Economist poll on Swiftvets:

[geek tragedy]

http://economist.com/media/pdf/YouGovF.pdf

For those who have seen the ads (likely voters):

Was it right or wrong to run these ads?
Right: 42%
Wrong: 48%

Why are they running these ads?

They just want to set the record straight: 41%
They're trying to help Bush: 52%

For everyone (likely voters):

Do you think George W. Bush used family connections to avoid service in Vietnam?

No, he did not: 23%
Yes, he did: 49%

[KharmaTrain]

1. Question 2...They drew blood

41 percent question Kerry's service record...I'd be curious what that number was prior to this sleeze being oozed.

It's wonderful that more people don't believe the slime than do, but when you deal with a one here and there, these lies have done damage, and these liars continue to tour and spread their bile.

[Placebo]

3. Yea sad times...

they have inflicted damage, minor/insignificant as it may be

[KharmaTrain]

4. We Don't Know The Damage Yet...

The longer these liars continue to lie, the more their sleeze is accepted as fact/legitimate issue. Sure, 40% of the country may favor Bunnypants, but of that segment, now they have a "legitimate" reason to trash Kerry to their moderates and, if Kerry wins the election...will drag this on for his entire administration.

I'm starting to believe it's too late now to do much more than hope these guys shoot themselves in their own feet and neither the Kerry campaign nor the "honest" media have effective exposed these liars with the many facts and conflicts of their interest that is out there.

This "debate" is on what Kerry did and when 35 years ago, not on whose sliming him, why they are and whose behing this...a far, far greater danger to our electoral system.

[Democat]

8. They are raising a lot more money now, Kerry needs to stop them soon

They are just getting started. This was not a hit and run. They will try to take over the entire debate between now and November if Kerry doesn't do something.

The best response is to tie them to Bush and make Bush pay for everything they do. Kerry should never mention the Swift Boat Liars without mentioning Bush.

The only man in America who can stop them is George W. Bush and he isn't going to stop them unless Kerry makes them hurt Bush and make Bush look bad.

Kerry will have to do something, these guys will not go away on their own.

[KharmaTrain]

12. The Response Has Been Tepid

I've been one to call for staying above the fray and measured responses...or no responses, like when this regime is stuck in trying to bail out of its own lies...but I've seen these thugs at work before and they're a lot stronger this time.

This is another chapter in the book of "the politics of personal destruction"...a tactic Rove and his ilk have used repeatedly for the past 30 years and, with the exception of Bill Clinton, few Democrats have countered effective. I'm sensing Kerry is falling into that trap as well that could create a lot of problems, even if he wins the election.

This election won't be a real success and a change in the political dynamic we all really want until not only Bunnypants, but the entire Repugnican hierarchy is removed and discredited.

We know this election centers around the 20 percent or so that isn't as active as we are, and are heavily influenced by impressions and the opinions of others (thus undecided). A year ago, a majority flocked to this regime (as they did post 911), but over the past 6 months have trended to Kerry as both this regime's lies and damage are exposed and Kerry offered a different vision.

Allowing Kerry's image to be smeared or appear tainted can peel off a possible undecided here or there...in an election where every vote will matter. Also, the GOOP knows it can distract Kerry and control the political debate/agenda through thug techniques such as this.

It bothers me when I see others here who cheer that Tweety actually asked someone other than a Democrat a tough question. Have we lowered our self esteem that low???

[Democat]

18. Without a strong response, they will get more aggressive, not less

As you say, the election will turn on 20% (or less) of the voters. If the Swift Boat Liars ad influences even 2%, it could be more than enough to undermine Kerry.

We are fighting for every vote on the ground, but mostly ignoring one of the biggest stories in the media for the last 10 days.

Something needs to be done.

[Karenina]

15. It seems the book

"Unfit for Command" has gone the way of "Cannot be found." :shrug:

[NMDemDist2]

13. very nice sig line there Nation n/t

[quaoar]

17. Roughly corresponds

to the percentage who will vote for Bush. Those same people would probably also say that Kerry is too French.

[sandnsea]

2. 40% love Bush

What's so surprising about that? These ads haven't changed a thing.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

5. Exactly. Preaching to the choir.

All those numbers look like they favor us, if viewed without Chicken Little specs.

[geek tragedy]

6. Exactly.

Funny how that split reflects the position of the candidates in the polls.

Bush has hardcore support of about 40%. Those people are all lining up behind these ads. You can smell the Koolaid on their breath.

[prodigal_green]

14. and this means even a portion of Repugs

don't believe them either.

Actually, I take this as good news.

[Democat]

7. Is there an article that goes along with this?

The numbers don't look too bad to me yet, and I am one of the ones here who yells the loudest about Kerry not doing enough to counter these ads.

We must remember that they are just getting started. If Kerry doesn't fight back and make Bush pay for these ads, like Clinton has suggested, then they are going to run them more and make even worse ads. This is not going away on its own and they money is now pouring into the far right smear machine.

Kerry cannot just keep doing what he's doing. He will need to come back strong and make Bush pay for being involved in a smear on U.S. war veterans.

The most disgusting thing about the poll is that 75% of Republican think running the ads was the right thing to do and only 15% of Republican think John Kerry earned his medals. That means that people on the right are very easily misled by the media and America is in very deep trouble because of that. The corporate media can control a huge percentage of the people in this country, even when the things they say are obvious lies. How do you fight that?

[geek tragedy]

9. Just noticed this . . .

Is it imporant to examine the service records of Kerry AND Bush:

Very or fairly important:

Dems: 56%
Reps: 42%

Hmmmm, methinks the Repubs wouldn't like it if TANG makes its way back into this debate. Sounds like a 527 job to me.

[sandnsea]

10. True true

We need to dig up that web site somebody posted a few days ago and start spreading it around. They do not like it. In fact, two people brought up the Guard stuff at the Bush rally today. The fact that they brought it up at all means it bugs them, ALOT. Good call.

[Democat]

11. More than 30% of Republicans only think Kerry's record should be examined?

75% of Republicans think the ads against Kerry were right.

Only 42% of Republicans think we should look at Bush's record.

So 33% of Republicans support lies about Kerry, but don't want to hear truth about Bush?

Did anyone expect any less from the selfish hypocritical party?

[MoonRiver]

16. Just when I think I've become completely jaded by those scum

some new despicable example of their hypocrisy, such as this, comes out and I'm shocked yet again. I HATE THOSE PUKE BASTARDS!

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: