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DesEtoiles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:20 AM
Original message
Hillary's senior thesis taught her how to Swiftboat Obama: >>>
Can a college research paper really be the Rosetta Stone to deciphering a candidate's politics or character?

That is the question raised in this http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17388372/page/2/ MSNBC article about Hillary Clinton senior Wellesley thesis on Chicago community organizer and controversial figure Saul Alinksy.

The MSBNC article states that, when Hillary was first lady, the Clintons demanded and received Wellesley's compliance in sequestering Hillary's thesis. All Wellesley gradauates' senior papers are normally available for public viewing. But, for a time at least, Hillary's was not - at the Clintons' order. The MSNBC reporter found out that the thesis can now, however, be viewed if you want to put in the time and effort to go to Wellesley and read it.

The revealing information uncovered by the MSNBC article gives an insight into Hillary's character and tactics, and seems to explain why the Clintons would want the thesis to remain hidden.



The confident young student took her thesis title — “There Is Only the Fight...” — from T.S. Eliot:

...

Rodham opened the thesis by casting Alinsky as he cast himself, in a “peculiarly American” tradition of democrats, from Thomas Paine through Martin Luther King. “Democracy is still a radical idea,” she wrote, “in a world where we often confuse images with realities, words with actions.”



This, I think, should be highlighted as indicative of Hillary's Rovian understanding of how to manipulate public perceptions: “in a world where we often confuse images with realities, words with actions".

If there was any doubt left, Hillary knows exactly what she is doing when she raises the spectre of Selma and women's suffrage. It is her deliberate purpose to try to tie Barack to the negative images people have of those events, trying to use her words to taint him with wrongful actions.

Hillary's ugly and dishonest shell game.

More from the MSNBC article. Alinsky is a key figure in the political history of both Hillary and Barack:





Her options after graduation were attending law school at Harvard or Yale, traveling to India on a Fulbright scholarship, or taking the job with Alinsky's new training institute, which would have allowed her to live in Park Ridge with her parents, Hugh and Dorothy Rodham, and commute into Chicago..

“His offer of a place in the new institute was tempting,” she wrote in the end notes to the thesis, “but after spending a year trying to make sense out of his inconsistency, I need three years of legal rigor.” She enrolled at Yale that fall, a year ahead of a charming Rhodes Scholar from Arkansas.

...

A decade later, another political science major started out on the path that Hillary Rodham had rejected, going to work for a group in the Alinsky mold. That was Barack Obama, now a U.S. senator from Illinois and her leading opponent for the Democratic nomination. After attending Columbia University, he worked as an organizer on the South Side of Chicago for the Developing Communities Project. Obama and others of the post-Alinsky generation described their work in the 1990 book “After Alinsky: Community Organizing in Illinois,” in which Obama wrote that he longed for ways to close the gap between community organizing and national politics.



While she seemed to take away only negatives from Alinsky's teachings, Barack used what he learned as a positive tool for change. Additional evidence, if we needed any, that HIllary is old-school, while Barack represents the politics and political conscience of the future.

Perhaps the most important point from the MSNBC article:





Turning to an expert at using Alinsky's tactic -- picking a target, freezing it, personalizing it and polarizing it -- Chris Lacivita can also envision such an ad.

Lacivita co-produced the "Swift Boat" ads in the 2004 presidential race questioning Democratic Sen. John Kerry’s Vietnam service. He told MSNBC.com that no fact from a candidate's life is too old for negative advertising.

"I think the last election cycle proved that there's no statute of limitations," said the Republican political consultant. "What someone did or said 35 years ago is certainly fair game, especially if you're running for president of the United States.



Picking a target.

Freezing it.

Personalizing it.

Polarizing it.

Swiftboating.

This is exactly what Hillary is doing to Barack. She is slandering him, in a calculated, manipulative way, with the intention of deceiving the voters. Barack Obama is a sexist. Barack Obama is an elitist. Barack Obama is trying to suppress the vote. More examples here.

Hillary is a student of Alinsky. She knew him well when she wrote her thesis about him. You better believe that what she is doing now is a deliberate strategy that she learned from him.

My question for Hillary - why in the hell did you save these tactics for a fellow Democrat, instead of using them against George Bush?

I want no part of a Hillary Clinton presidency. By this campaign, she has shown that there is no limit to how low she will go to get what she wants. No outrageous lie she will not tell. No moral compass of personal integrity or rules of decency and fair play that guides her. She has lost all perspective. It's all about Hillary.

From an article by Christopher Hayes in The Nation:

political identities were formed in the crucible of crisis, from the Gingrich insurgency to the Ken Starr inquisition. The overriding imperative was survival against massive odds, often with a hostile public, press or both. Like an animal caught in a trap that chews off its leg to wriggle away, the Clinton crew by the end of its tenure had hardly any limbs left to propel an agenda. The benefit of this experience, much touted by the Clintons, is that they know how to fight and how to survive. But the cost has been high: those who lived through those years are habituated to playing defense and fighting rear-guard actions. We know how progressives fared under Clintonism: they were the bloodied limbs left in the trap.


Hillary Clinton. There is only the fight. This is not the mentality of a person who belongs in the White House.

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Saturday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. This is garbage and it does nothing to heal the Democratic party. nt
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DesEtoiles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. yes, what Hillary is doing IS garbage and SHE is doing nothing to heal the party.
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Democrat 4 Ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Your opinion. Like assholes, everyone has one.
Next thing you know the Obama Maniacs will be pulling out the Bill smoked but didn't inhale statement. College paper? Really? You guys are DESPERATE.
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 05:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
30. somebody lied about smokin weed ?
:wtf:
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JTFrog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
34. Her campaign looked fairly desperate in Kindergarten Papers-gate. n/t
Edited on Tue May-27-08 06:01 AM by JTFrog
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. When Hillary attacks, it means she's tough
When people call her on it, they're accused of "not healing."

Up is down
Black is white
War is peace
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DesEtoiles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I'm ignoring you now.
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Saturday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Praise the Lord!!! nt
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. It is the usual Obana fan posting crap -not noticing it was Obama smearing Hillary for a year
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 05:35 AM
Response to Reply #7
32. can you prove it
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hokies4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. I've read some of your garbage anti-Obama posts today
Make sure to open the window before throwing stones out of your glass house. :rofl:
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
27.  Democratic Party wouldn't need healing if the Clintonistas weren't tearing it apart...
...in order to divide and rule.
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
29. what the hell you talking about healing the party when Clinton supporters are on Fox
Edited on Tue May-27-08 05:21 AM by democracy1st
ranting and raving about how fair the Fox News network has been and how elite and out of touch the democrats are. Yes you really know what you're talking about
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
6. Interesting how much Swiftboating is similar to the Deconstructionist
movement in Literature. Just as HC has never demonstrated that really knows how/what "the Third Way" really is, there were those in Literary Criticism who never got that the whole point of Deconstruction was the RE-Construction of something genuinely New.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. Good point
and prescient too.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Just as Noam Chomsky says, a big part of the struggle that is upon us and the even bigger one that
is on its way to us, is what things mean. This is one of the reasons that Artists, even if they aren't recognized financially, are some of the most important people there are.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
8. The Clintons are like reptiles. Their behavior= flight or fright. They ignore guidance from their
Higher Self but remember to use that rhetoric as a mask.


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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
9. Kick & MFKING R!'d!! nt
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
10. Read it for yourself. Here:
It is not a Democrat frinedly site

http://www.gopublius.com/HCT/HillaryClintonThesis.html

Folks who comment on Clinton's thesis in the associated blog for the most part see it as proof that she has always been a radical leftist. For example:

"Yes, it is good we can all read her thesis. We all should know about her far left leanings, her connections to Marxist, Maoist, and Communist. Her need to be God-like in her pronunciations of how everyone should and must live in her utopian world. Power happy, power grubbing, greedy, excessively hypocritical, living off the fat of every handout she can get. What a disgrace to our country.

If she is so keen on everyone being equal, she lives in a multi-million dollar house? Why not sale it? And distribute the money thru Marxist-Communist outlets? After all, it was not their money to begin with. She is a complete hypocrite.

Non of us are perfect, but frankly I’m tired of the holier-than-thou critics on the left who live in a life of luxury preaching to the masses that they know what is right and we should all live equally by her socialist solutions. That we all should kneel to government enforced solutions form the leftist agenda. This nation was not formed in such a way. Our Founding Fathers new then that the model to follow was not France, nor Alinsky.

Who says we must live a certain way? What kind of lost idiot produces this utopian myth? Someone who is clueless and easily swayed, not by Christ or by God, but by a crush on Carl Oglesby, a Marxist/Maoist pig..."
http://gopublius.com/hillary-clintons-wellesley-thesis/#comment-1524

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DesEtoiles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. I'm most interested in the swiftboating aspect
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DesEtoiles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
12. .
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. Who is Lacivita?
I've never heard that name before. Has he been in the GOP for long?
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
16. Fool me once...

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DesEtoiles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
19. .
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
20. i posted about this in january
only a few replied..i guess no one noticed just who she is....
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JohnnyLib2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
21. Slippery slope, m'dear.
Edited on Mon May-26-08 05:35 PM by JohnnyLib2
RW and conservative sources have attempted to use the Alinsky-tactic-smear on both Obama and Clinton all along. Indeed, the name "Alinsky" is a common code word for "agitator/Commie/leftist/'them'.


I won't bother citing RW sources and having that become a target: simply Google for Obama Kruglik or Obama Alinsky.
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
22. Irony of ironies
According to her Wikipedia entry, Hillary allegedly left the GOP because she didn't like the way Nixon trashed his opponent in the primary and because of the "veiled racism" of his campaign.
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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-26-08 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
23. Except Obama was trained in Alinksy method. He altered it
Edited on Mon May-26-08 06:45 PM by jbnow
Barack Obama's unlikely political education.
The Agitator>

Obama's work focused on helping poor blacks on Chicago's South Side fight the city for things like job banks and asbestos removal. His teachers were schooled in a style of organizing devised by Saul Alinsky, the radical University of Chicagotrained social scientist. At the heart of the Alinsky method is the concept of "agitation"--making someone angry enough about the rotten state of his life that he agrees to take action to change it; or, as Alinsky himself described the job, to "rub raw the sores of discontent."
(snip)
Kruglik remembers this episode as an example of why, in ten years of training organizers, Obama was the best student he ever had. He was a natural, the undisputed master of agitation, who could engage a room full of recruiting targets in a rapid-fire Socratic dialogue, nudging them to admit that they were not living up to their own standards. As with the panhandler, he could be aggressive and confrontational. With probing, sometimes personal questions, he would pinpoint the source of pain in their lives, tearing down their egos just enough before dangling a carrot of hope that they could make things better.
(snip)
Yet Obama connects his past as a Chicago organizer to his presidential bid with surprising ease. Last month, during his first visit to South Carolina since his campaign announcement, we discussed his community-organizing days. He sat at the head of a long table inside a dimly lit hotel conference room in Columbia and ate a chocolate energy bar. When I began to suggest links between his organizing work then and his current campaign, he interrupted: "I think there is. I don't think you need to strain for it." He was at home talking Alinskian jargon about "agitation," which he defined as "challenging people to scrape away habit," and he fondly recalled organizing workshops where he learned the concept of "being predisposed to other people's power."
(snip)

