Yes, people are being critical of Hillary. And it's justified.

[DanTex]

It's not "being a hater". People are criticizing Hillary Clinton because right now she's actively hurting Barack Obama's chances of becoming president.

I'm also critical of John McCain. That's not "being a hater" either. I don't wish him harm. In fact, I don't actually "hate" him. It's more that I think that he would be a bad president and I disagree vehemently with a lot of what he has to say. But in many ways, Hillary is doing more damage to Barack Obama and the Democratic party than John McCain.

So if you're looking for "unity", don't criticize people like me for pointing out the truth. This is a discussion board. Its purpose is not to indulge Hillary Clinton supporters in the fantasy that she's being a loyal and helpful Democrat, or that she's run an honorable campaign. Hillary is out there hurting the party. It's her responsibility to stop, and to somehow repair the damage she's done. It's not up to the Obama "netroots" to pretend that she hasn't done anything wrong.

The fact of the matter is, this contest was over in March. After Hillary lost 11 contests in a row and ran out of money, her only hope was for superdelegates to override the pledged delegates, thereby tearing the party apart. That was not going to happen.

Remember what John Edwards said when he was effectively out of the running? "It’s time for me to step aside so that history can blaze its path." THAT's a graceful concession.

But what did we get from Hillary? Three months of negative campaigning. Insisting that Barack was out of touch with "hard-working white Americans". Taking his "bitter" comments out of context. Praising John McCain's experience. Angering her base by playing victim. Challenging the legitimacy of Barack's nomination with "Hillary math". Trying to strong-arm superdelegates behind the scenes. Using the "nuclear option" in an attempt to force a change of rules through the DNC.

So now we have a divided party. This didn't have to happen. She could have conceded in March when the odds against here were 100-1.

Or she could have conceded yesterday, when the odds were 1000-1. It almost would have made up for the divisiveness of her campaign.

I know, she'll (hopefully) concede eventually, but last night was perhaps her last chance to be graceful and decisive. Everyone has voted. We have the first African American presidential candidate ever. He gave a home-run of a victory speech in a packed arena, the same arena where the RNC will hold its convention. There were tears flowing all across the country. I don't know how Barack himself managed to keep it together. This was the moment.

I got more votes than anyone.
I haven't decided what to do yet.
Go to my website and leave me some suggestions.
I've got 18 million supporters, hear me roar.

Ugh.

[gateley]

1. Perfect. nt

[DevonRex]

2. Spot on! She is being criticized for not being gracious and for

actually hurting our chances of winning in November. She is acting like she has some sort of power over Obama. In short, she's kinda nuts.

[NanceGreggs]

3. Yes, absolutely perfect!

:kick: & REC'D!

[HockeyMom]

4. Ignore her

that is the what everyone should do now to Hillary.

[ampad]

5. Excellent

Happy to rec

[LaurenG]

6. I think it's about to get worse.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6272350&mesg_id=6272350

[Enrique]

7. let me coin the term "reverse strawman"

you're defending behavior that is not in question.

Yes, legitimate criticism of Hillary is not hatred.

But there's very little of that. Most of it is hatred. Example: people that declare "I hate her".

[SoCalDem]

9. You'll probably find that MOST did not always "hate her"

Most were probably perfectly happy to vote for her UNTIL ..well you know the rest from here on..

She did it to herself, and refuses to accept her fate..she LOST..plain and simple..

and in losing, she tried to and continues to try to drag Obama under with her..

[DanTex]

17. I call your "reverse strawman", and raise you a "double secret reverse strawman"

I'm responding to people who argue that Obama supporters need to play nice and stop attacking Hillary in the interest of unity. And my objection to that argument is that it implicitly blames "Hillary-haters" for the lack of unity.

The fact of the matter is, Hillary Clinton has done thousands of times more damage to party unity than all DU posters combined. We wouldn't have this unity problem if she hadn't run such a divisive campaign, if she had conceded gracefully. The problem isn't "Hillary-haters", the problem is Hillary Clinton.

Consequently, the person who needs to "play nice" and fix this mess is none other than Hillary Clinton. I'm not going to pretend she hasn't acted outrageously just to make her supporters feel better. Her supporters don't listen to anonymous internet posts by Obama supporters anyway. They listen to Hillary. She's the one who can make a difference.

[Hissyspit]

32. You did not coin "reverse strawman." Google it.

[RiverStone]

8. Great post Dan!

I'm a little to pissed off these days to be as observant. :hi:

K&R

[nod factor]

10. So

"her only hope was to override the pledged delegates" huh.
LOL that is the biggest whopper I have heard here yet.
As I remember it, around that same time that was not the mantra.
The mantra was, "her only hope is to use the superdelegates to override the will of the ppl.
The irony is astounding since that is essentially what Obama ended up doing.
The way history records this primary season, is that more voters(in a similar fashion to how they do come November) marked a ballot for Hillary than Obama.
And to make matters worse, not only did Obama need these same insidious superdelegates to win, but he also ended up clinching with delegates given when his name wasn't even on the ballot. You can't get more undemocratic than that. The history here is ugly.
I really hope Obama can win in some glorious fashion that will overshadow the shamockery that has been this primary.

I submit to all my fellow democrats.
In the spirit that the rules were created, Hillary is the clear winner.
That is all.

[RiverStone]

11. 6 more days for you to submit anti DEM nominee posts...n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. clock is ticking NM

[hfojvt]

19. you can get more undemocratic that awarding a candidate some delegates

you could have an 'election' with no campaign and with only one name on the ballot.

The pledged delegates represent the will of the people, and unlike somebody who was collecting superdelegates before anybody even voted, Obama's superdelegates did not subvert or try to force the will of the people.

[frylock]

22. clear as mud

kirk out.

[WeDidIt]

13. In another week, whatever she does will be irrelevent

Some of her more lunatical supporters will jump to John McCain to show their support for feminism by supporting a guy who will insure women do not get equal pay for equal work and have no reproductive freedoms.

But everybody else will be geared up to stick it to the guy running for George Bush's third term.

[K Gardner]

14. You're exactly right.. her temper tantrum is getting a lot of coverage now; in a week she will have

overplayed her hand to the point of irrelevancy.

[apocalypsehow]

15. Spot-on. K & R. n/t.

[Arugula Latte]

16. Spot on and well said.

:applause:

[closeupready]

18. Big K&R

Woot.

[FedoraLV]

20. k & r/nt

[crickets]

21. Well said. K&R

:dem:

[Lugnut]

23. She has earned my disdain

She blew her shot at making a dignified exit on Tuesday night. She forced her colleagues and major supporters to shove her out instead. Charlie Rangel's comments are stunning in their candor and quite significant. Telling the truth is absolutely justified.

[rebel with a cause]

33. Rangel and others were having a news conference

a few minutes ago praising Hillary for dropping out and etc. I turned it off, because frankly, I am sick of Hillary and everything to do with her. She has stayed in this campaign after she lost because it is her last hurrah, her way to keep control of the media and her way to steal Barack's moment of recognition for historical accomplishment and his voters celebration. This delay has nothing to do with her concern for her voters, it has more to do with her need to be "the one".

I was not going to say anything negative about her after the end of the primary, but according to the media and Hillary it is not over until she concedes. Also, yesterday Barack was getting blasted by freepers or Hillary supporters, whatever, and although I will not sink as low as they did, I will speak my mind about the candidate that lost.

[barack the house]

24. Word is she is conceding Friday so let's wait and see and be cool.

[rebel with a cause]

34. I have heard it is now Saturday

by tomorrow it may be Sunday and on and on.

[Beacool]

25. Why?

Her candidacy is just as historical as his and she won most primaries after Feb., including SD yesterday. Obama won, but he never closed the deal. The SD closed it for him.

[Leftist Agitator]

26. In six days, either your disruptive bullshit will cease, or...

You'll be banned.

And since I doubt that you'll have the restraint necessary to support the INEVITABLE Democratic nominee, I imagine a lot of DUers will be applauding your impending departure.

[EstimatedProphet]

29. What was disruptive about that?

[Independent-Voter]

27. Great post. It's a pity that her hanger-on's won't get it.

[EstimatedProphet]

28. How about when she's accused of potentially assassinating Obama?

Like when posters say that she wants on the ticket so that she can have Obama killed and become VP? Is that justified?

[LeFleur1]

30. Not Counting

The Hillary haters on this forum can't count, it seems. Half of the Democrats that voted in Primaries voted for Hillary. Probably over half. Primary votes don't count in some Caucus states, I've heard. Hillary votes didn't count in my caucus state, I know.
That means that whether you like it or not, half of the voters do not believe whole heartedly that Obama will make the difference real Democrats want, or that he can even if he wanted to. The only thing he has proven is that he can get a crowd going and he runs when things go bad.
The Half of the voters who voted for Hillary come from all walks of life. Educated professionals, working class (whatever they are), women, men, all minorities. Some of them are waaay smarter than the haters on this forum who support Obama.

My vote is still my vote, the Democratic party doesn't own it. They have to earn it. Their actions have to prove to me they can make America better.

If I thought that this forum were truly representative of the Democratic Party I wouldn't waste my vote on such.

[LanternWaste]

31. And the most obvious place and time to begin healing...

"So now we have a divided party."

And the most obvious place and time fur us to begin healing that rift is here and now. On DU. Us.

Both sides own the sin and both sides have the responsibility (and the perfect opportunity) to extend grace and dignity to the other.

We all stand together.



But I won't expect it from the party leadership until I see it begin here.

And I haven't seen it begin here yet...

[DanTex]

35. I don't buy that.

I find your reasoning circular. For three months, Hillary has been hurting the party and attacking Barack Obama. Many of us have pointed this out and called on her to extend some dignity and grace to Obama and to the party as a whole.

And now you come around and call on us DUers to extend dignity and grace.

But I am no more responsible for the actions of Hillary Clinton than you are responsible for my actions. I could just as easily argue that you are the one being divisive by accusing me and other DUers of lacking grace and dignity.

Why don't YOU extend ME some dignity and grace and stop telling be to stop attacking Hillary. I didn't cause the rift in the party, Hillary Clinton did.

This is an internet forum. We have neither the power nor the responsibility to clean up mess that Hillary Clinton created.

Hillary is the one who needs to extend grace and dignity.

[ProSense]

36. Excellent OP and comment!

Hillary's leadership skills are lacking.

[LanternWaste]

39. My own grace and my own dignity are not predicated

My own grace and my own dignity are not predicated on the lack of the same from anyone else... I'm sure you feel the same, yes?

We can begin to heal the party ourselves. It can start here. It can start today.

Or... we can wait until someone else starts it themselves, but chances are, if we wait for someone else to start, we'll be waiting a long time.

It's up to us...


"Why don't YOU extend ME some dignity and grace and stop telling be to stop attacking Hillary."

I'm not telling any one person to do this, so there's not reason to assume I'm targeting you specifically. Also, I'm not "telling" anyone to do anything-- it's only a mere suggestion.

It's up to us.

[papapi]

37. Hillary MUST concede for this to go away. Her delusional antics are reprehensible.

[Stephanie]

38. too late to recommend, but perfectly said

playing the victim is not becoming to her, or to her supporters.