She cannot be FUCKING serious.........

[Vote2008]

Obama should get NO delegates in Michigan?????

At this point she has to be shitting us and just jacking with our minds.

I guarantee the Super Delegates are thinking Hillary has LOST IT!

Even in my worse idea of how Hillary could act could I imagine she would think that Obama should get NO delegates in Michigan.

She honestly thinks if the Michigan primary was help today Obama would get 0% of the vote?

She is so mad about getting her ass kicked by Obama that she has stopped thinking.

Thank god this is almost over so she stops embarassing herself!

[2rth2pwr]

1. They are not apportioning delegates based on a revote today, where did you hear that?

[Vote2008]

2. I heard she is asking Obama get NO michigan delegates because he got no votes.

[hokies4ever]

9. Yep, you're right. There's a deeper point however.

I think it's clear that everybody thinks that she is insane. There is a more subtle point however. Her argument is essentially that the Rules & Bylaws Committee does not have to power to 'randomly' apportion delegates, which is technically what they would be doing since Obama was not on the ballot. This is a clever strategy for making sure that MI stays in limbo after Saturday, giving her a potential excuse to go straight to the convention.

[truedelphi]

31. And once everyone is at the convention, she may try to

Disrupt her way to power.

Or buy hner way to power?? If she and Bill are worth 109 million, that could certainly help her swing some SD's over to her side of the ledger.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oldskool]

90. Powers of chimp

I think she just wants the illegal unconstitutional powers of
the chimptator. That is why the goal post keeps changing. This
in a time when we need the constitution reinstated. She has no
regard for the democratic party.

[Star80]

91. You know

I was hysterically shut down and shut up when I made a post very much like this.

I asked why hasn't she and other members of congress and the senate moved to remove these powers (indefinite detainment, torture, illegal wiretapping, complete unacountability for _anything_ citing national security or executive priviledge, just to name a few).

I had planned to vote for Hillary. However, I had a feeling the campaign for the nomination would divide to party, and weaken it in the face of the General Election. This would be due to hysterical desperation to take charge with all der chimpenfuhrer's powers as they stand. Could be beneficial position to be in for someone that is actually intelligent.


Welcome to DU!

[grantcart]

3. actually I think that he actually owes her some Illinois delegates out of Michigan by their figuring

[Oregone]

4. I agree with her

But she shouldn't get any either. Its as valid as my family reunion straw poll.

[Smarmie Doofus]

5. There were precincts in NYC where he got zero votes in the primary.

It's metaphysically possible that no one in Michigan would have voted against Clinton.

[Raineyb]

26. I wouldn't go by those precincts.

The Obama votes were undercounted. The offical count does not reflect zero counts for Obama.

Regards

[MonkeyFunk]

58. no, there were no such precincts

early unofficial counts said there were some, but the official counts didn't show any such precincts. obama people like to lie about that, though, to pretend there was something nefarious going on.

[4themind]

6. IMO They don't haveto give HER any delegates at all

according to their rules, the halving of delegations is a MINIMUM punishment according to DNC lawyers, she should be thankful she's getting anything at all, in the middle of the game. This is probably all kabuki theater anyway,if won't allow her to surpass the pledged delegate counts and the superdelegates are under no obligation to take the revised counts into consideration (if they are independent as hillary says they are)

[AllentownJake]

7. Your shocked?

After last Friday nothing she says or does "surprises" me now.

[Vote2008]

48. Good point!

[cbayer]

8. It would be best if you could substantiate this claim.

Otherwise, it's just flamebait.

[hokies4ever]

10. Wake up from your political coma

This actually isn't the first thread to discuss it. There's another thread today (forget which one, but you can use The Google) that included a link and some quotes from a memo from Hillary's campaign. Their argument is essentially that the R&BC does not have the power to apportion delegates, which is what they would have to do in Michigan since, technically speaking, Obama didn't get any delegates there because his name was not on the ballot.

[cbayer]

20. Excuse me?

Way to get someone to stop reading beyond your title.

[roguevalley]

49. you should because knowledge will help you

[cbayer]

67. I am just asking for something showing that this has actually been proposed.

I think the idea is totally unacceptable. Although the Clinton campaign may have stated that she should receive all of the MI delegates because Obama was not on the ballot, I find that notion absurd. I can't find anything indicating that the campaign has actually said that and no one has given me a link to show it is true.

I will be the first to say it makes not sense.

[Barrymores Ghost]

56. Your willful ignorance is YOUR problem, no one else's. n/t

[mcctatas]

11. here ya go...

"Under the Clinton campaign's proposal, Obama would receive no pledged delegates from Michigan because he removed his name from the ballot when the state's primary was ruled illegal."

