Were many of Hillary's 18 million 'supporters' Republicans all along?

[Avalux]

I've been wondering with all these reports of Hillary supporters offering to 'help' McCain and actions by some that are more like the GOP than Democrats.

Just doesn't make sense to me they could switch so easily from Hillary to McCain. What about Democratic principles?

[EstimatedProphet]

1. Well, I think a lot of the Hillary/Hillary supporters are freepers...

[EFerrari]

8. Not longtime DUers but a lot of the new posters sure sounded like that. n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

77. Not just newbies.

More than half my Ignore list consists of people who have been here longer than I.

They were not put on ignore because they disagreed with me, but because they were so uncompromisingly dogmatic in their anti-Obama or pro-DLC (or in one case pro-AIPAC) stances that I could hardly believe they are truly Democrats.

[Oleladylib]

9. That's absolutely not true...obviously not educated as to

the diverse thinking in the democratic party...WE are dyed in the wool dems..who believe differently..a bit more pramatic, not quite as idealistic maybe..but defend the working person's right to a life style that expresses America's acceptance of all classes..Plus ..health care and other social issues are FRONT BURNER for us..This IS NOT republican.

[EstimatedProphet]

21. Sorry

Edit: This post is entirely a mistake. I must have made it in too much of a hurry.

[WillyToad]

23. Trying to rationalize her support to fit your hatred?

Let go before it eats the other half of your brain

[EstimatedProphet]

31. Actually, no. Being cynical.

I think the attitude right now on this board is disgusting. Openly calling Clinton supporters Republican moles used to be against the rules. So I was trying to snark the OP.

[Sundoggy]

59. Ever notice how much haters like to pretend it's everyone else? n/t

Deal with your own hatred.

[BklynChick]

2. there are a substantial amount of Hillary supporters who are moderate Repubs, lots of people who

have buyers remorse and are supporting Obama (tons in NY that I know), and all the operation chaos folks.

[vaberella]

83. I'm one of them 100%. I'm independent but vote either way, depending on what they say.

However, I was totally anti-McCain. I was actually rooting Edwards when the campaign started. I knew his policies, agreed with some and he's a more conservative Dem. I'm completely liberal but I tend to be very conservative on some topics. I did like Hillary Clinton, and that's just because it's a who doesnt know the Clintons. Plus, I live in Harlem. When Edwards dropped out, I was on the fence. I supported both Hillary AND Obama equally not really aiming for either. I liked some policies of one and i like some policies of another so either way I was game. Except my logical mind said that there was no way Hillary was going to make a single damn change. Then came the Ferraro, religion "He says he is", and endorsing McCain and I totally left her and didn't suppport her. It was just one too many from her side that made me choose a side.

[ingac70]

3. I'd say about 5 mil.

They had nothing to do once McCain was coronated.

[bunkerbuster1]

80. And of the 5 mil, many of whom voted for a Dem for the first time...

Perhaps as many as half of those folks are going to stick around for the ride.

Thanks, Rush! First we re-take the Senate with your help in 2006, and now the Presidency!

[pbca]

4. Those who come around and support the nominee now

are Democrats, those that support McCain (or continue to support non-candidate HRC) are Republicans, whether they were Republican all along or just became Republican this week doesn't really matter much.

[Andy823]

5. Can't give an exact number

But I am sure there are a large number of those who are keeping the pot stirred up, that are really republicans who crossed over to cause problems. Most of her supporters will take some time, but once they really take time to know Obama, they "WILL" vote for Obama.

[Oleladylib]

6. she stands for many a lot of O's supporters could benefit from..

[Toucano]

7. In 1980 we had Reagan Democrats. In 2008 we have Clinton Republicans

I think it's clear that Hillary attracted (or attracts) Republican voters.

She's pro-business and relatively moderate.

But her heart and soul are true Democrat through and through.

Is it okay if Republicans vote for Clinton (if she had won the nomination)?

Is it okay if Republicans vote for Obama?

[ingac70]

11. I'd rather the....

corporate whore type Repubs stay home. Don't want the fouling up the Democratic Party any more than they have.

[Toucano]

15. You don't want them to vote for Obama?

If they conclude that McCain is too feeble and unreliable?

I'm happy to have them cross over and vote for Obama because we need to counter the religious fundamentalist who are more "activist" minded and single-issue oriented.

