On the subject of Obama's reach to Bill Clinton for UNITIY:

[Tyler Durden]

"If I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country."

-- Edward Morgan Forster

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am married.

My wife and I do not agree on all things, but she IS my FRIEND, and if someone leveled the sort of garbage at HER that the Obama Campaign has done to Hillary Clinton, no matter what his/her relation was to me, it would be to me as if they had died.

And DO NOT give me any shit about it being his campaign or his supporters and not him: if he has that little control over his campaign or supporters, he does not even belong in the Senate.

[JeffR]

1. Link?

:shrug:

[Tyler Durden]

5. ...

http://www.correntewire.com/obama_to_bill_clinton_youve_got_the_unity_pony_give_it_to_me

[Lerkfish]

8. nice nonpartisan source you got there. LOL!

[musicblind]

42. That's why I said in another thread (the "Google it" thread) that there is no point in posting links

these days. People will shoot down whatever link you post. Because no one agrees on what should or should not be payed attention to. No one agrees on which blogs are best, or which conservative or liberal sites should count and when they should count. When drudge says bad stuff about Clinton Obama supporter claim that it counts. When KO says stuff Clinton supporters hate they claim MSNBC doesn't count. The point of links on GD: P seems to be pointless. People just use the "link" question as a debating strategy anyways.



And yes, I'll agree that the source comes off as biased, just like many other places cited on DU. But when people ask for links they aren't looking for information these days. Just for debating strategies.

[papau]

57. executive" summary for Obama fans - Obama tells Bill Clinton to control his woman and her friends

[Tyler Durden]

184. Oh. My. God. I couldn't have put that better.

[cui bono]

196. As if your interpretaion would not be completely biased and skewed.

[Tyler Durden]

221. Tick Tick Tick. Don't wait too long.

Your camp has already waited too long to heal the schism in my opinion.

[cui bono]

244. So then there's really no reason for you to be here is there?

Obama is going to be the presumptive nominee, and you refuse to come along for the ride.

[JeffR]

27. Um, OK.

Sure.

[Tyler Durden]

33. um, sure.

If that's your opinion, who cares what you think?

[JeffR]

37. What I think isn't the issue.

What you posted here is the issue, and if this is your "justification" for it, I think you wasted a thread.

[Tyler Durden]

62. Exactly my point. What you think ISN'T the issue.

What I think IS. And if you have an opinion, you've posted it, as meaningless as it is to me.

But you are of course entitled to it.

[JeffR]

72. As you're entitled to yours

but if it's solely based on the link you provided, I can't help but think you got yourself worked up about a non-issue.

[Tyler Durden]

85. Whatever you say, sport.

[cui bono]

197. If you don't care what other people think why are you posting on an internet message board?

That's pretty stupid since you're bound to get responses.

[Lerkfish]

39. boy, you just get surlier and surlier

but in cute, button-nosed sort of way. You know, like not threatening at all.

[scarletwoman]

58. I don't know. It's certainly what all politicians have done in the past, I don't see it as

some kind of outrage.

Or let me put it another way, what I see is EVERYBODY wrapped up in outrage.

Yet, politics has ever been a blood sport, and insults have always flown -- have you ever read some of the printed speeches from the 1800s?

All over the world, former rivals have to make nice for the public, and then get on with the serious business of ripping off the citizens. I think we're losing perspective here with our outrage competition.

Look at what's just happened in Lebanon -- I mean, some of the politicians agreeing to sit down together come from factions that have literally shed each other's blood. You think WE'VE got it rough?

At some point things just have be let go. The grownups of the Ruling Class have worked this kind of thing out amongst themselves for millennia -- no doubt aided by their demonstrably less delicate senses of honor.

It's not some awful insult for one rival to seek to make nice with the other. That's always been how it's worked. Power will arrange itself to suit itself, we're wasting energy getting so worked up over it, imho.

Peace,
sw

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. What garbage did Obama level at Clinton?

:shrug:

[Kittycat]

52. I think we're still waiting on a legitimate link

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

56. You ever watch "King of the Hill?"

You know when Peggy Hill really goes off on one of her nutty benders, and Hank needs to step in and drag her back to reality?

I don't see what the big deal is.

[Tyler Durden]

66. Play dumb all you want.

Times UK has it. do your own footwork. I'm not trying to impress or convert you here. That would be a waste of my time.

[Kittycat]

95. No. Your claim, so pony up the link. That's how things work here.

What garbage did Obama level at Bill C?

[Joe the Revelator]

168. You made the argument, put up or shut up.

[Labors of Hercules]

179. cheeep. cheeeeeeep.

so quiet tonight.

[Name removed]

188. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GarbagemanLB]

3. LOL. How pathetic and petty some of you Hillary supporters are. Take your ball and go home if you

don't get your way.

[Tyler Durden]

14. Take your garbage, and do what the dogs do.

Go ahead. Insult my wife in my presence. Bill Clinton has a lot more restraint than I do. I'd be making use of some of that "hand to hand combat training" the Marines gave me.

Why don't you ask YOUR SO what she/he is willing to accept from some boor in your presence before she expects you to act.

[GarbagemanLB]

17. And I'm sure you were okay with Hillary trying to smear Obama with her comments on Wright, Ayers,

and Farrakhan?

Get off your fucking high horse.

[Tyler Durden]

38. And a dozen other tit for tat asshole bullshit items.

Pot meet Kettle.

And if that's your opinion, count me among the 1 of 16 Democrats that won't vote at all and will cost the party the election.

I don't WANT anymore DNC bullshit determining who runs the show. Dean and Brazille have destroyed this primary and election.

[Lerkfish]

44. you openly admit you refuse to vote democratic,then.

buh bye!

[windbreeze]

133. gotcha...

"I don't WANT anymore DNC bullshit"...etc., etc., finally, an explanation of the original post...I was wondering what the real point was...it matters not, the condition this country has been left in...or what has taken place over the last 8 years...all that matters is that YOUR candidate wins at any and all cost, or else you are going to take your vote, go home, AND stay there on election day....amazing...McCain doesn't stand a chance w/o you guys, just remember that, so if you are willing to take that stand and then accept the results...well, then I'd say that doesn't reflect real well on YOUR candidate.......wb

[cui bono]

200. So you are going to vote based on one person's opinion on an anonymous internet message board?

Wow. That explains the lack of substance of your post. Can't think for yourself? Can't figure out that if you really believed in your candidate and her positions you would ABSOLUTELY VOTE FOR OBAMA in the GE because his positions are almost identical to hers?

How childish can you get? Little spoiled brat didn't get his way so now he's going to try to make the country go to shit.

You have no business posting on this board.

[Lerkfish]

25. you need to seek counseling.

delusional, pathetic, transparent, desperate.

I think HIllaryis44 is calling you home.

[cali]

28. ooh, look at the big he man threatening people.

:rofl:

[Tyler Durden]

45. OOO look at the big mouth shoot it off again.

I don't look for your threads to comment on...what are you, a stalker? Did you get my pic from somewhere and your obsession won't let you not get near me? What are you, nuts?

[LisaM]

59. I've had a couple of people follow me around on threads too

I won't say who they are, but there are at least two (one has an MO of finding three-month old statements I've made to try and rebut some current thing I've posted).

[Tyler Durden]

70. Stalkers. Who can figure them?

Not worth my time to chase people here.

[LisaM]

79. Yep.

I will not say who they are, but a couple of weeks ago I had at least two. They are trying to get people TS'ed.

[Mother Of Four]

71. What was that phrase they love to say?

"If you can't take the heat- Get out of the kitchen."


Yeap...I do believe that's what they say over and over again.

Don't you worry Tyler, the Clinton's are made of tougher stuff than you give them credit for. Any human being going in to Politics in this day and age who can't take an insult or ten isn't cut out of the right cloth to make the suit.

HRC has had to deal with much worse than what's been leveled at her in this campaign and she's come out just fine. Ditto with Bill.

Have to let it roll off of you like water off a ducks back.

Oh, and to answer your question- My husband has been in that situation with drunkards and fools talking trash. He's no daisy either, 22 years army and now a civilian LEO. The threat of - how did you put it? (snip)"I'd be making use of some of that "hand to hand combat training" the Marines gave me." (end snip) won't fly with me. At best you would get a :eyes: and the comment of "Why don't you two just flip it out on the table and measure?"

The muscle I appreciate the most about a man is the one between his ears, and believe it or not in my husbands line of work that's their best asset.

Maybe you should start working out that one instead of flexing your biceps.

[Tyler Durden]

82. Madam, I will not call you the name you set up for yourself with your behavior.

And if your husband called my wife what the Obama Campaign had called Hillary Clinton, 911 would be his best friend.

[Mother Of Four]

102. ......

(Blinks)

:rofl:

I mean seriously, you made me laugh out loud. Do you honestly think your idle little flexing makes an impression on me in any way shape or form? Rather, it makes an impression but not one I think you'd find flattering.

By defending The Clinton's TOUGHNESS, candidates YOU support- I get "Madam, I will not call you the name you set up for yourself with your behavior."


Wow...just WOW.. LOL!

[Tyler Durden]

116. Same old Obama Partisan Arrogance.

Level the insult, and feign ignorance.

[Mother Of Four]

121. Ohhhhh---

You mean about the whole macho over the top thing about beating everyone up?

Sorry, but you did that to yourself. It's kindof like Urkel in that sitcom "Family Matters"


"Did I do that?!"

[Tyler Durden]

127. Same old Obama Partisan misquote.

But that's par for the course too.

I think we're done here, unless you're stalking me like cali is.

[Mother Of Four]

128. Don't worry dear-

It'll all be ok, honest. Just lighten up a little.

[Tyler Durden]

134. Don't call ME dear....

I didn't raise 3 children on my own to see the country split like this, half because of some arrogant freshman Senator, who promised he had no intention of running in 2008 in the first place.

There's enough blame to go all around here, but if he doesn't make the overtures for unity based on TRUE HEALING, then the schism is HIS FAULT.

[Bake]

141. Yeah, but that "fierce urgency of now"

trumps the freshman promise not to run ...

:rofl:

Bake

[Tyler Durden]

145. Ol' Honest Obie. The New Lincoln.

Right.

[barb162]

160. You're so right Tyler. I haven't seen bambi coming out and

condemning the disgusting crap that has been thrown at Clinton by many of his supporters. His talk about unity is about on the same level as the rest of silly and empty platitudes. His talk of unity is backed up by nothing (just like his talk of change).

[Tyler Durden]

170. EXACTLY RIGHT.

If he is this GREAT LEADER, then here's his first challenge:

DEMONSTRATE SOME FUCKING HUMILITY AND "LEAD" THE PARTY BACK TO UNITY THROUGH ASKING THE WOUNDED TO FORGIVE AND FORGET.

Who Knows? It might work.

[barb162]

175. I'm not holding my breath.

I've seen two basic traits of bambi. One is the strutting style arrogance and the other is when he gets scared, like when he was caught on the Rev. Wright videos and threw grannie under the bus. I've never seen humility. As to "If he is this GREAT LEADER..." my opinion is he's not a leader of any kind and never has demonstrated leadership anywhere in his past.

[Tyler Durden]

182. I'm just hoping the country stays in one piece.

We may end up grateful to Obama for "...taking one for the team..." He couldn't possibly fix enough to get re-elected: FDR couldn't fix the mess we are headed into, and Bush has forestalled the worst of it until it can be blamed on the incoming Democrat. After Obama, it may be a GENERATION before another AA person gets this far, thanks to guilt by association.

Clinton, if she runs in 2012, may end up looking like the leader after all, and start a string of competent women in charge.

We could do worse.

[barb162]

199. I'm not sure the country will stay in one piece.

There is so much animosity right now and Obama is no healer, is clueless about so many things, except self-stroking. He's about himself, the giant narcissist ego. I fear Obama will dig the hole deeper whereas Clinton would have dug us out of the hole.

[Tyler Durden]

206. My fear as well.

That's why I'm getting a hobby farm, greenhouse, barns, and stocking up on guns, and food.

[cali]

222. who are you to talk? YOU throw out disgusting garbarge about Obama.

I don't hold Hillary responsible for your pathetic, dishonest crap.

And Hillary is done. Not just done in this race. Done forever in national politics.

[Tyler Durden]

227. cali, just go away.

You are going to be so embarassed that you did all this, if not soon, then later in the future.

[Forkboy]

107. Try the decaf, Gunga Din.

[americanstranger]

110. I wish Tyler had a webcam set up.

It would truly be something to be able to see what's going on as he Yosemite Sams himself into a raging blur.

- as

[Mother Of Four]

122. I know-

I mean I think they are trying to be witty, or tough or something- but it's just coming across as this:

[LiberalAndProud]

105. Are you suggesting that Bill challenge Barrack to a duel?

Would you prefer pistols or sabers? Seriously. Your attitude is chivalrous. I salute you.

[Tyler Durden]

118. Nope.

Just tell him to pound sand when he calls.

After this debacle, the Clintons need Obama like a fish needs a bicycle.

[Spider Jerusalem]

135. You are a moron.

Obama didn't insult Hillary Clinton, and even if he had, she should fucking well be able to take it. Apparently her strategy of 'throwing the kitchen sink' gets totally overlooked, and Obama is the bad guy. What fucking planet are you on, anyway?

[cui bono]

198. Oh! Wife insulting... so you're talking about people insulting Michelle Obama!

Why didn't you say so?

[americanstranger]

21. As the percentage gets smaller, the vitriol gets thicker.

We're really starting to see who the 'dead-enders' are - and how small their numbers actually are.

We're down to 3 or 4 really vicious posters at this point. I think the rational Clinton supporters (most of them) have accepted that Obama is getting the nomination and have started to come to terms with it.

These last few? They'll never get over their candidate running a crappy campaign, and will never see it as Clinton's fault. It will forever be Barack Obama's fault that Clinton started with every advantage in the book and still ran such an inept campaign that she squandered it all.

- as

[Lerkfish]

4. I've yet to see any such garbage you're referring to. Got a link or something? or

are you just blowing it out your own ass?

[LisaM]

6. It's bemusing to see people demand a LINK for everything

I think we all know what Tyler Durden is talking about. It's not something you can provide one link to. It's a pattern that started right before the South Carolina primaries with the four-page memo that was circulated on how to frame Hillary's remarks about LBJ and MLK as racist and it's continued with the complete vilification of everything she's ever said or done. Of course, she's used to it, having seen this come at her nonstop from the right wing for years, and she soldiers on (good qualities in a President if you ask me), but surely this is something we have all witnessed.

