The "Hill-Haters" meme

[ExPatLeftist]

On Tuesday, Hillary Clinton strung together a series of actions and words that greatly offended me as an American and a Democrat.

But this belligerent and divisive end (?) to her campaign was just the last in what I would regard as a generally despicable (in addition to poorly-run) campaign.

The above statements are, obviously, opinion. Perhaps some (or many) of you disagree with them. That is to be expected as we all have our own opinions. No one can tell me that "she did nothing wrong" any more than anyone can tell me how I "should" feel. Those are personal matters decided in each one of us individually.

What is ridiculous, however, is that some people here and in the big wide real world want to paint those that have major issues with some of her words and tactics as simply, "haters". To me, that term is inherently RIGHT WING, as it tries to turn things into a black-or-white, "with us or against us" reality, which we all know does not exist. It implies that people cannot simply have an issue with someone and voice that - they must simply hate the person. It is illogical and extremely childish.

The biggest parallel that I see is the right's insistence on labeling everyone that calls Bush to task for his MANY horrors by laughing and saying, "Oh, you're just another Bush-hater!" No, the fact is that I have genuine and legitimate issues with the words and actions of Bush. I am sure that many of you here - that supported all Democratic candidates - have heard that one before. How did it make you feel? What did you think about the person saying it? Did you think it was logical? Personally, I see it as patronizing, immature and used as a shield - so that they do not have to discuss the issues themselves. Why in the world would people adopt that same preschool thinking in our Democratic Party?

Similarly, I have issues with Hillary Clinton and how she has run this campaign. I used to respect and admire her, and will always have a place in my heart for Bill. But this campaign, IMO was beyond acceptable and epitomizes that which I do NOT want the Democratic party to be. If you disagree with me on those issues, I am more than willing to discuss them. But just because you disagree with them does not mean that they are any less real to me (and millions of others, I might add) and it does not mean that I can simply be labeled a "Hill-hater" and dismissed.

The Democratic Party is full of a great variety of people with a great variety of opinions on many issues, unlike the mindless sheep that follow Republican shepherds. We should not allow it to devolve into a party where overly simplistic labels can be used to disregard the views of ANY of our members.

[Enrique]

1. there's legitimate criticism of Hillary

and then there's hatred.

Yes, the legitimate criticism is not hatred.

But the hatred is hatred.

[jasmine621]

3. And we all know the difference when we hear it. nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

63. No, you don't, actually. nt

[papau]

9. Agree - the hatred is hatred - no matter how DU's Obama fans try to excuse themselves

[Lerkfish]

28. I will agree that you're an expert on hatred.

[emilyg]

82. Coming from you?

[Forkboy]

56. You need to invest in a mirror.

[mkultra]

57. your an Obama hater

:)

[leftofcool]

2. If someone posts "I hate her" or "I hate that B&^%$" (lots of those posts)

then I think it is safe to assume they mean it, thus "Hillary Haters" makes perfect sense

[ExPatLeftist]

5. It applies to those that say they hate her.

Not all that oppose her and her tactics.

People are accused of being "Hill-Haters" for any word against her.

[leftofcool]

13. I agree with that

[hfojvt]

52. I don't think those that hate her should be dismissed either

The fact is that many of us are and have been Bush haters, but the key to the right wing is that they insist that the hatred is illogical. It's illogical to hate somebody who lies and enacts tax policies designed to benefit the wealthy? It's illogical to hate somebody who lies us into a war? WTF?

Hillary haters have been more than willing to explain the 50 ways they hate her and open that up to scrutiny where people can argue whether it is justified in this instance or not.

I feel like I have spent months chasing down Hillary supporters who I have known for a while on DU and once considered to be compassionate and scholarly. Yet time and time again they fail to explain either why they like Clinton or why I should.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6297213&mesg_id=6299047

In sum, the Hillary haters typically seem more rational to me than the Hillary lovers.

[Raineyb]

77. And when someone points out behavior that they consider abhorrent

They're still labeled as a "hater."

How are we supposed to correct what's gone wrong in this primary season when you that happens?

Regards

[MonkeyFunk]

4. There's plenty of hate here

it's been as bad as Freerepublic for months now, and I don't give a fuck how often you guys deny it. It's readily apparent to anybody with eyes.

