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Five reasons (plus one) Hillary should not be on the Obama ticket:

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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 03:25 PM
Original message
Five reasons (plus one) Hillary should not be on the Obama ticket:
1.She wants to be president a little too much. A good VP has to be happy in the role of spokesmodel and ceremonial ribbon-cutter, someone who can be counted on to take one for the team whenever necessary. Sure, you say, Hillary can be counted on: to wage ruthless turf wars, compete for the spotlight, hijack the agenda and otherwise insert herself into the power equation whenever possible. True, Obama wouldn't be the clueless, spineless weakling that Bush is regarding the VP's office, but why would he put himself in the position of having to look over his shoulder all the time, trying to keep an eye on Hillary's machinations behind-the-scenes? He wouldn't, I'm pretty sure.

2.Her negatives still stink. Hillary and only Hillary will inflame the passions of legions of wingnuts who would otherwise stay home in stunned, Bud Light-muted apathy on election day, watching Dukes of Hazzard reruns. McCain offers evangelicals and anti-immigration racists nothing to vote for—but Hillary, of all the potential VP picks, will offer them someone to vote emphatically against. They hate her, and they'll turn out in droves if she's on the ticket.

3.She brings no extraordinary credibility, experience or expertise to the ticket. Unlike a Jim Webb (former Secretary of the Navy) or a Bill Richardson (former governor of NM, former Secretary of Energy, extraordinary experience in foreign policy and diplomacy), or even a Joe Biden (gives good TV, has considerable foreign policy expertise), the most notable moments in Hillary's political career have consisted of playing first lady to Wild Bill, bungling a golden opportunity for health care reform in the early 90s, and voting (cravenly) the wrong way on the IWR.

4.She's nobody's favorite son (or daughter). That means she won't deliver a single state or constituency for Obama that he wouldn't win without her. Unlike Webb, who could be counted on to impress moderate "national security" Dems and indies with his military credentials and tough demeanor, or Richardson, who would deliver huge blocks of Latino voters in the southwest, Florida and urban east, Hillary has no built-in constituency except maybe older white women, most of whom, I'm guessing, can be persuaded to vote for Obama over McCain (if not, then there's something going on there besides misplaced hyper-loyalty or post-election-loss bitterness).

5.Wild Bill, the loose cannon. In just a few short months, Bill Clinton has managed to reduce himself from revered party elder to race-baiting jackass. At this point I don't think anyone who's paying attention to American politics wants to see Bill Clinton anywhere near the White House. Frankly, we don't need the drama (or the potential for scandal that seems to follow Mr. Clinton like a leg-humping dog), or the diversion from the important work that needs to be done to repair the economy, get us out of Iraq, slow global warming, fix our collapsing fiscal house and restore the constitution. Please, Senator Obama, do us all a favor and send Bill Clinton back out to pasture where he belongs.

+1.She tried to make a preemptive move by asking for it. Essentially, she's daring Obama to refuse, threatening to stir up a little media shitstorm about how it's all personal and how he's throwing her supporters under the bus. Basically, it's a form of blackmail—which kind of proves several of my points above. Obama shouldn't give it to her just because she asked (in fact, the fact that she asked before conceding should disqualify her): he should pick the person who brings the most to the ticket and who would ultimately serve his presidency most effectively. And that ain't Hillary.
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HockeyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ok, I will bring it up
6. Especially after her assassination remark.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yep.
She might as well paint a target on his back, IMO.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. I shouldn't be laughing, but I am.
I half expect the headlines of some morning newspaper to read, "Hillary caught with M16 with telescopic lens."
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. Exactly.
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WA98296 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. All valid points.
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breakaleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. It's a toss up whether #5 or #+1 is worse.
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moondust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. One more.
Republicans and the corporate media would love it! They know it would be a continuous power and attention struggle for at least 4 years that would further divide and weaken the Democratic Party.

Good post! K&R
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. And she implied Obama was unqualified.
The fact that she now wants in on his administration is a testament to the intoxicating allure of power.
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redsoxrudy Donating Member (131 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
8. Counterpoint
1. She does want to be president a little too much, but having her on the ticket gives her an incentive to get Obama elected. The havoc she could provide if not on the team scares me.
2. Her negatives are still high but I don't think they will pull people to the polls as much in the VP slot. Obama isn't going to get the anti-immigrant vote that you refered to.
3. This is the one you probably got right except she would be the perfect attack dog on the campaign trail allowing Obama to stay above the fray. As much as I like John Edwards he sucked at this role in '04.
4. I think she could bring Arkansas into play. Polls show her taking this state if she were the nominee and I don't know if she takes it as VP but if she does add it to the states Obama puts in play we could be talking about a blow out for Obama/Clinton.
5. This one scares me the most but I think he can be kept on a leash. As they tell him before hand that the only way Hillary is on the ticket is if you STFU and keep your dick in your pants.
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. #5 -- STFU for 4+ years? Bill Clinton? n/t
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Heather MC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Counter to the Counter
5. This one scares me the most but I think he can be kept on a leash. As they tell him before hand that the only way Hillary is on the ticket is if you STFU and keep your dick in your pants.

Bills Comments Just yesterday proves he can't be leashed

1. She does want to be president a little too much, but having her on the ticket gives her an incentive to get Obama elected. The havoc she could provide if not on the team scares me.

If she is so scary, what good would she be, Obama would come off looking like he was scared or forciably coersed into picking her. he would appear weak.

I believe Obama has known all along who he wants as a VP and it was never her. Look at how well organized his campaign has been. I seriously doubt he doesn't already have his picks in mind, and it ain't her, let her be in the cabinet
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
10. Whitewater was a Hillary scandal. Why do you think Limbaugh (and Rove)...
want to see her as the nominee?
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Left coast liberal Donating Member (889 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
11. Excellent post. And, so damn true. NT
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corkhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
14. I don't think he will pick her, but her behavior will force his hand and he will pick one sooner
after the initial dust up, it will settle down. I hope he picks one soon.
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grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
15. Back-seat presidenting. Hillary and Bill will both engage in it. Obama has enough
to worry about with the mess BushCo will leave behind, he doesn't need to be worrying about what Bill and Hillary are up to every minute of the day.
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IDemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
16. The Constitution does not provide for, and this nation does not need, a tri-presidency
Just say no, Barack.
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rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. Of course there may be one overriding reason for her
Obama would like to win the GE.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. How does Hillary help him do that?
More than Richardson or Webb, say?
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rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Unites the party
Of course, I believe this is decision that Obama will have to make. He will have to weigh the pluses and minuses.
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cottonseed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
19. #6 What do we do with her team?
Edited on Tue Jun-03-08 04:53 PM by cottonseed
Is she going to show up at the campaign offices with Penn, Wolfson, Ickes, Lanny Davis, Begala, Carville, and the rest of her DLC crew? I mean, what kind of leverage does she want here? What exactly will be her job? Would part of the power sharing deal include replacing Dean with Harold Ford? Who knows? There's many, many, many questions that need to be answered with this VP choice. It's not a single person we're talking about here, it's team Clinton.
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
21. #7 - She would need to concede first n/t
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
22. A picture is worth a thousand words...
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