their access to bank loans and capital that were closed by Bush. Through an increased emphasis on women's rights, he can address a lot of issues that lead people to support Hillary. This would give people a place to transition to.

The media needs to be cleaned up. Unfortunately, the media shapes a lot of discourse. We, as a nation, have allowed this type of discourse to pollute the air ways. We, as a nation, must demand this kind of talk to stop and for its perpetrators to be punished.

I see two things that need to be done: one, re-emphasizing women's dignity on television; and two, a re-invigoration on a national level of women's rights. It's a two prong approach -- not and either,or.

We need a place for Hillary supporters to go to. We can't say just sit down and shut up. Join your local campaign and do what we ask you to. They need a positive pull... not just a push.

This thread is not about Hillary... this thread is about the day after and finding a place for her supporters to go to.

[genna]

72. Access to governmental resources: I agree.

The government does more than provide access to resources.

I agree with this:

I would like him to reinstate a number of government offices that were started by Hillary to protect women and enhance their access to bank loans and capital that were closed by Bush.

Access to capital: check.
EEOC? enforcement: check.

What specific offices would address the concerns of women directly?


I do agree the administration sets the tone.

[cap]

78. government offices include:

the Small Business Administration that had an office specifically addressing women owned businesses with lots of funding and conferences and mentoring. The SBA had programs specifically designed to help women business owners get access to bank loans and private equity funding.

Additionally, every government agency had a women's office attached to its small business development unit that watched out for women's business in every department and monitored compliance. These offices had funding, know how, and teeth to back it up.

EEOC -- Department of Justice has a civil rights office that was supposed to do this. Bush eviscerated this office for both women and minorities. Filled it with Dim Wits from Regents University who prosecuted reverse discrimination cases only. Bush abolished the Office that was in charge of Prevention of Violence Against Women.

All this needs to get put back in place and then some. Obama will definitely do EEOC because Women and the African American and Latino and Asian communities demand it. I think it will be a very healing thing to emphasize what he will do for women.

[genna]

84. Specific offices include SBA and EEOC claims/Justice Department enforcement

Works for me...

Obama nation:

Those of you who know the specific policy manual the candidate has, how does the campaign address these offices?

Are there any Obama quotes about women commanding leads because these offices stepped up under the Clinton administration and fell back under Bush?

[genna]

79. Specific action items make more sense

one, re-emphasizing women's dignity on television; and two, a re-invigoration on a national level of women's rights.

I don't have a problem with a proportional system of representation. Quotas don't require unqualified people to step up.

I think that the medias lack of on air talent who are women is an OBVIOUS place to start. I don't like Katie Couric, but I doubt that is a good thing that she is leaving 1 of 3 anchor slots for the public airways.

On cable news, how many women are on air running MSM shows? Nancy Grace, Greta Van Susteran, and who else?

The women on Fox are what is wrong with television journalism. I am glad that CNN's anchor found a soft landing at the news hour, but at some point I think older women should be able to give hard news like Bill Moyer and Bob Schieffer.



How would we emphasize women's dignity on television?

You'd literally have to retrain every single man on television whether host or guest. Joe Scarsborough said they were living in fear at MSNBC news (Bill Maher HBO). Well, living in fear doesn't get the job done. Negotiating tenable points of agreement about sexist language does work.

I corrected a Republican co-worker EARLY for saying HRC was a shrew. I asked him what the male equivalent of that was? He said he didn't know. I told him if there was it didn't have the impact of shrew.


Women need to come to an agreement (even if it is 10% of women) on what equal treatment means. I don't like the idea that the media was attacked as sexist for name calling. They were calling Obama a wimp...not tough...no balls. Seriously, I think that is a problem of name calling based on caricature rule. I didn't like that either.

[cap]

83. how about the miniskirts and boots and cleavage on FOX...

that can't be a woman's choice. I work sometimes up in NYC and nobody's wearing that stuff... and New Yorkers wear everything!

[genna]

91. I think the cleavage, legs, and shapely shirts are AT ISSUE

As far as I know...

Tim Russert is not shapely...but his mind still works.

Keith Olbermann does not have a broad shouldered, toned abs, and gripping legs...but his ability to cut to the chase of an issue makes me feel good about him.

Chris Matthews' hair keeps changing colors...but his ability to advocate for his point of view is without question.


Andrea Mitchell, Mika Brezskinski and the pregnant woman whose name escapes me right now...are about the right height, right weight, and right temperment for women.


At least, Rachel Maddow has the fire to her point of view and position. Can we get a little of that out there.


Candy Crowley makes me happy on CNN because she does fit the size, weight and height requirements.

Fox News' mini-skirts and former beauty pagent winners just are beneath doubt about competency. But Fox News is not truly a news organization. It is an ideologue RW dream.

[cap]

94. Or should we demand equal time...

tight tee shirts, bulging arms, tight pants, etc....

Equal Exploitation for All

Just kidding :)

[genna]

103. Well, now that I've watched Hollywood male actors become as sexy as they want the women to be

I can say equal exploitation sucks.


If I have to watch Bruce Willis take his clothes off one more time, I might flip out.

Danny Glover's nakedness disturbed me in Oprah's movie.


If there most be exploitation, I guess it should be equal. I can just picture Jim Lehrer in a tube top now.


:puke:

[cap]

115. maybe if it were equal... it would stop

eom

[femrap]

150. I'm not.

I wouldn't mind looking at a handsome man....AND I DON'T SEE A ONE TELLING ME ABOUT THE STATE OF WORLD. I did hear that Charlie Gibson got some face work...and he needs it.

What I'd give for tight pants for men to come back in style. Long hair....Tim Russert and Karl Rove should be required to wear paper bags over their heads while on TV. :evilgrin:

[cap]

85. also, the guys on MSNBC should stop hectoring Mika Brzezinski

these guys are sooo overbearing with her.

Gosh, the media is a fertile ground for reform, isn't it?

[genna]

105. Yes, Morning Joe needs to be reformed. Mika can't finish a sentence AT ALL.

But I've found since Joe left to be with his wife for those 2 or 3 weeks, I don't like Mika.

I'd prefer Rachel Maddow.


But my disdain for Mika does not mean she shouldn't be lampooned by all the boys all the time.

THERE IS PLENTY OF ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT ON MSNBC.

[cap]

109. i aint crazy about Mika either

but it's just awful what happens to her on that show.

[OzarkDem]

60. The party and its candidate

have stumbled into this mess and have done nothing to defend Clinton's unfair treatment in the news media.

In addition, there's a growing laundry list of problems the Dem party is facing regarding women's issues. Its time for them to get out front on the issue before the GOP exploits the division further.

[Upton]

65. Unfair treatment?

If anything, Clinton has set the cause of feminism back by her continued dubious claim that sexism was to blame for her defeat. She was beaten by the better candidate, duly chosen by the Democratic Party. Lets leave it at that.

[cap]

69. we can't leave it at that

regardless of the merits of Hillary Clinton, there's a lot of work that needs to be done. If Hillary had beaten Obama, I would also say that we need to address racism in this country and that Hillary should amp up her support of African Americans.

[Name removed]

152. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Upton]

57. I guess I'm dense

but in the link you provided, I saw Matthews acting somewhat creepy, as he commented women on their looks, along with a few conservatives acting the way they usually do. I in no way see how this reflects poorly on the Obama campaign or, for that matter, on the media as a whole.

I also don't understand how this has suddenly become the responsibility of Obama and his campaign. Women are doing just fine, where I live, we have a female Governor and two women Senators. With all due respect, may I suggest a little lightening up might be in order.

[cap]

67. women are not doing just fine ...

with a paygap of 70% of a man's pay and an anti-depressant use of 30%.

[Lex]

76. Don't you just love the "lighten up" remark?

Often told to gays, African Americans, and women for years upon years.

[cap]

81. my response is: If I Keep on Truckin', it Will Lighten Up

If we keep on pushing, it will lighten up. :)

[Name removed]

155. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OzarkDem]

58. Excellent idea!

I think many Dem women feel the same way. I must say its great to see women voters become re-energized to advance a women's agenda in the Dem party.

The GOP seems intent on dividing women voters to their advantage and the Dem leadership has sadly fallen down on the job when it comes to women's issues. Its time to "raise their awareness" and restore parity for real women's issues in the party.

This should be a major topic at the Convention in August and will hopefully become a big part of the Party's platform. This would be a good time to start developing some key women's issues to put into the platform.

[cap]

66. what issues would you like to see put in the platform...

We can start with Obama's women's tab on his campaign site. He's got a lot of good stuff to start with What else do you think needs to be done? I am saying words must be matched with action. I think the platform must include a resounding endorsement of Roe v Wade and a commitment to place pro-choice judges throughout the judicial system, reinstatement and protection of abortion clinics so that states can not effectively abolish abortion with only one clinic statewide, examination of all legal language that has been used to limit abortion and remove any and all references that can be used to deny women of other legal rights (this is the most important thing going here). Other stuff includes the ERA, Pay Equity, truly equal opportunity in the workplace, forcing an equal promotion/pay scale (with all the foreclosures going on, women need to be able to bail out their families :) ), funding time off spent in FMLA. Figuring out a national health care system that gives adequate support to the elderly so that women are not stuck juggling the aged. Bringing back the 8 hour day so that men have the time off to participate with their families. Child care support, anyone?

Anything else that I am missing?

[femrap]

159. Funding for Domestic Violence Shelters

and mandatory education programs (taught by males) for the abuser which is male 99% of the time.

eta: cheap birth control, more free women's health clinics, cheap tampons, subsidized day care and the workers are paid a good wage.

[MarjorieG]

74. I agree, but the women must understand Obama won fair and Hill wasn't robbed.

I don't agree with her rovian, divisive attacks, and there are many mistakes that cost Hillary, but that doesn't negate the substance and points we saw.

Men can be insensitive, and when on air, interact like they're at the frat house. Might be the effort to fill time and go for the low blow. They weren't exactly enlightened about the Wright issue, either.

[femrap]

161. But let's make sure that the boys

can still be 'insensitive' and behave like 'frat' boys....we certainly wouldn't want to rain on their little parades. After all, ridiculing and humiliating women is just All American, let 'boys be boys' fun.

And may one of the boys NEVER stand up and say: "Hey, ugly boy in the Media, WTF is up with you coming down on my sister?" It's like the rape jokes....every hear a boy in the crowd speak up against such vile?

Nope, no gentlemen around here. Move along, bitch....go get me a beer.

Read Harper's Dec. '07 interview of Michelle. Enlightening.

Women are never robbed...they never have anything in the first place.

[wvbygod]

82. Don't forget msnbc and their pro-Obama and anti-Hillary bias

I can't even watch them now after their shameless promotion of all things Obama. Keith O.
can also kma for his cheap shots against Bill and Hillary.

[LittleBlue]

86. IIRC, his oldest advisor other than his wife is a woman

Can't remember her name right now, but saw it in a Newsweek article. She was a friend of Michelle's, and became his friend too. IIRC, she has been his and Michelle's mentor since the beginning.

[cap]

89. get her face out there... front and center

and have her start talking about women's issues.

[DesEtoiles]

99. FEMINISM YOU CAN XEROX!

[genna]

106. Xerox...

:spank:

:nopity:


Feminism has to be geniune.

[cap]

110. we need a good dose of feminism NOW

what's your plan on including it in the platform and implementing it in the campaign?

[noiretextatique]

113. i am with you

i just watched a documentary about "video vixens" again. i am sooo with you.

[Auntie Bush]

120. I agree, Chris Matthews is the sexist pig.

In fact he is a wild boar!

[dorktv]

123. I was going to post something but now I realise there is no point.

People will not understand.