[Lerkfish]

12. so, in other words, you got nothing.

[LisaM]

15. No, in other words there is plenty out there and you are free to find it

I've posted lots of links (especially to the four-page memo), but sometimes people refuse to see the forest for the trees.

[Lerkfish]

right. I'm not the one making accusations, here, but thanks for playing

gotta love the whole "we're victims" bullshit.

you guys raise it to an art form.

[Labors of Hercules]

183. Good, then it should be EASY to find them to post here...

to back up your friend's bullshit statements.

Or better, how about this: Why don't you STOP spreading around fabricated NONSENSE, grow up, and learn to discern reality from your idiosyncratic and mindless beliefs?

[Tyler Durden]

189. Why don't you stick a sock in it, 1 year wonder?

I've been doing politics since 1968, and posting since the BBS before the net. Infant.

[Labors of Hercules]

193. I thought you were a fool.

Now you have legitimately proven it.

Time alone does not make you wise, or less ignorant.

[Tyler Durden]

209. And your one hit wonders have proved you a clown.

Hopefully age will bring wisdom. In your case it's doubtful as you lack the necessary respect.

[Labors of Hercules]

217. I respect those who earn it, not those who demand it undeservedly,

and you sir have no idea who you are talking to, nor how old I am.

Your assumptions are laughable, and your assertion that I "lack the necessary respect" is insulting.

You are not progressive, and I would venture to say I have learned enough from this tete-a-tete to discern that you are not much of a Democrat either.

[Tyler Durden]

218. And you make yourself look silly.

You are the ideal Obama Disciple: a camp follower, fast to judge, light on substance, and best of all, arrogant and judgmental when it comes to people not on "Your Side."

Perhaps you should remember that YOU started this little exchange by jumping in with a little one hit wonder your cadre is famous for.

[Labors of Hercules]

223. You are a pot, I am a kettle...

and we are both black. Arrogance is a very subjective term. I have,however, definitely been judgmental, and for good reason...

It is frustrating to witness people who call themselves Democrats spew misleading (or in most cases completely fabricated) "facts" to "justify" their ill-formed beliefs about a particular candidate. I respond the same way to Obama supporters whose sources are unsubstantiated.

There is a sufficient amount of valid material from which to make an argument, and I will continue to throw "one hit wonders" when I feel it necessary.

[Tyler Durden]

224. Whatever floats your boat.

What Obama Supporters fail to recognize is that the majority of negatives (whether or not they feel they are valid) have been thrown at Clinton and her supporters. When, or if, Obama becomes the nominee, does his campaign truly expect those they have so completely demonized and vilified to simply "shake it off" and sign on to the bandwagon?

Clinton Supporters feel like rape victims, inappropriately targeted and assaulted: VIOLATED. How can any reasonable person expect them to simply say "Well, we're all DEMOCRATS now," and shuffle along in the Obama parade? It's worse than presumptuous: it's downright stupid.

Do any of you BELIEVE (as seen from the Clinton Camp) that because the DNC anointed Obama after they sabotaged two states' primaries, and left no doubt as to their bias by turning a blind eye to any perceived sexism by throwing out the "race card" (as predicted by ME in November-December last year), that they should simply let it go? Does this actually make sense to you?

What is needed is for the Obama Camp to step out of their elation and adulation for a minute, and put themselves in the shoes of the other camp; try and see their point of view, and then recognize that as THEIR candidate will not be the nominee, that YOU need THEM: THEY do not need YOU.

And most importantly, when you place yourself as the arbiter of what are "facts," you are simply telling the Clinton Supporters to "lie back and enjoy it." AGAIN.

I hope this clears things up.

[Labors of Hercules]

247. Yep. It does.

You are exhibiting a sense of persecution, and acting as if you are owed something because of it. The fact is, all Democrats need each other, not one more than the other... But Hillary has said and done many specific, concrete things in this campaign that I, and many others, find completely unacceptable.

If you think she is being demonized, perhaps you might analyse why you feel that way, because it appears to me that you are working from that mindset that this "persecution" stems from supporters' mindless devotion to Obama and gullibility in allowing the DNC to "anoint" him, rather than a qualified decision that Obama is a better candidate.

Obama has won because more people have expressed their desire to see him win this nomination. It is just that simple. These are not gullible fools. These are intelligent Democrats, many of whom would have voted for Hillary but decided against it and instead voted for Obama...

and I am proud to be counted among them.

[cui bono]

202. And yet you still understand neither. n/t

[Tyler Durden]

210. Thus speaks more of the "Wisdom of Age."

I don't think so.

[cali]

104. It's nothing but opinion. And my opinion is different than the OP's.

I see a pattern by the Clintons of playing the southern strategy, beginning in SC with bill's gratuitous Jesse Jackson comments, which were clearly an attempt to marginalize Obama as a fringe minority candidate who couldn't get white voters in ensuing contests. Not to mention hill's comments about "proud black voters". hilly attacked Obama on Ayers, Farrakhan, Wright, etc. She made repellent statements about "hard working white voters" and about Kennedy's assasination being reason to keep her failure of a campaign going.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

239. Did Obama ever use a kindergarten essay to attack Hillary?

http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2007/12/clinton-digs-in.html

[flor de jasmim]

7. I know I shouldn't dignify this without a link...

but do you feel we should blame Hillary for the actions of every one of her 17 MILLION supporters? Should we blame Obama for every one of HIS?

As for controlling the behavior of others, I think most people have trouble controlling their children's behavior, let alone that of other adults. Let's be real here, eh?

[tridim]

9. Obama is our nominee.

I'm not seeing any point to your post.

The unity ball is in your court, most Democrats are already strongly unified behind our nominee.

[Tyler Durden]

30. No the unity ball is in YOUR court.

If you're the winner, I suggest a little POLITE CONVINCING is in order, since I've been called

Stupid
Traitorous
Delusional
Insane
Liar
Divisive
Deluded
RACIST

and a dozen others I can't think of at the moment.

Do I give two shits that you've run up against people like that in this campaign? Nope. You tarred me with the same brush and add to that, I'm from MICHIGAN, so if you want MY support, the Obama Campaign owes ME and people like me a BIG FAT APOLOGY at the very least.

[tridim]

50. Our nominee Barack Obama would love your support.

How's that?

[Tyler Durden]

74. Then your campaign can apologise.

PUBLICLY. Period. I resent how I have been characterized. Obviously Barack Obama would not want a person of my "low Character."

[tridim]

89. Apologize for WHAT?

Your stubbornness? You're not going to get an apology because there's nothing to apologize for.

Obama is our nominee, that's just how it is. We'd love to have you on board.

[Tyler Durden]

111. Sorry.

I don't associate with people who call me a liar, a traitor, insane.....

Just silly me I guess.

[PassingFair]

142. Barack Obama wants you!

The rest of us think you're a dork.

[OzarkDem]

78. do I look like an Obama supporter?

Sorry, I'm not that gullible. Besides, he keeps lying about his health care plan.

[Lerkfish]

53. again, may I humbly suggest some personal counseling?

you've got some issues.

[OzarkDem]

73. Don't forget the "vagina" vote

blue hairs, senile, the list goes on and on.

[tridim]

92. What the fuck are you babbling about?

[PVnRT]

126. It's a standard OzarkDem reply

[OzarkDem]

152. Today's example

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6139215&mesg_id=6140635

[Tyler Durden]

165. If I may? HEY, "THERE'S NO SEXISM HERE" IDIOTS! LOOK AT THIS!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6139215&mesg_id=6140635

COPIED THE LINK FOR GOOD MEASURE. Nice catch.

[PVnRT]

123. Well, then sit your ass down at home election day

You bitch and bitch about the names Clinton supporters have been called, but never mind the Limbaugh-esque smears leveled against Obama supporters this primary season. Not to mention the delay insinuations of sexism from the Clinton camp thrown at anyone who doesn't support her. But, no, only the mean poopiehead Obama supporters have anything to apologize for to bring unity to the party. Give me a fucking break.

Let us know how browbeating people and making demands works out for you. Maybe you ought to try being the change you want to see in the world, rather than throwing a temper tantrum daily and shouting and screaming that you get your way.

[Tyler Durden]

129. You want to go beyond being a "sore winner" into the "unbelievably unaware" paritisan?

Be my guest. You can preach to your own choir all you want.

I didn't support your candidate. I don't think he's the best candidate, and I believe that I watch belittling, misogynist behavior and false accusations of racism, among other things.

Does this sound like a Democrat just chomping at the bit to join your little bandwagon? WHEN are you going to wake up that you have some serious CONVINCING to do, and frankly, some of us at this point would eat dirt before we would join Campaign Obama after what we and our candidate have been through.

[Name removed]

154. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sniffa]

159. Word

:thumbsup:

[Tyler Durden]

166. I used to respect you. But "we" did nothing to deserve your scorn.

I hope you're happy with the result.

[sniffa]

167. Quite happy

:bounce:

:woohoo:

:bounce:

:woohoo:

[Tyler Durden]

171. "Fearlessly the idiot faced the crowd...smiling."

keep up the good work. the schism gets wider daily thanks to fools like you.

[sniffa]

172. Nice!!!!1!!

:woohoo:

:party:

:headbang:

:grouphug:

[Tyler Durden]

164. Heaven forbid WE feel like the agrieved parties.

I don't want to hear any of your rationalizations, because I've got 1000 of them for Obama. as to your elitest racist comments, eat shit.

You are exactly the reason there's a schism in the party. And nobody says that Clinton's campaign did NOTHING wrong: they just arent't the demons you paint them, and we're sick of the guilt by associations.

You don't want our help? Fine. We didn't want to give it to you, and as a Parliamentary Socialist at heart, maybe more poison will bring about the TRUE CHANGE that I WANT much sooner than Mr. Can't-even-stay-with-his-FIRST-beliefs-wanting-single-payer-health-care.

[Iceburg]

214. LOL. Gosh Tyler I think they like you :-) /nt

[niyad]

10. here's your flamesuit. don't forget, the saint hasn't done anything wrong, at least

according to his supporters and acolytes.

[blogslut]

11. You exhaust me

with your imagined slights.

I'm sorry your candidate is not going to be the nominee. I am sure you are very disappointed. When you're ready to join us, we'll be here waiting for you.

[Tyler Durden]

16. Don't hold your breath.

I'm so wet from being pissed on, I feel like I've been in a downpour.

[blogslut]

22. We'll stock up on soap and towels

Just for you.

[Tyler Durden]

77. I wouldn't bother.

I'm not coming to you hat in hand. In my opinion, I was RIGHT you were WRONG and if you want my help, you need to make some amends for the epithets and other bullshit.

Or do without.

[blogslut]

103. You make the list

And I will read it. Then we can talk.

[Tyler Durden]

113. Fine.

Lets START with how delusional I am to support such a liar.

Then we can move on to how I must support McCain and am a closet Republican to support Clinton.

Next we can move on to how stupid I am not to see through Clinton's dirty campaigning.

Then there's always how I must be racist as well to support such a racist.

I could go on like this for HOURS; these are direct from posts and Real World epithets thrown at me.

[americanstranger]

119. So it's all about you, eh?

I'll pass that on to the media and candidates.

I'm sure they'll all be happy to accomodate you, seeing as it's all about you.

Anything else? Sammich? Mood elevators? Let us know.

- as

[blogslut]

156. I didn't throw them at you

I may have a rude nickname but I try to be civil. I also understand why you feel you've been personally insulted. If I have ever said anything like that to you, I apologize. I won't make excuses. I have lashed out and been unkind to others on this board. Maybe none of us are innocent. Perhaps we all have some apologizing to do.

As Margaret Cho said about our two candidates, "It is an embarrassment of riches". Well, people get pretty crazy when it comes to dividing up riches. We're greedy children let loose in a political candy store. This year is our year after eight years of the worst administration in our history. The presidency is our for the taking and that assurance is corrupting. The extended primary season hasn't helped - or maybe it has, I'm still not sure.

In all this rush for gold, things got ugly. The question is, were our crimes unforgivable? Can we put the past aside and join together?

I am willing. I can't say I'll always be gracious but I'll do my best to be civil. I bet you will make your best effort as well. We're going to need each other. We have a common enemy and they must be defeated. Our country cannot survive another four years of Republican rule. Our very future depends on the outcome of this General Election.

:hi:

[Tyler Durden]

169. What you don't get is that your "crimes" are FORGIVEABLE....

Your team just hasn't ASKED, and treat any suggestion that they should with "MOI???" and incredulity, like we got what we deserve, and we're lucky if you let us help.

That sort of arrogance will lose the GE. Mark my words.

[blogslut]

176. The only team I have is the Democratic party

I am not the Obama campaign. You are not the Clinton campaign. For all the hoopla, those two people are hardly the ones throwing these barbs back and forth across Internet message boards or around the dinner tables of America. Let's not forget the contributions of the news media, slathering likes dogs over every gaffe or bit of drama.

Personally, I don't think the Obama campaign has been hostile or vicious towards Hillary Clinton. I'm sure that, from your perspective, she has been nothing but respectful and decent to him. However, the apologies of the two campaigns are not up to us.

It is up to us to apologize to each other. I apologize. What about you?

[Tyler Durden]

180. "If I offended anyone, then I apologize"

Do you have any Idea what you sound like?

By the way, from your attitude I would assume you didn't jump on the "Hillary Clinton is the Whore of Babylon" bandwagon, so you may feel free not to take anything on this thread personally.

The point is though, WE FEEL WRONGED. Wronged individuals do not want compromise, they want an honest amends. We ain't got it so far.

[blogslut]

191. I am trying to reach you

As I said, I don't think I have said anything hateful to you. If you would like to show me such a thing, I will absolutely, wholeheartedly, give you my humble apology. Since I don't know, then it's difficult to be specific.

I will not lie. I am very saddened by some of Senator Clinton's actions during this campaign. The assassination comment was a terrible way to frame a talking point. Her intent is unimportant. What matters is that she opened a Pandora's box when she said it. Horrible ideas were released with her words. I found her apology lacking in that she neglected to see how her words were insensitive to the Obama family. This is but one example of the many disappointments from her that I've experienced in these many months.