It's still going on today - fuck the hate and fuck the haters.

[ExPatLeftist]

7. "I am just going to label you all and I don't give a fuck!!!"

Did you put your fingers in your ears and close your eyes and hum after you typed that? Because you sound like a teenager.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ExPatLeftist]

16. Irony in spades.

The pure irony (on many levels) of your own post just flew straight over your head, I am sure, Monkey.

Sad.

[Lerkfish]

31. Thank you mf for an excellent example of the OP's point.

may I make a humble suggestion? why don't you take a week off, drink some beers, relax, and then come back ready to support the nominee.

if you're not ready in a week, don't come back.

[Lerkfish]

30. I wrote a poem called HUBRIS

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6300937&mesg_id=6300937

you would do well to read it, and maybe learn something

[galloglas]

61. Miss Andry, 2008 ??

It seems that most of the venom spewed by Hillary supporters has alleged sexism and misogyny by anyone who opposes Clinton. FonkeyMunk knows, don't she?

But, as she says, "you guys deny it" (which seems sexist to me!). To which she adds, "It's still going on today - fuck the hate and fuck the haters."

And, of course, all those "Haters" are male, we are left to presume, due to the first quote, "you guys deny it".

Perhaps it is time we all examine another word. One that has been demonstrated constantly on these boards: misandry. Find references below.

And you, FonkeyMunk, after reading your loverly gutter mutterings for weeks, do hereby nominate you for a title: Miss Andry, 2008


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misandry

http://www.123exp-health.com/t/01084062197/

http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutwords/misogynist

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/misandry

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=misandrist

http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/misandry_is_the_message/

and this up-to-date account from Academia

http://mqup.mcgill.ca/book.php?bookid=1323

perhaps males here at DU feel some an eerie familiarity in this YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qodygTkTUYM&feature=related

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bvar22]

67. ROFL !

"We have met the enemy, and..."

[The Magistrate]

6. To Pretend, Sir, There Are Not Some On The Left Who Simply Hate Sen, Clinton Is Pointless

It is a cold fact, plainly evident for years.

[ExPatLeftist]

8. Did I say that there are none that hate her?

Nope. Don't put words into my mouth.


The point is that the "Hill-Hater" label is often used against ANYONE that criticizes her. I find that to be an adoption of imbecilic RW tactics.

[papau]

11. label is often used " also is applied to those who distrust/dislike Obama and are called "racist"

[hokies4ever]

that's a meme pushed by Hillary's camp

for example, Geraldine Ferraro crying 'reverse racism' just because people thought that some of her comments were stupid.

[ExPatLeftist]

18. And? Does that change the fact that neither is right?

Can you keep on topic or does it have to be, "Well, look at HIM!!!"?

That's a logical fallacy.

[RaleighNCDUer]

64. If those who "distrust/dislike Obama" can offer no rational explanation

of their distrust or dislike, what are we left with?

[Raineyb]

78. I'd like an answer to that too

Because I've yet to get one when I make the same point.

Regards

[hokies4ever]

12. Agreed. Kind of like people accusing others of using the race card

without addressing their specific grievance. It's a way to demean them and their argument without addressing the merits of it.

[baldguy]

15. As it is pointless to pretend there are not some who simply hate Sen Obama.

But Sen Obama is our nominee, and those that truly believe in & wish to honor everything Sen Clinton has worked for will vote for him in November.

[The Magistrate]

34. Members Of This Forum, Sir, Will Certainly Support The Nominee Of The Party

The period for venting and gaining calm and acceptance of defeat in the primary closes on Wednesday next.

[ExPatLeftist]

39. So do you speak for all members of this forum? n/t

[The Magistrate]

47. I Am A Moderator, Sir, And In This Simply State The Rules Of The Place

The rules of Democratic Underground require support for Democratic candidates for office, and restrict criticism of Democrats to constructive criticism, forbidding divisive and imflammatory attacks on Democrats. During the primary season, the former element has not applied, and in a contest between Democrats, enforcement of the latter element has been necessarily relaxed. Starting at noon Eastern Time next Wednesday, both will be in full force, as usual. One way or another, members of the forum will support the nominee, and there will be an end to imflammatory and divisive attacks on Democrats.

