UK Guardian: Clinton has run her campaign the same way Bush has run the country

[mod mom]

Clinton has run her campaign the same way Bush has run the country
In her cynicism-sustained attempt to defeat Obama, she has shown contempt for intelligence, decency and democracy

Gary Younge
The Guardian, Monday May 26 2008
Article history

-snip

As the primary season draws to a close it has become increasingly apparent that Hillary Clinton has run her campaign with the same contempt for intelligence, decency and democracy that Bush has run the country. Like the Bush administration, her campaign has been sustained by cynicism, divisiveness and fear-mongering, leaving a toxic and rancorous rift in its wake. Like the White House, her aim has been to win at all costs. And like the White House, it has produced the same result. Failure.

It is a continuum not of policies - on that front she is closer to Barack Obama than either of them would concede - but a mindset that has served America ill these past seven years. Creating a bespoke reality out of whole cloth and then hoping people will not just buy it, but wear it.


-snip

On Friday she was lambasted for intimating that she was staying in the race because, like Bobby Kennedy, Obama may yet be assassinated. It was clumsy. But a reasonable reading of the context shows she neither said nor meant anything of the kind. Her problem is that by now the general impression is that there is almost nothing she wouldn't do or say. It would indeed take something that dramatic and tragic for her to win.

Like the Bush administration, the issue is no longer whether she leaves the stage with her reputation irreparably tarnished, but what state she leaves it in and how many people she is prepared to take with her.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/may/26/hillaryclinton.barackobama

WORTH AN ENTIRE READ.

[pocoloco]

1. Yes, but this is not a bad thing.

It has allowed us to really get to know her and to know exactly what to expect.

[Kittycat]

2. Exactly. If she had rapped this up on ST like she thought - we'd

be in for a big disappointment down the road.

Thank goodness her campaigned failed so miserably, and the people rejected her.

[Bucky]

63. wrapped

If she could have "rapped" up the nomination, she'd probably have won the hip young urban vote.

[ExPatLeftist]

130. "He drew a circle that excluded me; so I drew a circle that included him."

Wow. Thanks for this incredible and deep statement in your footer - it immediately struck me. I looked up the quote and am reading about it. Thanks.

[ross3000]

156. Drew a Circle that took him in

here's the full quotation

He drew a circle to shut me out,
Heretic, a rebel, a thing to flout,
But love and I had the wit to win.
I drew a circle that took him in

[ExPatLeftist]

158. Thanks for this. :) n/t

[high density]

3. Yeah this guy hits it

Clinton is creating her own reality just like Bush.

[NotThisTime]

18. Yup, the both have their own realities

[Tesha]

4. Into the ground? (NT)

[nichomachus]

5. Curse you -- you beat me

[Tesha]

7. Sorry! (NT)

[nichomachus]

6. What I look for in a president

is what I would look for in anyone I want to be a leader -- how they react under pressure.

The long campaign, if it does nothing else, shows how the candidates react when they're pressured, when they're tired, when they're stressed. After all, the world's biggest problems don't all come at 11 in the morning after you've had a good night's sleep -- and they sometimes come one on top of the other, and sometimes you have to make decisions under conditions of uncertainty, stress, fatigue, discouragement, etc..

Obama has performed admirably. Clinton has performed dismally and has offered nothing but excuses -- I misspoke, I was tired, I was stressed, it's somebody else's fault, you're picking on me. That's unacceptable.

[papau]

14. Obama in "just campaign talk" with David doing slease and lies is "acceptable"?

[nichomachus]

34. Please construct a rational argument and I will respond to it

[anigbrowl]

48. You've become a parody of yourself.

All you do any more is string a few buzzwords together to form an accusation and hurl it like a piece of poo.

[IsItJustMe]

72. Your a tool, that is for sure.

[progdonkey]

89. is that English with wordz is sense?

Wow, Hillary's loss really does have her supporters short-circuiting like an overworked computer. Clean up your registry and reboot, man! :freak:

[roseBudd]

136. Clinton in "just campaign talk" with Lanny Davis doing slease and lies is "acceptable"?

[Cha]

112. I look for someone to tell the truth and not be a warhog..

hilary failed. Obama has my support.

[Perry Logan]

8. Au contraire. Obama was the dirty one. See Sean Wilentz' "Race Man" in New Republic.

"A review of what actually happened shows that the charges that the Clintons played the "race card" were not simply false; they were deliberately manufactured by the Obama camp and trumpeted by a credulous and/or compliant press corps in order to strip away her once formidable majority among black voters and to outrage affluent, college-educated white liberals as well as college students. The Clinton campaign, in fact, has not racialized the campaign, and never had any reason to do so. Rather the Obama campaign and its supporters, well-prepared to play the "race-baiter card" before the primaries began, launched it with a vengeance when Obama ran into dire straits after his losses in New Hampshire and Nevada--and thereby created a campaign myth that has turned into an incontrovertible truth among political pundits, reporters, and various Obama supporters. This development is the latest sad commentary on the malign power of the press, hyping its own favorites and tearing down those it dislikes, to create pseudo-scandals of the sort that hounded Al Gore during the 2000 campaign. It is also a commentary on how race can make American politics go haywire. Above all, it is a commentary on the cutthroat, fraudulent politics that lie at the foundation of Obama's supposedly uplifting campaign."

http://www.tnr.com/toc/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

20. Iow: The double-reverse Clinton apologia.

[butterfly77]

26. What she did was played the republiCON card...

Mellon Scaife and "McCain is great but Obama just has a speech"...

[Forkboy]

30. Wilentz is a long time, hardcore Clinton fan.

[mod mom]

37. Yes, here the NYT called his presentation against Bill's impeachment "gratuitously patronizing "

-snip
For the most part, the Democratic case was well presented. Only a gratuitously patronizing presentation by Sean Wilentz, a Princeton historian, marred the Democratic experts' argument that Mr. Clinton's misconduct did not meet the constitutional tests for impeachment. The White House lawyer, Gregory Craig, adopted the conciliatory tone demanded by House Republicans. He said the President had ''personally instructed'' him to avoid legalisms and admit that Mr. Clinton was blameworthy, evasive and immoral, and had ''misled his wife and family, his friends and colleagues and our nation.'' But Mr. Craig could only squirm and backpedal when Republicans pressed him to explain his insistence that the President had not violated his sworn oath to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
-snip

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A05E0D8153AF93AA35751C1A96E958260

He is a long standing Clinton supporter.

[DeSwiss]

98. Not to mention the fact....

...that he sees his Secretary of Education job going down the gurgler along with her dimming prospects.

[Cha]

114. I wonder what job paul krugman sees going down the gurgler

with his incessant whining?

[fascisthunter]

41. You Kidding Yourself or Trying to Fool Others?

:think:

[ChairmanAgnostic]

42. ok, I have had it. welcome to my ignore.

I am sick and tired of watching spin. No, wait, that is not it. I am tired of BAD Spin. You aren't even creative about it anymore. It is though your blackberry gets the sTalking points, and you cut and paste it ad nauseum. Bye bye, Perry. Maybe when you return to the land of reality, your posts will read better. Say, after Denver.

[fascisthunter]

46. I Don't Even Think it's Spin

just BS lies..... deliberate. We need less liars in the Democratic Party and honest people who really give a damn. Integrity is not garnered by lies and spin.

[Cha]

116. I've had the pleasure of not seeing that

bullshit for what seems like months.

[beac]

50. So, somehow Obama's people MADE Bill dismiss Obama's

SC win with that condescending and vile "Jesse Jackson won South Carolina twice" comment????

And they MADE Hillary tout her strength with "white Americans" in West Virginia as if they were the most important voting block?????

Dayum, they sure are clever those Obama folks!

It always makes me laugh to see Clinton people bemoaning "the race card" while they skip around tossing out "the sex card" at every opportunity.


(And this falls the about-three-times-yearly I REALLY want to call and cancel my TNR subscription because they allow this kind of drivel in their pages.)

[wowimthere]

57. I'd rather believe my own eyes... "jesse jackson ran a good campaign in North Carolina too"

This was said in relation to Obama. Minimizing Obama's campaign every step of the way when he was winning contests was the mistake. How about this favorite tune, "He can't win!" and the whispered addendem... "because he's black".

Clinton should have never compared Obama to Jackson. He could made his point by choosing other candidates other than the other black candidate.

Who are you gonna believe? The media or your own eyes? I'll take my eyes any day over the media.

[Why Syzygy]

85. The Clintons had racial issues for 12 years in Arkansas. It didn't start with OB.

It's really pathetic that they try to portray others as they themselves are.

[earthlover]

121. Then there was Geraldine Ferarro spewing racial poison...saying Obama was only doing well because he

was lucky to be born black! Her comments since then confirm her small-mindedness. I guess Hillary Herd members don't see that as race baiting.

[Baby Snooks]

75. Oh, please...

She said what she said about "hardworking white voters" and do you expect us to believe he impersonated the governor of Pennsylvania?

Apologists for racists are themselves racists.

[BREMPRO]

86. racecard? how about WJC's discounting BO' s win in SC as same as JJ's?

or HRC's "hard working americans, white americans"?
Wilentz is FULL OF IT. I can't believe the blatent reality spinning going on here...reminds me of someone else- ROVE and GWB.

[CTLawGuy]

92. woah woah woah

"The Clinton campaign, in fact, has not racialized the campaign, and never had any reason to do so."

that is utter nonsense. Of course they had a reason to, to turn the "hard-working whites" they love so much against Obama by triggering their prejudices. Obama has been trying to avoid running as the "black candidate". Why? So maybe he can avoid the prejudices of some people that would forclose them voting for him.

[DeSwiss]

94. You forgot your sarcasm tag.....

- Here, you can use mine :sarcasm:

[Cha]

118. The 'Toonist do hilary justice.

[DeSwiss]

129. Oh thank you for this latest one!!!!

- Now I have the complete set!!!! I'll be the envy of my neighbors.....

[Cha]

137. Until the next ones come along..

[TheWraith]

105. Right, because Obama FORCED them to say all those things.

With his magical mind control powers.

And Wilentz is a fair and honest journalist. Just like Taylor Marsh. :sarcasm:

[KSinTX]

122. Clinton minimized Obama's victory after SC not NV

when Obama ran into dire straits after his losses in New Hampshire and Nevada

[Fancy Pants Elitist]

146. Not au contraire

lies, lies....

you have an interesting way of twisting reality. From Bill's comment about Jesse Jackson winning the South Carolina primary, they've twisted this to race from the beginning, when they realized that Super Tuesday was not a given. Tell me how exactly the Obama camp has twisted this racially? They HAVEN'T. you will have no real examples, just insinuations - oh and nuances. Unlike the fact that we (obama camp) have real examples of how the Clintons have race baited.

It's sad really, because Clinton has alienated people from her this way, of people who MIGHT have voted for her. I know most blacks that I know who had liked the Clintons before are totally alienated now because of their race-baiting, which they, unlike you, see clearly.

[nachoproblem]

148. Uh-huh

Because Obama is known for saying things like "Hillary Clinton has a stronger base to build a coalition on with the working, hard-working white voters" and such like. Also, he manufactured all those pseudo-scandals like Reverrend Wright and "Bittergate."

Look, blame the media all you like. They're always doing something wrong. But if you reckon Clinton is blameless then it's absurd to put anything on Obama with that brush.

[Fedja]

150. That's just another opinion

Even many of the HWWA (Hard Working White Americans) disagree with it. And it's not even about that. Obama played the race card by being born with dark skin. Every black person in the US plays the race card by simply existing, the society IMPOSES the discussion about race. Sad as it may be, anything a black person achieves (or fails at) today is seen by some segment of the population as either positively or negatively affected by skin color.

The real issue to me here is obliteration. Any candidate that pounces on talk of obliteration and threats in a region raped by violence and death instead of promoting humane approaches to foreign policy can... well, they can shove their wars where the sun don't shine. Hillary included.

[democrank]

9. Yes indeedy.

"Creating a bespoke reality out of whole cloth and then hoping people will not just buy it, but wear it."

[stratomagi]

10. YES! OMG! THANK YOU!

K&R!

[Bread and Circus]

11. I've been saying similar things here for a while. I keep wondering exactly how

things would be different under Clinton than Bush. I understand Clinton has good plans but I can see the moment her plans get sidetracked or blocked she will result to the same Orwellian tactics Bush employs.

[aquarius dawning]

12. Is that why more people have voted for her than for him then?

[Sulawesi]

21. So, you are saying her campaign is a success?

and by the way, more people have voted for Obama...as the article correctly states, and even Bill Clinton has implied.

[butterfly77]

27. Is that why many who voted for her..

now have buyer remorse since they have saw the real Hillary and they are now paying attention to Obama's policies and what he is saying instead of the media and the CONS.

Hillary keeps stressing she wants the votes counted in Michigan and Florida because she knows this, plus the fact that she is changing the rules as she has done throughout this campaign. This stuff about he can't win is garbage..

[aquarius dawning]

31. Ifr people were having buyer's remorse, you would think her numbers wouldn't be impriving

As it is, it looks more like people are having doubts about BO based on his diminishing performance.

[TheWraith]

106. Uh, you know her numbers have been going down for a month or more, right?

She's now drawing upper 30-percent range nationally.

[chervilant]

88. I just love

how functionally illiterate people are so gullible to drinking the kool-aid...

[chervilant]

161. Well, durn...

I had hoped the individual toward whom I had directed this egregious and unwarranted verbal assault would address my behavior in some way so that I could continue with my contention that our level of political discourse on this blog and in other venues had deteriorated to a deleterious level of verbal abusiveness.

I had hoped the individual on the receiving end of my comment might address the hurtfulness of my words so that I could ask said individual to identify with the feelings my bad comment engendered and understand that those feelings are likely shared by the majority of bloggers who find themselves on the receiving end of verbal abuse.

Please do not construe from this that I somehow blame this individual for his/her non-response. I find that quite a few people refuse to respond to verbal abuse. Those persons who respond typically respond in kind, or escalate the abuse to a higher level.

Instead, please accept my apology for this inappropriate comment. I apologize as well for attempting to use your initial comment and my response for some informal research regarding our species' rampant and expanding use of verbal abuse on the internets.

[jgraz]

28. No. That's why you THINK more people voted for her.

Well, that and a sad lack of critical thinking skills.

[aquarius dawning]

32. Technically speaking, more people have voted for her than for him according to RCP anyways.

............................................Obama............................Clinton........................

Popular Vote (w/FL & MI)** 17,262,155 47.5%------------17,426,809 47.9% Clinton +164,654 +0.45%

Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA* 17,596,239 47.6%------------17,650,671 47.7% Clinton +54,432 +0.15%

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

[jgraz]

33. Like I said, a sad lack of critical thinking skills.

This has been explained enough. If you don't understand it at this point, one more time isn't going to help you.

[aquarius dawning]

38. You can't imagine how surprised I wasn't to see that you resorted to insults

rather than making an actual argument.

[jgraz]

40. Actually, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt

Anyone still pressing the popular vote canard is either a) too thick to understand basic logic or b) a pathological liar like your candidate. If there's another option I'd love to hear it.

[aquarius dawning]

61. You still aren't making a point, you're just hurling insults. More people have voted for Hillary

than Obama. It's not about logic, it's about numbers. Here's the link again in case you missed it the last time: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html

[ima_sinnic]

70. if so (which is not knowable and a moot point), SO WHAT? that number has no place in this election

... this election is decided by number of pledged delegates. THAT IS ALL.
And if SOOOOO many people want Hillary, why don't they have enough confidence in her to send her campaign some money?? Hellooo??!! $31 million in debt? ripping off schools and commmunity halls? loaning her own campaign money??

It is also decided by superdelegates who have the privilege of lending support where they see most fit, and then changing their mind as the favorability of a candidate declines or improves. And so far, the USS Hillary is leaking superdelegates, and the rats are starting to jump off. So how come, if so many people want her, so many superdelegates AREN'T committing to her, ARE committing to Obama, and EVEN ARE SWITCHING from Hillary to Obama?

It couldn't have anything to do with the fact that she's a LOSER, could it?

[jgraz]

77. By pressing this issue, you insult the intelligence of everyone on this board

The popular vote canard is nonsense -- a transparent cover story for Hillary's 2012 strategy. I refuse to pretend that it's worthy of discussion.

[aquarius dawning]

84. Still don't have an argument, do you?

[Why Syzygy]

91. Still don't have a clue, do you?

[jgraz]

133. Thank you. Anybody else wants to help out that poor lost soul, feel free.

[TheMadMonk]

147. Let's try something simple here.

If a fair proportion of the popular votes for MI & FL are distributed to Obama, as would have happened if he's actually participated in those races, then Hillary's fictitious lead would immediately evaporate.

By "fair" I DO NOT MEAN "equal", nor even what he actually would have gotten if he'd contested (that is just too big an unknowable), simply some reasonable distribution of the vote. giving him the same 30 odd percent he polled in FL in MI alone, is sufficient to level the score and put him a smidgen (about 14,000) ahead.


This is so obvious, that only a person deliberately seeking to circumvent/rewrite the rules to give "their" candidate the victory, could possibly "overlook" it.

Your submissions repeatedly "overlook" the simple fact that, when given no other choice, well over 200,000 people in MI still said "not a chance" to Hillary. Read from that what you may.

There is no argument, because your your submissions do not merit argument. The errors and self serving misrepresentations within them stand out like dog's balls to anyone who looks.

That I bother to argue, suggests two things: 1) that I have too much time on my hands; and 2) that I might be related to Don Quixote.

[Grinchie]

45. Too bad those metrics are meaningless

[beac]

52. OK, let's have a vote...

Please vote for:


____ Candidate A


____ Undecided




Results:

Candidate A-- 100 votes

Undecided --- 100 votes


More people voted for Candidate A than Candidate B!!! WooHOO, Candidate A is the clear winner!!!

:puke:

[TheWraith]

107. Under your reasoning, the Soviet Union was a thriving democracy.

Because hey, as long as one-candidate elections are fair...

[ChairmanAgnostic]

43. in what bent universe did your math skills come from?

[aquarius dawning]

62. It is a fact that more votes have been cast for Hillary than Obama.

You can spin it any way you want to. I don't care. The fact remains, I am right and you are wrong. As of this moment, more votes have been cast for Hillary than Obama.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

66. the guardian (UK) article puts lie to your statement.

but truth really does not matter to your ilk, does it?

Go ahead, count votes that don't count (ignoring the millions who did NOT vote because their dem leaders fucked up) and ignore all the caucus goers.

blah, this crap from Hillaryan Aryans is really getting tiresome.

[aquarius dawning]

83. No it doesn't. More people HAVE voted for Hillary than Obama at this point.

You feel a need to apply spin to it, fine. That doesn't make it a false statement though.

BTW, all the caucus voters were included in the totals so whose ignoring them here?

[symbolman]

95. Yes, the Pantsuited Pandered has more "popular" votes..

and those were supplied by REPUBLICANS - so tell us again why you are so Proud of that..

Let's also mention that this isnt a fucking High School Prom, but a Real Election where Rules that create ORDER are involved, and those are Not to be Changed by the Candidate..

Simple enough for you? Sorry if the transmission from Reality Planet to Yours is Garbeled, we keep transmitting Fine from this end, maybe check your Receiver, put it in the shop til its Fixed :)

[HooptieWagon]

96. She only has more votes when she doesn't count caucus states she lost

Hillary doesn't want those votes counted, but she now wants to count the votes in MI and FL she previously agreed wouldn't count... that's twisted bushit logic, and hasn't 8 years of that been enough?

[D23MIURG23]

127. Thats actually an unprovable statement.

But mostly it is a meaningless statement. If this election was going to be about popular vote, it would have been structured that way from the beginning. It wasn't. It isn't. Case. Closed.

Finally, if you don't care about hundreds of thousands of disenfranchised Obama and Edwards voters in MI, then you don't really care about democratic processes at all. Just like Hillary doesn't really care about the will of the people unless they happen to be coronating her. Its really that simple.

[jdadd]

145. Would someone please bump that jukebox?

That worn out record is skipping again....

[Fedja]

151. Hi, I'm a reality check

Rumor has it Slobodan Milosevic once won 103% of the popular vote. True or false, he was the only candidate so a realistic estimate would be he won 100%.

Ain't democracy grand?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

44. in what bent universe did your math skills come from?

[beac]

51. That would be a perfect example of the custom-made suit of LIES the OP mentions.

[IsItJustMe]

76. You are exactly right. The same old worn out bull shit that is constantly being recycled. Sad.

[Why Syzygy]

93. It's the Cheney method of Deny, Deny, Deny. State lies as facts. Repeatedly.

[Medusa]

54. Ah yet another discounted Clinton talking point

do you people just accept wholesale every single lie that is uttered by Clinton's spin machine? This one is only true if you count states where the primaries were not valid (hello Michigan and Florida) and discount caucuses altogether which is exactly what the Clintonistas do. Again, it's intellectually dishonest or to put it in terms that Clinton supporters can easily understand: it's not true.

[Indenturedebtor]

58. I see you've bought that bit of nonsense? Thanks for proving the OP n/t

[IsItJustMe]

74. I don't think that is an honest arguement. But you go right ahead.

[DeSwiss]

97. Another fine graduate....

...of the Hillary School of Mathematics!

Congratulations! Sorry, but your job has been outsourced due to NAFTA!!!! Have a nice day!!!!

[smiley_glad_hands]

104. I wish I could live in a dreamworld too.

[K Gardner]

13. K&R

[uponit7771]

15. People, we should be THANKFUL that HRC was exposed this early. Had she been prez we could've been in

...deeper crap than where we're at right now.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

19. You got that right, but Hillary's closet-Republican tendencies have been showing for a long time.

[Cha]

119. Are you kidding?! The Forces of the Universe

were with us this time and against hilary rodham clinton.

She exposed herself as it were like no matter what she did her arrogant, fetid lies tripped her and she fell another level.



<snip>

"Yet the assassination reference wasn't Clinton's only mistake. In the same breath, she maintained that her husband had not wrapped up the nomination until June. In truth, he did so in March with the Illinois primary. While California made his victory a mathematical fact, the outcome had not been in doubt for months.

She also struck discordant notes in January when she said Martin Luther King's dream of racial equality was realized only when President Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and after her victory in the West Virginia primary earlier this month when she noted she was beating Obama among "working, hardworking Americans, white Americans."

In the current tempest over what Clinton said — and what she meant — the calendar may be the real culprit. She made a similar remark about the 1968 Kennedy assassination in March that received little notice then, probably because there were still plenty of state contests left and more uncertainty as to who would come out ahead.

Now, the longer the nomination race goes on, the more people are asking Clinton why she continues to campaign.

She insists she can win, but the mathematical explanations for how that can happen grow more fanciful by the week.

And without any clear explanation of how she can win, mentioning the Robert Kennedy assassination to some ears sounds like the last, desperate scenario of someone unwilling to admit defeat."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080524/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_remark

[hogwyld]

16. Excellent article!

K and R

[Tarheel_Dem]

17. What a splendid and truthful account of her disastrous campaign...k&r

[JVS]

22. ZING!

[Window]

23. K/R.

:kick:

[DeschutesRiver]

24. I agree 100%

am surprised it took this long for someone else in the newsprint world to state the obvious.

Hillary is a republican in tactics - to the surprise of her voter base, she would have been another third term of Bush, maybe even more so than McCain. Once elected, there wouldn't be any brakes on her actions.

[Medusa]

55. I've been saying the same exact thing for months now.

Her political campaign is absolutely all the evidence we need that she would be as bad or WORST than Shrub. I've had it with lying, dishonesty, and sleazy ethics. I've had it with gross mismanagement, incompetence, and politicans who blame anyone but themselves when they fuck up (which Clinton does almost every single day). And one more thing? Take a look at the sheer incompetence of the staff she has around her. I honestly believe they are as bad or worse than the Bush crew. I really don't want to elect Bush-style government to a third term and that's exactly what Hillary NeoCon from the state of NY (at least for the remainder of her term) would bring us.

[butterfly77]

25. Obama won nine in a row..

and then the republiCONS jumped in and started helping her to campaign but it still didn't work so now Hillary and her friends the CONS are really DESPERATE...

[frog92969]

49. Which doesn't comfort me AT ALL

Cornered animals you know.

[Renew Deal]

29. Cali better ask them to "stop it"

:D

[Utopian Leftist]

35. Magnificent article!

Well-stated in every way. K&R

[quantass]

36. K&R

[AtomicKitten]

39. That was screamingly evident on watching "Recount."

I couldn't get over the obvious parallel between the way the Bushies stormed the election process after the fact and the way the Clintons are trying to strong-arm the process with their bullshit and hubris.

Effin creep resemblance.

:scared:

[stillcool]

78. Yeah...I just watched that..

last night. Creeped me out. What a sad, inexplicable time that was, and continues to be. Ironic the timing with the latest Florida fiasco.

[phrigndumass]

47. K/R ... Good read, mod mom!

I was writing something to this effect back in March.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/phrigndumass/17

:D

[beac]

53. K&R!

This article "bespoke" the truth! ;)

[OhioChick]

56. K&R

:kick:

[Bensthename]

59. Thus the reason lots of people think she would be great on a McCain ticket

Hillary is Bush lite with Rove envy.

[Vattel]

60. This is better than most attacks on Clinton

Some attempt to be fair is made: "On Friday she was lambasted for intimating that she was staying in the race because, like Bobby Kennedy, Obama may yet be assassinated. It was clumsy. But a reasonable reading of the context shows she neither said nor meant anything of the kind." But it is somewhat unfair, perhaps not deliberately. I wonder if the writer actually heard Clinton's infamous "hardworking Americans, white Americans" remark. It's very different than reading it. She wasclearly self-editing as she spoke, and realizing that her support was not from hardworking Americans (since hardworking black Americans are for the most part not supporting her, she wanted to replace "Americans" with "white Americans." To not qualify it in that way would have implied that black Americans are not hardworking. Of course, one reason I favor this interpretation is that the race-baiting interpretation is pretty far-fetched since Clinton surely realized by then that such a strategy would fail. Of course, all of what I am suggesting will be seen by many as an attempt to spin her remarks. For those who care about being fair, though, listen to the youtube of the actual speech and see if you disagree with me.

[scarletwoman]

101. It's not the "hardworking" part, it's the "white" part. I heard the interview where she said this on

NPR myself, while I was driving home from work. As soon as those words came out of her mouth, my jaw literally dropped -- did she just say WHITE Americans?!?! I couldn't believe that any politician -- at least any DEM politician -- would say something so crass!

I heard it with my own ears. And I got it: she's the one that white people will vote for. There's nothing to spin out of it, it's exactly what it is.

Peace,
sw

[Vattel]

124. It's simply true

that working class whites tend to support Clinton over Obama. Working class blacks tend to support Obama over Clinton. It's just demographics. Don't read so much into it.

[cui bono]

64. Clinton insists she is winning the popular vote. She's right.

But only if you tally votes with the same degree of selectivity as Robert Mugabe.

ouchie.

[mod mom]

65. Not to mention that some of that popular vote she touts is Republican Cross-over votes

that she will not see should she be the nominee (especially since March 4 when McCain had secured the nomination):



16,000 Republicans in Cuyahoga crossed over and voted Democratic in primary
Sunday, March 09, 2008
Amanda Garrett
Plain Dealer Reporter

A staggering 16,000-plus Republicans in Cuyahoga County switched parties when they voted in last week's primary.

That includes 931 in Rocky River, 1,027 in Westlake and 1,142 in Strongsville. More than a third of the Republicans in Solon and Bay Village switched. Pepper Pike had the most dramatic change: just under half its Republicans became Democrats. And some of those who changed - it's difficult to say how many - could be in trouble with the law.

At least one member of the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections wants to investigate some Republicans who may have crossed party lines only to influence which Democrat would face presumed Republican nominee John McCain in November.


Those who crossed lines were supposed to sign a pledge card vowing allegiance to their new party...

-snip
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/120505162549970.xml&coll=2


Ohio GOP roots for Hillary

BY HOWARD WILKINSON | [e-mail]

One of the worst-kept secrets of the Ohio presidential primary is that Republican party leaders have a candidate they are rooting for on the Democratic side.

Her name is Hillary Clinton, and they believe that if she wins the Ohio primary and goes on to become the Democratic nominee, she will be the one who unites their dispirited and divided party and give them their best chance of keeping the White House this fall.

It is a belief that the Clinton campaign says is wrong-headed and they will campaign across the state for the next three weeks making the argument that their battle-tested, experienced candidate is the only one who can go toe-to-toe with John McCain, the presumptive GOP nominee this fall.

-snip

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080213/NEWS01/302130097






A movement is afoot ...

Some Republicans refer to it as "the plot."

It started a few weeks ago when conservative radio powerhouse Rush Limbaugh suggested that his Republican following cross over during the primary to vote for Clinton. Clinton, Limbaugh argued, would be easier for McCain to beat in November.

Soon, local morning radio show host Bob Frantz echoed Limbaugh on WTAM AM/1100, and the buzz began to grow.

-snip

http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/03/crossover_voting_was_heavy_and.html





▪ What might have actually happened in Ohio and Texas? Tin foil hat?
▪ Clip:
: "Rush, I understand that the Rush Limbaugh audience is mobilizing in Texas for Hillary. Am I hearing that right?"

: "I don't know if the audience is mobilizing or not. I am urging people — I am using a phrase — the Republicans — our nominee is chosen. It's John McCain.

Texas is open. And I want Hillary to stay in this, Laura. This is too good a soap opera. We need Barack Obama bloodied up politically, and it's obvious that the Republicans are not going to do it and don't have the stomach for it.

As you probably know, we're getting all kinds of memos from the RNC saying not to be critical there. Mark MacKinnon of McCain's campaign says he'll quit if they get critical over Obama.

This is the presidency of the United States you're talking about. I want our party to win. I want the Democrats to lose. They're in the midst of tearing themselves apart right now. It is fascinating to watch, and it's all going to stop if Hillary loses.

So yes, I'm asking to cross over and, if they can stomach it — I know it's a difficult thing to do to vote for a Clinton — but it will sustain this soap opera, and it's something I think we need. It would be fun, too."

http://www.thomhartmann.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=609&Itemid=113

[cui bono]

68. Yeah, it kills me how her winning would be because of the likes of Limbaugh

and uninformed bigots. She can really feel proud about that.

:eyes:

[Voice for Peace]

67. It's about fooling as many of the people as possible as much of the time as possible

and it won't work this time.

[bonito]

69. Yes, she definitely has that neocon shadow about her.

[IsItJustMe]

71. This is my reality of her, as god is my witness. It's not so much that I am for Obama, but I could

not even imagine the horror this country would go through with her leading the helm. And McCain, not much better.

Obama, well he is not that anyway. Perfect, hell no. But I do sense common decency and honesty in him, and I have always been a good judge of character.

[Hamlette]

73. hubirus....both of them think they are invincible.

It's actually been sad to watch such a smart woman implode like she has.

Getting by in this world, especially if you are a woman, requires a certain amount to tuning our the naysayers and pushing forward quite boldly, the problem with her is she didn't recognize that her advisers have an interest in her staying in the race and winning. That applies to all campaigns but at least the other candidates realized when it was over and got out.

She believes the BS Terry McA and Wolfson and Penn et al told her.

[dailykoff]

79. And that's giving her the benefit of the doubt.

Or to put it more bluntly, that's covering up for the Clintons bigtime. In no way does "a reasonable reading of the context" show that "she neither said nor meant anything of the kind." The "context" shows, in fact, that she's been making the same appalling statement for months, backed up by the ghouls on her vulture bus.

[concerned canadian]

80. K&R

"the general impression is that there is almost nothing she wouldn't do or say"

It's not just people on DU who are onto Hilliary...there are reasons that are obvious to many, many people why

she is becoming universally disliked and untrustworthy.

[rucky]

81. The real question is...

Why are the most powerful people in America acting like there's no tomorrow?

[DeSwiss]

100. Powerful, as in they can bench press 300 lbs????

Or powerful because they've been "in-power" too long and forgot they were our servants?

Why you ask?, are they acting like there's no tomorrow? Because its in their nature?

And because, well who the hell needs us?

Remember, they had already told us that she was the "winner" before the damn thing even got started.

So I'd say that they're acting like there's no tomorrow, because the picture of "tomorrow" that they're beginning to see doesn't include them "in-power." So how else could they act? Like losers????

[yourguide]

82. great read!

[thereismore]

87. Clinton insists she is winning the popular vote. She's right.

Clinton insists she is winning the popular vote. She's right. But only if you tally votes with the same degree of selectivity as Robert Mugabe.

:rofl:

[Deep13]

90. She didn't expect serious opposition and was unprepared for it.

Obviously, nothing about that subject line sentence is an excuse, so don't say I'm making any. Anyway, there is no correlation between campaign performance and job performance. Only successful campaigners get into office and most of them end up being disappointing. (Bush did not disappoint me because I knew he was a fuck-up before he ever got in.)

I'm sorry to say Obama seems to be following Bush's (really Rove's and Atwater's) campaign book. Apparently the lesson of '04 is that slander and false accusations made by surrogates while ones own hands stay apparently clean works.

[DeSwiss]

102. That reverse psychology course you took....

...was a ripoff. I'd make 'em give me my money back.

[Deep13]

132. Of course her criticisms came from her own mouth and Bill's...

...so in that way she failed to keep her own hands clean. Meanwhile, the sun is shining from Obama ass while the media and , well, you, do his dirty work. If every student writes the exact same paper, that is proof of cheating. If every one of you say the same thing at the same time, the same conclusion applies. Shit, there have been times when HC has said something and the hit pieces were posted faster than they could be written unless the writer really had nothing else to do but wait for instructions.

What HC should have done was recruit a bunch of internet and media devotees to spread slander. Instead of taking Obama at his word, she should have taken a page from his book and made a case for the closet Muslim thing. Unfortunately she made the same mistake that Dukakis, Gore, Kerry and to a lesser degree Bill Clinton did in assuming her case was strong enough that it would not be necessary to wage a whispering campaign. Maybe she tried to, but her fans were not such firebrands as to be willing to do it. I declined an invitation to be part of an internet "truth squad." Plus there was no way to overcome the misogynist bias in the media and political establishment.

So instead we are left with an empty-suit messiah who can't win in Ohio, Florida or Penna and if elected doesn't have enough clout to get any serious agenda through Congress or to manage the economy. Guess we did it again.

After eight years of arrogant, faith-based, incompetent rule, we are running an arrogant, faith-based incompetent candidate. Change abortion rights to gun rights and he pretty much is George Bush.

[LiberalLovinLug]

141. What "dirty work" are you talking about?

Defending himself from her onslaught? And we, the 'cheating students' are foolish to speak loudly and with one voice that Hillary's behavior is unacceptable. Because if a majority of Democratic voters come to a conclusion.....they MUST be wrong!??

And then you go on to suggest that Hillary should have played even dirtier. Win at all costs. Hire professional slanderers, and wage a whispering campaign. But then her 'fans' would not be willing, you say, because they're just so gosh darn sweet. Yeah we've had the pleasure of some of their company.

And then it all comes down to misogynist bias. Thatcher won back in the 80's in England. Corazon Aquino won in the Philippines. Benazir Bhutto would have surely won over the majority of Pakistan if she had lived (talk about misogyny). Even Aung San Suu Kyi won in Burma under harsher conditions (although under house arrest).