Still, I don't think she is a bad person. I just think she's running a bad campaign. I chose Obama early on. I simply liked his message better than hers. When we held our primary, I didn't vote against Hillary Clinton. I voted for Barack Obama. If there is the chance that Senator Clinton becomes our nominee, I will vote for her in the General Election. I just don't think that chance exists. Barack Obama ran the better campaign. The contest is over. Now comes the battle and all hands on deck.

[Tyler Durden]

208. I don't think he has a prayer.

Of winning OR fixing the country. He's a freshman Senator who complains about the price of Arugala. I don't think Clinton had much chance either.

[tridim]

237. Arugula is a common salad green. You really need to stop regurgitating RE propaganda on DU.

http://www.ochef.com/151.htm
What is arugula? Is there a suitable substitute for it?

Where were you in the 90s (let alone the current century)? That’s when arugula pretty much became our national salad green. Actually, it was popular in Italy and France for ages, but caught on in the US and Britain somewhat more recently. Perhaps you know if by some of its other names — rugola, rucola, roquette, garden rocket, Mediterranean rocket, salad rocket, Roman rocket, or Italian cress (the rockets being a corruption of the French roquette).

Arugula is a spicy little leaf, which some describe as bitter and others characterize as having a "peppery-mustardy" flavor. Because it is so potent on its own, it is often mixed with milder greens to produce a nice balanced salad. It can also be sautéed in olive oil. You can substitute most any green for arugula, but the closest matches are Belgian endive, escarole, and dandelion greens.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

23. Oh, poor you.

Last time you acted like this, you slurred Obama supporters, then whined about people slurring you, then said you'd leave GD:P.

Whatever happened to that plan?

[Lerkfish]

31. so, in other words, your self-victimization will prevent you from voting democratic?

kinda reminds me of when a relative would give up chocolate for lent. Since that relative hated chocolate, it was not really a change in position.

you not voting Democratic is a lot like that.

[Swamp Rat]

13. McCain is the enemy!!

Think about how many more dead American soldiers and Iraqis there will be if we do not unify against the REAL opposition.

[AtomicKitten]

18. Heads up for the cold shoulder Clinton will get on her return to the Senate.

something she earned all by herself

[Bake]

143. I wouldn't be so sure about that.

But I am sure you'll be disappointed when that doesn't happen. Obots not only want the nomination, they want Hillary pilloried, run out of the Senate, put behind bars, etc.

Bake

[AtomicKitten]

149. Hillary is entirely responsible for how she is regarded after this fiasco of a run.

[Tyler Durden]

173. Too bad this isn't another era.

With their arrogant conviction of superiority, and the required subjugation of those they disagree with....well, I don't want to get BANNED. Yet.

[SoFlaJet]

19. the guy made her an international fucking joke

by getting head from an almost minor IN THE FUCKING OVAL OFFICE and you have the balls to come here and try and sling that shit?

[panhead1961]

36. Bill made some kind of deal

Once this is over, his job is done. He has been embarassing her with his poor taste forever.

[SoFlaJet]

54. and nuking his own legacy

in the meantime panhead-could be his way of making amends...still no excuse to hurt others with your amends making. It is one of the tenets in 12 step recovery

[panhead1961]

148. Thought about that

Either way it sucked watching someone I still admired slining crap.

[Straight Shooter]

150. Monica was 22 years old and well-versed in sexual encounters at the time of her relationship w/Bill

He was also most definitely not the first married man she set her sights on. She had a history, so to speak.

In addition, age of consent for sexual intercourse in Washington, D.C. is 16. Although they did not have sexual intercourse, Monica was well past the age of being considered a "minor."

Average age of intercourse for American teens is 16. Average age for oral sex is 14.5 years.

http://www.livescience.com/health/060405_baltimore_teens.html

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/2281.html

Such poutrage.

[Lucinda]

20. I see the peanut gallery is already attacking you...

I find it amazing that O lets them be vilified as racists and then asks for Bill's help. I hear what you're saying, but Bill will do what he needs to for the party should Obama get the nom.

I don't think it will happen though. Just can't see the party nominating O.
Guess we'll know soon enough.

[LisaM]

68. EXACTLY.

I still cannot believe that there are people who think the Clintons are racist, and that the Obama campaign has let this happen, much less go continue. I don't know exactly how David Axelrod starts his whisper campaigns, but they are very effective.

[cali]

24. Inappropriate use of one of my favorite quotes by my favorite writer.

What does your petty, angry and erroneous statement have to do with Forster's marvelous quote? Nothing. Zip.

And just pulling crap out of your own orifice and proclaiming it as the truth, when you provide no evidence for it, is utterly disgusting.

[SoFlaJet]

41. that's just Taylor's way cali

she likes to try and make herself sound well read

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

61. um, get it together, Tyler. This is a political discussion board

I respond to posts as I wish- as do you. Your post is a riot, though.

Talk about an over inflated ego. yikes. seek help.

[Tyler Durden]

93. um, get it together, cali. The operative word is DISCUSSION.

You don't discuss, you search for your favorites to tinkle on, like the child you are. perhaps maybe you should seek help, not me.

I don't go looking for YOU, you come looking for ME. How sick is that?

[americanstranger]

98. Ironic.

Your OP seems to advocate the very antithesis of discussion.

- as

[Lerkfish]

99. um, dude or dudette: you are not having a discussion

you are slashing. big difference.

seek professional help. seriously. You are becoming unhinged.

[EnviroBat]

26. Yes, because the Great Obama demands that we all obey.

"Use any and all divisive attacks against Hillary the enemy, and her supporters.
"Consume'
"Mate"
"Donate to the cause"

Yes we hear you all-mighty Obama, and we obey... The Obama controls our thoughts and our actions...

Really?

Give it a rest. :eyes:

[DanTex]

29. "I have here in my hand a list of 205 -- err -- 57 unfair sexist comments made by Obama"

And I'm willing to destroy my country in order to defeat Obamunism.

[OzarkDem]

32. Obama's character flaws

render him unelectable. His choice of primary campaign tactics shows incredibly poor judgement and a poor choice for the nomination.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

35. Name one flaw.

[JeffR]

43. You need to lay off the crack for a while.

Seriously. It's not good for you.

[Renew Deal]

34. Quit whining already

Bill isn't just Hillary's husband. He's no Michelle Obama or Cindy McCain or even Hillary in 1992 or 1996. Bill is the last Democratic president. He has an obligation to help the party. Especially when you consider how we helped him deal with his BJ problems.

[americanstranger]

46. Excellent point.

This is a test for Bill. It'll be interesting to see if he's big enough to put his personal feelings aside.

It would really be disappointing if he ended up being as obstinate and vindictive as some of his wife's supporters on this board.

- as

[OzarkDem]

60. Then be disappointed

Bill doesn't owe Obama anything.

Obama needs to take responsibility for his own actions and start living up to his promises.

[tridim]

67. Bill owes the Democratic party everything

That's his job.

If he doesn't want to play ball then get off the fucking field.

[OzarkDem]

81. He owes Obama nothing

Obama is not the Democratic Party.

[Renew Deal]

83. Bill owes Obama for letting him spend the next 4-8 years in Chappaqua with Hillary

Bill should be very grateful.

[tridim]

84. I didn't say that, did I?

[cali]

Obama will very shortly be the nominee and as such the leader

of the party.