[ExPatLeftist]

50. OK. Misunderstood your point. n/t

[The Magistrate]

53. No Problem, Sir

I am taking what opportunities present themselves in the threads I see to remind people that things will be going back to normal soon, and some behaviors will have to change on both sides. We do not want to have to take any actions against members that can be avoided.

[ExPatLeftist]

54. Thanks for that and sorry for the misunderstanding.

I do not envy you guys as moderators these days... ;)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. Many on the left don't "hate" the Clintons but loathe what they stand for.

They are representative of, and have made an art of, pandering to the right and calling it "progress".

The left/right divide in the Democratic Party, and the country, has been around since the inception of both.

Throwing the usual band-aid over it at election time is as ridiculous as it is futile.

[LisaM]

17. There was a thread, HERE, yesterday, called "I Still Hate Her"

Or maybe it was just "I Hate Her".


I know there are plenty of people who supported Hillary who have issues with Barack Obama, don't like his style, his personality, feel for various reasons that she is better qualified, but I have never once seen a thread here that was titled "I hate him". (Of course, I probably haven't seen every single thread, but I certainly don't remember it).

And we get till noon Wednesday to get it all out of our systems and I STILL haven't seen a thread where someone specifically says they hate him. I'm not a huge fan, obviously, and I hate the way that I perceived he ran HIS campaign, but I've never stated that I personally hate him.

Unfortunately, we have been trained for 16 years now to hate Hillary Clinton. Even people who like Bill say that they hate her. As time passes, the reasons that people hate Hillary, or say they do, will be carefully examined and I look forward to that scrutiny because I think it will tell people a lot about themselves. It also will reinforce something that has been a part of our national fabric back to colonial America and the Puritans (imported from Europe) where older women with property and power are resented and characterized as villains, monsters, or worse. I'm sure that many of us need only look around our own workplaces to see some evidence of this. We like the more grandmotherly type of person who is in a non-threatening position, but resent the more powerful women.

She was an easy target because we have been preconditioned through a long history to dislike anyone in her position. One thing that is really striking to me is that she is, in a sense, a "widow" - that is, Bill was president, but of course, after 8 years, had to give up power. She assumed the role in their family of holding a position with some power, and then advancing towards the possibility of holidng more. Widows who assume control of their husband's property have historically been a target of resentment and fear.

[ExPatLeftist]

20. There are those that hate her and post it - but that does not mean

that all against her are "haters". Pointing to a single thread as evidence of anything is, IMO, just plain silly.

The "trained to hate her" argument is something that I can see on the right, but has not affected me in the leas. In fact, right after Edwards dropped out I supported Hillary Clinton for a short while until I saw some tactics that repulsed me. That has grown through the race and reached its (hopeful) climax on Tuesday night.

[LisaM]

22. I don't know that I can be so sure that the longtime rightist slurs on Hillary

haven't had an effect. A friend of mine who loves Bill but supported Obama (could never give me a policy reason, though) snapped at me one day, "she's a bitch!" She immediately apologized, but couldn't even give me a reason why she said it. It just popped out of her mouth. And this was a LONG time ago, early last fall. It is just (IMO) something people are used to saying.

[ExPatLeftist]

25. Well, I cannot speak for anyone else

But for myself they have had no effect except maybe an OPPOSITE effect as I hate talking points and hive-mind-think, and am rebellious toward anything that smacks of that. In fact, I think the constant attacks on BOTH of them made me like them all the more. (I hope that you were not trying to tell me what has effected ME, as we do not even know each other... ;))

What HAS effected me is Hillary's campaign and tactics and some of the things she has said, which I view as reprehensible. As I said in the OP, you may or may not agree that I "should" feel that way, but I feel it nonetheless. And it has nothing to do with all the BS talking points over the last 16 years - it has to do with the last 3 months or so.

[EFerrari]

27. It should be some consolation that most rational people know

when an attempt is made to manipulate them, i.e., in the right wing media. So while there is undoubtedly a group of people who do buy in to the bs about the Clintons, there is a far larger group that doesn't.