Obama's self-conception as an organizer isn't just a campaign gimmick. Organizing remained central to Obama long after his stint on the South Side. In the 13 years between Obama's return to Chicago from law school and his Senate campaign, he was deeply involved with the city's constellation of community-organizing groups. He wrote about the subject. He attended organizing seminars. He served on the boards of foundations that support community organizing. He taught Alinsky's concepts and methods in workshops. When he first ran for office in 1996, he pledged to bring the spirit of community organizing to his job in the state Senate. And, after he was elected to the U.S. Senate, his wife, Michelle, told a reporter, "Barack is not a politician first and foremost. He's a community activist exploring the viability of politics to make change." Recalling her remark in 2005, Obama wrote, "I take that observation as a compliment."


But here is where hew made it fit who he was more...
But, although he was a first-class student of Alinsky's method, Obama also saw its limits. It appealed to his head but not his heart. For instance, Alinsky relished baiting politicians or low-level bureaucrats into public meetings where they would be humiliated. Obama found these "accountability sessions" unsettling, even cruel. "Oftentimes, these elected officials didn't have that much more power than the people they represented," he told me.

At one meeting, where residents of an asbestos-laden housing project confronted their property manager about whether their homes had been tested, Obama suddenly had the urge to warn his target. "I wanted to somehow let Mr. Anderson know that I understood his dilemma," Obama wrote in Dreams, with the kind of empathy that is the hallmark of his autobiography. He was sometimes more interested in connecting with folks on the South Side than organizing them. He studied the characters he encountered so closely that Kruglik says Obama turned his field reports into short stories about the hopes and struggles of the local pastors and congregants with whom he was trying to commune.
Where some of Alinsky's disciples speak of his work with religious fervor, Obama maintained some detachment during these years.
(snip)
The church also helped Obama develop politically. It provided him with new insights about getting people to act, or agitating, that his organizing pals didn't always understand. "It's true that the notion of self-interest was critical," Obama told me. "But Alinsky understated the degree to which people's hopes and dreams and their ideals and their values were just as important in organizing as people's self-interest." He continued, "Sometimes the tendency in community organizing of the sort done by Alinsky was to downplay the power of words and of ideas when in fact ideas and words are pretty powerful. We hold these truths to be self-evident, all men are created equal.' Those are just words. I have a dream.' Just words. But they help move things. And I think it was partly that understanding that probably led me to try to do something similar in different arenas."


I know I posted a lot but it is a very long article, gives a great deal of info on the method.
Obama is not unarmed but he is more subtle and graceful at it...a warmer version
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dreamnightwind Donating Member (863 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 04:37 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Thanks...
That was an excellent post and a good read for me.
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DesEtoiles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
24. .
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
25. ....
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Donkey_Punch_Dubya Donating Member (170 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 05:12 AM
Response to Original message
28. Of course we unfortunately have to also apply this to
Michelle Obama. Her princeton senior thesis was about how she expected all black princteon alumni to feel like all white princeton people treated them badly, but was surprised that they didn't feel that way. I guess we have to make some statement that she thinks white people are not capable of treating black people decently.

Of course that is pretty silly to me, people's senior thesis topics usually have little relevance 20-30 years later and should not be used to make negative conclusions about them. And more importantly, a thesis like that is often not a description of one's own values, but an investigation of some academic question. There was a thread about this a while ago and Obama supporters all felt the way I do.

We would want to apply the same reasoning to both people, right?

I think you can see where this is going.
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 05:26 AM
Response to Original message
31. Perhaps so
but not in a particularly effective way.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-27-08 05:41 AM
Response to Original message
33. Now we're into meta-swiftboating?
Picking a target: Hillary
Freezing it: Senior Thesis (?)
Personalizing it: Alinsky
Polarizing it: Hillary/Alinsky bad; Obama/Alinsky good (??)

I think we both agree that the end product (Hillary) is defective - I'm just not sure if this really describes the process of how she got there. Seems like a stretch to me.
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