[KaptBunnyPants]

124. Chris Matthews should be gone for many reasons.

But chief among them is the constant reemergence of his insecure masculinity. His role as character assassin against Gore, his cod piece-philia, and his difficulties with strong women all speak to the deep disservice that NBC does to this country by airing his show. And as for Fox... the entire Fox network should be burned to the ground and salted over to prevent anything from growing there again.

[bhikkhu]

125. I agree, and the media deserves to be a target

I don't watch tv, but the clips that I see of programs covering both candidates have been appalling. The more the supposed objective or acceptable news people practice ridiculous sexist and racist posturing, the more it seems normal and acceptable in society as a whole. Some of those guys just need to be fired, others need to be called out.

When you see something that has no place in our society, much less on our tv's, let them know. Here is a list (from FrenchieCat). Feel free to add, edit, and repost; I think we all should have one:

Ben Smith - Politico
e-mail: [e-mail]
aim: benobserver

Rachel Maddow -- Air America Radio
Title: Co-host
Department: Unfiltered
E-mail: http://airamerica.com/contact
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

E-mail Ed Schultz during the show!
[e-mail]

STEPHANIE MILLER SHOW
[e-mail]

Randi Rhodes
E-mail: [e-mail]

Keith Olbermann -- MSNBC
Title: Host
Department: Countdown with Keith Olbermann
E-mail: [e-mail]


Chris Matthews -- MSNBC
Title: Host
Department: Hardball with Chris Matthews
E-mail: [e-mail]
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Tim Russert -- NBC News
Title: Host; Senior VP; Washington Bureau Chief
Department: Meet the Press
E-mail: [e-mail]
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Bob Schieffer -- CBS News
Title: Anchor & Moderator - FTN; Interim Anchor - CBS Evening News; Chief Washington Correspondent
Department: Face the Nation with Bob Schieffer
E-mail: [e-mail]
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]


Jill Abramson -- New York Times
Title: Managing Editor - Newsgathering
Department: Headquarters
E-mail: [e-mail]
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Robin Toner -- New York Times
Title: Political, Congressional Correspondent
Department: Washington Bureau
E-mail: [e-mail]
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]


LIST ALL CNN SHOWS AND INDIVIDUAL PERSONALITIES CONTACTS - http://www.cnn.com/feedback/cnntv /

SAME FOR MSNBC - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18616878

[cap]

126. we need to send email to their bosses

not just the hosts

[femrap]

127. Write to BO....tell him

what you'd like to see. I listened to a speech of his a couple of days ago....he was listing how he was going to help the Latinos, the young, the old, the blacks, on and on and finally last but not least he said, 'women.' I don't think he sees 'women's issues' as that important. But I would like to be proven wrong.

Hey....is the ERA on the Democratic Platform...it wasn't in '04 (if I remember correctly).

BO will have his wife talk about how lovely women are...how pretty yet strong, intelligent yet humble, persuasive yet undemanding.

Yeah....go write BO and see what he does. It's too bad that 51% of the American population isn't taken as seriously as AIPAC...they got a big speech from him the other day...'Iran will not get nuclear power.'

[sfam]

131. Would you be OK with Obama picking a woman VP other than Hillary?

I say this because I've been fairly shocked that so many "feminists" seem to buy into the notion that if Obama picks a woman other than Hillary, that he is somehow trashing her and her supporters.

If this isn't a discriminatory, incredibly limiting thought to women, I don't know what is. There can be only ONE...

[cap]

177. I have been with Obama for a while and will remain with him period.

again, this thread isnt about refighting the primary, it's about the day after.

[SeaLyons]

138. Oh boy, the treatment of Hillary from the media, and

particularly by MSNBC, has been the shame of all democrats. It's been going on throughout this primary. Hillary and her supporters have been appalled, offended and hurt throughout this campaign by the media. Obama supporters stood by and cheered MSNBC for their nightly attacks and sarcastic remarks against Hillary, and it is one of the prime reasons that our party became so divided.

Let it be a lesson for the future. Let it never be tolerated again.

