I know I risk Flamebait, but. I challenge any Hillary Supporter to prove Obama or I am a Misogynist

[CaptJasHook]

I look forward to your logic.

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. Prove that you're not, sweetie.

[Forkboy]

2. Well, that's that then.

:crazy:

[Swamp Rat]

6. Forkboy, prove you are NOT a Photoshopper.

;) :D :popcorn:

[cliffordu]

7. Swamp Rat, Prove that you're not a popcorn eater.

[Forkboy]

16. Ok

:P

[Swamp Rat]

22. The night is black, Without a moon

The air is thick and still
The vigilantes gather on
The lonely torch lit hill

Features distorted in the flickering light
The faces are twisted and grotesque
Silent and stern in the sweltering night
The mob moves like demons possessed
Quiet in conscience, calm in their right
Confident their ways are best

The righteous rise
With burning eyes
Of hatred and ill-will
Madmen fed on fear and lies
To beat and burn and kill

They say there are strangers who threaten us
In our immigrants and infidels
They say there is strangeness too dangerous
In our theaters and bookstore shelves
That those who know what's best for us
Must rise and save us from ourselves

Quick to judge
Quick to anger
Slow to understand
Ignorance and prejudice
And fear walk hand in hand...

:thumbsup:

[Forkboy]

35. Ah, a classic album.

I was so into them when I was younger, before my punk/thrash side took over completely. :)

That makes me want to hear that again. I still have the album, but no working turntable. x(

[Swamp Rat]

41. I can relate

By the time "Moving Pictures" came out, I could play most of Alex Lifeson's parts. I stopped listening to them after Power Windows, as I went on to study 'classical music' in college, but I recently felt nostalgic. Unfortunately, all my recordings are on vinyl too (the cassettes rotted) and Katrina ruined my turntable, but I found this Internet station:

http://www.rushradio.org

I downloaded a free MP3 recorder and proceeded to record almost every song they created (some are slightly clipped, oh well, what the hell). Now I have about 140 Rush songs. I still listen to the Internet stream too, since my other computer with most of my MP3s is still in the shop waiting for a logic board.

[The Doctor.]

105. Funny...

We must all be nearly the same age abouts. I went from Beatles, to Zepplin, to Motorhead, to Rush, to Black Flag, to Skinny Puppy... a similar progression with many of the same offshoots I'm sure.

My thrash days are long since past, but Rush is pretty timeless.

[Forkboy]

107. Pretty much.

My musical tastes have really exploded in the last ten years now. I still listen to some thrash here and there, but now my need for fast stuff is scratched by black metal, which is basically proto-thrash in the vein of Bathory or Venom (except the ambient black metal, which is slow and low and equally neat).

But yeah, the progression has been very similar. Just listened to both Motorhead and Skinny Puppy the other night. Also Frank Sinatra and Neil Diamond...it was a great day of drinking and music. :D

[The Doctor.]

110. Damn...

Throw me some Frank, Bach, and Watermelon Slim to mellow me out after a day of KMFDM, Dilinger Escape Plan, and VNV Nation. Hell, maybe some Björk in between...

Been a while since I listened to Frank. You must like Harry Connick JR. and Jamie Cullum. If you haven't heard Cullum yet, the kid is just smashing; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTxGkB46IZY

I'm always shocked to find anyone else that can enjoy SP let alone listen to them. For those people, if you haven't done Teargarden with headphones on, you're in for somethin' special.

Alway great to meet a fellow eclectic. :hi: :toast:

I need more stuff for running and swords, watcha' got?

[Forkboy]

113. I can't listen to the vid at the moment.

I'm in the process of hooking up new speakers to the stereo (blew one the other night with Ministry cranked) and I've decided to hook the PC up through the stereo as well in the process instead of using the tinny speakers. So at the moment I have no PC sound. And it's too hot in here today for me to do something that will surely aggravate me. :)

I did save the vid to my YouTube favorites and will check it out when I'm set up. I have a little Harry Connick on CD, just a compilation of tunes, but nice stuff. I love the crooners.

I've been into SP since Cleanse Fold and Manipulate. I'm a big fan of harsh noise (try bands like Wolf Eyes, Merzbow or To Live And Shave In L.A.....mega harsh shit. Not even sure music is the right term for it). If anything SP is getting kind of pleasant to listen to on the newer stuff. The live DVD for Greater Right of the Wrong is amazing.

Here's a handful of stuff to check out at your leisure. :)

Porest (I'm pretty sure just listening to these guys gets you put on Homeland Security's watchlist)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9FyYZvGldY
and the song "Let's Roll" on their Myspace page is awesome! ("We are all Muhommads now!")
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=114596408&MyToken=46bbff41-fded-4bb7-a25e-3c1978c7f957

5ive (so far my pick for CD of the year)
The song Gulls is the new track. Just two dudes jamming.
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=67765019&MyToken=46bbff41-fded-4bb7-a25e-3c1978c7f957

Boris (another CD high on my list for the year)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_GgowniQWk

Old Time Relijun (fun stuff to jump around to)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOVVWOK5AMY

And lastly, the most disturbing video ever made. A friend saw it and exclaimed after, "That's a cry for help!" Best review ever! If you're sensitive to the topic of suicide...skip it. Seriously.
Khanate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v-06_X6k3k

You may like all of these...or none of these. :D

[The Doctor.]

114. Whoo-hoo! Thanks!

Neat stuff!

Boris does interesting stuff with syncopation. I think I heard an interview with 5ive on NPR... aren't they the guys from the ME? Puppy did a "most disturbing ever made" video for Warlock; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLUJ99LpoQQ It's another great one for headphones, and I recommend creating your own imagery.

Thanks for the stuff, it's faved up.

[Forkboy]

115. 5ive is from Boston.

There was a boy band with the same name, but obviously not the same talent. :)

Ha....already have the Worlock vid in my faves! ;)

SP is made for sitting in the darkness with headphones on. The first time I did acid was to Rabies. :yoiks:

[The Doctor.]

104. One of my favorite tunes of all time.

Just love the 'ooo-ooo-ooooh... OOOOOOOH!' part. (gets lost in translation to text)

This is another fav of the same meme;

Our time has come, age of the hammerhead
This is our mission; to be the darlings of God
Too late for silence too late for anything
It's all too much for me it's roots go down to deep for me.
Our punishing fire; an animal frenzy
These hammerhead people; they know what danger is for
You let them in, and now there everywhere
If it's mineral or vegetable it's back a little up a little


Shot push hammerheads bold and resolute
Marching balancing in too far to go back
Yes yes hammerheads swimming kissing
We are big and clever and we don't know anything

Purification by emersion in our filthy demon seed
We know the only things you like are paranoid sex and childish greed
Our own worst enemies; they hold us to our word
Look at the beast inside us gonna get us this time but good
Whether we pull it out or push it in it all ends up the same
You know a hammerhead is a hammerhead by any other name



Onwards hammerheads, bright and dangerous
Jumping running in the field and factory
God save hammerheads, keeping going
We are sleek and special and we're sure of something

Blessed are the airmen
Blessed are the shit kickers
Blessed are the jackhammers
Blessed is the big damage
Blessed are the faith healers
Blessed are the moon walkers
Blessed are the snake people
Blessed are the heat seekers

[WeDidIt]

4. You can't prove a negative.

Checkmate.

[Abacus]

102. Prove it.

I've always found that posit nonsensical. Anything testable can be proven or disproven.

[The Doctor.]

106. Not true...

One can prove that it is "not snowing" by simply going outside... that's a "negative" that can be proven because it is an ascertainable state.

One cannot prove that "It never snowed in Panama", because that would require an absolute and unattainable record.

You can prove that you "weren't in NY last Sunday" simply by proving that you were somewhere else.
You cannot 'prove' that you were "never in NY" without a verifiable daily record of where you have been throughout your entire life. One can only take your word for it.

Asking someone to prove they 'are not' sexist is just such a negative that cannot be proven. The poster can give dozens of examples of calling for equality, but that might only prove that they know how to act non-sexist.

[Abacus]

108. That's what I said.

The first case in each of your examples are testable and therefore provable. The second cases are not testable because useful data is either non-existent or not available and so not provable.

I wasn't making any comments on the OP, just the bit about proving negatives; in practical terms, I agree with you on that point, though a better understanding of the mind and a consensus definition of sexism may indeed allow such traits to be testable.

[CaptJasHook]

109. Agreed. I should restate the challenge.

Perhaps:

Provide evidence that justifies your accusations of calling myself or Obama a Misogynist. When you do so, provide your definition of misogyny.

Mine is the literal: Hater of women. Or perhaps the dictionary (fancy that) version: a misanthrope who dislikes women in particular.

[The Doctor.]

111. Right, but putting the onus on the subject to 'prove' he is 'not' sexist

is a virtual impossibility. Therefore in order to 'disprove the negative', one can only 'prove the positive', while 'proving the negative' would require a great deal of subjective input.

"He's been a nice guy who supports equality, therefore he's not sexist" - is still an opinion, not 'proof of the negative'. Neither is "I'm not sexist because I believe in equality." 'proof'.


"He's said that "women are inferior to men", therefore he's sexist" - is much less subjective, and essentially proves the positive, because the disparate view is demonstrably based on sex. That doesn't require a consensus to say that "sex-based judgement of asexual qualities is 'sexist'.", as the criteria is logically consistent.

I'm not saying that 'proving he is not sexist' isn't possible, it just requires a great deal more subjective approach (as you outlined above).

[CaptJasHook]

13. How would one go about doing that over the internet?

[The_Casual_Observer]

15. The same question applies to you.

[CaptJasHook]

24. Because Hillaryis44 people keep calling us Misogynists, I assume they must

have some criteria or method for being able to determine I am a misogynist.

I am asking for their method.

[pnwmom]

29. I'm not in the Hillary camp, and I'm not calling all or even most Obama

people sexist or misogynists.

But there HAS been a loud minority engaging in taunts and name-calling that are sexist and/or misogynistic.

[CaptJasHook]

37. True, but please admit that it does go both ways.

[pnwmom]

79. I have never seen any DUer use the N word with regard to Obama,

but I have seen similar words used against HRC countless times.

I have also seen her mocked for her feminine (or not feminine enough) physical traits, but I've never seen him mocked on DU for racially based traits.

Obviously, it would be just as inexcusable to attack Obama in that fashion. I just haven't seen it happening.

[CaptJasHook]

80. Fair enough. However, I have been called a number of things that I find offensive.

I have also heard allusions to Obama supporters being rapists, gang rapists, pigs and dogs of all sorts, p***ks, ass holes, etc. Stereo-typical and offensive comments about men.

And Obama has been accused of the Race card and had any number of innuendo used against him. They may have not used the N word, but they have certainly pointed to race. Regardless, at least we can both accept that it is unacceptable.

[pnwmom]

85. I don't remember coming across you before,

so the problem I'm talking about hasn't been coming from you.

You sound like a reasonable and fair person. Our only disagreement is whether we should ignore the name-callers or not.

[RichardRay]

32. I am not a misogynist....

I am a male product of our society, so I sometimes exhibit sexist behavior.

There, by the 'standards of proof' that seem to hold on this topic I've established my point.

[dionysus]

50. ah yes, demands to prove a negative.... weak...

[LSK]

62. Saddam, prove you do not have any WMD

:eyes:

[Buzz Clik]

86. Hell, I'd love to prove that I am.

Just prompt me...

[msallied]

94. Prove a negative, eh? You're a moran.

[pnwmom]

3. Flamebait? No worries.

You're likable enough.

:shrug:

[rucky]

10. you've proven how he can be smug and dismissive

and there are plenty of quotes to show how Hillary can be, as well.

[CaptJasHook]

17. Thank you Nor'wester. I'm just trying to figure out how a term usually used for

rapists, pimps, wife beaters and Neandrethals became word-du-jour for anyone who disagrees with Hillary.

I am confused as to why any DUer can propagate that claim on a website designed for Progressives.

[pnwmom]

23. It hasn't. People who disagree with Hillary are . . .

people who disagree with Hillary.

But many of the people who call her C--, Sk-k, and other similar words -- and it happens right here on DU -- ARE misogynists.

[CaptJasHook]

27. Certainly unacceptable, and I have called people on it.

But I and many others have been accused of misogyny and sexism by radical posters. Obama has been also accused. So I ask that these posters explain their logic.

[pnwmom]

33. If they're saying that about you and you haven't engaged

in those types of attacks, then they're wrong.

But I see a lot of denial around here as to whether these attacks are taking place at all -- and that's wrong, too. The sexism has been all too real.

It's been unnerving to me and others to see how far we still have to go.

[CaptJasHook]

39. But doesn't responding to cretins like that only encourage them.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I assume that those attacks are often if not always called out and alerted. Most of those get deleted or locked. Doesn't that show that the DU system works?

On a public forum we cannot always catch or chastise such people. And they certainly won't take the time for us to explain why their language is hurtful. So why not Alert and ignore, and then move on to the reasonable people.

Can anyone point to a respected member of the DU community that uses that type of language against Hillary?

[pnwmom]

77. No, almost by definition.

No one would be generally respected if s/he used that kind of language against Hillary. But too many fervent supporters of other candidates have.

I think it's important to respond to those attacks and not ignore them -- just as if people were making racially-based attacks against Obama. If someone were to call him the N word, or to make fun of his skin color or hair texture, I suspect you wouldn't say to just "alert and ignore." But if you would, I'd disagree. I'd alert AND respond -- the same as I do when someone mocks HRC for her feminine (or not feminine enough) appearance.

[The Doctor.]

112. No, it doesn't always.

I recently excoriated an Obama person for saying something awful with the word 'c***'. It wasn't directed at Clinton, and he didn't come around right away, but shortly thereafter he apologized and said he was just angry and would try to refrain.

He was not a "respected DU member", and I even suspected him of being a troll, but he said the right thing and I've no reason to doubt him at this point.

Meanwhile, only a small handful (2 that I can think of) of 'respected members' have come close to unapologetic use of the word 'bitch', but even then they justify in detail why they are so spiteful.

[AZBlue]

73. Being rude doesn't equal being sexist or misogynistic.

I really wish people would learn the definition of words before they start using them.

[anonymous171]

5. According to Ferraro, Obama is a misogynist because: The shoulder-brush and sweetiegate

[cliffordu]

8. And, he has skin darker than she does.

[CaptJasHook]

31. Stay on topic please.

It does no good to inject the question of race.

[cliffordu]

42. I didn't, Ferraro did.

[CaptJasHook]

14. But does that prove he hates women?

It may prove that he can be a smart ass... but a misogynist?

[polmaven]

18. Maybe not misogynist, but

more than a smart ass. Sexist is more like it. Phrases like "out come the claws" and "sweetie" are demeaning and should be kept out of his lexicon. He is sometimes not very good at hiding his feeling of male superiority. Even to the point of "holding" her seat while she stood after a debate. Would he have done that with a male counterpart? I highly doubt it.

These are small things to some, and "niceties" to others, but to many of us, they are sexist and insulting.

[Alexander]

20. Tell the doctors in your asylum to increase your dosage.

It's clear you are still having Hillucinations.

[polmaven]

38. That is not even worth a response.

Grow up.

[CaptJasHook]

60. Such an elegant response. Thanks for adding to the discussion.

[Doityourself]

25. Ha Ha..if stood up and didn't hold her seat...some would pitch a bitch and call him ungentlemanly, &

a neanderthal with no home training..lmao..he can't win..can he?

[polmaven]

34. Maybe other sexists would react that way

but not the vast majority of feminist women, ...Oh, wait, I keep forgetting... "feminist" is suddenly no longer a Democratic trait.

Women, my friend, are perfectly capable of standing without knocking over or falling out of their chairs.

[Doityourself]

47. Let that heavy chip fall off your shoulder sweetie..you will feel much lighter and better.. Yes, as

a female, I am perfectly capable of standing on my own without knocking over or falling out of my chair. But I certainly don't think, a man is a sexist or looks down upon me because he holds my chair for me.

When I attend board meetings, male board members and even a few male employees have pulled out my chair for and I'm the overseer of all things, and completely in control of their fates..but do I hold it against them, or say hey back off, I am woman, hear me roar? Hell no. They know who's boss and they know where I stand. You can be the boss and in control without being all touchy and paranoid about why is he holding my chair..awww lawd..what is I gonna do, Ceilly?

Btw, would you be offended if a man holds your chair for you on a date, or is it only in political and/or business circles where you are offended?

[polmaven]

54. I see absolutely no reason

for a man to hold me chair for me at any time! I am capable of taking care of myself.