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=fdce32c4-8e50-477d-aef4-b82d46e915a2

[Blondiegrrl]

19. "... when the state's primary was ruled illegal."

Funny how so many Clinton supporters like to gloss over this fact.

[cbayer]

27. Thank you.

That's the interpretation of the writer. It would be absurd to apportion the delegates by vote in a state where Obama was not on the ballot. I would still like to see something indicating that Clinton really feels she should get all of the delegates from Michigan. I am not saying it is not true, I just haven't seen it.

Jeesh. You can't even ask for information around here without getting jumped on. (That is not directed at you, necessarily).

[hokies4ever]

46. Quit crying and stick a pacifier in it

Not even Hillary whines as much as you do. Grow some skin. :rofl:

[cbayer]

64. I am not sure what your deal is and I am not sure I really want to know.

I just asked for a link showing that the Clinton campaign had actually suggested that she be awarded all of the Michigan delegates because Obama wasn't on the ticket. That idea is absurd to me and, if the campaign is actually suggesting that, I would reject the idea completely.

So far, no one has provided that information and I can't find it anywhere. I could be wrong, but I just wanted to see it.

My guess would be that you are attacking me because you assume that I am a Clinton supporter and therefore a worthy target of your scorn and malice.

[hokies4ever]

68. The Google

I enjoy giving out intellectual handouts, so here you go.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/30/clinton-camps-argument-no-michigan-delegates-for-you/

[anigbrowl]

22. You would have to be ignoring the news completely this week not to have heard this.

[patrice]

12. A person who voted for the IWR because she planned to run for pResident; why are you so surprised?

[Aloha Spirit]

13. Yep, as Begala put it, by taking his name off the ballot, Obama was saying he didn't want any of

their non-existent delegates, so he shouldn't get any.

[cascadiance]

50. So she wants to disenfranchise 40% of the voters that clearly wanted to vote AGAINST her!

when they voted uncommitted and had the CHOICE to vote for her and DID NOT! Making those votes count for Hillary is STEALING their votes and DISENFRANCHISING them! YES, I AM YELLING!

[Aloha Spirit]

70. That is precisely what she wants to argue, her best case. I just hope our side has somebody as smart

as you to make your points.

[frylock]

75. begala is a fucking idiot

[MonkeyFunk]

14. He got no votes

why should he get delegates?

it's absurd that you guys think he SHOULD get delegates for a race he didn't run in.

[Blondiegrrl]

17. ... almost as absurd as thinking a bogus election should be

factored into the primary race. Whatever happened to following the rules?

[MannyGoldstein]

18. As Absued As, Say, Giving Clinton Delegates For A Non-Race She Ran In

I held a primary at work today. We demand to seat our delegates.

[george_maniakes]

21. I think its absurd for hillary to get votes in a primary she pledged not to participate in...

and said wouldnt count for much. However , for democrats in general a compromise would be wise, no? Or they can fight till august. He'll just be more wounded, and hillary will be the next lieberman. Either way obama wins.

[Orsino]

28. It's not a race when only one candidate sneaks onto the ballot.

It's therefore absurd to declare a winner.

[muryan]

32. Then what do you do with the uncommitted delegates?

They obviously don't want Hillary, and many of them intended to vote for Obama...they just couldn't

[SoonerPride]

37. The want to disenfranchise the uncommitted people.

They cannot now commit to anyone, so they must always and forever be uncommitted, even if by the time the convention rolls around they decide to commit to someone, that is verboten!

Nein!

You must cast your vote for Hillary or no one!

[SoonerPride]

33. Neither did Hillary. They didn't have an election.

But you knew that.

Hel even Hillary knew that "this election they're having in Michigan isn't going to coutn for anything."

So we're back to square one.

Neither candidate got a vote or a delegate.

It's a draw.

[mudesi]

35. That's it. You guys have lost it.

Where is your self respect?

Jesus.

[CakeGrrl]

43. Yeah, right, as if he would take his name off the ballot just so he wouldn't gain any delegates

:crazy:

What sense can that possibly make unless you ignore the fact that both Obama and Edwards were living up to the agreement that the MI primary wasn't going to count...and Clinton should have followed suit had she the integrity to do so.

[barack the house]

44. Obama campaigned to encourge folks to vote uncommitted.

[barack the house]

45. Conyers campaigned to encourge folks to vote uncommitted for Obama he knew something was up .

[roguevalley]

55. and only a totalitarian would believe she gets ALL the votes in a race

she agreed not to run in but did anyway.

