Do you remember when we said she was hurting his chances?

[mudesi]

Exhibit A:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2DECDKOFnw

The first of the (probably many) GOP attack ads starring our friend, Hillary Clinton.

This is not me being a "hater", this is legitimate criticism of her actions that have given the Republicans ammunition they otherwise wouldn't have had.

This is what we were talking about. Her refusal to concede back in March is already paying off for McCain. If you deny that GOP attack ads work, then you may be new to politics.

Isn't that ironic? For months it was the mathematically challenged Hillary loyalists who accused us of being new to politics. In fact, we were the ones who were well aware of how politics works. I didn't need a crystal ball to know the above video was inevitable.

I'm not saying Obama can't handle it and I'm not saying he is going to lose thanks to Hillary Clinton. In fact, I believe he will crush John McCain in November, but that is not the point. The Republicans couldn't have made the above attack ad without Hillary Clinton's help, and for that she is to be condemned. Yes, they are going to attack him anyway, but again, that is not the point.

And if he does lose, there is no denying that she played a role. That was all we were saying for weeks and weeks when it became clear she had mathematically lost the nomination. Too many were thick headed and unwilling to understand.

But what's done is done. I'm glad the admins gave us this week to vent, because there is still a lot to be said. I certainly hope Hillary is sincere in her endorsement of Obama, and then I'd like her to go away so that he can work on beating McCain despite the handicap she needlessly gave him. It's a good thing Obama is a phenomenal campaigner and a gifted speaker and it's especially good that John McCain is pathetic.

[sandnsea]

1. This helps the Republicans hurt our candidate

We're just going to have to be better at getting our message out, that's all. You're helping them spread theirs right now. Why don't you go find a YouTube that makes fun of McCain's ridiculous attack instead.

[QC]

7. That would require him to attack a Republican,

something that I have never seen him do. Interesting, isn't it?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

8. Are you living in a vacuum? He has been attacking Mclame all this last week.

Yeah, interesting huh?

[QC]

23. Who are you talking about?

As far as I can see, the OP starts three anti-Clinton threads every day, some of them downright creepy in their obsessive and unrelenting rage, most of which eventually get locked as flamebait.

If he has started criticizing McCain, that represents a real move up for him and I am sorry to have missed it.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

28. A couple of examples...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24805581/
"But here's what I don't understand. I don't understand why John McCain would side with George Bush and oppose our plan to make college more affordable for our veterans," the Democratic presidential candidate said. "George Bush and John McCain may think our plan is too generous. I could not disagree more."

Obama's criticism renews a clash that turned personal after the Senate approved the scholarship bill Thursday."

By Scott Martelle, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
May 28, 2008 http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-dems28-2008may28,0,6493791.story
NORTH LAS VEGAS, NEV. -- Barack Obama criticized Republican rival John McCain on two tracks Tuesday, linking him to the policies of the Bush administration and deriding his economic proposals as proof that he is "out of touch with the struggles of working people."

[QC]

29. OK--here's the confusion.

I was talking about the original poster of this thread.

You were talking about Obama, who has done a very nice job of going after McCain this week.

I wish our lovely and talented OP would take a cue from Obama, who is a gentleman and a skilled campaigner.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

33. My mistake. Please accept my apologies.

Still walking on eggshells waiting for the party to coalesce.

[QC]

41. No problem! n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

16. good point

far too many people here are under the mistaken impression that this board is a place to trash Democrats. I wish Skinner would set them straight.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

21. Oh the irony. The master wielder of the "they" label denigrating all Obama supporters.

Are those not Democrats?

[smiley_glad_hands]

54. LOL.

[roguevalley]

55. there is a hillary supporters for John McCain website now.

http://hcsfjm.com/

They are raising money for McCain and decrying Obama, saying they will work to get him defeated. Amazing.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

2. you left out of your indignant post the part about Edwards &Biden doing the same in this video

it's called a PRIMARY

[HCE SuiGeneris]

3. Don't forget the "ELITIST" label that she applied as well. You will hear this non-stop from the M$M.

[Mike L]

14. Do you mean FAUX? The MSM kissed BO's ass and ignored HRC.

The SNL skit was realistic. Why would the MSM turn on BO now?

[jgraz]

18. More sad fantasy

A Pew research study shows that coverage of Clinton and Obama was almost "identical".