[americanstranger]

69. You know what? I won't be.

Clinton, to this point, has shown that he's as willing to get down in the mud as any other politician.

I used to expect better things from Bill. After this primary? Nah. He's no less cynical than any other politician.

- as

[OzarkDem]

55. He has no such obligation to help Obama

the primary isn't over and Obama has done a great deal of damage to party unity. Helping Obama would only reward bad behavior and encourage others to destroy good Democrats for their short term personal gain.

[GarbagemanLB]

65. You're against rewarding bad behavior? So you support a punishment for FL and MI, right?

[reflection]

106. Nicely played. n/t

[Renew Deal]

80. Obama has been winning since day 1.

Hillary hasn't been ahead for a single day of this campaign. The party unity that was damaged was in your mind. It was between you and the rest of the Hillary supporters. Hillary lost. It's not Obama's or the party's fault that Hillary ran a bad campaign.

Bill (and Hillary's supporters) can make the decision on whether the party is important to him. If it is, great. And if it isn't, he and them can go to hell. But enough with the incessant whining and crybaby bullshit. That includes you.

[blonndee]

181. So then you would say working against HRC for her next Senate run would be a good thing?

Since we don't want to reward bad behavior? (In addition to the excellent point above re: FL and MI).

[mohc]

40. So are you advocating against unity?

It seems to me that many Clinton supporters have complained about the fact that the Obama campaign continues to attack Clinton even though they claim to have already won. Now Obama's campaign is at least starting an attempt to bring the two sides together, and that is also attacked. What exactly would you like to see happen? If things had played out differently and Clinton still had a viable shot at the nomination at this point, she would have exactly the same type of problems. Would Obama supporters then be right to reject the inevitable calls for unity from the Clinton campaign? Or perhaps you feel both sides should just ignore the rifts that have formed during this campaign and hope that everyone just spontaneously comes together on their own.

[americanstranger]

51. Oh, they're fine with unity as a concept.

Just extremely selective as to whom the concept is applied.

Unite behind Hillary? No problem!

Unite behind Obama? Unity sucks!

- as

[OzarkDem]

64. Advocating for party unity

means not rewarding candidates who abuse the party and deliberately sow disunity to advance their agenda.

Bill and other Dem leaders need to send a clear message that our party can't survive if we allow candidates to run primary campaigns the way Obama has.

[americanstranger]

76. He'd better denounce and reject his wife, then. n/t

- as

[Renew Deal]

88. You're sowing disunity in the party

What should we do with you?

[mohc]

96. So what is left to do?

There are many like you on the Clinton side that believe Obama has run an unfair campaign. There are many on the Obama side, if not more, than believe Clinton has run an unfair campaign. Neither side has some superior claim to the truth in this regard, to believe so ends any chance of rational discourse. Just as you might see it as disingenuous for Obama to call for unity after running what you perceive to be a divisive campaign, many more feel that way about Clinton. So what is left to do? Do we all reject each other as not only supporting an inferior candidate, but one that has eliminated any right or possibility of reconciliation? Or do we realize that we must at least try to bridge the gap? Obama supporters will continue to attack Clinton and her supporters so long as Clinton and her supporters attack Obama. And Clinton supporters will continue to do the same because she is being attacked. It is a vicious, self-sustaining cycle. There are some on both sides that will feel that a line has been crossed that can not be undone. They will believe that it would be worse to come together than to see the party, and its ideals, split. But I for one hope that for the vast majority that line has not been reached, and we can work to come together.

[Tyler Durden]

97. No, I'm advocating for an APOLOGY.

I'm always open to forgiveness. You have to ASK for it, though.

[tridim]

101. Dude, you're not going to get an apology

There's nothing to apologize for.

[Tyler Durden]

109. Exactly my point. and exactly the reason you won't get the support you need.

Unconditional Surrender. "You supported that lying, traitorous, divisive, blah blah blah, AND YOU MUST ATONE!!!!"

Right. Don't hold your breath.

[tridim]

124. So your point is that you wont get an apology that you don't expect?

And when you don't get it, you'll continue to trash our nominee?

Gee, that makes sense. :eyes:

I have never said that you or any other Clinton supporter must atone. I simply asked you to support our nominee because well, he's our nominee, and you're a Democrat. Right?

[Tyler Durden]

132. Naw.

I haven't done much of this "Trashing" you accuse me of anyway. And in my book, anyone who treats me and my candidate in a way I do not feel is justified, isn't much of a Democrat.

Besides, I don't have to trash him. The weight he is carrying from his fanatic "OBAMA IS ALWAYS RIGHT" cadre is handicap enough.

[tridim]

138. Are you a Democrat?

If so, prove it.

[Tyler Durden]

140. Since 1968

and stick it where the moon don't shine.

[tridim]

155. Geez, what happened?

[Tyler Durden]

163. This bullshit parimary happened.

[tridim]

203. Is this the first primary that your candidate lost?

[Tyler Durden]

225. No.

In 1968 my candidate was killed, then the next candidate was not nominated. I was not yet of voting age.
In 1972 my candidate was not nominated.
In 1976 my candidate was nominated.
In 1980 my candidate was not nominated.
In 1984 my candidate was not nominated.
In 1988 my candidate was not nominated.
In 1992 my candidate was not nominated.
In 1996 my candidate was nominated.
In 2000 my candidate was nominated.
In 2004 my candidate was not nominated.
In 2008 my candidate got bumped a long time ago.

Guess I should be used to working for losers, right? But this is the first time when supporting my second choice I get called a racist, an idiot, or a Republican. This one's the worst so far.

[tridim]

236. Ahh, so what's the variable?

Activists and average voters haven't changed all that much since the 60's. Communications have changed drastically, but that's just the medium. Who or what could it be that is causing all your grief? Hmm..

[mohc]

108. Honestly

So long as the apology is not one sided, I have absolutely no problem with reconciliation starting with an apology. It is basically impossible to wage a campaign against a strong opponent, which both Obama and Clinton are, and not to at some point utilize or at the least condone behavior that is in someway unfair. We could argue about the varying degrees to which the two campaigns did so, but that simply would not be productive. Bringing the party together will require bringing Obama and Clinton together, and if Clinton feels she needs an apology then so be it. But it would be absurd to advocate for that if one did not have the exact same expectation for Clinton to apologize as well.

[Tyler Durden]

147. Hey, it's Obama's election to lose.

He was arrogant enough to go back on his promise to finish his term...is he arrogant enough not to eat crow for some Clinton support?

Excellent question.

[Why Syzygy]

204. Apologize for winning. How very .. Clinton.

[Tyler Durden]

228. If you can win it all with 51% of the Democrats supporting you....

Then your campaign manager must be fucking MERLIN.

Reality has to set in SOMETIME. You need the Clinton Supporters: THEY DO NOT NEED YOU.

[DevonRex]

120. Will you or will you not vote for the dem presidential nominee in

November, no matter which one it is?

[here_is_to_hope]

47. "Like hamsters on a giant trivia wheel."....LMAO!!! n/t

[endarkenment]

48. Exactly which garbage?

Oh wait, I forgot that the Obama campaign decided to adopt the Kitchen Sink Strategy after losing the primary battle fair and square. Oh wait, that wasn't the Obama campaign at all.

[Tyler Durden]

187. "Kitchen Sink" a RW comentator's MEME.

