Hillary was going to hire Axelrod in 2000, Bill said hire Mark Penn.

[madfloridian]

According to Politico's Ben Smith

As told by John F. Harris in a fall 2000 issue of The Washington Post Magazine:

There is a popular view, which many of her advisers once endorsed, that Bill and Hillary represent two distinct poles in the Clinton Enterprise. She is the ideologue, eager to win but motivated principally by the higher cause; he is the compromiser, eager to do good but motivated principally by the imperative of victory. But it is Bill Clinton's brand of politics that is the animating force of her campaign.

Nothing illustrates this more than a tense episode early this year when she was deciding who to hire as her media adviser. The job had been all but offered, several sources say, to a veteran Chicago political consultant named David Axelrod. The president himself then weighed in with another idea: Hire Mark Penn. He was already signed on as pollster for both Hillary's campaign and the White House. Clinton believed he should take on an additional role in shaping her campaign's message.

"That was her decision," Clinton said in our conversation, acknowledging that he had been thoroughly familiar with it. "She's got the best of both worlds because (Axelrod) is working for the state party."

The significance of Penn is that he, more than any other adviser, is the architect of the president's successful effort to define and occupy the political center. Penn believes that swing voters are moved not so much by a candidate's inspiring rhetoric or compelling personal biography, but by concrete issues whose popularity is scientifically ascertained through exhaustive polling. It is a data-driven approach to politics, wonderfully suited to a president who inhales data, and over the years the smooth pol and the rumpled pollster have established a remarkable communion.

And the rest is history. Mark Penn's way just no longer works in this political climate.

[anonymous171]

1. We dodged a bullet there.

:hide:

[thewiseguy]

2. Mark Penn has been very quiet lately

[madfloridian]

6. Not that quiet...he wants to take it to convention in case more dirt on Obama arises

http://wonkette.com/400160/shocker-mark-penn-is-strongest-supporter-of-fighting-to-denver

[Hola]

28. That's not only Penn

Bill is pushing for a floor flight, he's getting Penn to do it too. Just a feeling

[jgraz]

8. He's finishing up that $1600 pile of donuts.

[Divernan]

18. Those Tuzla snipers are everywhere!!!

[EFerrari]

3. Corporate funded and poll driven. Well, now we know what happens when

you don't take Howard Dean seriously enough.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

4. Penn was a disaster!

[CreekDog]

5. Hillary ought to kick Bill's ass for that dumb advice

and for being a doofus on the campaign trail.

[mcctatas]

10. I think there were a whole bunch of reasons why she didn't win...

but the Big Dog is one of the most spectacular screw ups of her campaign...

[CreekDog]

16. i would say Bill was a big reason why i gravitated to Edwards and Obama

after Biden dropped out. i considered voting for Hillary (seems so long ago...).

[LiberalAndProud]

7. One more thing Bill did wrong.

I'd be really really pissed of at Bill if I were Hillary.

[ProSense]

9. Good thing that didn't happen. n/t

[XemaSab]

11. And we wonder why the Clintons have a reputation for not standing for anything

x(

[ampad]

12. Does anyone get the feeling

That Bill didn't want Hillary to win? I'm not trying to start a flame war this is an honest question. With him running off at the mouth, his temper and his bad advice sometimes I wonder. Now with this Axelrod issue, maybe Bill did think that Penn was the better choice.

[Divernan]

19. Classic passive agressive behavior.

The Clintons have certainly educated a lot of people about megalomania, narcissism, sociopathy, racism, and other psych problems during this primary season. The next edition of the DSM (Diagnostic Statistical Manual) should refer to the pair of them as a rare example of co-enabling narcissists.

[NanceGreggs]

13. Well, here's something you won't be hearing ...

... around the DC cocktail party circuit any time soon: "I've just thrown my hat in the ring, and need a good campaign strategist. Anybody got Mark Penn's phone number handy?"

[madfloridian]

14. Now that is exactly right.

:hi:

[gateley]

15. That's really interesting. Thanks. nt

[Raine]

17. Thank you Bill!

:rofl: :evilgrin:

[Inuca]

25. Second that n/t

[1776Forever]

20. Now that is fate!

[FarCenter]

21. Hillary's mistake was not divorcing Bill once she was in the Senate

About 1 or 2 years into her Senate career, she should have struck out on her own.

She would have won the nomination without him.

[Colobo]

24. Mmm... let's see what happens in the next few months.

[Heather MC]

33. I wonder how long before Bill gets his walking papers now?

[Doityourself]

22. Bill hasn't realized the world has changed and as such so has campaigning. He's outdated & he

hurt Hillary by being so.

[sfam]

23. We can only wonder how this campaign would have been different...

Imagine poor Barack getting stuck with a dud like Penn...ugh...

[jbnow]

35. Obama would never have hired a Penn. nt

[Danger Mouse]

26. As Chris Matthews would say: 'Ha!' Good thing...we got the better deal!

:)

[Carolina]

27. Bill's instincts worked for the 1990s

not so much in 2008.

That said, Hillary is equally culpable. She could have exercised her readiness on day one by demonstrating readiness to LEAD her own campaign.

She can't have it both ways. She wouldn't have been where she was from that inevitable get-go without Bill and having failed, can't blame Bill either.

A leader takes responsibility, good or bad!

[chieftain]

29. What poll-centric politics understates is the impact of personality

and/or events in shifting the measurable playing field. Reagan and the hostage crisis altered the politics of the '80s. Barack and the overwhelming revulsion toward Bush and Republican policies made the "experience" theme a distant second in electoral appeal to the "change" meme. Penn's occupy the center, take no risks, posture as inevitable and focus on the General Election was exactly the wrong road to take.

[madfloridian]

31. Agreed. Penn's tactic to not differ enough from your opponent

for fear of making waves and getting criticism...was not fitting for this time.

[chieftain]

32. I was thinking about your post during Hillary's speech and

it struck me how ill served she was by her strategy and strategists. Today's effort was a rhetorical and oratorical tour de force. The emphasis on the concrete rather than the significance of her campaign shackled her to the prosaic and kept her from showing the genuinely transformational person she demonstrated she could be.
BTW, this Florida Democrat is grateful to you for all you did to inform this Board of what really happened in our state.

[madfloridian]

34. She listened to the wrong people, the wrong strategists.

Their time was past, and she failed to realize it.

[TheWraith]

30. Bill's clearly a lot dumber than I thought he was.

We all knew his common sense sometimes left him, but sheesh, this is simply stupid. Penn is like the low-rent Karl Rove of politics.

[madfloridian]

36. Kick.

Before archiving.

[blm]

37. Hillary was NEVER ready to lead on day one. She was ready to be led by Penn polls on day one.

.

[madfloridian]

38. Penn's role was a disastrous one.

But then look at folks like Shrum and Carville. They just keep getting air time and they are loved and appreciated. And Begala as well.

Failure means little to the "gravy train" consultants. They just keep getting hired again and again.