[Doityourself]

56. Lmao..okay sweetie. You do things your way and I'll do things mine. Aint America grand!

[CaptJasHook]

64. But would you be offended?

I get that you (and every other woman) can take of yourself. But what about kindness and politeness?

[polmaven]

71. Yes, I would be...and have been offended.

It is really time to realize that women are not the helpless creatures men considered us to be when that "tradition" started. We are even winning NASCAR races now. I need you to treat me as an equal...not be "kind" or "polite". I am not your frail grandmother. I am your EQUAL!

[CaptJasHook]

72. I never said you were not my equal. I would even go so far as to say

that my wife so far exceeds me as Denali to my Mt. Hood.

It is more a matter of pleasantries.

Do you advocate shared restrooms? Male on female fist fights? An end to female and male support groups? Where does equality meet respect for differences?

[Doityourself]

82. Exactly.

[CaptJasHook]

87. I'm still interested in your answer. If you would

Where does equality intersect with differences? Are you talking about flatworld?

I am interested in a world where all are equal under the laws of physics, economics, power and politics. However I am not so interested in a world where we don't treat other with the respect afforded out individuality.

That said, because of the method our minds catagorize and project, we cannot seem to escape the trap of comparative stereotyping. How does feminism confront this difficulty?

[Doityourself]

89. I believe you mean to address Pol..not me

[CaptJasHook]

97. Sorry, Thank you. I will repost.

[CaptJasHook]

98. If you could take the time. I have few questions.

Where does equality intersect with differences? Are you talking about flatworld?

I am interested in a world where all are equal under the laws of physics, economics, power and politics. However I am not so interested in a world where we don't treat other with the respect afforded out individuality.

That said, because of the method our minds catagorize and project, we cannot seem to escape the trap of comparative stereotyping. How does feminism confront this difficulty? Or at least your understanding of feminism.

[reflection]

101. I will continue

to hold open doors for older women, give them my seats if there are none left, and hold chairs for them. It's a nice thing to do. To me, it's not about viewing women as weak or second class, it's about celebrating women and thanking them. In addition, I also do all these things for older gentlemen. It's just courtesy.

[ieoeja]

69. As a man and an Obama supporter, just let me say...

... that I agree with you 100% on this issue.

I have always felt that sort of thing was demeaning.

Just look at who else you help sit: small children, injured people, people whose disabilities make it difficult for them to do it themselves. At some point these men have to, HAVE TO, start putting these women into that same helpless category.

Oh, sure, Ms CEO may be the boss and all that. "But she is still a frail little lady who can't open a door or sit down on her own," is how these men think.

Ironically, these same men are usually so stupid about women that they don't know when they really SHOULD make allowances. Like entering the elevator BEFORE the woman so she doesn't feel trapped. These guys let the women enter first -- that being another one of their quaint little rules -- never realizing just how uncomfortable many women feel about that sort of thing. It's like they have never had a female friend in their life.

[Chisox08]

95. At one point pulling out the chair for a lady was calledbeing a gentleman

now it is sexist. Stop making mountains out of molehills.

[Bluenorthwest]

81. Tell you what...

The holding of the chair is a symbol of standing in protection and in service. This may suprise you, but many people who are in a position of power, especially those who would express workplace status as being 'completley in control of their fates', are often the recipients of gestures of servility and declarations lower status. Yeah, even men. The boss gets their ass kissed. Those that let their ass be kissed that is, ie the weak sort. The kind who are not suprevising but 'overseeing all'.
If I were in a meeting with a person of either gender or both who allowed such fawning behavior from their underlings I would not have a favorable impression. It is the same as having someone else serve you in the presence of others. It demeans both parties. It is not about the gender, but about the status difference in the work place.

Why would having your ass kissed make you say back off hear me roar? You are in fact doing that by having your chair held for you by the help. In an executive position, in my opinion, it is a choice that is naff at best. By which I mean rather tacky and not really appropriate. Passive aggression is still aggression.

[CaptJasHook]

63. Feminist, yes. Misandronist, no. I do not wish hate of any sort in my party.

[IsItJustMe]

74. I would call that courteous. You think too much.

[polmaven]

75. I will ask the question again..

Would he do that with a male counterpart? If not, is there no need to be courteous to them?