[baldguy]

28. What matters is: will they vote Dem in the fall & continue to support Dems afterward.

Both Clinton & Obama received support from individual Republicans in the primaries, but while Obama's support was genuine & solid, Clinton's support was the result of a strategic campaign to ensure a GOP victory in Nov.

[dems_rightnow]

60. Yes, it's OK if Republicans vote Democratic

There's no bonus for the "purity" of your votes.

In fact, that's how elections are won, given the close division of the electorate. Bush, Kerry, and Gore failed to pull many from the other side, resulting in 2 extremely close elections.

I firmly believe that Obama will attract a LOT of Republicans, certainly far more than McCain will of ours. And they're all welcome to check the "D" in the voting booth!

[RaleighNCDUer]

78. I've got no problem with republicans supporting either candidate.

My problem is if they lie and SAY they are Democrats as they do so.

There have always been crossover voters. This is the first time I can remember there being large numbers of 'stealth' voters who deliberately switch sides, even registrations, just to fuck with the other party.

It is fundamentally dishonest and unworthy of members of a democracy.

BTW, I feel the same way about Dems who go to the repbublicans side to fuck with them. Let them fall on their own weaknesses. In an ideological struggle it is the ideas that make the difference, and fucking with the ideas, through fraudulant voting, makes truth of the accusation that "there's no difference between them".

[hisownpetard]

10. Fortunately, since Obama's going to be our nominee, we won't have to find out the answer

to this in November.

[ccharles000]

12. I a former Hillary supporter am not a repub.

[Avalux]

17. Of course you're not.

You also haven't offered to help McCain win as some of Hillary's supporters have. :hi:

[WillyToad]

26. Some people have to rationalize their hate by smearing Hillarys democratic supporters

Why cant they just let go of it?

[RaleighNCDUer]

79. Only those who would SWITCH rather than vote for Obama.

The FUCK YOU is aimed only at them.

All real Hillary supporters are welcome.

[Skidmore]

13. Pat Buchanan has christened them the "Hillary Republicans" and claims

that they are really the "Reagan Democrats" returning. I'm inclined to think that a portion of them are disruptors. What percentage, I don't know.

[Orangepeel]

14. 18 million people are not switching from Clinton to McCain. The vast majority will switch right to O

I've voted for a lot of losing primary candidates in my time. Most of us have. Most of us move right over. Clinton supporters, in general, will too.

[JVS]

16. It doesn't matter. It's 18 million who voted, not taking a blood oath, not joining an army...

simply voting.

[SoCalDem]

74. Apple Pie vs Cherry Pie...(someone always wins in a two-person race)

during a primary..Once the candidate is chosen, the remaining primaries USUALLY get pretty lopsided, with the drop-outs getting fewer and fewer votes..

The ONLY thing different this time is that TWO stayed in , actively campaigning to the bitter end..and with TWO choices, it was inevitable that she would garner many votes along the way.. It's no mystery..

If she had been able to do math, and had she been gracious and realistic, all the states she "won" with Rush Limbaugh's help, would have been won by Obama, because she would have dropped out long ago..

If Edwards had decided to go for broke (and if Elizabeth's health had not deteriorated), we "could" have had a prolonged race between Edwards & Obama...but Edwards was smart enough to realize that Obama was the "IT" guy of this generation, and no amount of money could fight it..

[endarkenment]

18. not many

the vast majority are loyal Democratic Party voters.

[wowimthere]

19. Who voted for her? It does matter. I believe that many would have voted against her too

come the general election.

[Igel]

20. Sure, lots were.

But remember that in Texas what hurt BO was that the republican vote was more evently split between them. Before Texas, BO got far more of the repub vote than HRC. This includes Super Tuesday.

The repub vote in dem primaries increased overall as McCain got a lock on the nomination; less interesting fight over there, so they came over here. Not all were "Operation Chaos"; I ascribe much less importance and power to Limbaugh than many do, but I don't like building up my enemies into behemoths unless there's evidence they really are behemoths.

I once saw an attempt to remove all the indie and repub vote from the vote totals, and the resulting "pure dem" vote skewed sharply to HRC. Didn't look at all the assumptions, didn't strike me as an interesting exercise.

