Disprove this. (I can't believe we're even still discussing it)

[FlyingSquirrel]

Obama's worst showing came in West Virginia. With Edwards on the ballot and minimal campaigning by Obama vs. heavy campaigning by Hillary, Obama still got 25.67% of the popular vote there. (He got 32.93% in Florida.) So there's his basement - there is really no way anyone can claim that he would have received less than 25.67% in Michigan and expect to be taken seriously.

The following numbers are from thegreenpapers.com. They don't include the Washington State primary in which Obama gained an extra 38,368 popular votes. They don't make any kind of estimate of the numbers Obama might have actually gotten in those pesky caucus states that didn't keep track of the popular vote. They are just plain RAW NUMBERS -- with the exception of Michigan where I've taken the liberty of giving Obama 25.67% of the popular vote. That's quite a bit less than the 40.07% who voted "uncommitted", and allows for a 14.4% vote for Edwards which is in line with his numbers in other states at the same time.

Even with all these things against Obama, he still wins the so-called "popular vote" by over 13,000. Oh and just by the way, even if he only got 23.47% in Michigan he'd still have won the "popular vote".



Tell me what's wrong with my analysis. But don't tell me Obama should get zero votes in Michigan if you want to be taken seriously.

[DerekJ]

1. FS, They know. Trust me they know. em

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PBS Poll-435]

3. Obama got zero votes.

And a committee gave him delegates for good luck.

But, alas, it is over.

Why haven't you moved on to the GE?

[stillcool]

4. counting votes in an invalid election?

alas, it's over. Why haven't you moved on to the GE?

[PBS Poll-435]

6. I have.

Obama's Michigan delegates were like free samples at Sam's Club, though.

[mcctatas]

20. And Hillary's were like voting day in a banana republic...

but if you feel good about that, whatever...

[NYC_SKP]

5. I detest "move on" comments.

You know, the poster is entitled to work on these numbers and ask for constructive input.

And, there are still thousands of voters and critics winning over voter who are using bad math to make their arguments, so it's not really over until the GE is over.

Thanks very kindly, Ginny

[PBS Poll-435]

8. Well....Welcome to DU!

The author of the OP was asking for an arguement.

And there was even pre-conditions about the argument!


No thanks.

[NYC_SKP]

10. Thanks, and agree that Michigan is dead and pointless argument

But don't mind that some are pissed by the popular vote meme.

Have admired your posts, prodn2000. Thanks

[PBS Poll-435]

Thanks for the nice response.

I may have slightly been a HillBot, but I am a dyed-in-the-wool Dem.

We are going to win this year. And win big.

[MonkeyFunk]

7. no matter how you spin it

he got zero votes in Michigan. He made a political calculation to remove his name, and this is the price.

[FlyingSquirrel]

9. The only way for him to have gotten zero votes in Michigan

would have been for there to be zero 'uncommitted' votes.

Spin that.

[PBS Poll-435]

13. The only way for him to have gotten zero votes in Michigan

would have been for him to take his name off the ballot. And he did.

Spin that.

[FlyingSquirrel]

15. I'm really looking forward to June 15. Spin that

;)

I'll really love to see what becomes of you and MonkeyFunk, among others.

[PBS Poll-435]

17. Come on sweetie!

I am on-board.

I just don't see the point of the salt-in-the-wounds posts.

And MF?

She ain't going anywhere.

[MonkeyFunk]

25. well, MF's a he

but you're right, otherwise. I'm not going anywhere.

I've never trashed Obama, and it's not against the rules to like Hillary Clinton, no matter how much some assholes wish it were.

[PBS Poll-435]

27. Sorry about that!

:toast:

[MonkeyFunk]

26. What do you think will happen to me?

:shrug:

[cbc5g]

24. Shame on him for following the rules!! n/t

[smiley_glad_hands]

11. And Hill got votes in a flawed election.

[grantcart]

12. You misrepresent the pledge as being to not "campaign" when in fact it was to not "participate"

The only way to keep the pledge in Michigan to not participate is to have your name removed with everyone but Clinton and Dodd did (Kucinich misfiled the papers). In Florida the Secretary of State decides, not the candidates, whether their name will be on the ballot.

To continue to state that it was political calculation when it was carrying out the thread is disengenuous, unless you really have not yet read the pledge which is quoted below.

It is quite clear that they agreed not to participate, requiring a good faith effort to mean that you took your name off. Senator Clinton was the one making political calculation that by leaving it on that it would mean something. It does only to those who willingly disregard the meaning of "participate"




Four State Pledge Letter 2008
Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina
August 31, 2007
WHEREAS, Over a year ago, the Democratic National Committee established a
2008 nominating calendar;
WHEREAS, this calendar honors the racial, ethnic, economic and geographic
diversity of our party and our country;
WHEREAS, the DNC also honored the traditional role of retail politics early in the
nominating process, to insure that money alone will not determine our
presidential nominee;
WHEREAS, it is the desire of Presidential campaigns, the DNC, the states and
the American people to bring finality, predictability and common sense to the
nominating calendar.
THEREFORE, I _______________, Democratic Candidate for President, pledge

I shall not campaign or participate

in any state which schedules a presidential
election primary or caucus before Feb. 5, 2008, except for the states of Iowa,
Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina, as “campaigning” is defined by
rules and regulations of the DNC.
___________________________ __________

[vaberella]

14. well if you want to do that..then Hilllary got zero votes in MI because those votes weren't

supposed to count.

[OzarkDem]

16. Pretty sure the law requires it

A candidate has to have their name on the ballot or receive "write in" votes.

Since it was a Dem primary, the result was worked out behind closed doors, but technically any votes for a candidate not on the ballot shouldn't be counted.

I shudder to think of the GOP using that example against us some day.

[pansypoo53219]

18. but but but he lost

AMERICAN somoa. as somoa goes, so does america. right?

[QueenOfCalifornia]

19. Thanks for this

Squirrel.

Too bad there is a pissing contest going on in this thread. Your post is good and I recommended it.

:kick:

[FlyingSquirrel]

21. Well screw it. I am nearly 100% positive that this meme will die on June 11

at noon here on DU.

It's inflammatory, it's aimed at tearing Obama down, and above all it's untrue. So I fully expect this type of crap to be locked and if the people who are pushing it persist I expect them to eventually be choking on a pizza.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

23. I like the

"he's an empty vessel" thread -- talk about a bunch of crap. He is empty just waiting to become what the voters want.

It's like saying he is a mindless drone who does the bidding of the people with no thought of his own.

But it is a positive in the mind of the OP.

[featherman]

22. Where's Oregon?

Obama plus 108, 458