Umm, stop attacking Hillary and her supporters

[gravity]

Some Obama supporters here still have an axe to gind, but the only thing they are doing is damaging our party's chances to win in November.

Hillary has lost, and even she knows it by now. By the tone of her speech, she isn't going to take this to the convention and will support Obama, so there is nothing to worry about now except beating McCain.

[Melancholic Toaster]

1. Hm?

Half the people slamming her are her own supporters. She's managed to shame even us.

[still_one]

2. I am sorry my friend, but you and I must not have been listening to the same speech

Maybe you are right, she isn't going to take it to the convention, but it sure wasn't indicated by her speech

In fact just the opposite

She encouraged her supporters to continue, and strongly implied that she would continue the fight. Was it the fight for her causes or the fight to take it to the convention?

[WillyToad]

61. You just cannot let go, can you?

You are like a three year old who wont give up his binky

[TornadoTN]

77. Pardon, but are you describing Hillary's campaign?

Yes, indeed it is very much like a three year old that wont give up his binky.

Or a spoiled child who didnt get their way so now they are going to make a menace of themselves as payback.

Yep, that just about sums up Hillary.

[gravity]

67. If she was going to continue the fight, she would have said so

She didn't say one thing negative about Obama during the speech, so there isn't really anything to worry about. Relax

[Pisces]

3. SHe was encouraging her rabid followers not to vote for Obama. She wants him to lose.

It is so obvious.

[lapfog_1]

4. Well, AP said this morning that she was going to concede

the nomination tonight. Everyone else speculated that she would call her senior staff in and tell them it's over.

None of that happened (advance staff have been told to not plan any more events, but then there are no more primaries either).

So... just what makes you so sure she won't take this to the convention?

And it's NOT the Obama supporters that are damaging our party right now.

[EFerrari]

5. The tone of her speech was to encourage her supporters

in the vain hope that her campaign had any chance of success.

And, I can't wait until we can focus on McWar.

[ShortnFiery]

6. Why, tonight HRC is clearly "delusional" - with Terry McMeth they are on A Big Vacation

from reality. Everyone else in America KNOWS that Obama is the Presumptive Democratic Nominee ... everyone but Hillary and Terry. :thumbsdown:

[Raine]

7. That's easily solved...when Hillary concedes

until then I'm not going to stop going after her. :mad:

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Arkansas Granny]

34. Oh, how --AHEMcleverAHEM-- of you.

[dorktv]

9. Apparently they want her on her knees or something.

I mean it is very weird that instead of all the posts being about Senator Obama and the plan to win, it is about "THAT HORRID WOMAN WILL NOT GIVE US WHAT WE WANT!!!"

[EFerrari]

12. It's not weird to expect the loser to admit the loss

and to wish the winner well. That's actually pretty normal behavior, fyi.

[dorktv]

17. Yes but if you look at the fact that neither has enough pledged delegates

and that a bunch of supers switched, I can see why she would not concede.

She also has some points left to make at convention. So why would she? If it goes to a floor vote, the chances of it being a multi floor vote are next to zero and quite a few candidates did not release their delegates until the convention so what harm is there?

None. But could not believe that by looking this website. To be completely over the top just this once-it is like she is personally standing in front of every voting booth in America and ordering people with a cattle prod to not vote for Senator Obama and vote for Senator McCain.

Which is certainly not the case.

[EFerrari]

19. Well, considering that the DLC has been working for years

to make sure nothing ever happens at the convention, you might understand why now, after all these years of staged conventions, it's not routine for anyone to take anything there.

You're thinking about the rules as written, which is fine. But, we also have to look at what the party practices. What people are responding to is a practice that Clinton herself has supported for many years.

It won't go to a floor vote. Nancy, as chair, won't have it, no one in this party has allowed anything so spontaneous in many years. And Hillary was right along side of the people that decided that conventions shouldn't be left to chance.

[dorktv]

23. The DLC was not even in existance when the Supers were created.

Nice factoid though.

[EFerrari]

80. You're right about that. n/t

[emilyg]

14. You'd think they would be happy tonight and

celebrating. Maybe they don't know how to be happy.

[Youphemism]

15. Does she have to go to her knees to congratulate him on a win?

Sorry. I've been in Appeasement Mode with Hillary supporters for a while now. I know we need them to win, and I've tried to convince other Obama supporters to let her play this out.

But her supporters are uspet and Hillary took this moment, when she should have just acknowledged a win, to foment discontent -- just to further her ambitions.

What does it take for Hillary supporters to realize that she's not on their side, not on our side, only on her side?