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6565086.html

She lost by running a shitty, race-baiting campaign. Deal with it.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

31. Don't know what that poster said,..

But I am sure you handled whatever BS was slung with your usual aplomb. :hi:

[jgraz]

35. He was pushing the tired bullshit about how the MSM luuuvs Obama and hates Hillary.

[Mike L]

36. That's BS. After Iowa every morning show had BO on three times longer than HRC. em

[jgraz]

38. So your personal tv experience is more valid than a comprehensive study

from an impeccable research firm.

I don't know why I expected anything else from you. :eyes:

[bigbrother05]

59. You mean the study that shows MSNBC having the highest positive HRC comments?

[jgraz]

60. Yes, it's called "evidence".

[merh]

48. Here you go, these articles ought to help you realize how mistaken

you are.

http://mediamatters.org/index

http://mediamatters.org/items/200806050010?f=h_top

http://mediamatters.org/items/200806050009?f=h_top

http://mediamatters.org/items/200806050003?f=h_top

Of course, it will take having an open mind and I don't think that is possible for you right now.

[Shae]

57. Yeah . . .

I really thought the MSM should have brought up Jeramiah Wright's comments. Maybe tried to connect Obama to them.
:sarcasm:

[JVS]

4. After the GE we should revisit these issues

[Captain Hilts]

10. Re-education camps? It's POLITICS! Biden, Edwards, Richardson, etc. all go too. nt

[papapi]

5. Singing mostly to the choir, I hope, but thanks. The obvious is should be more obvious.

[sfam]

6. Yes, but...that's in the past now...The question is what do we do about it...

Hillary has a big part in addressing this. But truly, if you think this is the first primary where competitors said nasty and hurtful things to one another, I beg to differ. Just imagine if Tsongas won - Bill said some pretty rough things about him.

In retrospect, considering Tsongas got a recurrence cancer shortly thereafter, we can be very happy Bill took him out.

Bottom line, yeah, nasty things were said. Lets fix their impact.

[mzmolly]

9. Obama says the process strengthened him, I agree. He's gotten through

some of his most difficult political moments already because of this campaign.

[noiretextatique]

11. clinton will not go away

obama won the popular wote by @150,000 votes. that means 17 million or so people voted for clinton. obama is smart enough to know that.

[AlinPA]

12. I hoping she makes up for it by helping us take some more states and

some house & senate seats.

[Mezzo]

13. The you should have supported her since you think he can't weather this.

[jgraz]

15. Whaddya mean "WAS" hurting our chances?

She continues to hurt our chances until she fully and unconditionally endorses Obama (which, I believe, will never happen).

This current VP bullshit is just the latest phase of the 2012 strategy.

[me b zola]

30. Yep. There's been 2 to 1 (at least) coverage of Clinton today

to Obama vs McCain. She plans on drawing this out to keep the news coverage about her, not about Obama. What a piece of work.

And how do you put the toothpaste back in the tube? She can weakly say "I support Obama". Well, goody. But how about all of those rabid idiots who believed all of the race baiting, the intonations of Obama as an elitist who doesn't understand "hardworking white people" and other crappy talking points that painted Obama as trying to oppress women? How does that get reversed?

[Kokonoe]

50. She knows the VP spot was blown with the kitchen sink

And her surrogates are still using it as a wedge issue right now,

[jgraz]

52. Her surrogates are not acting without her approval.

[LisaM]

17. Her refusal to concede in MARCH?

I'm beginning to think that you don't think anyone had the right to run against Obama in the primaries at all.

[QC]

20. Apparently, everyone else was supposed to drop out the day he announced.

Weird, isn't it?

[LisaM]

22. Yep!

How dare they run?

[jgraz]

32. No, people were supposed to drop out when it was no longer possible for them to win

Just like all the male candidates did.

I guess Hillary just needed more time to get her fragile female emotions together.

:eyes:

[BeatleBoot]

39. And yet the "inexperienced" argument still stands...

hmmmm...

Maybe she was right.

And Joe Biden was right.

And John Edwards was right.

When will Obama (and some supporters) stop looking for scapegoats and be a man and address the issues?

Because taking personal responsibility will be a key factor for independents to vote Dem.

[jgraz]

43. "be a man and address the issues"??? More feminist ideals from the Hillary crowd

Lemme tell you something: If Hillary was a man, she'd have had her proverbial nuts ripped off in the media for continuing this three month crying jag over her failed candidacy.