Hillary had the money, name, momentum, to start the race, but when she ran into adversity she took the low road. I believe that had she taken the high road and focused on McCain instead of Obama, or at least stuck to the advantages of her ideas vs. his, the issues, she could well be ahead in delegate votes. She chose to follow the Rovean plan. Now she's paying for it.

You Hillbots are the only ones calling him a "messiah". I do think he is the best thing to come along through the ranks of the Democrat party for a very long time though. And that 'empty suit' is going to own McCains empty suit come November. Believe it.

[DeSwiss]

152. The misogyny meme isn't going to cut it anymore....

....even while I'm the first to condemn it and have no problem in acknowledging its existence. That was the least of Hillary's problems. Her biggest issue is and always was, herself. I've been watching the Clinton Machine since the first model came online in the 80's as Billy Boy was our next door neighbor's guv. I didn't like him then, nor now. I always thought they were phonies. The whole point seemed to be to lie their asses off to get into office and then begin the pillage.

What's more troubling to me are these so-called Democrats who have found it so easy to smooth over Hillary's and Bill's blatant RACE-BAITING and outright LIES. And I get even more pissed when people try to tell me I don't know what I heard and saw her say!!!! I know a racist when I see one, believe me. And I've got the scars to prove it. They sat in judgment of Dubya doing this and castigated him for it, and rightly so. But when Hillary Lies and Lies and Lies, somehow she gets a pass? Bullshit. I've even read and heard some claim that it was Obama's craftiness that somehow "made" them do this. That well in advance, he plotted and planned to make use of tactics designed to induce them into race-baiting. How silly can one get? How far will people stretch, bend and twist reality in an effort to cover up the inadequacies of this woman?

And I must say that as a black person, I am highly insulted and offended at being thrown under the bus in her effort to win at all costs. I was a Democrat when Hillary was still hawking for the Repukes in Miami. I didn't see her in any of the civil rights demonstrations I participated in, in the 60s and 70s. To me she nor Bill has any credibility here. I have NO IDEA why she has any black supporters (including women) left at all! I don't know how she ever hoped to win even if she could undercut Obama somehow, because the carnage she's wrecked in the black community has forever expunged any notion that they are our allies. They've proven that principle is no factor when ambition is involved. But I knew this all along.

Suffice it to say that this whole campaign has been a wake-up call for me as far as the Democratic Party label is concerned. I strongly supported Howard Dean in his 50-state effort to reinforce the party at the grassroots. Something that Hillary and her DLC cronies tried to undercut from the start. But it has proven her undoing, so maybe she was prescient enough to know this at the time, although it did her no good. It is my hope that the likes of Hillary and Geraldine Ferraro and all the other race-baiters and liars and spin-machine operators scuttle on off-stage and into oblivion where they belong. The Democratic Party doesn't need people like this. Racists is what was in the Party in the 60s. which is when I came of age and became political myself. And when the civil rights legislation brought a semblance of fairness to the political process, most of those racists left and went to where they now reside -- in the Republican Party. Maybe she should consider them, if race-baiting is to be what her legacy is to become.

As for claiming she somehow has it over Obama in the ideas department, I ask you to look again. Look at HER record. Don't conflate Bill's efforts and add them to her own. What has SHE done, is the question. And when one looks closely, it amounts to so little that it can barely be called Democratic in my view. Talk about EMPTY SUITS. "Empty" is her middle name. Whatever positives I may have held about Hillary Clinton at the outset of this race have long since evaporated. And I would feel the same way with regard to ANY politician who has run such a sickening and morally-deficient campaign.

I have been castigated by so-called feminists who demand support for a person merely on the basis of their chromosome structure and that's bullshit as well. We sorely NEED a woman in the White House. We ALSO need at least half of the Congress populated by women. But I want women (and men) of moral integrity. Those who will at least take the time to read the intelligence reports and understand the issues involved when they are voting to send young people off to war to kill or be killed as she did when she voted for the Iraq War. And I'm prepared to even give such an individual some slack when they've made a mistake, provided they are prepared to admit it. Which she is apparently not capable of doing. It may be asking too much, but I'm a dreamer. As it became apparent that Obama had this campaign wrapped, I had initially hoped that maybe she could be on the ticket, or play a significant role in his administration should he win. But I can see now that even this isn't possible, nor wise in my view. There's no point in him beginning an administration with a fresh start and undercut himself with all her baggage and duplicity.

The only thing that I have left to say about Hillary at this point, is that even though I live in a state with two Repukes for Senators, I still feel even more sorry for New York.

[Fedja]

153. If she does somethig retarded

...and then thousands of people say "Wow, that was pretty damn retarded", it's not cheating. It's called "having eyes and ears".

[DeSwiss]

99. K... to the R!!!!

Great article! Maybe we can import this guy!!!

- Lord knows most of the ones we've got ain't worth squat....

[smiley_glad_hands]

103. They are dead to hill supporters now.

How will they sell papers now?

[Carolina]

108. great article

thanks for posting it.

[craz3z]

109. Disappointed yet not

I have to say that my opinion of the Clintons based on the campaign they have run has fallen off quite a bit since last fall, but I am quite happy we had so many quality candidates to choose from instead of being stuck with having to pick the one who made the fewest mistakes like that other party had to do.

[glitch]

140. That is a very positive view, welcome to DU! nt

[Cha]

110. America the gullible..

Courtesty of the m$$$fm and karl rove and now the m$$$fm and the bilarys via karl rove.

Gary Younge from across the Pond has given us an excellent account of hilary's failures and why they don't work except to the ones who didn't get enough of bush's FEAR CARDS...



"Then there is racism. The most recent example of which was her claiming that Obama's "support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again", as evidence of her own viability. Later she would concede that equating "white" and "hard- working" was a "dumb comment".

I'm waiting for her to CONCEDE that her whole campaign was a dumb comment on American History. It would have been spectacular with a woman of substance.

The best part is hilary done herself in.. "Like the Bush administration, the issue is no longer whether she leaves the stage with her reputation irreparably tarnished, but what state she leaves it in and how many people she is prepared to take with her."

[bvar22]

111. K&R

I have generally stopped kicking or recommending threads that are critical of Hillary because I feel that it is just needless piling on an already defeated opponent.... But in this case, I'm making an exception.

K&R

[juno jones]

113. Holy created reality Batman!

I read the article AND many of the comments. One comment by a McCain supporter that claims no torture is being used at gitmo and the accusation is just basically 'sour grapes' from a former prisoner. :banghead:

WTF?WTF?WTF?

Great article and very correct. We are living in an artificial construct right now. Our leaders are trying very hard to keep us from viewing the outside of our box. And succeeding often, it seems.

PS I have never had to use that 'smiley' before.....

[D23MIURG23]

115. Excellent column. kick.

[odelisk8]

117. well

how ELSE could she run it? she has squawked like a hawk for the past 5 years, revelling in the blood of Fallujah...some will never forgive W but seem to turn a blind eye to lady macbeth's death dreams...

she's the lead cheerleader on the death squad...

in NY we are going to send her back to Arkansas, or Illinois, or that shack in Scranton or wherever she comes from tomorrow...

[Triana]

120. BINGO! The Guardian is spot on! n/t

[Overseas]

123. Beautifully said !! K&R

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

125. Just like George Bush n/t

[New Dawn]

126. K&R

[paulk]

128. well, there's some unbiased reporting...

:sarcasm:

[DeSwiss]

131. I believe that it is permissable....

...to render OPINIONS in an opinion column. Which is what the "Comments Are Free" section is.

- As a matter of fact, its kinda expected....

[paulk]

134. it's also permissable to render opinions

on an opinion column...

[ExPatLeftist]

138. AND opinions about the opinions espoused about an opinion column. Back to you... n/t

[DeSwiss]

159. Nuck, nuck, nuck..... n/t

[RNdaSilva]

135. It will be over next week...

What will Hillary and some of her math-deficient trolls find to cling to? Hopefully Hillary, and Bill, will become avid supporters of the candidate--Barack Obama.

Hillary WILL NOT be the Democratic Party's candidate...you can fantasize to the contrary but a fantasy is still a fantasy.

Even Jimmy Carter, et al., would agree:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL2562414520080525 (Jimmy Carter)

http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/01/superdelegates-who-havent-endorsed.html (The delegates, it's the delegates that count)

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/ (The polls, not just a select poll)

Again, the delegate count selects the candidate not a contrived popular vote supported by Rush Limbaugh and the Clinton's. If someone cannot understand that than they probably also don't understand the Electoral College. Gore won the popular vote...Bush is the President.

Once Hillary is outed, next week, the general election polls will become more realistic.

Damn, I wanted to see a 200 delegate lead for Obama today...only a 198 delegate lead, 2 shy.

Luck!

p.s. Yes, it really is over.

[ExPatLeftist]

139. Oh shit. England just got thrown under the bus.

They must all just be a bunch of Clinton-haters... :mad:


Wonder how many people from far and wide will have to say the same thing before some of the die-hards here admit that maybe, just MAYBE some of the anger pointed at the Clintons is their own doing rather than some sort of conspiracy.

[andres hunter]

142. A Guardian columnist; not the Guardian as a whole

It's like saying that Maureen Dowd is the New York Times.

[Janeite]

143. Great article, thanks

[McCamy Taylor]

144. When a journalist compares the Clinton campaign to the Holocaust wake me up so I can throw something

This one seems pretty run of the mill journalistic-idiot-2008 which is a new artistic category which I have come up with the describe the genre that members of the press have developed just for this election.

[dkf]

149. Ouch.

I must say, she has been reminding me of Bush lately. Bill and Hillary are trying to gaslight us constantly.

[quickesst]

154. Obama fans....

"May 23, 2008 10:23 PM

This evening Robert Kennedy Jr., who has endorsed Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., cautioned folks not to be offended at Clinton's mention of his father's assassination when discussing why she was staying in the race and how there was precedent for the primaries lasting until June.

In a statement, Kennedy Jr. said: “It is clear from the context that Hillary was invoking a familiar political circumstance in order to support her decision to stay in the race through June. I have heard her make this reference before, also citing her husband's 1992 race, both of which were hard fought through June. I understand how highly charged the atmosphere is, but I think it is a mistake for people to take offense.” ABC News




.....letting us know they believe Robert Kennedy Jr is as disgusting as they believe HRC is. Also telling us that some twit in England has a better perspective on what HRC said, and the context, than Bobby Kennedy's own son. If there are any comparisons to Bush, the op is a fine example. The difference being, Clinton haters have discovered a whole new level of disgusting, dishonest, and shameful tactics as to make the Bush campaign of 2000 seem civilized by comparison.

quickesst

[mod mom]

155. Did you bother to READ the op-ed piece? It appears you did not, as it states:

"On Friday she was lambasted for intimating that she was staying in the race because, like Bobby Kennedy, Obama may yet be assassinated. It was clumsy. But a reasonable reading of the context shows she neither said nor meant anything of the kind. Her problem is that by now the general impression is that there is almost nothing she wouldn't do or say. It would indeed take something that dramatic and tragic for her to win."

Perhaps if you actually read the text you might be able to make a valid point instead of your weak argument dismissing it as another Clinton hater. It's easier to play the victim, though.

[ExPatLeftist]

157. You use the words of individuals

and then draw the conclusion that "THEY" (meaning Obama supporters) believe... something.

All people are individuals, and everyone has their own take. While it may be easier for you to assume that there are only 2 or 3 views on any topic when there are actually MILLIONS, it does not make you right. You do not know me and do not have a clue what I think, except for what I personally say or write. I share as much in common with every single Obama supporter as I do with all people with brown eyes - one fucking minor trait. So please dump the small mindedness.

Broad brush, fearmongering, and "Us vs. Them" mentality is something Bush has made even more of an issue than it already was. Let's let that kind of thinking leave with him.

[Egnever]

160. Ive been saying this for weeks

[FrenchieCat]

162. I called it long ago!