[2rth2pwr]

52. Pitch a bitch? wtf!!?

[Doityourself]

57. Yes, pitch a bitch,Waldo!

[polmaven]

61. Exactly,

WTF????

[Doityourself]

83. Yeah, exactly. It's a turn of a phrase..so come down off your cross...

[LisaM]

28. I was conflicted on his holding her seat for her

It seemed like a nice thing to do, but the image certainly stuck with me, and so I eventually concluded that there was another level at play. What if she had held his seat? The flak would have been enormous.

[Doityourself]

49. Wht amazes me is that some actually believe he held her chair because he looks down on her & don't

see her as an equal on the stage.

I say Hogwash!

He was being a gentleman...and in this day and age, I say it's a good thing.

[CaptJasHook]

30. Thank you for not equating that with misogyny.

I can see how many women would find those phrases problematic, even intentional or unintentional sexism.

Thank you for being rational and caring enough to answer. However, I am still waiting for the extremists to justify the misogyny charge.


Peace

[pnwmom]

26. No, just dismissive. n/t

[rucky]

9. Prove you're not.

and while you're at it, show us exactly how you're not hiding any WMDs

And quit posting in your underwear.

[IronLionZion]

11. What? So you don't use gender as the motivating factor in supporting a candidate?

SEXIST!!!

Liberated and open-minded progressivism means supporting a candidate mainly because of her gender and calling anyone who disagrees with you a "sexist".


:sarcasm:

:rofl:

[George_Bonanza]

12. Have you ever enjoyed pornographic paraphernalia?

[CaptJasHook]

21. How would that make me a hater of women?

I understand that industry exploits women's bodies. There are women who do that as well as men.

I understand that the depths of the industry commit unforgiveable actions.

But how does someone getting excited by bodies make one a sexist or a hater of women?

Does that make anyone who admires the Venus de Milo a misogynist? How about the David?

[George_Bonanza]

40. I wasn't being serious. Don't worry, your porn-loving doesn't make you a misogynist =)

[CaptJasHook]

43. Funny????

:wtf:

[Bucky]

19. I can prove this with only one question.

Have you stopped beating your wife?

[CaptJasHook]

36. Thank you for taking this seriously. Your infantile humor is lost on me.

[Jersey Devil]

44. I, for one, always return the toilet seat to the down position

There can be no stronger proof!

[Doityourself]

53. What? You don't think women are capable of putting down the toilet seat ourselves! To hell with

you, Mr. Anti-female!

:sarcasm:

[Writer]

45. Why do you want us to prove that you're a misogynist?

That sounds sado-masochistic. I could prove THAT at least.

;)

[Perry Logan]

46. I can tell by the smell.

[Forkboy]

51. That would be your breath blowing back in your face.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

48. He's a large black man who's viciously savaged a blond white woman.

Why do you hate women?

[2rth2pwr]

55. I don't know about misogynist, but you definitely don't have a sense of humor.

[CaptJasHook]

65. I'm still waiting for your humor.

[ccharles000]

58. I don't think Obama or most of his supporters are misogynist.

I do think that the media is when they made fun of the way she laughed.

[CaptJasHook]

66. I don't think I can ever defend the MSM, but

There have been similar out of bounds statements made about both male and female public figures.

How does it prove that they hate women? Sexist, yeah and then some. Haters?

[Perry Logan]

59. Actually, I'm still sifting through the tons of evidence that anyone who likes Hillary is a racist.

[CaptJasHook]

67. Changing the subject. Stay focused Perry the Ridalin will kick in soon.

[CaptJasHook]

68. Still waiting.

[CaptJasHook]

70. Stll waiting

[CaptJasHook]

76. Almost 3 o'clock PST and still not one "FEMINIST" who has even tried to prove it.

I guess I should wait a full 24 hours. Maybe they are busy.

[hokies4ever]

78. He can't be a misogynist; he has a wife and 2 daughters

:rofl:

[indimuse]

84. YOU want PROOF?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6163422&mesg_id=6163422 right here! wink.

[CaptJasHook]

88. Sigh. Okay, I'll bite. What does this prove Indi?

[lumberjack_jeff]

90. Isn't this the very definition of flamebait?

"Prove to me that I'm not a nazi/pedophile/freeper/misogynist/racist/Olive-garden-chainsmoking-pit-bull-owning-breastfeeding-hotrod owner."