Suits you well.

[americanstranger]

201. RW commentator? Maybe not.

http://www.google.com/search?q=clinton+kitchen+sink&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Tossing out the right-wing links to 'Exposing The Left' and FR, it looks as though the 'Kitchen sink' meme has been attributed to a member of Clinton's own staff by most news outlets.

Unless Google is in on it, too...

- as

[endarkenment]

231. It is all a conspiracy, a vast conspiracy, to deny the Clinton's what is theirs.

[butterfly77]

63. But,But, But, ...

Hillary is suppose to be tough..If she can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. I don't need the Obama campaign to tell me what to think about Hillary I can determine that for myself.

[DevonRex]

75. Tyler, will you vote for the democratic candidate in November no

matter WHICH candidate it is?

[Lerkfish]

94. nope, post #38 I think, above, they clearly state they will never vote for the nominee

so, they no longer belong here.

[DevonRex]

100. I tend to agree with you, although he may have said enough "ifs"

to wiggle out of it. I guess I could go back and read the mess again, but he gave me a headache.

[cbayer]

205. I encourage you to go to this thread and tell all the supposed

Obama supporters who say they would not vote for him if Clinton is on the ticket the same thing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6148442

And if you won't, I would like to know how you think it is different.

[Bread and Circus]

86. This requires the proverbial response of "whatever"

:eyes:

[zulchzulu]

87. What's "UNITIY"?

Besides what may be a typo, are you a Democrat?

The Clintons lost. Deal with it.

[raebrek]

90. quit it n/t

[Lerkfish]

91. I give this meltdown an 8.5

with some points for degree of difficulty.

:)

[greguganus]

112. New talking point of the day from Hillary's conference call. n/t

[dbmk]

114. Does that go for the member of Hillaryis44 that was reported to the SS, too?

[Name removed]

115. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ShortnFiery]

117. You make ZERO sense. Projection is an ugly defense mechanism ... get help! eom

[Tyler Durden]

131. I think that's a MIRROR you're looking in.

But that's just me. And a ton of Clinton Supporters.

[DevonRex]

137. Will you or won't you vote for the democratic presidential nominee

in November, no matter which one it is?

[Bensthename]

125. Funny how mad Hillary groupies are and yet can never provide details on what Obama has done.

Their princess has lost so they are mad at Obama, though they are not sure why. They are told by her surrogates to be mad, so they are. But they can not provide one reason..
A reoccurring theme that makes me laugh, so gullible.. :rofl:

[tridim]

130. You're exactly right.

This isn't about Obama, or his supporters, or vapor apologies. It's just about being mad that she lost when she was supposed to be the inevitable nominee.

I know it's a bummer, but it's also reality. Just let go.

[last_texas_dem]

136. A couple of things, Tyler Durden

1) I disagree with you on the whole idea of Obama being able to "control his supporters", just as I would disagree with the idea that Clinton should be able to control hers. Think of the millions of people who support and have supported both candidates. There's no doubt that there are plenty of sweethearts and plenty of assholes in both camps, and it's not fair in my belief, as difficult as it may be NOT to sometimes, to link the behavior of supporters with the candidate that they support.

2) As for the question of Obama reaching to Bill Clinton for unity, I ask you: 1) Do you believe that the Clinton campaign has been any less nasty towards Obama than the Obama campaign has been towards Clinton?, and 2) If the current positions of the candidates were reversed, would you not want Obama to help rally his supporters behind Clinton's nomination for the sake of Democratic Party unity?

[Tyler Durden]

144. A reasonable couple of questions, here are some reasonable answers.

1. The conduct of Hillary Clinton has been linked to her campaign since day one, as if she was the personal architect of the entire campaign. This was the obsession here and in the media. Do you believe that if Clinton should be held to this standard, than Obama should not? The concept of "I didn't do it, the people who work for me did" is called Plausible Deniability, and it didn't work very well for Nixon either. This is not a comparison of Obama and his policies to Nixon.

2.1. Both campaigns have behaved badly. Do I believe that the Obama Campaign has behaved badly in a more subtle way? Yes. Do I believe they have behaved worse than the Clinton Campaign? Yes, but then I'm from Michigan and had a front row seat for the torpedoing of the redo primary vote by State Senator Tupac Hudson, the Michigan Chair of the Obama Campaign.

2.2. Certainly. And I would expect Clinton to make the same sort of apologetic overtures I expect now from the Obama Campaign. It is the highest form of arrogance to claim the high road simply because you have won when both sides have been so hurtful. Maj. Gen. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain called the Army of the Potomac to attention to salute the Army of Northern Virginia at Appomattox. A similar series of gestures is not only suggested, it is REQUIRED.

And thank you for addressing the issue with politeness.

[kdpeters]

139. So Tyler Durden goes on record opposing unity

[Tyler Durden]

146. Nope. Tyler Durden goes on record condemning "Winner's Arrogance."

VERY close to 50% voted for Clinton. I suppose that makes them liars, idiots, and racists in your book?

Time for the WINNER to eat some crow. He won't do it on his own in the fall.

[book_worm]

151. Compared to Hillary Clinton Obama has run a clean campaign.

[Tyler Durden]

177. Not in the view of a Clinton Supporter. This is what you refuse to "get."

You want the support of the almost 50% of the party that you've told they were dirt. Well, now you have to eat those words, or go down the dusty road to defeat.

Hey, it's YOUR choice. Most of us on the Clinton side don't exactly see Obama is being the wonder kid ready to kick ass and take names anyway, so....

Convince me. and START with I'm sorry I behaved like an asshole and treated you all like shit, you didn't deserve it.

(Not "you" personally, mind.)

[sudopod]

153. I'm sure you wouldn't send your wife into swarms of snipers, either.

It seems you that and Bill just don't seem to see eye-to-eye on some things.

[Tyler Durden]

185. I'll give this the reply it deserves: none.

[sudopod]

216. lolz :3 nt

[Tyler Durden]

234. He looks like a zombie in that picture. Scary.

[AspenRose]

157. Quit it

eom

[Cha]

158. It's nice that you have a friend

'cause you sound like you don't have a fucking clue about what's going on in the real world.

Another fucking little whiner like hilary whose husband is out there demanding respect for her just like you are, tyler :nopity: durden.



<snips>

"Yet the assassination reference wasn't Clinton's only mistake. In the same breath, she maintained that her husband had not wrapped up the nomination until June. In truth, he did so in March with the Illinois primary. While California made his victory a mathematical fact, the outcome had not been in doubt for months.

She also struck discordant notes in January when she said Martin Luther King's dream of racial equality was realized only when President Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and after her victory in the West Virginia primary earlier this month when she noted she was beating Obama among "working, hardworking Americans, white Americans."

In the current tempest over what Clinton said — and what she meant — the calendar may be the real culprit. She made a similar remark about the 1968 Kennedy assassination in March that received little notice then, probably because there were still plenty of state contests left and more uncertainty as to who would come out ahead.

Now, the longer the nomination race goes on, the more people are asking Clinton why she continues to campaign.

She insists she can win, but the mathematical explanations for how that can happen grow more fanciful by the week.

And without any clear explanation of how she can win, mentioning the Robert Kennedy assassination to some ears sounds like the last, desperate scenario of someone unwilling to admit defeat."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080524/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_remark

[barb162]

161. K&R

He can stop these attacks any time he wants.