You may claim that the repubs that voted for BO are "loyal" but those who voted for HRC are "disloyal", but that claim needs some evidence. I heard the same kind of claim before Texas, that repubs were crossing over to ensure a losing candidate would confront whoever the repub nominee would be. That also needed proof, and none was ever forthcoming.

[Zynx]

22. A small minority. Maybe 10% tops.

[Hugabear]

34. Maybe a small minority, but quite a vocal minority

And we all know how just a small vocal minority can make the rest look bad.

[B Calm]

24. Many were and still are cons.

[TZ]

25. Considering how many wins she got in states

That republicans could vote in the Democratic primary..I would say, yes. I heard an estimate of about 6 million being registered Repubs.

[PeaceNikki]

27. I think that's the exception rather than the rule.

[MyNameGoesHere]

29. Oh jesus F@#$# christ hell in a handbasket! YOU MOTHER #@#%$#% WON!

Stop bashing HRC and her supporters and get on with supporting the nominee Obama. I was very supportive and i dropped it when it was over. Get a F8@%#%^2 life or something. Continually bashing her or her supporters is counter to what Obama is trying to accomplish.

[jakem]

30. dude. chill.

it is a valid question, as the idea of democrats choosing McCain is a weird one.

I don't think anyone wants anything from HRC other than stepping gracefully out of the way. If she can do that, the duality will resolve.]

I doubt there will be any mention of her whatsoever, if she endorsed and actually played along with the party!

[Marie26]

39. Except she's done that

She's endorsed, ended her campaign, yet the attacks on her & her supporters continue. Dude, you WON. What's the point of the continued slams except pettiness?

[jakem]

40. did she? as of this mornings news NPR reported she did not plan to use the term endorse-

that she was "suspending" the campaign, and keeping her delegates.


if this has been updated, great. but if this is still the case, she is not ending the campaign in full- which is what we all need.

my dislike for her is entirely in proportion to my perception of her need to sabotage the election for a democratic win.

[Marie26]

43. Quote:

From Hillary Clinton:

"On Saturday, I will extend my congratulations to Senator Obama and my support for his candidacy. This has been a long and hard-fought campaign, but as I have always said, my differences with Senator Obama are small compared to the differences we have with Senator McCain and the Republicans.

I have said throughout the campaign that I would strongly support Senator Obama if he were the Democratic Party's nominee, and I intend to deliver on that promise. ...

I will be speaking on Saturday about how together we can rally the party behind Senator Obama. The stakes are too high and the task before us too important to do otherwise."

Hillary Clinton to endorse Barack Obama on Saturday -
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jun/05/obama.runningmate

Happy?

[jakem]

46. if she actually unequivocally endorses, yes. will be happy.

[jakem]

50. and then we hear this:

"MSNBC reporting that Hillary wants to keep her name in ballot box"

[Celebration]

32. there are all flavors and varieties of Hillary supporters

But really a lot are Democrats that think her health care platform is better. So don't try to paint all of them with the same brush. Sure, some are racists, for instance, but that CANNOT be generalized.

[faithfulcitizen]

33. I know she had a whole lotta of "supporters" in Indiana,

[EstimatedProphet]

35. Yeah, us Indianans is stoopid.

[faithfulcitizen]

52. As a Hoosier, in a very red state, w/an open primary- you betcha "operation chaos' was in full swing

Everyone here acknowledged it, it was written about at length. I have at least 5 family members that I know for a fact voted for Clinton with absolutely no intention to vote for her in the GE. Many estimates had repub cross over any where from 8-15% of her vote. So, claim those if you like, but it just isn't reality.

Are you from Indiana? I've never heard anyone from Indiana refer to themselves as an Indianan.

[EstimatedProphet]

53. No, I'm not from Indiana - I just live here

What I object to is the line that went around here after the primary, which is that Indiana went to Clinton because all the Republicans voted for her. All that is really saying is that anyone who would support Clinton is a secret Repub, so it's OK to attack Clinton supporters because they're not real Dems. Enough already! She can have her own supporters without them being infiltrators.

[Marie26]

36. OK, where is this meme coming from?

I don't know ONE Clinton supp. who is voting for McCain, yet according to DU, they're everywhere. Most Clinton supporters are actually Democrats, & actually she received MORE votes from registered Democrats than Obama, who drew Independents & Republicans as well.

[Chulanowa]

49. Probably from places like "Hillaryis44"

http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=645#comments
"# paddy4Hill Says:
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:14 pm

Isn’t it a bit funny that the McCain team has nicer things to say about Hillary than Obama’s? It shows who is the smarter of the two. If Obama is the nominee, I certainly hope McCain puts a woman on the ticket and moves the GOP to the solid center. He will not have to worry any more about his own right wing. The DNC will have given them a reason to vote, to vote against Obambi. He will just need to move to the center to get the McCain Democrats and with a woman as his VP, many of Hillary’s supporters will come over too.

It will be important that Obama not only lose, but lose so badly that we do not have to deal with him again."

http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=646#comments
"# hawk Says:
June 4th, 2008 at 1:29 am

They lost me a long time ago when all of our candidates were still in the race. Never Obama, never. I will be spreading all of our dirt on republican blogs, to republicans in Iowa, and doing anything I can to end his joke of a burden he calls a campaign."

http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=644#comments
"clintondem99 Says:
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:10 pm

Great article:
White Women Take the Gloves Off
By Froma Harrop

The woman who shouted “McCain in ‘08″ at the Democratic rules committee was speaking for a multitude. After mounting for months, female anger over the choreographed dumping on Hillary Clinton and her supporters has exploded — and party loyalty be damned. That the women are beginning to have a good time is an especially bad sign for Barack Obama’s campaign.

“Obama will NOT get my vote, and one step more,” Ellen Thorp, a 59-year-old flight attendant from Houston told me. “I have been a Democrat for 38 years. As of today, I am registering as an independent. Yee Haw!”"

http://www.hillaryis44.org/?p=642#comments
"# Ann Says:
June 1st, 2008 at 3:27 pm

hawk,
Exactly……McCain 2008 (if not HRC)/HRC 2012. BO Never."

A site with several hundred Hillary Supporters... And these are just single selections from the comments on the most recent posts there.

Hillary supporters who support McCain is where the "Hillary supporters are supporting McCain" meme comes from.

[Marie26]

65. There's nuts everywhere

But the fact is that those 18 million Clinton voters are almost all registered Democrats, & will support the Dem. nominee. It bothers me when almost half of the primary voters, the core constituents of the DNC, are judged based on a website of a few nuts. IMO, most Clinton supporters are pragmatic & Democrats first. In fact, there's a ton of threads right here on DU from Clinton supporters congratulating Obama, but it's like people prefer to believe the stereotypes or would rather hate on Clinton or her supporters some more rather than embrace unity now.

[Chulanowa]

76. And yet, there they are

We've got a few here on DU who are just stopping shy of endorsing John MCain - they say "I'll vote Democratic in the GE" and then do their level best to paint Obama as a wife-beating, gay-hating, watermelon-eating Muslim lib'rul elitist who stands no chance, NO chance against even Ron Paul in the GE.

I'm not judging all Hillary supporters by the bag of mixed nuts we find on the internet... But I am noting that there's enough nuts to cause me worry.

[Marie26]

66. There's nuts everywhere

But the fact is that those 18 million Clinton voters are almost all registered Democrats, & will support the Dem. nominee. It bothers me when almost half of the primary voters, the core constituents of the DNC, are judged based on a website of a few nuts. IMO, most Clinton supporters are pragmatic & Democrats first. In fact, there's a ton of threads right here on DU from Clinton supporters congratulating Obama, but it's like people prefer to believe the stereotypes or would rather hate on Clinton or her supporters some more rather than embrace unity now.

[sybylla]

56. I just got off the phone with a SD in my state

She got several calls this week (because she hadn't committed yet) from HRC supporters who made that very claim as they demanded she vote for HRC - that they would vote McCain if Hillary wasn't on the ticket somehow.

Live in denial all you want, but the meme is based in fact.

[Marie26]

68. No, ancedote

Which is very different. If someone had a survey of 18 million primary voters, that'd be a fact. Of course there's some die-hards on either side, but most Clinton supporters will have no problem voting for Obama. Which is why her attempt to use those votes as "leverage" mostly failed. Even on DU, when people post "loyalty tests", Clinton supporters overwhelmingly would support Obama in the GE.