[sellitman]

61. Chew on this...

If another country had an election were not everyone was on the ballot or where no one could campaign. Would we recognize it?

No Effin way, but Hillary wants these to count.

She sounds like a Tin Pot Dictator more than a Democrat and your support of this sham is pathetic.

[bowens43]

73. It's absurd to think that hillary should get delegates from

a state where there was no contest. Only a moron would think that that was reasonable.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

78. Hillary: "It's clear this election isn't going to count for anything."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/11/AR2007101100859.html

[cali]

85. hillary should get no delegates. She signed on to a pledge

saying she wouldn't participate at all in MI. Leaving your name on the ballot is de facto evidence of her lying and cheating. In FL, by law, it's impossible to take your name off the ballot unless you drop out of the race for nominee completely.

Hillary cheated. She should be punished.

[TahitiNut]

15. I agree 100%. There are NO MICHIGAN DELEGATES legitimately pledged to Obama.

That's because there are NO LEGITIMATE MICHIGAN DELEGATES AT ALL!!! :grr:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6159157

Talk about BIG LIES? It's insane.

[NotThisTime]

30. Therein lies your point: "NO LEGITIMATE MICHIGAN DELEGATES AT ALL!!!"

Zero percent of nothing is still freaking nothing, and that's exactly what she should get

[BlooInBloo]

16. I assume that's the sort of "offer" that one makes when one does NOT want to make a deal.

[Arrowhead2k1]

23. Exactly what I was thinking.

She's not looking for any reasonable solutions at this point. She's pulling every dirty trick in the book to get to the convention because she's "in it to stea... I mean, win it!".

[roguevalley]

59. if you string this out, something might 'happen'. it will be June after all.

:sarcasm:

[TahitiNut]

24. She's got a hostage and she's making demands.

She's getting campaign advice from Sheriff Bart.





Again.



:eyes:

[AZ Criminal JD]

25. This is not just Clinton's opinion

The attorneys for the DNC released a memo yesterday which said the same thing. The Rules Committee can't give delegates to Obama. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PRIMARY_SCRAMBLE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2008-05-27-23-36-25

[Raineyb]

29. They'd better do something

because you cannot tell candidates a state won't count, ask them to take their name off the ballot then penalize them for doing what you asked.

It's equally ridiculous to give delegates to a candidate who promised to remove her name from the ballot but left it on anyway.

Regards

[Triana]

36. Damn right. TOTALLY unfair to those voters AND to Obama. n/t

[stillcool]

51. that poster is wrong...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/28/AR2008052803093.html
DNC Lawyers Rule Against Clinton

Democratic National Committee lawyers wrote in a memo that the two states must forfeit at least half of their delegates as punishment for holding primaries earlier than DNC rules allowed. Clinton (N.Y.) prevailed in both contests, although the Democratic candidates had agreed not to campaign in Florida and Michigan, and Sen. Barack Obama removed his name from the Michigan ballot.
------------------
DNC lawyers found that the Rules and Bylaws Committee acted within its rights by voiding the Florida and Michigan results, after Michigan moved its primary to Jan. 15 and Florida moved its to Jan. 29. They did so in violation of party rules that called for state parties that did not receive waivers from the DNC to schedule primaries no earlier than Feb. 5.

[stillcool]

47. That is wrong.

first of all the article you cite makes no mention of the lawyers. However the following is a link to what the lawyers did say...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/28/AR2008052803093.html
DNC Lawyers Rule Against Clinton

Democratic National Committee lawyers wrote in a memo that the two states must forfeit at least half of their delegates as punishment for holding primaries earlier than DNC rules allowed. Clinton (N.Y.) prevailed in both contests, although the Democratic candidates had agreed not to campaign in Florida and Michigan, and Sen. Barack Obama removed his name from the Michigan ballot.

Per the article you linked to..

Some have suggested a fair solution would be to give Obama the uncommitted delegates from Michigan, but the Clinton campaign maintains Obama should not get any of the state's pledged delegates.

[AZ Criminal JD]

89. Try a reading comprehension course

The part about the lawyers is in paragraphs 9 to 14. Maybe going down that far in an article is too much for you.

[Triana]

34. Yea I'm sure THAT'S the "will of the voters" innit? NONE of them would have voted Obama if...

...his name was on the ballot? Ha! It's the will of HILLARY, not the voters. And it's shameful.

[Ravy]

38. I think the DNC lawyers agreed that was the case.

It should be interesting tomorrow. It would be totally unfair to give all of MI delegates to Clinton.