And, you may not remember this, but a lot of us pushed back with emails and calls and faxes when she was being obviously mistreated in that media this time around -- whether we supported her campaign or not.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

42. It's that.

I mean that is it.What you described in that particular case scenario is not just something that is sensed ,it is felt in a most unsettling way.
In November when the people as a whole speak I think there will be a most powerful sense of something that has never before happened.

The way the entire democratic campaign was handled is much different that ever before. Bringing voters in to register is a very good thing but the surrounding controversy presents a greater problem.

What you speak of is a matter of Gestalt,only a therapist can help a person reach down into the roots of such issues.There is far more in that than political differentiations ,regard to the verrying positions. Party being split may result in unrepairable damage.Parent-adult- child.
We do indeed have a problem.

Ranting may help one to vent,but do they ever reach the root of why it is they must vent? The answer is most likely no. Anything could have set her off.What is disturbing is that there is or was no reason for ,no real way to pin point just why that popped out.That is passed on to those being brought into the fold,so to speak. That kind of thing is passed on to the younger voters,the new registered voters threw various means.

It just pops out right? Imagine that like a virus.
It's not just about unity, it is also about doing some serious damage control' Cooking up anger threw fear is win at all cost or what ever it takes ,at it's very worst.It is the party itself ,because of panic and the fear of loss that is and hides the true blame. And those that have been doing the cooking,watching circumstances and events unfold ,have themselves to thank. This is not the first time. The party divided in 81,but this is far worse. The republicans are laughing at this ,saying the democratic party is notorious for such blundering mistakes.And let the record show they did it again.

[galloglas]

65. Nor can anyone be sure that

long lasting digs, slaps and kicks at Obama haven't had an effect.

Even if Hillary sincerely endorsed Obama, how many of her 18 million supporters that she (certainly seemed to) prepare for an insurgency (to shouts of "On to Denver!!") will vote for Obama ??

That, ultimately, is the question. How many of those supporters who were filled with rage at Hillary's failure to get her (entitled?) win will still vote for OBAMA, even with Hillary's endorsement.

Seems that her behavior has sure torn up a lot of fabric. Someone will have to stitch this back together (Jay-sus!! I hope I don't suffer from misandry for a reference to "sewing").

[jgraz]

32. And of course, you just read the subject line and assumed you knew the content

That post was about her actions over the last three months -- and the well-deserved righteous outrage that they engendered.

I really hope, for your sake, that you someday understand the real reason for the so-called "hatred" against Hillary. In true feminist fashion, she was judged on her ACTIONS and her ABILITIES and found wanting. In fact, she was treated FAR better than any man would be treated in the same situation. (Seriously, imagine, just for a second, a MAN losing a primary and needing to take a few days to emotionally come to grips with the fact that he lost).

Instead, you insult every poster on this board with your insinuation that we've all been duped by the Right-Wing Anti-Clinton Noise Machine. It may surprise you (though is shouldn't), but most of us spent the 90's DEFENDING Hillary and Bill. Even those of us who didn't like their DLC politics jumped in and fought against the right-wing bullshit.

But still, that wasn't enough for you. We now have to swallow her MLK comments, Bill's Jesse Jackson dismissal, her Rezko allegations, the canned Xerox lines, her pathological Tuzla stories, her sarcastic "The Skies Will Open" snark, her praise of John McCain, her racist "Appalachian Strategy", her popular vote lies, her refusal to concede and her insinuation that somebody might just want to assassinate Obama. And if we don't, we're STILL slavering sexists in your eyes.

Can you not read that list, take a step back and understand the people of good faith may have a problem with the way she ran her campaign? Can you not take off the victim-colored glasses for one second and see that our real objection is to a power-hungry pol who would take down the party if it meant that she would gain the office she sought?

There has been post after post in the past week asking us to "try to understand" how the Clinton supporters feel. Can you, for just one moment, attempt to understand how the Obama supporters must feel after witnessing month after month of the Clintons' "kitchen sink strategy"??

If there is any hatred, it's not directed at a person. It's directed at her tactics and the discredited "third-way" triangulation that she represents. I hope that some day you'll be able to see that a join the new movement that's been created. If you can't, at least have the decency to not piss on those of us who are trying to make the party and the country a little bit better.

[Shae]

76. I haven't seen any threads entitled, "I hate him,".

But I didn't see the "I hate her" thread, either.

I have seen him called "thug," "crook," "asshole," "scumbag," "empty suit," "sexist pos," among other things. I didn't get the impression that the posters who made the remarks were overcome with love.

But the thing I really want to address in your post is: "Unfortunately, we have been trained for 16 years now to hate Hillary Clinton." Unless you are an aficionado of Rush Limbaugh or FOX news, I simply don't see that as being true. Most of the posts I've seen by people who criticize Hillary lead me to believe that they liked her before she entered the race, but her behavior since has changed their minds.

I liked Hillary Clinton at the beginning of 2008, and I considered voting for her. I was thrilled when she was elected to the senate in 2000. I've been surprised at some of her voting record (IWR, Kyl-Lieberman, bankruptcy, and others). I expected better of her. I do not fear strong women, and I don't resent her position of power, but during this campaign I have found her to be a fundamentally dishonest person and morally lacking. She is not someone I like much, and she's not someone I feel comfortable having in a position of power.

[EFerrari]

19. We are more used to hearing this kind of pseudo-McCarthyism

from the right and I agree that when there's no apparent rational basis for the label, it's used as a way to pre-empt discourse.

:thumbsup:

[ExPatLeftist]

21. Well put, and more succintly than I was able. Thanks :) n/t

[EFerrari]

23. It's important to notice the mechanisms of social coercion.

That's more important, to my mind, than the actual venues of that control -- "Hill haters" "Obama Haters" "Bush Haters" and so on.

The impulse is there in the culture -- one more damage for which we can thank all these years of right wing control.

[ExPatLeftist]

29. Yes, the "discussion" has changed over the last 7+ years

into a ridiculous black-and-white soundbite montage.

I blame the RW as well, as well as those that would follow their example and those that think we have to play THEIR game to "get along".

I also think that the Internet, which is a truly amazing thing overall, has played a role in this, as it is easy to go on a board somewhere and type a simple 1 sentence opinion full of expletives and regard that as "political dialog". And if others do the same, that is viewed as "normal" and "acceptable" regardless of the number of fallacies - sometimes outnumbering even the words of the post itself. Please see posts by our "simian" friend upthread for examples. ;)

[papapi]

24. I agree her campaign was a disaster and her tactics vile. . . but I don't hate her...

I just wish she would go away. Very far away.

[Lerkfish]

26. I wrote a poem about it here ya go..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6300937&mesg_id=6300937

entitled HUBRIS.

[Shae]

68. You have them so pegged!!!

[BzaDem]

33. The meme is reality on this board.

People don't mention "Hill-Haters" simply because some people have an issue with her words or campaign tactics. They mention it because of a pattern of a huge amount of disgusting vitrol against Clinton since the first day of the primary season. People who hated the Clintons (for not being as liberal as they were) before the primary, and used her campaign tactics as excuses for continuing the rage (even though they really didn't care about the tactics in the long run). Personally, I think a lot of Clinton hate is just part of a proxy fight between the wing of the party that demands ideological purity and everyone else. But that's just my opinion. Whatever the reason, the "Hill-Haters" meme is a fact (at least here). If you have any doubts, just look at this post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6292638&mesg_id=6292638

[Lerkfish]

35. perpetual self-victimhood is part of the problem.

[EFerrari]

36. That post is not what this OP is referring to. n/t

[ExPatLeftist]

38. Again, as I have said before in this thread

yes, there are those that "hate" Hillary.

That does not excuse labeling everyone that criticizes her as "Hill-Haters".

You have linked to a single thread. Please remember that that one thread represents ONE person's opinion, and not "Obama supporters".

[MethuenProgressive]

45. And with 26 recs, hate is climbing up the 'Greatest' page.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lerkfish]

59. ironic.

[eleny]

37. It reminds me of how right wingers call us Dems "America-Haters"

It sounds like it's right out of Hannity's playbook.

[ExPatLeftist]

41. Exactly. It gives people an excuse to disregard everything one says.

It is a childhood fixation on simple labels - "bad guy", "good guy". It has no place in the party of mature adults.

[Catherine Vincent]

40. You may not be a Clinton-hater but there are plenty of them here.

They know who they are.

[ExPatLeftist]

43. Yes, I am sure there are some here.

But that does not excuse others of accusing me and those with a similar view of also being "Clinton Haters". That is an attempt to invalidate everything a person says from the start.

[Catherine Vincent]

46. Well, you'll just have to deal with that.

You know in your mind that you're not a Clinton (Hillary)-hater, so all you can do is ignore them.

[EFerrari]

48. Or, you can write a clear, sensible OP like this one.

:)

[MethuenProgressive]

60. Link to the OP you refer to? (Certainly not *this* one!)

:hi:

[galloglas]

66. I think that is a misandric statement n/t

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ExPatLeftist]

55. Of course there are some that profess "hate"

But that does not mean that all or the majority of Obama supporters or those disillusioned by her own conduct, in fact "hate" her.

Nor does it mean that those that do hate her can be simply disregarded either.

[Lerkfish]

58. the danger, as I see it, of misusing the term "hillhater" when someone has a valid concern

is that it becomes a defacto censorship that unilaterally protects prohillary supporters that dont' want to encourage unity.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=passive+aggressive

. passive aggressive
46 up, 2 down
act of doing something specifically to piss someone off, but with the cover of "I didn't realize it would bother you".

[galloglas]

62. Miss Andry, 2008 ??

It seems that most of the venom spewed by Hillary supporters has alleged sexism and misogyny by anyone who opposes Clinton. FonkeyMunk knows, don't she?

But, as she says, "you guys deny it" (which seems sexist to me!). To which she adds, "It's still going on today - fuck the hate and fuck the haters."

And, of course, all those "Haters" are male, we are left to presume, due to the first quote, "you guys deny it".

Perhaps it is time we all examine another word. One that has been demonstrated constantly on these boards: misandry. Find references below.

And you, FonkeyMunk, after reading your loverly gutter mutterings for weeks, do hereby nominate you for a title: Miss Andry, 2008


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misandry

http://www.123exp-health.com/t/01084062197 /

http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutwords/m...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/misandry

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=misandri...

http://www.mercatornet.com/articles/misandry_is_the_mes... /

and this up-to-date account from Academia

http://mqup.mcgill.ca/book.php?bookid=1323

perhaps males here at DU feel some an eerie familiarity in this YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qodygTkTUYM&feature=rela...

[smiley_glad_hands]

70. She brought most of it onto herself with her tactics. eom

[StevieM]

71. Too bad...you will get no apologies and will have to suffer the indignity of listening to Barack

praise her and seek her support even as she fails to "ask for redemption."

Steve

[EFerrari]

73. There is no indignity at all in watching our gracious nominee.

:hi:

[smiley_glad_hands]

80. He will go thru the motions as any good Democrat would.

But she will not see the light of day as VP.

[apocalypsehow]

72. Excellent post. Her supporters here - most of them, anyway - are currently engaged in a species of

quasi-disruption that is two-fold: on the one hand, they are running around GD: P insisting everyone quit "hating" HRC; on the other, they continue to post divisive BS that routinely smears and slanders the presumptive Democratic nominee.

It really is quite transparent, and highly suggestive of what the more vocal of them have been about all along....

[EFerrari]

74. It doesn't work. I agree with you but it won't fly.

DU is not just a collection of strangers that can be manipulated.

There are people here that have been friends for years now, who have worked on projects together, who, even if they were on different sides of this race, value their friendship and this place.

It's annoying and it will go away. Most of us can't wait to move on as soon as we can.


:shrug:

[emilyg]

83. I don't agree with your post at all.

[mudesi]

75. I wonder if people are completely blind

Did we witness the same campaign?

There is documented video of her to justify hating her.

[ExPatLeftist]

79. That is a simple matter of opinion.

Are you honestly going to tell people how they should feel about someone? Or what "justifies" anything at all? That is for each individual to decide for him/her- self... That which "justifies" anger in my mind is not the same for you, or any other of the billions on Earth. Though I do not hate her, no person can say what is acceptable for others - we all have our own thresholds.

[davidpdx]

81. You vere eloquently stated why some have a problem

will what the Clintons have been doing. I think many people are deeply disappointed in how Hillary Clinton has handled herself with regard to the campaign. Should people be able to voice that in a constructive way without being labeled "Hillary Haters"? People have every right to their opinion, as does the OP , who did not bash her, but pointed out things that have taken place.