... okay so I am a hotrod owner.

But the point is that no one can take your bait without flames.

on edit

... aha! It took me a great deal of googling, but success! I found the smoking gun!

[CaptJasHook]

91. Nooooooo I've been Rick Rolled

Then why, Lumberjeff, why do they flame ME so?

[lumberjack_jeff]

93. You're just gullible, I guess.

:hi:

[monomach]

92. Something something virtual gangbang something something

Misogynist pig!!11!!1!!1!!

[CaptJasHook]

96. Coming up on 24 hours and still waiting.

I guess I can assume that the Hillaryis44 folks are just hyperbolic agent provocateurs.

[cbc5g]

99. Them screaming sexist or misogynist is code word for "We lost and are sore losers"

[Bensthename]

100. When Obama claims the nomination next week. That will be proof of sexism to me and ferrarro...

Ugh, she drives me crazy..

[CaptJasHook]

103. 24 hours.... nothing.

[unc70]

116. Not a Hillary supporter, but Obama has often acted in ways that appear sexist

I notice Obama doing a lot of little things that seem at least sexist -- for example the recent "sweetie" comment -- and which are part of a larger issue. I see in Obama patterns of behavior that I also see in a couple of people I know very well, behavior I now know are typical for those with a Narcissistic Personality Disorder or with NP tendencies. This makes me wary and more likely to notice things that would confirm my "diagnosis" of Obama.

Some aspects of this behavior can be very helpful as a politician: verbal skills, appearance (smile, eyes, etc.), and body language that most people instinctively respond to and want to be a part of; a projection of self-assurance, of having traits and abilities far superior to those of others; a gift for persuasion. A lot more things, many negative ones: arrogant, selfish, manipulative of emotional vulnerabilities; incredibly charming and attentive until they get what they want, preferring then to escape and avoid conflict; and sometimes much worse.

EDITED TO CLARIFY:
I see Obama having primarily the positive aspects in this behavior, moderated by his mothers strong desire to help others, and with no signs of the self-destructive side of his father who left turmoil everywhere and rarely took responsibility for his actions impacted other people.

Picture the stereotype of the "loving and attentive" husband who gets drunk and suddenly becomes enraged, verbally and physically abusive of those weaker than he, his own family, blaming them for his actions, often even convincing his victims that somehow they were responsible and had caused his behavior, and then beginning another loving stage of the cycle.

Obama's father is described by others as a charismatic personality, a womanizer who left his wife Kezia and two children in Kenya when he came to Hawaii where he met Ann who was pregnant before she was 18. He had two more children with Ruth who went with him from Harvard back to Kenya, having two more children with Kezia during this same period. Ruth divorced him after repeated drunken abuse by him. He wasted his many talents, eventually losing his government appointment, mostly drinking and gambling, losing his legs in one drunken wreck, his life in another.

Obama's mother is described by high school friends as rebelling against nearly everything conventional (it was the late 1950's), cynical with biting sarcasm, who seemed to have no interest in marriage or children, who mostly wanted to break free from her parents by escaping to college with her friends but instead had to move with her parents to Hawaii, started college there and soon met Obama Sr.

It seems strange that each of Ann's husbands were secular Muslims from husband-centric cultures, who drank too much, and Obama (at least) could be abusive. They strike me as unlikely couples, but that is true for a lot of couples.

Each of us is constantly making changes to our own internalized life story and self image. More accurately our life stories, ranging from a simple one told to someone you just met a social event, through those for business, friends, families, spouses, and finally coming to the ones we do not want to reveal to anyone -- not even to our self. Past even our most painful and tragic memories, grief, losses, horrible images -- there we hide our darkest secrets, those few things no one else knows and probably never will.

We try to give each version a positive and favorable spin, while omitting things that are painful for us or our audience.

This has become a different discussion than I had planned and now will need more time to complete. I am putting it in my DU journal and will finish it there.

There is another post in my journal I had made concerning Michelle's complaints about Obama's behavior within their marriage, his long absences, and lack of involvement when he, culminating with her saying that she had never expect that she would wind up raising her children alone.