[Why Syzygy]

162. So, you're saying that's Bill Clinton SHOULD betray his country for her sake.

Fine. Let him. Then get him out of here.

btw .. I don't know the context of your quote, but isn't that how coups get started?
Buddies sticking together no matter what happens to society?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

174. Yeah, it's quite disturbing when a campaign doesn't have control over its supporters

Dontcha think?

[Tatiana]

178. Richard. Mellon. Scaife. n/t

[Asgaya Dihi]

186. Not enough info for judgement on it

Betray your nation or your friend? In either case the missing element seems to be why, doesn't it? Loyalty to a friend you have common principles with is admirable but misplaced loyalty to friends who have betrayed what you believe in or who have or are going to do harm to others is just Bush saying "hell of a job, Brownie". He was loyal too in his own way. Loyalty to who, why, and under what circumstances seems to be missing from the premise.

We differ on where the weight of the bad actions have been, personally I think Obama and his campaign have run pretty clean and many who are pissed at him should actually be pissed at anything from the press to random people on boards like this instead. Hillary isn't responsible for the Hillaryis44.org crowd or others of the sort and Obama isn't responsible for or in control of those on his side who act badly either. If he doesn't belong in the campaign or the Senate for it I'd think the same applies to her, by that logic both are disqualified. Looking at the candidates themselves I'm more willing to deal with four or eight years of him than her mostly because the ends don't justify the means and she seems to think it does.

Unity between the Clintons and anyone else I don't even care about, personally I think she's reached the highest point she ever will and she ended any hopes of more with this campaign. He's hardly ideal either but like most elections it's a choice of the one you can best accept rather than most love, at least for me. And I feel pretty much like you do though reversed, if anyone had treated me the way Obama has been treated here they'd be dead to me as well and I don't care who they are.

If the cost of unity is her on the ticket or otherwise paid off and rewarded for bad acts maybe it would be better if we did lose the election, she's not going to get it in four years and that would just leave us four years from a chance for real change again. Put her on the ticket and the VP can't be fired or really reigned in, we get four more years of this crap, a public wanting change from us next election, so another 8 to 12 years before we have another chance at real change.

Waiting four years would be bad, but waiting more years worse. If it's just more of the same under either party we haven't accomplished a thing. If she had just understood and campaigned like change meant something to her instead of with old early 00s or late 90s attack style politics maybe she would have been the nominee. Nobody took it from her, she just didn't earn it, was a few years out of step and didn't notice the nations wants and needs were changing.

[EFerrari]

190. That's just sad.

[DemExpat]

192. I agree. His abuse will cost him the election IMO.

DemEx

[cui bono]

194. What are you talking about? Your OP makes no point.

[cui bono]

195. And.. so if you believe your last sentence you feel the same about Hillary then?

Right? Of course you do.

[merh]

207. Having affairs during his marriage is a betrayal

seeking unity of the party so that a dem will win the white house is politics and about the future of the nation. He didn't give a damn about his wife, the party or the nation while president and having the affair, he can make up for it now.

Some of you guys are just nuts, out and out nuts.

[Tyler Durden]

219. Lovely RW talking point.

Get thee to a nunnery.

[merh]

226. LOL - the truth is a right wing talking point now.

:rofl:

Oh, and btw - if she were to win the candidacy it would be RW talking points she faces, if either one of you can't stand the heat (or the cold hard truth) then may I suggest you both get the hell out of the game.

[TTUBatfan2008]

211. Hey, I feel the same way about the Clintons

Obama shouldn't even reach out to them. Their campaign tactics have been pretty damn despicable, including talking down to Obama's younger supporters such as myself. Hillary and Bill, you don't control how I think and neither does Obama. But if you wish to patronize me, then you can fuck off.

[RichardRay]

212. Your choice, your karma.

It looks to me like you're letting other people control your choices. You're responsible for the results of your actions, not them. Seems silly.

[Tyler Durden]

220. If Camp Obama wishes to lose, then that is there problem, not mine.

Personally? I think the man is an arrogant lightweight. I would rather see a Democrat as president. Too bad that if Obama gets the nomination, we won't have one running.

[RichardRay]

229. That's not your choice, so please don't claim it's controlling

your actions.

You may not get to vote for the person you want to vote for, but you do get to chose who to vote for of the ones on the ballot. You've got a choice of who to vote for. Make it. It's yours to make, it's not determined by anyone else.

Make your choice and live with it. Your choice, your karma. You pick.

[Tyler Durden]

233. "if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

"I will choose the path that's clear: I will choose free will."

[RichardRay]

240. You're obviously welcome to your free will,

what you may not do is avoid the consequences of your actions. The fact that you have made a choice for what you perceive as good reasons and in accordance with your principles does not free you from the responsibility for the outcome.

Fair is a flawed concept, and a frail one, cause and effect are far more dependable.

[Tyler Durden]

241. I ACCEPT the consequences of my actions.

The myriad of Clinton Haters, do they?

[RichardRay]

243. What difference does that make to your decision? n/t

[cui bono]

245. Really? His positions on issues are almost the same as Clinton.

So why do you say that? Can you please show how he's not a Dem?

[indimuse]

213. I don't think the BO people here, understand...nor care much about anything OTHER

than, praising Barack.

[mamalone]

215. Honestly.... and I probably shouldn't even respond here...

As far as insulting Hillary, I see no evidence of Obama doing that, and it appears you are unwilling or unable to provide a link as proof of your claim. But even so, I can imagine nothing that would be more insulting and demeaning to a woman than what Bill Clinton has done to Hillary himself. He has betrayed her trust and humiliated her in front of the entire world. Now he has never said anything like the quote you gave, and I doubt that he ever would. He has no basis for outrage, as he has done worse to her than almost any other man could.

You sound like a very devoted husband though... I am sure your wife is very appreciative.

[shugah]

230. the Clinton's are very good about "forgiving"

Bill and Hillary both have seemingly forgiven some pretty reprehensible language and behavior that has been directed at themselves and their daughter over the years. Scaiffe and fox news, for instance, have been hateful (at best) to the Clinton's in the past, and they don't seem to be holding that against them currently. Gingrich and even Mccain have said some pretty horrible things too but they have been praised by the Clintons.

not saying that you should in any way alter your loyalty to your loved ones, just suggesting that it seems the standards are different in the political world that your candidate inhabits.

[Tyler Durden]

235. Keep it up. Let that bridge smolder.

Obama NEEDS the Clinton Supporters if he gets the Nom. THEY do not need HIM.

[shugah]

238. while i understand your point

i just don't agree with it.

i am confident that most Clinton supporters will vote for Obama in the GE (as would be the case were the tables turned). i've been at DU long enough (and so have you) to know that this forum doesn't particularly reflect politics in the real world.

[Tyler Durden]

242. Then you aren't out in the real world.

Same as here.

Notice: 49% of Democrats voted for Clinton, and if you lose 1 of 16, then you lose the GE.

That's statistics, and at the moment, you were seeing exits with a lot higher percentages than that.

Same thing would be true if it was Clinton winning. 1 of 16.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

232. Just vote for McCain and shut the fuck up already.

You whine more than anybody here.

[SeaLyons]

246. Kick

Obama has run a slimey campaign. End of Story.