[Seabiscuit]

139. You must be very young to only now be waking up to the pervasiveness of sexism.

[NashVegas]

153. Or Maybe Just

Trying to throw some bones to the doggies.

"radicalized?"

[cap]

174. I am radicalized...

I am ready to start donating money and time to any serious effort to reinstate the ERA and I am looking at other areas to commit to. I am thinking about how to stand up and start talking about this in my personal life. I am thinking about how to change my workplace.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

173. Or very oblivious.

Back when "ordinary" women were being bashed in the media they didn't notice it. It took Hillary Clinton's candidacy to come along for them to realize "OMG! There's sexism and misogyny in the media!! You don't say!!" I just look at them like "Where the HELL have you been?"

[cap]

175. I am almost 50 years old...

I have just been very quiet all these years and have chosen to use the ballot box to try and change things. I can not be quiet any longer...it's just that things seemed to have gotten better in the 80's and then, slowly and quietly, they began to regress in the 90's, and GW has thrown us back into the stone age. Just using the ballot box is not working.

[Zhade]

154. Although clinton did not lose due to sexism (her lies damaged her far more), I applaud any move...

...that brings more female representation in government.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

160. Welcome aboard. I've been radical-ized for decades.

Just do me a favor, okay? Try to remember how radical you are when women who are not at Hillary Clinton's level are being put down and marginalized. Like the ones who are routinely trashed on this board. Examples include, but are not limited to, "the Obama Girl", the prostitute involved in the Spitzer case, women who are in sex work, poor women, single moms, women who make choices you don't approve of, rape victims (even the ones who drank too much or wore revealing clothing) etc. I'm not being snarky or accusing you or anything in particular, I just don't want this newfound feminist conciousness to be confined to "elite" women. Thanks.

[cap]

176. yup... you are right...

it is more than just Hillary... it's everything. I just had a real hard think about where we as women are and I don't think we are in a good place at all. This video just made a lot of feelings rise to the surface on a multiplicity of levels.

[quaker bill]

162. Speaking of politics / feminism

as I recall, the equal rights ammendment is just lying out there short a few states for ratification....

Of course this has little to do with Barack Obama, but turning a few targeted state legislatures could complete the job.

A little farther up the chain of command, a federal law to secure a woman's free and unhindered right to access reproductive services nationwide could be passed and signed into law. It is far better than leaving the whole issue hang on Scalia's vote.

To expand in diversity, anti-discrimination and hate crimes legistlation toward couples regardless of gender orientation would be a good thing.

All we need to get a good number of overdue things done, is 60 reliable votes in the Senate. If not in 2008, this could be reached by 2010.

It would be good for Barack to speak on issues of sexism and wage disparity, it would be better yet to get enough repugs out of the way so something could be done.

[cap]

178. funding abortion clinics in every county of the US...

making defacto abolition of abortion illegal.

[JoFerret]

164. Without a doubt we have work to do

Misogyny is rampant - on DU and elsewhere

[otohara]

169. Media Was Shameful

I'm an Obama supporter who also thinks the media was outrageous. Worst offenders, Chris Matthews, Pat Buchanan, Fox ass wipes that Jon Stewart highlighted, Joe S.,

[Independent-Voter]

180. I rather him concentrate on getting the BEST people in leadership roles , regardless of gender

But then again, I also think that genitalia shouldn't be an issue when hiring people. It's a simple concept, but it's worked well for me.

[cap]

183. it has not worked well for my fellow Ivy League alumnae

[Mass]

181. Happy to see that people realize that now. Better now than never.

The media have been over the top with every single Democrat who had a chance to win the WH: Gore, Dean, Kerry. They are now with Hillary, just adapting the ways they do it to the person. And they will do the same for Obama now.

If people would start to see that for what it is and stop focusing on the attacks on THEIR candidate, may be we could have a clean media.

[cap]

184. yes... I am thinking Obama will be in for his share of race baiting, unfortunately

if we highlight what happened to Hillary and call it out, maybe the media will get sensitized to racism and ageism (I also don't like the Gramps remarks about McCain).