[RaleighNCDUer]

82. While two months ago the polls said "28% of Clinton Voters would

vote for McCain"

http://www.gallup.com/poll/105691/McCain-vs-Obama-28-Clinton-Backers-McCain.aspx

Sure, that changes after Obama gets the nomination, but you can see why it is more than mere 'anecdote'.

[BlooInBloo]

37. That's just what Clinton-supporters say, so that they don't have to take any responsibility for...

the shittacular things they say.

[Marie26]

38. Yes, they all say they're Rep. in disguise

You've discovered our insidious evil plan.

[sybylla]

57. You don't have to be Republican to say shittacular things

No evil plan necessary.


on edit - did you notice that you were the one who said the "R" word, not the poster you responded to?

[cynatnite]

41. I really don't think so...

If there is resentment it'll pass and most of her supporters will get behind Obama, IMO.

[OzarkDem]

42. Shouldn't you be focusing on McCain?

and the GOP?

[Barack_America]

44. That number would include the Operation Chaos folks...

But the majority are Dems who we need to vote for Obama in November.

[FlaGranny]

47. The majority are Dems, yes,

but there is a small handful of Hillary "supporters" still digging up and posting supposedly detrimental Obama stuff - stuff they won't be allowed to post next week at this time. If these are real Hillary "supporters" or Democrats I'd be really surprised. The ONLY reason for such posts is to try to harm Obama. The only thing harming Obama does at this point is to help Republicans. Either that, or they are completely deluded.

[TeamJordan23]

45. I think a small minority; ironically most of those people are on hillaryclintonforum.net. nm

[Arkansas Granny]

48. It has been reported that many Republicans crossed over to vote for Obama in the primaries.

If Clinton had won the nomination, would they have voted for her in the GE or would they revert to the Republicans? This is something we will never know, but I would imagine that anyone who switched parties just to support a certain candidate would probably switch back if that candidate didn't win the nomination.

[Iceburg]

51. No - most WERE life-long Dems. /nt

[crankychatter]

54. I don't know but, I find it hard to believe that the NEW voters were supporting Clinton

but it was a very narrow race in places

so, to counter the new voters, mostly for Obama... those voters had to come from SOMEwhere

That's assuming Obama got the vast majority of new voters

I'm sure those stats are available SOMEwhere

[Marrah_G]

55. Why can't you just be happy that Obama won?

[Avalux]

64. It has nothing to do with being happy Obama won.

It was just something I was thinking about; it's a legitimate question.

[krawhitham]

58. YES but not because of operation chaos

A lot of Rethug women supported her and would have voted for her in the GE but since she lost they will go back to their own (McCain)

[snooper2]

61. beats me...

but the couple hundred that continually post on her website are fucking idiots...

[Zenmaster]

62. Hillary doesn't have 18 million supporters

At least, not in the sense you are talking about.

Almost 18 million people voted for both Obama and Clinton.

Its doubtfull that the die hards even make up 1 million. If you take every Hillary supporter that posts on the internet, calls into radio shows and goes to protests, you have thousands...not millions.

[TexasObserver]

63. Yes, 10% of her voters are REAL Republicans, and 10% are Dems in name only

About 10% of her supporters are people who vote in the Dem primary for local races, but always vote GOP in the presidential general election.

So, about 1 of every 5 of her voters is already a McCain voter. We will get most of the remaining 80% of her voters.

[demo dutch]

70. Proof???? or are you just pulling this out of your ...

[AtomicKitten]

67. Operation Chaos.

[demo dutch]

69. No just moderate Dems

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

71. Reagan Democrats, DLC, uber-"moderates", the right wing of the party.

The conflict between the left & right has been going on since the party's inception.

It isn't about to disappear because Obama (who is perceived to be the standard bearer of the left) got nominated.

The right wing of the party, the "not as bad as the republicans", "we must get the south", pandering wing will still be exerting whatever influence it can with the usual threats of imminent defeat and disaster if we don't "triangulate" to the right.

[demo dutch]

72. Sparosnare.. GIVE IT A REST! Obama will all of those Dem base

Clinton carried or he's not going to make it!

[Avalux]

75. I never said anything about the Dem base.

I was specifically wondering about Clinton supporters who are defecting to McCain.

[Lilith Velkor]

73. No.

[grantcart]

81. whoever they were they sat on their pocket books for whatever reason