The only reason Hillary hasn't been drop-kicked out of the party is that she's behaved EXACTLY THE WAY SEXISTS EXPECT A WOMAN TO BEHAVE -- weak, whining and refusing to accept rational arguments. Her pathetic shitpile of a campaign has set women's issues back 25 years.

[BeatleBoot]

46. Earth to jgraz...Earth to jgraz...

Obama is the nominee.

Focus your energy on McCain, now.

All of your energy against McCain. He's the opponent.

Your hatred of Hillary rivals the right wing.

And, personally, I can't hate THAT much.

[jgraz]

51. yes, you tell Obama to "be a man" and then accuse me of hatred

Seriously, if you are actually trying to be a parody of yourself, you're going a bit over-the-top.

[noiretextatique]

47. YES

it is really weird. i can't tell you how many arugments i've had with friends about this primary, mainly because i don't "believe in" obama...whatever that means. i will vote for him, but i don't have to be in love with him to do that.

[QC]

49. It's strange. For some people it's not enough that you will vote for him.

You have to, as you say, "believe in him." There's something very off-putting about that for me, like that thread claiming that Obama is a "lightworker." Did you see that? I just want a president, not a bodhisattva.

[noiretextatique]

53. LOL...yes I saw that, and I live in Oakland, CA

:rofl: so there's a lot of that going around. and unfortunately, i think we will be seeing a lot more of that in the coming months. like you, i really don't feel comfortable with the "believing in" thing...it's kinda creepy, actually.

[QC]

56. After I read that thread, I had to get my crystal and recenter myself, lol.

You are right--we are going to hear a lot of bizarre things before all this is over.

[mudesi]

25. Yes. March.

After his string of victories and her losing Texas and not winning Ohio with a large enough margin. March 4th, to be exact. He clinched it mathematically after Wisconsin, technically. That was February 19th.

[sampsonblk]

37. Yes, MARCH

You know, like as soon it was clear she had no chance to win. Like everyone else did.

[bunnies]

19. "Obama had a speech in 2000 and 2"

Now she wants to be on the ticket. Gimme a break. :eyes:

[BzaDem]

24. I wonder if there will be a week to vent after November 4th. n/t

[BeatleBoot]

26. Joe Biden and John Edwards agreed with her. You hate them too?

This wouldn't be the first time a political party put out an ad from their opponent's primary race.

So, what's your point? That she was trying to win the primary?

She isn't hurting Obama's chances. Obama is.

And he's going to have to address the "inexperienced" argument.

But I recognized that a long time ago.

[Mezzo]

27. ammunition they otherwise wouldn't have HAD? Bullshit. Spend a week in dc, there are few secrets.

[lumberjack_jeff]

34. Criticisms during the primary are bound to be sound bites for the general.

That's just the way it is.

You really should get over it, and look to the general election. Posts like this give the impression of rationalizing/establishing blame for an expected loss.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeatleBoot]

42. Bingo! And that's the Bottom Line!

Excellent post.

[bvar22]

44. I cringed the night she endorsed McCain,

and now that will be thrown in our faces until November.
Thanks, Hillary.

[tandot]

45. Oh please. There are plenty of videos on youtube with Republican candidates dissing McCain

If they use what Democratic primary candidates say about each other, the Democrats should just do the same with all the negative comments Romney, Giuliani, Huckabee, and all the others made about McCain.

It was a PRIMARY and candidates running against each other say negative stuff about each other.

This is an utterly stupid argument. Clinton is supporting and endorsing him. If you think that Republicans can beat him with stupid shit like that, it shows that you are not overly confident about him.

[apocalypsehow]

58. Your observations are spot-on. And, regarding this part of your OP:

"I certainly hope Hillary is sincere in her endorsement of Obama"

She really, really, really, really did her reputation a serious disservice this past Tuesday with her smarmy refusal to show a particle of graciousness or class with her speech. She deliberately sent Terry Dumbass out there to introduce her as "the next President of the United States," full well knowing the thumb in the victor's eye she was trying to pull off.

It didn't work - and, in fact, revolted decent people everywhere. Tomorrow she needs to try and redeem what little she can of her tatterdemalion reputation, and unambiguously endorse Senator Obama without the slightest attempt at cute "yeah, BUT..." games.

If she doesn't, her already rancid place in this period of American history will only be written worse than it currently will be years hence.

K & R. :thumbsup: