Jim Webb for Vice?

[madeline_con]

Was Obama talking up Jim Webb http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Webb just because he was in VA, or is there more to it? I did'nt catch the entire speech.

[mikelgb]

1. no

[Cant trust em]

2. Listening to Rachel Maddow yesterday, she had a segment on a paper written by Webb

which details why women can't fight in the miliary. I don't think that Webb would be the best choice if mollifying Clinton's base of women is a goal.

[11 Bravo]

6. You're talking about an article Jim wrote nearly 3 decades ago, when

he was not far removed from the crucible of VietNam where he earned the Silver Star, a couple of Purple Hearts, and the Navy Cross (and the only reason his Navy Cross wasn't the Congressional Medal of Honor is that he survived his wounds).
Jim's views have clearly evolved since the 70's, and during his stint as Secretary of the Navy he oversaw the opening up of an unprecedented number of military billets for women.
I'll admit to a bias as I've known Jim for about 30 years, and find him to be one of the most decent and honorable men I have ever met.

[cbc5g]

8. The ERA failed mostly because women didn't want to be drafted. It's not a big issue

I don't think what he wrote 3 decades ago about women in the military is a big issue, especially since hes apologized for it.

[MonkeyFunk]

9. huh?

No, one doesn't have to die to get a Medal of Honor.

[11 Bravo]

13. I am well aware of that. Jim's son told me that Jim's CO told him that after originally ...

putting Jim in for the CMH he was told later that it had been reduced to a Navy Cross but had Jim passed away he almost certainly would have received a posthumous CMH. Sorry, I wasn't real clear on that. There are several living holders of the Congressional Medal of Honor.

[MonkeyFunk]

19. Yes

I knew one when I was a kid. That's why I commented, but I see what you meant to say. No worries!

[Zomby Woof]

14. He's not saying death is required

He is saying that in his specific case, death may have been the deciding factor between medals. That is common when distinguishing which honor to give.

Just in today's obits was WW2 veteran Jack Lucas, the youngest marine ever granted the Medal of Honor, at the age of 17. At Iwo Jima, to save his buddies' lives, he fell on two grenades, and tried to bury both in the sand. One exploded, causing him such severe injuries that he needed 20 operations and nearly died. The severity of his injuries was the deciding factor. It's likely that Webb was not quite as severely injured, and therefore was granted the Navy Cross instead of the Medal of Honor.

[Zomby Woof]

10. He does strike me as a man of integrity

I was impressed by his new book "A Time To Fight", which illuminates much about his character and values. What I like is that even where I disagree with him, it's a respectful, honest disagreement, which allows me to reconsider my views and examine them much more closely. I don't want to read or listen to someone who merely parrots my views and automatically reinforces them. Sure, he definitely resonates with me much more than not, but like a good professor, I feel like I could learn from him in areas where we differ.

It's sad that Maddow has to dig back 29 years and imply his views stated then are set in stone, immutable, or contemporary. But I never found her or any of the radio talking heads (left or right) to be people of integrity or good sense. They are about ratings and pot-stirring, not discussion or debate.

[bain_sidhe]

12. It's NOT just "29 years ago"

He has continued his opposition to women in combat posts, which greatly reduces their chance for promotion. He has continued to assert that women should not be allowed in elite military academies

I don't have time to go into all the details, so here's a link to a woman who did:

http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/05/ixnay_on_the_ebbway.php

Picking Webb would be a giant slap in the face to a large segment of the women who backed Hillary. I can understand the logic of not going to great lengths to pander to that segment (makes Obama look weak). But I can't get the logic of picking someone who'd majorly piss them off, either.

[Zomby Woof]

17. That was one of the women cherry-picked by George Allen

That came forward during the senatorial race.

Fact is, more women IN THE MILITARY, and not just outside of it, have come to his defense than not. Which shows you that this is not a cut-and-dried issue. Issues rarely are, except maybe in the absolutist world of blogs and talk radio.

His arguments, while I am not in full agreement with myself, are more complex and subtle than ascribed. I don't have military or combat experience, so I defer somewhat to those who do when it comes to making judgements like he did. 29 years ago, especially.

VP or not, Webb is valuable in shoring up the blue collar and rural voters in Appalachia for Obama's benefit. I want to win this goddamned thing.

What we don't need are distractions like these when there is so much at stake. The importance of WINNING speaks for itself. I can't overstate it.

[bain_sidhe]

22. "I want to win this thing"

So do I. And I don't think pissing of the most dedicated of Clinton supporters is the way to do it. Not when there are so many other choices available without that baggage. As I said, it will LOOK like a giant slap in the face to those women, and I must confess, to me. Even though the only time I supported Clinton for the nomination was the last 24 hours, and that was symbolic, as a woman and a feminist.

Besides which, Webb is a loose cannon. Who knows what gaffes he might make that could sink Obama?

[Skwmom]

24. As a woman, I'm so sick of the phony sexism charges.

It only serves to hurt the advancement of women.

[Cant trust em]

16. I don't doubt that he's a fantastic person, or that his views have changed

but I think that if we've learned anything in politics, it's that the media will latch on to something and tell their side and no explanation from a democrat will stop that. I'm worried that this will get used against us unfairly.

[woolldog]

7. That was over 20 years ago.

So he thought women wouldn't make good combat troops. So what? At the time most people thought that. Nobody will care about this issue.

[cbc5g]

3. I think what he is saying is "Jim Webb is in my top 3"

I really think he will pick someone from VA because Obama has a really good chance of carrying Virginia. And if Virginia goes Obama, which hasn't happened since 1964, then Obama will clearly win the Presidency as Ohio and Pennsylvania and even NC may fall in the Obama category.

[gateley]

4. I've heard there might be

some womens' rights snags. For example, he apparently said that women weren't fit for combat, that the military academies shouldn't allow women to enroll - thing along those lines. I DON'T HAVE A LINK -- Rachel was mentioning this yesterday. His statements sound like they're a response to a women in the military question. He's since apologized (of course).

I'm not sure whether or not Obama's campaign would want to deal with this issue being brought up -- and we know it would be.

I like a lot about Webb, and was surprised to hear this. I tend to think people I like think EXACTLY as I do. :7

[tazkcmo]

5. No

Has some positives but too many Rethug views/ties.

[Shakespeare]

11. I really hope so. n/t

[WA98296]

15. Between that paper, three marriages, and questions around temperament, I'm not so sure.

[Zomby Woof]

18. All those pale...

Compared to Senator Quasimodo McWarboner:

[Kceres]

20. Does anyone know where Webb stands on choice?

This would be most important for a VP.

[cbc5g]

21. He's pro-choice n/t

[Skwmom]

23. I really like him.

I saw his one speech (maybe a reply to the State of the Union) and it was great. He seems like a good guy and authentic. I worry about charges of sexism since Clinton has raised that issue but if team Obama thinks it won't be a problem I think he'd be a great choice.

[ladjf]

25. It would be a mistake to trust an ex-Republican.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MiniMe]

27. Webb was a republican, I don't think he switched until this god-awful *administration

And I know that paper he wrote was in the 70's, but it would not do a thing to bring the Hillary voters into the fold. I like Webb a lot, and I never thought he was a neocon. But I don't think he is the best choice, especially when we may finally have 2 dem senators from Virginia.

[Sparkly]

28. No.

Webb is perfect right where he is.