[barack the house]

39. It is mathematically improbable that all the uncommitted were for Obama, I mean detroit really.

[4themind]

53. Well the DNC lawyer's position was that

they could be argued as being votes for whichever candidates were not on the ballot. Biden, Richaradson, Edwards and Obama, and as long as they all agree to "release" their delegates to obama, maybe that could be a "plausible" reason in their eyes. Given that the primary wasn'tsanctioned it also seems to be their position that the delegates can be apportioned in anyway the DNC pleases, whether it's to eliminate all of them, split them 50/50(seating the delegates but not recognizing the vote from the unsanctioned primary, or recognizing senator clintons votes and giving obama the rest, among other options. The clintons may just need to settle for what they can get, in the middle of the game.

[Cha]

40. Did she say it on an airplane?

[Oleladylib]

41. Golly gee ..you won't be happy with Prez McCain either I'll bet.

[barack the house]

42. When Pfleger says entitlement, this is the prime example he told no lies really.

[zulchzulu]

52. I've documented the NUCLEAR BOMB of evidence that would skewer Hillary's little charade

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/zulchzulu/203

She can't escape from her own actions that have been recorded.

[zulchzulu]

57. Hillary on Michigan: "It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything,"

It's in the above link.

Game way fucking over, Hillary. STOP LYING.

[Canuckistanian]

54. Because 100% of Michigan loves them some HRC

They ALL think Hillary is the the bee's knees and Obama is some neophyte from Podunkville.

Sorry, scratch that.

LOWER Podunkville.

[zulchzulu]

63. That's why Uncommitted got 238,168 votes or 40.1%

Hillary "beat" a nonexistant cloud of vapor by 12%...

[Canuckistanian]

74. Cloud of Vapor '08!

I'm a Vaporbot myself.

[Perry Logan]

62. "no candidate in the history of presidential elections has ever conceded prior to the Convention...

...with the amount of support that Clinton has."

You poor Bammers. You just don't get it, do you?

[zulchzulu]

65. When Hillary said ""It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything,"...

...when referring to Michigan, what did she mean?

:rofl:

[george_maniakes]

66. Is hillarys really small chance of winning this thing worth dragging it out until august?

Do you get it?

[Buzz Clik]

69. Her claims that "Every vote must ... be .... counted!" is, of course, unadulterated bullshit.

"Count my votes, ignore the rest."

[progetto]

71. The MI primary is hopelessly messed up.

Just giving this vote to Hillary is a joke.

The only fair thing to do is divide up the delegates 50/50. Sort of matches the outcome of a lot of other primaries where the net delegate advantage is minimal.

[meow mix]

72. hillary clinton is a total asshole

i really hate her

[undeterred]

76. yeah, she is totally selfish and unreasonable

[billyoc]

77. She has nothing left to lose, may as well shoot for the loon.

ah, moon. :hi:

[Fly by night]

79. There are four ways to tell an ex-con (in my experience).

They smoke like chimneys.

They have bad teeth.

They have too many tattoos.

They use the word "fuck" in every sentence.


Where did you do your time?

[Vote2008]

80. I only have one trait. But sounds like you loved prison!

[Fly by night]

82. Fortunately, I got four years of "paper" for my offense,...

... 18 months of which were in a federal Bureau of Prisons halfway house.
But then, if you had been around here a while, you'd know that.

Be sure to get your teeth cleaned.

[Yossariant]

81. Anyone who thinks that a candidate who is not on the ballot should be "entitled" to votes

is nuttier than a fruitcake.

[against all enemies]

83. No votes should count, flawed election.

[iamthebandfanman]

87. anybody who thinks they should count

after being told before the whole process began that they wouldnt...

[DesEtoiles]

She IS fucking nuts at this point - and she would be a HORRIBLE president, that is clear.

[avenger64]

84. She's standing her ground ...

.... go Clinton! To the convention!

[Phred42]

88. The Facts Don't matter. Not Reality based. Scorch & Burn.... Sound Familiar?

[Phred42]

86. The Clintons and there supporters are acting like a Woman getting divorced

This Election was Hillary's to loose - and she did.

now the Cinton's are acting like (and I am aware that I'll get taken to the woodshed for this - HOWEVER) The Clintons and there supporters are acting like a Woman getting divorced
- Out of her mind
- totally self absorbed
- lashing out in stupid ways
- she whats EVERYONE to feel as bad as she does therefore no intention of ending the pain for those around her
- Economically suicidal - Would prefer to see the Lawyers get all of the money rather than give anything up.
- Just wants to hurt 'the other guy' in any way possible.
- drag out the pain for everyone - as long as possible


It's obvious that the Clinton's have decided that if THEY can't control the PArty - then NO ONE can and they will do their best to destroy it