She tried to force Obama to offer her the VP slot today. She might well have hurt her own cause by doing that.

She has the rest of the week, and the clock is ticking. I know the Democratic Party is thinking the same thing.

If she doesn't make good on her promise and start supporting Obama, instead of trying to undermine him with her self-positioning as "the candidate with the most votes, the candidate who takes the electoral states, the candidate with the most experience, and the victim of a cruel, harsh unfair system and the media," she is in for some bigtime party backlash.

Her promise to support the democratic nominee was unconditional. It was not prefaced with, "As long as he gives me what I want."

By now, it should be clear to Clinton supporters that both she and the republican party are using them. Hillary should enjoy the rest of the week, and come clean sometime during it. After that, she starts getting gnawed on by the hydra -- the one with heads named "Pelosi," "Dean," "Reid," "Gore," "Carter," "Olbermann," and "Huffington."

I'll try to keep my posting annoyance relatively in check for the rest of the week.

After that, it's open season on Hillary, who will soon become the "Scourge of the Party."

[dorktv]

18. She won her eighth primay since February, why should she give in this second?

why the hysteria? She can give in next week, next month, never, if she has lost so what if she never concedes?

And who the fuck allowed Olberman and Huffington to decide OUR party's nominee?
*edited for spelling

[Youphemism]

22. You're mistaking annoyance for hysteria...

> She can give in next week, next month, never, if she has lost so what if she never concedes?

You're right. I guess it just means she would have been lying when she promised to unite the party and support the winner of the primaries. Right now, there are a lot of angry Hillary supporters -- not annoyed, like me -- truly angry people who are vowing to vote for McCain, or stay home, because she has fueled the notion that she's somehow being robbed. I'll also take a moment to point out the obvious -- that congratulating the winner is what anyone who is a good sport would do. It's what Obama did for her every single time she won a state.

Every day she waits, people will get more upset and divisive. And making that comment about the fact she would consider letting Obama ask her to be VP on the day he takes the nomination was fairly pathetic and indefensible.

As far as Keith and Arianna go, I'm just saying that they are about to join the rest of the party in identifying Hillary as a pariah if this week goes by and she still hasn't done the right thing. She won't be able to run for hallway monitor if she sticks it to the party.

[dorktv]

25. She is sixty years old, and is a senator in a state so blue they could double as Smurfs.

She also works her ass off for that seat. So frankly, it looks like hysteria to me when people run around (here at least) claiming she should give in to someone who (to her anyway) has not actually won.

And she has lied before, all politicians do.

[Youphemism]

28. Run around?

I type while I'm sitting. And however you're interpreting hysteria, it's flawed. I promise, I'm annoyed. As I said, I've already annoyed some Obama supporters trying to calm them down. I don't upset that easily.

But it's not a subjective standard. The number, which she got moved, is 2118. Obama has many more delegates than that. Period. The goal line has been crossed.

She kept asking for everyone to just hang in there until this was all over. They did. It's over. The game has been played and there's a winner. It's time to jump over the net and shake the opponent's hand, but she's taking her ball and going home.

It would be okay for her to be a bad sport like that, except she's getting her voters angry in the process -- and basically asking them to go to her website and tell her why she should keep splitting the party. And it's obviously all in the name of her next career move, not what's best for the country.

I agree with you on one thing. All politicians lie. But some are definitely more unconscionable and shameless than others.

[dorktv]

29. I said my piece and using run around was a figure of speech.

[NashVegas]

73. LOL

I'm stealing your line about the Smurfs.

[Darth_Kitten]

47. Exactly.........

Right on.

[NashVegas]

70. On All Fours, IMO

[slinkerwink]

10. I'm not attacking her supporters. I just wish she had been more gracious to us tonight.

[GoldieAZ49]

11. This is the face of "Hope, Change and Unity"

You know, "the ones we have been waiting for" :rofl:

It is good to see it with the covers pulled, not dressed up in a speech

[EFerrari]

13. So, when you f#ck people over, do you expect them to embrace you?

Now, *that's* weird.

[emilyg]

16. I don't expect you to embrace us ever.

[EFerrari]

21. And there you get cause and effect mixed up.

Tonight, Hillary had a great opportunity to end this contest with dignity and to celebrate her achievements. Instead, she did something very different. She didn't give Obama the credit he deserved for his historic win and she presented herself as his continuing opponent.

It makes no sense to embrace you competitor mid-contest. And that's what you're asking me to do. That's not reasonable.

[FlaGranny]

62. Some of these

Hillary supporters are the most delusional people I've ever seen. They just cannot SEE.

[EFerrari]

82. Good morning, FlaGranny. A lot of us have had our moments, no?

:hi:

[Crunchy Frog]

27. .

[rodeodance]

55. I don't want it if this is 'it'.

[PoliticalAmazon]

20. EXCUSE ME. You don't use kumbaya as a tactic against an election stealer....

I didn't lay down for Bush Jr in 2000 and 2004, and I'll be damned if I'll lay down for Hillary's election stealing antcis.

[papapi]

24. Hillary is the one damaging our chances. But we will not be thwarted by Hillary and...

...her attack dogs anymore. Obama is the presumptive nominee of the Party and deserves the support of all Democrats. Your post borders on "Hillaryous Hysteria".

[Darth_Kitten]

54. Grab some class....

n/t

p.s. Why don't you get lost? LOL Nice hit and run IMs, dearie.

[gravity]

68. Attacking her will damage our chances in November now

You could make an argument that she has damaged our chances to stay in the race, but when you start attacking her now, you are doing the same thing. Obama needs all the Democrats on his side instead of alienating have of them.

Obama gets it and is praising her efforts in this campaign, but some supporters here are still holding a grudge

[Pushed To The Left]

26. I agree 100%. The only people that deserve to be attacked here are people who won't support the

Democratic nominee over a primary grudge.

[bowens43]

30. the tone of her speech was defiant.

she needs to concede then sit down and STFU.

[JVS]

31. Why? She's still campaigning.

[AtomicKitten]

32. Sure thing. As soon as she concedes.

[Eurobabe]

33. Who are you, the great Karnack?

What makes you think she will fall into line? She has asked her supporters to tell her where to go from here. Do you trust them to say, oh, Hillary be a sport, endorse Barack.

:rofl:

[democracy1st]

35. what the hell are you talking about they're still attacking Obama

[Life Long Dem]

36. Clinton's words tell us ...

she will not release her supporters (what she has left) to go Obama's way. And is using them as a bargaining chip for maybe the VP spot.

Time to call Clinton's bluff?

[billyoc]

37. You forgot to add her donation website address to your post.

I'd say campaign website, but, well, you know.

[matcom]

38. At WHAT POINT is 'Gracious' NOT enough for you?

seems to me HE has taken the high road here. HE has been MORE than gracious. SHE wants to hold him hostage.

Screw. You are sore losers and I'm sick of it. HISTORY was made last night and SHE wasn't even able to recognize that.

[Tyler Durden]

40. Even that idiot Lou Dobbs has figured it out: take a clue, Mat.

Obama needs Clinton Supporters infinitely more than Clinton Supporters need Obama.

Another thing: Clinton Supporters were looking for THEIR moment in history (or HERSTORY) as well: to denigrate what is to them a tragedy is worse than foolish, it's suicidal

When one group holds their "History" is more important than another's, there is danger in the air. One should recall that the LAST group to be given the vote in this country was WOMEN, and when History was made by a woman running for the nomination, NO ONE ever recognized that fact, especially not Obama Supporters.

The figure of alienated Clinton Supporters to not vote for Obama and cost the Party the election is 1 in 16. That's 6%. Food for thought, and perhaps the indignation for Clinton NOT jumping on the Obama bandwagon less than 4 hours after the last primary is a little misplaced.

No personal offense intended.

[progdonkey]

60. bull. shit.

"Obama needs Clinton Supporters infinitely more than Clinton Supporters need Obama."

Obama's going to do quite well in November, with or without Hillary's supporters. McCain is going to be completely destroyed--having Hillary's people will just make the destruction more complete, but won't make the difference. (This isn't like 2000 or 2004.)

Now, if Obama does somehow lose, that will mean we'll have to deal with at least another four years of the Bush administration (by all accounts even worse). McCain will get to choose any new SC justices--effectively deciding whether abortion will remain legal--continue the war in Iraq, start one with Iran, destroy the economy even further, stand still on the environment, and so on. Hillary's supporters will be affected by at least one of these things, if not all.

Hillary's people need Obama far more than he needs them.

Yes, black men technically were given the vote before women, but ever heard of Jim Crow? It's kinda hard to vote when you'll be beaten and/or lynched if you try to. Blacks still have to deal with disenfranchisement, which in 2000 was done at the hands of a white woman, so don't begin to equate "first black president" with "first female president". White women have had it much better than black men in this country. It is absolutely a greater triumph that we'll have a black president than a woman president.

1 in 16 Hillary supporters? Ooh, what a threat. That's about 1.1 million Dems. 122 million people voted in the 2004 general election. Obama's currently leading McCain by 1.4%, with 8.2% undecided, in the average of all the major polls. Using a voting pool of 122 million, that's a 1.7 million vote lead with about 10 million undecided. If Obama maintains that lead and simply splits the undecideds with McCain (which is being very generous to McCain), those 1.1 million Hillary voters can stay home for all I care, because it won't mean a thing. And, again, that's using 122 million, which we'll almost certainly surpass this year, making that 1.1 million even more meaningless.

And, lastly, Lou Dobbs is an idiot. So why does he cease being an idiot when he says things that confirm your own biases--could that not be just another example of his idiocy?

[matcom]

87. got news for you. he doesn't need YOU

you aren't going to be pleased anyway. HE doesn't need YOU. YOU are NOTHING.

Deal.

[polmaven]

86. HE may have taken the high road.

HE may have been more than gracious, but many of his SUPPORTERS have not. Perhaps you should take your lead from the candidate. You will note that the OP is directed at his SUPPORTERS, not at HIM!

[matcom]

88. so you are the idiot for equating a supporter with a candidate

:eyes:

sounds "rational" to me

[polmaven]

89. The candidate is

going to have to rely on his supporters to help him get elected. Senator Obama will be much better off if his supporters are not out in their neigborhoods telling people that if they are too stupid to know already that he is better than McCain that he doesn't need their f'ing racist votes anyway.

[sendero]

39. Wahhh...

... as soon as people stop bringing her up, because she IS irrelevant, then she'll stop getting bashed.

[Tyler Durden]

41. Keep it up.

1 in 16.

[sendero]

46. I'm sure...

... I have no idea what you are talking about.

[progdonkey]

42. wow, that's like one big projection overload...

Obama's supporters "still have an axe to grind"? Hillary's supporters are the ones who have a loser candidate but won't accept her loss, and even threaten to stay home or vote for McCain if Hillary isn't given some special treatment. (Because coddling her fragile ego is far more important than getting behind Obama as he destroys McCain.)

"Obama's supporters are damaging our party's chances in November"? Yeah, the people who support the winner who wants to go forward are harming the party, whereas the loser's supporters who won't accept reality and admit defeat are the party's saviors.

What "tone" are you talking about? Last night was nothing but a stump speech--she's still campaigning.

[Darth_Kitten]

52. Nothing sadder than people who can NEVER see themselves.

Read the posts. What IS it about strong, intelligent, ambitious women that SO bothers some Obama supporters?

STILL? It's almost funny.

[progdonkey]

63. oh, please...

Yeah, Hillary's a "strong, intelligent, ambitious woman." She's also stubborn, incompetent, selfish, corrupt, and has political baggage that could reach to the Moon and back.

But no, of course the reason we don't like Hillary is because she makes our penises scared. And, yes, not a single woman voted for Obama--all of Obama's supporters are misogynist males who want to keep women in their place, which is in the kitchen baking cakes and making babies. :eyes:

Your subject line, then, is incredibly ironic, as you can't see that Hillary is an awful candidate and was always an awful choice to be the first female presidential candidate. Hillary didn't lose because she's a woman, she lost because she ran a poor campaign. The sooner you understand that, the better.

[Lerkfish]

43. sure, if this crap stops happening.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6265554&mesg_id=6265559

[Ganja Ninja]

44. Not a problem.

All she has to do is announce she is ending her campaign for the presidency and she'll be back in good graces with me.

[Darth_Kitten]

45. They have this really sick need to bash and demean her.

I really feel very sorry for the women in their own lives. Really, really poor sportsmanship. It makes me wonder WHY they are supporting Obama. Is it only because he isn't Clinton? :sarcasm:

Maybe they don't know want the words grace and class mean. They only THINK these words can never be applied to Hillary.

[Mudoria]

48. Donated to her campaign a few minutes ago.

I hope she keeps on standing up for herself and the rest of us who've supported her.

[AlabamaBrightBlueDot]

49. WOW

Did she give a different speech then the one I heard?

[JimGinPA]

50. Hillary & Her Supporters Here Need To Pucker Up...

Since many of them here reflect the class she has shown thus far.

[Darth_Kitten]

53. LOL Oh, another classy and mature statement.........

Many Obama supporters wouldn't know class if they were sitting in one. But like petulant children, they WANT class. They want it cause it's THERE. They are entitled.

:rofl:

[JimGinPA]

57. You've Proven Your Lack Of It Often Here

[Meshuga]

51. I agree

It is over and we need to get over the emotional stuff for the sake of unity. The same goes to the Hillary camp.

[DrDan]

56. a public flogging is the only thing that will satisfy their hate

sad, immature, juvenile

[sampsonblk]

58. She attacked herself by giving that absurd speech last night

All she has to do is show some class. Even Mitt Romney managed to do that.

[Marrah_G]

64. I thought it was a great speech and certainly set the tone for her stepping out of the race.

[WA98296]

59. SHE is the one who needs to end this circus.

[hokies4ever]

65. We'll wait until she concedes, thank you.

If your opponent is down by 35 points with 3 minutes left in the football game and they are throwing bombs down the field, you still keep your defense out there.

[Neshanic]

66. The Andy Sullivan love fest does wonders getting the gay vote too.

[YOY]

69. Only the ones still posting hit pieces.

No pity there. They have one week.

[Zavulon]

71. Um, no.

I haven't been attacking her supporters, but I will attack her any time I see fit. If you want to muzzle people, apply to be a mod.

[baldguy]

72. She'l stop being attacked once she concedes & backs Obama.

Until she gets behind the party's nominee AND STOPS ATTACKING HIM she's fair game.

[helderheid]

74. toon

[workinclasszero]

75. If she knows she lost why didn't she concede last night?

Why hasn't she conceded today?? She gave a damn victory speech last night!

Piss on her! If she refuses to concede to the dem nominee Sen. Obama then its still on!:mad:

[shadowknows69]

76. Done and done.

They want to pick a fight after this week I can't promise anything but I'm in peacemaking mode right now.

[spanone]

78. hillary needs to concede and congratulate obama...NOW

[progetto]

79. Hillary conceding today would be a very good thing.

This race was over weeks ago, her refusal to accept the math was divisive. A concession is overdue.

Supporters kept saying how undemocratic it was not to let her continue till someone had secured the nomination. Well, we now have a presumptive nominee.

The sooner Hillary concedes, the sooner we can focus on to beating McSame.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

81. You overestimate the impact of DU on the voting public.

If you think the well-deserved derision of the Clintons on DU will significantly impact the GE you need to get out more.

[gravity]

85. You could have a point

I just don't like this attitude coming from my own party. Just because someone has wronged you in the past, doesn't mean you have justification to keep putting them down. Both supporters need to learn forgiveness, so that we can put our past differences behind and move forward for the common good.

[PATRICK]

83. I noticed the supporters

are not all waiting for this kind of lead to make their own graceful transition to the party nominee. All in all, all things considered, any criticisms should concentrate on the candidate whose responsibility it is to lead the followers somewhere beside a stone wall leaning over a cliff. This is tragically typical leadership of the variety that leads from behind, gets impassioned about rivals or internal critics but bestows ingratiating smiles upon the mocking MSM cameras while nothing is done in the DC power games on behalf of the people dying, going broke and losing the rights Congress can't seem to fight for.

It is a type, a pose and most down to earth when snarling at other people raising the unused banner. Sweeping past the supporters so led, past the leader self-absorbed to the point of self oblivion, this is most welcome as a reminder of what has been defeated, set aside and surpassed. No purge, no smarmy ritual of unity but stark reality of the war against madness in which this first battle has made the possibility of the future victorious. Shades of the dark side of the force or the bewilderment of the ever losing imitators of a relentless GOP fraud, the people, not the failed leadership of the past, are on the move.

Let them sweep around the rocks, the rocks with rocks in head, the rocks piled with gold coin and green paper. The noise and fury belong to the waves of people and they are rising, precisely because the pettiness of the winds encourages stimulation and chaos. We think reasonably as sentimental Democrats of being a mighty river flow, set in course, led by wonderful, rich wise beings behind whom we can coast or get plugged into our useful places. This year it is a citizen tsunami and not just a party team spirit, a careful patching of pointed factions, and interests. There will be howling, always blind in our establishment fog machines and in our own arguments with each other, but a howling to shout down the artificial madness of the so-called leadership elites.

And there will be movement as there is now and any passion among those storming in perpetual loyalty around the Hillary rock will add to the song. Truth shall have its victory, the people will have their say and the waters will covert the earth. And the earth's petty gods will shut their mouths or drown.

(Warning: grandiose overblown Vachel Lindsay alert)

[RB TexLa]

84. Sure, that's going to happen. LOL

[Texasgal]

90. How does any Hillary "basher"

ruin anyones chances?

Bottom line: (sheesh... I cannot believe I have to type this missive AGAIN ) Anyone who bases their VOTE on what people say on an internet message board is an idiot. PERIOD.