What a perfect time for me to leave DU for good!

[lwcon]

This weekend's display of hateful groupthink was the perfect capper for a season in which "unity" became merely a euphemism for capitulation.

Capitulation to a kneecapping candidate, and capitulation to Ronald Reagan's "party of ideas," a wrongheaded and disempowering fantasy of post-partisan detente with the corrupt, ruthless, authoritarian, and valueless GOP.

Who would have guessed that in this potentially great year for our party that DU would become dedicated to defaming and dehumanizing the Democratic candidate who has received the most votes, the most support in swing states, and strong support in states that would add up to an electoral win.

That keeping Florida votes from being counted would become an almost religious quest here.

That we'd be the party that's drunk on truthiness.

As faux Yoko whispered at the end of the National Lampoon's "Magical Misery Tour"...

"The dream is over."

___

The Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy, now at my new home: Correntewire.com

[SeattleGirl]

1. Florida broke the rules.

What is it about that that you don't understand?

[anigbrowl]

3. Save your energy.

[madmunchie]

296. What about the voters that actually ABIDED by the announcement that their votes wouldn't count so

stayed home and didn't vote? How will their votes be accounted for? How about the fact that because the candidates agreed about Florida and Mich - they didn't campaign and weren't even on all of the ballots? How will THAT get fixed? How about the caucus states, why are their votes being disenfranchised? Come on, even sports games have rules that they stick to and RESPECT. I agree with you anigbrowl, but it doesn't make any sense does it?

[smalll]

33. We don't understand the Old Testament Justice you Obamatrons are bent on inflicting

on the ELECTORATES of Florida (and Michigan) to punish something some ELECTED OFFICIALS did.

[LaurenG]

64. Hypothetically, what if this were reversed and it was John McCain Vs Senator Clinton

What if she had followed the rules and McCain didn't and then McCain had done what Senator Clinton is now doing?

It all depends on what angle you see from.

[Mezzo]

66. we prefer to deal with reality as opposed to your hypotheticals.

he doesn't have an electoral map, and you know it.

[LaurenG]

68. You prefer to deal with someone trying to cheat

and then do what with that cheating?

I understand from what I've been reading around here that anything goes when it comes to Senator Clinton, no rules apply and if rules don't meet her expectations get rid of them.

It shows no integrity, some things never change.

[Mezzo]

237. Oh please. Talk to the people in michigan who stood up to be counted...and THEN try to tell me who'

who's cheating. If you're a teacher in mich, or a truck driver, or whatever, you had NO SAY in your primary other than being told what day your primary is being held. Howard Dean gets into a pissing contest to appease IOwa, and YOU think it's okay to NOT count votes? You're a republican freeper...that's how these guys act:

[stahbrett]

241. Uh, Hillary was completely fine with Michigan and Florida's elections not counting

She's quoted as saying as much, and she signed a pledge to not participate in those elections.

Michigan and Florida will be represented at the convention, but they will not be allowed to be the deciding factor in the nomination process. That seems like a very fair approach - don't reward them for breaking party rules, yet allow them to still have a presence in Denver.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

277. Terry McAuliffe 2004:"take it to the bank. They will not get a credential."

Michigan tried same shit in 2004. Hillary's buddy Terry McAuliffe wouldn't allow Michigan to jump ahead in 2004. But his ethics and rules go out the window when the rules don't fit his needs.
NOW he wants the rules changed AFTER its clear Hillary needs the rules changed. After the game.

AMERICAN MORNING
John Roberts May 29 CNN

Scott McClellan Speaks Out About his Tell-All Book; Massive Evacuation in China; Is Hillary Clinton a Presidential Short-Timer?

Aired May 29

Roberts talking to James Carville:

...Carl Levin of Michigan wanted to move Michigan's primary out of the regular schedule. And McAuliffe said you do that, I'm going to take away your delegates. Carl Levin according to Terry McAuliffe in this book insisted that he wouldn't take away the delegates. And this is what Terry said in response.

"Carl, take it to the bank. They will not get a credential. The closest they'll get to Boston will be watching it on television. I will not let you break this entire nominating process for one state. The rules are the rules. If you want to call my bluff, Carl, you go ahead and do it."

So four years ago, James, he's saying you go out of the process, you are not going to go to Boston, which is where the Democratic convention was. Now he's saying, oh, we've got to get those delegates seated.
.....

[cyndensco]

185. If you really prefer to deal with reality,

why are you still thinking clinton has a chance at the nomination?

[northzax]

224. I thought we were the party

that bent over backwards to help people vote, and republicans tried to make it harder. are we supposed to be proud to belong to the party that allowed the opposition party to disenfranchise two entire states without putting up a fight? You sound like you are.

[LaurenG]

240. I think they should get to vote, I have already stated that this was

a stupid thing for them to have done.

[Hoof Hearted]

235. I don't have any angles where the DISENFRANCHISEMENT of voters is acceptable.

I'm one of those crazy bitches who still thinks votes should be counted - always. Once upon a time, that was a tenant of the party. I have a strong feeling I'm about to become an independent.

[Exilednight]

75. Who in Florida elected those officials? n/t

[spoony]

208. Not psychics

who thought that voting for someone would cost them their right to vote later. I still can't comprehend these "she was dressed like a tramp and asking for it" posts about MI and FL. How the hell do so many of you just dismiss millions of fellow Dems?

[Exilednight]

209. You're comparing what happened with MI and FL to rape? That's pretty desperate, but ........

if that's the analogy you chose, then consider this; no one objected.

[cosmicsheep]

110. So how about a 50/50 split?

That seems like it would be "fair", no?

[SwampG8r]

176. yes a 50/50 split is fair to me

and i am a floridian
now watch the hillbots shoot that idea down
im a gonna make a thread as soon as i can
see if they really believe what they say

[bvar22]

124. Direct your anger where it belongs:

The Republican friendly Florida State "Democrats" who are responsible.

[polmaven]

248. Do you HONESTLY think

the Florida Democrats had ANY say in the matter? They are badly outnumbered and the Governor is being suggested as a possible VP candidate.

I know, I know...but, but. but some of them voted FOR it! Yes...because, from what I understand, the amendment to change the date to one acceptable by the DNC, was attached to another piece of legislation that was not one that should pass. They were outnumbered and would have lost even if they voted YES, so, in order to defeat the main bill, they voted NO.

Please correct me if I am wrong on this...It is entirely possible that I have misunderstood, but that is what I have read.

I don't think that, even it had been a stand alone bill, the Democrats could possibly have won the vote. It is absolutely wrong, in my opinion, to disenfranchise the Democratic voters because of the Republican legislature.

[PassingFair]

198. The "elected officials" interference INVALIDATED the results.

Counted or NOT counted, the vote is
NOT representative of the will of the
people.

Florida and Michigan blew it.

It is FUBAR.

[ginnyinWI]

217. they will be seated. there's a meeting this weekend to decide how. nt

[CaptJasHook]

258. If your candidate wanted to be reasonable about it, it wouldn't be a problem

Be patient. Wait for June 3rd. Find an equitable solution that doesn't break the established rules or penalize the candidates (Obama for instance) that played by the rules.

Is it any fairer to give Hillary all the votes just because she didn't pull her name off the Michigan ballet. Is it fair to give Hillary all the Florida votes when she broke the rules and campaigned in Florida?

How about if after June 3rd, Florida and Michigan don't make any difference at all? Will you all sit down then? Or will you continue to fight until the convention and kill the Democratic chances at the White House.

The Obama camp is on the side of rationality on this one. Hillary is the one who is desperate and acting irrationally.

[VotesForWomen]

35. yeah, console yourself with that when we lose the GE.

[Doityourself]

54. If we lose the GE, then we do. Believe it or not life goes on. I won't be held hostage by Hilda fans

pissed off at the entire party because she ran a fucked up campaign and couldn't win the primary.

At this point, fine, then let us lose..as long as she doesn't get her way.

[DailyGrind51]

67. Don't worry about the GE!

McCain will have little power with Democrats enjoying veto-proof majorities in Congress.

[me b zola]

140. Are you saying that you are working to defeat our Democratic nominee?

[Straight Shooter]

148. I don't think that's what DailyGrind51 is saying.

I think there are many people who will abstain voting for Obama but they will certainly vote Dems downticket to ensure a veto-proof majority of Dems in Congress. In other words, McCain will be hogtied.

In all fairness, I think the same scenario would happen if Hillary were the nominee. Obama supporters would abstain in sufficient numbers to deny her being POTUS, but they would offset that abstention by voting Dems downticket.

[VeraAgnes]

44. Do you have a soul?

Do you harm puppies? I would never want to share a meal with you or even accidentally meet you.

You will learn on Saturday that the rules violated the inalienable right to vote and have the Party vote be recorded.

A political party is formed only for the purpose of gathering like minds to wherein they can channel their voice as one, represented by each member casting a vote. Fines are acceptable but are in the form of monies, not with the silencing of its members....that is Communism.

[Missouri Girl]

95. Here's what I DO NOT understand.

Everyone talks about the rights of voters being violated, voters being disenfranchised.

Where in the Constitution does it provide that any person will have the RIGHT to vote in the primary process? There is none that I am aware of. It is a private party election system, which the STATE governments (NOT Federal) government host/sponsor/run, etc.

That argument is utter bullshit. Find something else to bitch about.

[dsc]

103. actually the SCOTUS did

when the racist governments of places like Mississippi tried the very same type of argument to say they could have whites only primaries.

[Redbear]

108. Great point.

Smith v. Allwright stopped Texas' White Primary because the primaries were an integral part of the State election process. You cant deny the right to vote and then claim the law doesn't apply to you because you are private.

[Hugabear]

147. Apples and oranges - that decision does NOT apply to the current situation

In that case, the SCOTUS said that states could not disallow people to vote based on the color of their skin.

Neither Florida nor Michigan told anyone that they could not vote. Nobody was kept away from the voting booths.

Sorry, but the Constitution does not get involved in a political party's internal affairs.

Hell, the Libertarian Party just picked their nominee out of several candidates. I don't recall seeing any Libertarian Primaries across the country.

[CreekDog]

287. parties can run primaries according to their rules as long as they don't violate

law.

so having requirements for primaries is acceptable unless they are done to discriminate on the basis of the protected classes outlined in the Civil Rights Act.

so you cannot avoid counting votes because they are from black people, but you can exclude votes on the basis that the primary didn't follow the rules of scheduling.

i didn't make the laws or the rules.

[SwampG8r]

180. i tried explaining that

but all i got was fingers in the ears and "lalalalalalalalalalalala"

[uberllama42]

119. What are you talking about?

How can you equate adherence to the rules with harming small animals? This is a democracy, in which the rules are supposed to count for something. I voted in a valid primary and I consider it a violation of my rights to count votes from invalid primaries in Florida and Michigan. If the state parties want to hold new primaries according to the rules, I am all for it. But seating delegates based on the primaries they held months ago debases my vote.

Also, why are you throwing around communism as a general insult? Do you know what communism is? Stifling dissent is not the salient attribute of communism.

[gristy]

212. What if a state decided to hold their general election vote a week early.

What do you think should be the outcome of that?

[POAS]

49. Broke the rules and Hillary agreed to

punish them. (Apparently she had her fingers crossed behind her back.

[L0oniX]

177. Bush broke rules too ...I guess that is something he and Hillary would have in common...

since she wants to throw the rules out in this case. How can we trust that she won't change or break the rules if she were the president?

[MyNameGoesHere]

62. Here is what i don't get about it.

They people were told "Your vote isn't going to count" so you might as well stay home. But in record numbers they voted. Kind of strange isn't it? What about that don't you get?

[Window]

112. So many came out to vote because of the property tax issue.

[MyNameGoesHere]

150. I am sure they did.

Down ballot initiatives have always had record turnout. :wow:

[SwampG8r]

182. and the vote was skewed towards hillary in that

fewer blacks are property owners and so had less reason to vote when the primary was already a dead dog
the vote was large
the GOP had quite a day
so did hard working white hardworking property owners

if a revote on the nomination were held hillary would lose in a landslide
ive lived here all my life and i know for a fact she would lose

[Window]

202. I do believe you are correct.

Peace:kick:

[MyNameGoesHere]

221. According to this

GOP turnout was dismal. So who is telling the truth?

http://www.fladems.com/content/w/amazing_night_for_democrats_everywhere

[SwampG8r]

238. i am

the vote on the gop side was low and the dem was inflated
now......
where did those extras come from
hmmmmmmmm...jeepers i bet they voted for Hillary like her pal rush told them to
and its interesting to me that when you want, hillary supporters say the turnout was huge and then when someone who was actually THERE says something all of a sudden the turnout was small
make up which of these 2 separate lies you are pushing please so i only argue one of them in each post
if not i sound as delusional and hard to follow as a hillary campaign advisor

[MyNameGoesHere]

244. But this "lie" as you put it did not come from me

it was on the FL dem website. i can't help it if Floridians lie.

[SwampG8r]

247. then dont reward them

for it
bunch of lying floridians
no delegates then
i agree with you

[boobooday]

249. YES. This was the reason in Florida n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

187. There was record turnout all over the country

FACT...

There were six states where GOP Primary turnout was higher than Democratic Primary turnout. Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Utah, Florida, and Michigian.

Alabama and Alaska are very red states. Arizona is McGramps' home state. Utah is a pseudo home state for Mittens.

How do Florida and Michigan fit in this column??? The only explanation is that many voters stayed home or crossed over to vote in the GOP Primary to mess with their results. I know that was certainly the case in Michigan where many dems and dem-leaning independents voted for Mittens to hurt McGramps.

[MyNameGoesHere]

220. If you say so.

http://www.fladems.com/content/w/amazing_night_for_democrats_everywhere

I am not buying it was repukes voting. It was a record turnout for Dems. Spin it any way you can.

[Hippo_Tron]

239. Again, there was record turnout for Democrats all over the country

But you can't explain the fact that Florida and Michigan fall into the same category as 4 very red states other than by concluding that many more people would've voted in the Democratic Primary if they knew it was going to count.

[JoFerret]

96. Are you playing Monopoly or something?

Sounds like you ended up with all the Utilities and no money to buy property.

[Jakes Progress]

139. So did the people who hid Anne Frank.

So did the people who marched for civil rights when it was against Georgia law.
So did the suffragettes who had themselves thrown in jail.

The rules were not right. If everyone were being honest, they would admit that if the roles were reversed, they would be praising Barack for defying the vote-denying rules. As they should. Breaking bad rules is what progressives do.

Hiding behind arcane and harmful rules is what got us where we are now.

Seat Florida. It won't keep Barack from winning the primary, but it will be necessary if he wants to win the GE. Those who think this will be an easy election to win, should work for Rumsfield, who said that Iraq was going to be a cakewalk. Naive, uninformed, and entirely caught up in a tight circle of people who all agree with each other. This will be a tough one.

[durrrty libby]

199. So did NH and SC. Do you intentionally try to look ignorant or it comes naturally?

:dunce:

[Skink]

2. I'm so sorry to hear that

:wtf:

[cliffordu]

4. Bye! President McCaine thanks you!!

:sarcasm:

[VeraAgnes]

45. Don't be coy....

He will indeed thank you.

[Warren DeMontague]

5. Bye Bye.

I'd like to say I'm going to miss your contributions, but I count at least 6 or 7 other people spouting identical lies at any given moment around here, so really there's not much of a loss.

[democracy1st]

6. Oh like you guys didn't push Rev Wright,and Bittergate

[scarletwoman]

7. Splendid! I'm delighted it worked out for you! It works for me, too!

[smiley_glad_hands]

8. Sorry, but the dream is only beginning.

Take your's and hill's repug tactics and frames with you.

[VeraAgnes]

47. Saturday will hold a surprise for you.

All the votes will be counted.

[POAS]

51. But what will you do when they apportion

some to Obama?

Will you cry "No Fair"?

Hillary not only supported the punishment meted out by the DNC she agreed to campaign accordingly and then she broke the rules and now wants the rules broken again because it might benefit her.

Shame!

[Auntie Bush]

102. Liar ,liar Your pants are on fire! Or you misspeak.

Clinton DIDN'T CAMPAIGN in Florida as the rules stated.
Clinton DIDN'T ADVERTISE in Florida as the rules stated
Her name was on the ballet as the rules permitted.
People voted...and all her votes should be counted.

Obama DIDN'T campaign in Florida as the rules stated.
Obama didn't run Ads on Florida stations as the rules stated.
However, Obama DID deliberately run ads in neighboring states that reached Floridians TVs, thus breaking the spirit of the rules.
People voted...and all his votes should be counted.

Dean and the Dem committee (?) should give ALL the votes to ALL the candidates.
They could opt to a large fine for party instead of disenfranchising millions of people. So people get their votes and the party is punished.

CASE SOLVED FAIRLY! On to MI

[POAS]

111. But the rules (and those that made them) have already

disenfranchised voters in both those states.

Maybe more would have come out for Hillary, Edwards or Obama in Michigan if they thought it mattered.
Maybe the "uncommitted" votes in Michigan would have divided up among all three (or more). We will never know!

The eggs are already cracked and Hillary participated in the cracking. Let's not pretend that her "solution" somehow restores the eggs to a whole condition again. Her "solution" is designed for one purpose alone, to further her campaign. If it helped her campaign to support not counting MI and FL she would be all for that "solution".

[Auntie Bush]

122. I wasn't talking about MI. I was talking about your lie regarding FL

Please reply to that and defend or refute your lie or misinformation.

[POAS]

128. How could I have lied about FLorida

in a post where Florida was never mentioned?

You been on the koolaid again?

Go back a read my post again if you must and point directly to the lie I made about Florida. Try to do it without parsing and reading between the lines. Your not very good at it!

[POAS]

161. Still waiting for you to point out the lie

or even where I used the name Florida in my post.

[POAS]

246. That's what I thought, you got nuttin'

Off to my ignore list with you!

[Hippo_Tron]

190. Bullshit, Obama ran a national ad and could not exclude Florida

He tried to do so but was not able to. He asked the remaining early primary state party chairs if it was acceptable and they said that was okay. He asked the DNC for permission as well and they said it was okay.

Obama had to run national ads if he was going to compete in every state on Super Tuesday. I know that just annoys the crap out of Clinton supporters who only think that big states count, but competing in every state is how he netted more delegates. Maybe Clinton should have run some national ads as well.

[Doityourself]

57. No surprise for you though. Obama will still be the nominee.

[POAS]

129. Don't confuse them with reality!

[Doityourself]

131. You're right. Man, they are getting more delusional by the nano-second

[POAS]

136. In a hole and still digging.

I used to try reason and logic but I quit when I realized I was in danger of falling into their hole with them.

Now it's just "Whack-a-mole".

[Duke Newcombe]

9. Good luck in your new location... n/t

Duke

[highplainsdem]

10. lwcon, I'm sorry you're leaving. The points you made were important.

Otoh, I can understand your being disgusted by reaction to your posts here.

[VeraAgnes]

46. I support ones decision to make healthy choices.

I find the rationale accurate as well.

[Medusa]

84. Of course the fact that the "facts" he posted were completely wrong

doesn't matter to the Hillbots does it?

[Cant trust em]

11. If I had ever planned on leaving, this would be the time.

I'm an Obama supporter, but this got out of hand quickly.

[murielm99]

12. I wish you would not leave.

Not all these people are Democrats. Some of them have the goal of ruining this site. The primary is just a convenient excuse.

[sudopod]

13. Time to shave the drama llama. nt

[Cant trust em]

26. Please see below...

:rofl:

Shave the drama llama. Priceless.

[SoCalDem]

242. So... I googled "shaved llama"..and.....tada

so I edited a bit:

[mythyc]

269. OMFG that's hillarious! insta-DUzy

great find!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Hawkeye-X]

14. Oh great. What's with the recent use of a useless website called Correntewire?

And using delusional website like ObamaMessiah?

See ya, wouldn't want to be ya.

[grantcart]

15. be sure and take your fantasy world with you

Even as the Obama camp successfully propagated the meme of Hillary as a stop-at-nothing party destroyer, I've seen a very different picture, with Obama destroying the Clintons with trumped up charges of racism, one of the most shocking things I've seen a Democrat do in my lifetime.

[MonkeyFunk]

20. Not a fantasy

it's what happened. Some day a lot of you guys will lose the blinders and see what really happened in this race.

[grantcart]

32. yup Obama killed the Clintons by getting them to act stupid and say stupid things

1) Why is it that Senator Clinton having tremendous advantages in money, organization, name familiarity, 30 years of connections, and rule changes that helped create the near national primary Super Tuesday that worked to her strengths; was unable to move her numbers from where they were 8 months ago?



2) What effect do you think her inability to explain her IWR vote had on a party that hated the war? Not only did she not apologize for it she was arrogant and dismissive to Democratic voters who

“If the most important thing to any of you is choosing someone who did not cast that vote or has said his vote was a mistake, then there are others to choose from,” Mrs. Clinton told an audience in Dover, N.H., in a veiled reference to two rivals for the nomination, Senator Barack Obama of Illinois and former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina.

How did Obama compel her to become so arrogant over her unpopular war vote?

3) Forget our 'blinders'

Why does Senator Obama:

Have more endorsements from United States Democratic Senators?

Have more endorsements from United States Democratic Governors?

Have more endorsements from United States Democraitic Congresspeople?

Have more endorsements from DNC committee members despite the fact that she started with more than 150 advantage?

All of these long time pros with all of that experience who all know Senator Clinton a lot better than you or I do have passed her over to choose Senator Obama for what reason?

4) Falling behind in her own home state.

The great irony is that the irreducible bitter enders live in much more of a cult (whether a cult of affection for Senator Clinton or a cult of hate for Senator Obama) than the Obama followers ever have. You should click on his website and go through the vile that he/she has. Yep Obama fooled everyone but those rural fundamentalists in Kentucky and West Virginia. They are the only ones that figured out he really is a Muslim. Now here is a finaly shot at your condescending bullshit that you offer with such sanctimonious self pity.

Obama is out polling Senator Clinton in New York (her home state no less), California and New Jersey - all of those big states she was supposed to do so well in.














I mean it must be pretty humiliating to have your opponent do better in the GE polls in your own home state for god sake. Talking about blinders lol.

[1776Forever]

52. Wow - Awesome post! Facts matter! Thanks for the time you spent on this - it is worth it!!

:hi:

[sellitman]

83. He turned "tail" and ran.

Looks like your facts overwhelmed him.

[democracy1st]

42. See what happened ,you have the rightwing openly campaigning for Hillary

[Bluenorthwest]

93. Er, Wear the shoe that fits

At the 2004 Republican National Convention, while loyal Democrats were being dragged off by the police for protesting Bush, a well known GOP operative sang a weepy pean to GW Bush. That operative was Donnie McClurkin. In Oct of 2007, Obama personally requested McClurkin as his only speaking surrogate at a series of events, at some of which McClurkin launched overt and by name attacks up GLBT Americans. Also on that tour was Kirbyjon Caldwell, known as GW Bush's personal spiritual advisor. He called up GW to get premission before speaking for Obama.
These are right wing Republican hate preachers, who appeared in Obama's name at his events. Actual bashing of real live minorities took place.
So when you make a statement like that, I sure don't see an honest assesment.

[Straight Shooter]

151. But an Obama campaign spokesperson said, "We got what we wanted."

In other words, who cares if a bunch of gays were offended? Their voting bloc isn't significant and they'll come around, anyway. They always do. x(

[Doityourself]

58. Ha Ha..Hillary fucked her own campagin..you guys are delusional. She nor Bill are victims!

[L0oniX]

184. Poor millionaire victims at that.

:evilgrin:

[Kierkegaard]

77. Funny you should mention blinders.

:eyes:

[ronnykmarshall]

228. Right on Monk!!!

[MercutioATC]

16. Out of hand, yes...but your claim of "the most votes" is laughable.

Maybe she did, maybe she didn't. We'll never know, because there is no way to count voters in caucus states...

...which makes the claim by either candidate ridiculous.


...and, as you know, that's not how we determine a nominee anyway.

[democracy1st]

43. GOP tactics keep repeating the same ol BS

[hokies4ever]

17. "received the most votes"

:rofl:

[TahitiNut]

18. Buh-bye.

:nopity:

[hokies4ever]

19. You'll be back - everybody knows you can't stand Dems celebrating

so you'll come back to try to rain on our parade once Obama reaches 2025 and then the next magic number that Hillary declares is needed for victory.

[JohnnyLib2]

21. Diversity of opinion.....needed more than ever.

:hug:

[stratomagi]

22. Good Luck at Free Republic!!!

:hi::patriot::hi:

[blitzen]

23. Sore Loserman.

[Straight Shooter]

153. Your insult is taken directly from the right wing playbook.

Congratulations. That's the first time I've read that disgusting insult on DU.

[MoonRiver]

293. Nowhere hear the first time for me, unfortunately.

x(

[Gore1FL]

24. Is it a good time to leave DU for bad and ugly too?

[madeline_con]

25. This the first site dedicated to Obama bashing I've seen. n/t

[Cant trust em]

27. I thought you left a few months ago?

[Crunchy Frog]

28. Good riddance.

:hi:

[JoFerret]

285. Tasty

larks vomit coating? Or are you always naturally this charming?

[livingmadness]

29. Oh god, will the dramatic exits ever end?

I'll be so glad when these primaries come to an end.

[POAS]

48. Reminds me of

a bad "B" movie actor making the most of his only scene in the movie by making his death throws last for several minutes.

I want to say to them, here's your damned football now please go home already so we can play baseball.

[L0oniX]

186. LOL ...B movie theatrics.

[autorank]

30. Corrente missed the "totally obliterate" Iran comment. Good luck.

Defending gratuitous threats to evaporate Iran was a very odd moment. The RFK remark was another
odd moment. Corrente is just in a "foul" (mouthed) mood. So are you. I'm not an Obama partisan,
although HRC's tactics make him appealing. She's out of control. Take a deep breath and come on
back.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/print.html?path=HL0804/S00415.htm

Last week, Hillary Clinton proved that reason is on holiday. When asked how she would react to an Iranian nuclear attack on Israel, Clinton said that she would "obliterate" Iran. She didn't say it in a rage. She didn't say it in a state of nervous exhaustion. She appeared calm and composed. Her voice didn't waiver at all as she spoke these words on "Good Morning America:"

"Well, the question was, if Iran were to launch a nuclear attack on Israel, what would our response be? I want the Iranians to know that if I am president, we will attack Iran. And I want them to understand that. Because it does mean that they have to look very carefully at their society. Because whatever stage of development they might be in their nuclear weapons program, in the next 10 years during which they might foolishly consider launching an attack on Israel, we would be able to totally obliterate them. Los Angeles Times Apr. 24, 2008 YouTube (at 2:29)

For decades it's been an unspoken rule that the president and others in key leadership positions avoid open threats of nuclear attack. The United States and the Soviet Union both had enough nuclear weapons to destroy the world hundreds of times over. This lead to a Cold War - a series of proxy wars and other encounters made necessary by the "mutually assured destruction" that would follow a serious exchange of nuclear weapons.

Yet Clinton told the Mullahs in charge of Iran to take a good look at their society since she'd evaporate it if they launched a nuclear attack on Israel.

[TahitiNut]

38. She's been a trainwreck since the IWR vote.,

It's a litany of selling out and lies. She's been a major disappointment, imho.

[autorank]

41. Agreed!!! Anyone who voted for that disaster is is one themselves.

Why? Because THEY KNEW

I remember her speech - 'oh, this is such a hard decision' - yeah, if you know the facts and vote
for it anyway, WHICH EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE "YEAS" REPRESENTS - a U.S. Senator voting for a war
when public information, forget their insider stuff, said that the justification was, at best, a fake.

:hi:

[Bluenorthwest]

114. Is that why you did not vote

For John Kerry? Kerry voted for that disaster. I assume you skipped that vote out of principle? Or did you vote for such a fully compromised candidate? Did you speak out against his vote at all? Why did the Party nominate such a disasterous and foolish man as Kerry? Kerry now backs Obama. Does Obama say Kerry is "a U.S. Senator voting for a war when public information, forget their insider stuff, said that the justification was, at best, a fake" ?

I assume those IWR single issue voters did not vote for John Kerry. And helped give us the second Bush term, out of 'principle'....did you vote for Nader? Bush? Or for that vile voter for a fake war, Kerry?

[autorank]

214. Gee questions for me. Like an interview...

Q: I assume you skipped that vote out of principle?

Ans. Nope. I voted on principle - Kerry was the only viable alternative to Bush. It would have
been irresponsible to vote for anyone other than Kerry, in my opinion. I also worked for Kerry and
gave to him to help get Bush out and mitigate the disaster.

Q: Or did you vote for such a fully compromised candidate?

Ans: I just answered that!

Q: Did you speak out against his vote at all?

Ans: Yes I did. I spoke out against all of those who voted to support the war from the time of the
vote through the present.

Q: Why did the Party nominate such a disastrous and foolish man as Kerry?

Ans: "disastrous and foolish" - those are your words. Clinton is both of those because she
represents a continuation of Bush-Clinton, unrestrained violence and killing - 250,000 Iraqi children
in the Embargo, 1,200,000 dead Iraqi civilians. For what? Kerry didn't participate in that, he
just voted for it. Ironically, those votes didn't count because Congress has, for decades, ignored
the Constitution - Congress makes war, not presidents.

As for the party that nominated Kerry, it's the same party that nominates all the major party
candidates, it's The Money Party

Q: Kerry now backs Obama. Does Obama say Kerry is "a U.S. Senator voting for a war when public
information, forget their insider stuff, said that the justification was, at best, a fake".

Ans: I have no idea what you're talking about.

Q: I assume those IWR single issue voters did not vote for John Kerry. And helped give us the
second Bush term, out of 'principle'

Ans: You can assume anything you want. You're probably wrong most of the time. Your anger
guides your thinking. Not a good plan.

Q: ....did you vote for Nader? Bush? Or for that vile voter for a fake war, Kerry?

Ans: I reserve "vile" for presidents and "co presidents" who kill lots of people.
As I said, I voted for Kerry, etc.

[Carolina]

149. TOUCHE

The IWR sellout vote did it for me, too.

Then when GWB actually "betrayed trust" and went to war in 3/2003, where was her voice of protest?

She was mute UNTIL time to run for POTUS... what a POS

[autorank]

207. War time...

That's a good question, where were the voices of protest. I think that's when they introduced the "story line" - they were so scared. Gee - a month or two before the invasion, a majority of Democrats and Republicans opposed the invasion absent thorough weapons inspection AND UN support. They all knew it was a bogus claim - WMD - but somehow, given public support just weeks before, they all hid their heads.

The Art of Political Lying, simple but effective. Look at the results.

:hi

[Skittles]

31. it's disgusting but I won't leave

I won't let the likes of these juvenile pieces of SHIT drive me from DU any more than I would let the likes of repukes drive me out of AMERICA

[Forkboy]

135. You couldn't leave if you wanted to.

We're in it 'til the end of time. :P

[Why Syzygy]

34. Well that's fine, but. None of your links are to DU so :shrug:

[JVS]

36. Yay!

:party:

[ronnykmarshall]

229. Sheesh!

You know what? You've been cool with me. And I've tried to see eye to eye with you. But I'll say this. I don't give a fuck anymore. The OP speaks many of the feelings that I feel as well.

[Raine]

37. Another VANITY good bye post

:boring: don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. :hurts:

[d_b]

39. you clowns are so fuckin lame

but at least you're funny.

[LowerManhattanite]

40. I just thank God no linkwhoring's going on! n/t

[Perry Logan]

50. I recommend some of the numerous pro-Hillary sites out there. Much nicer than GD-P.

I've been looking round the the pro-Hillary sites on the web. The writing is much better than at DU. They're clearly much more intelligent than the Obama types here. They also know exactly why Obama is going to get creamed in the GE.

[Doityourself]

60. Wow..no need for you to hang around here..then..lol..you guys are so predictable

[Oilwellian]

126. And yet...

here you are.

[muryan]

216. You'll be comfortable here

barackobamaantichrist.blogspot.com

freerepublic.com

[Sancho]

53. A general response to "broke the rules": FAQ's from the FL Democratic Party...

This is cut from a 2007 website that is still there: http://www.fladems.com/page/content/makeitcount-faqs/#q1
I'm sure that this doesn't satisfy everyone, but there is a lot of spin that is not accurate.

--------------From the Florida Democratic Website before the primary-----------------

"Some are calling the Florida Primary a “beauty contest” and saying the results “essentially won’t count.” Should Democrats vote that day?
YES. All Democrats should vote on January 29. Even if the vote is not recognized by the DNC, the choice of Florida voters’ for the Democratic presidential nominee will make waves in the media across the country, just a week before the all-important February 5th – a date some are calling “Tsunami Tuesday” because so many states are holding their primaries that day. Additionally, there are important municipal elections as well as a constitutional property tax amendment on the ballot that day as well. Turnout is crucial.

Who sets the date for Florida’s Primary?
The state-run Presidential Preference Primary date is set by the Florida Legislature. In the 2007 legislative session, the Republican Speaker of the House made it a priority to move up the Primary to January, in violation of both Democratic and Republican National Committee Rules. The Legislature passed the bill, which also included the new requirement that all Florida elections have a paper trail starting in 2008. Governor Charlie Crist signed the bill into law in May.

So what's all the fuss about?
Florida, like every other state, is required to submit a “Delegate Selection Plan for the 2008 Democratic National Convention” to the Democratic National Committee (DNC) explaining how and when the state will pick and apportion its delegates for the presidential nominating process. Florida has 210 delegates. We submitted our Plan earlier this year, and the DNC found it to be in non-compliance with DNC Rules because our state-run Primary date does not comply with the schedule ordered by the DNC’s rules. Therefore, they have issued a 100% reduction of our delegates to the national convention.

Why didn’t the Florida Democratic Party follow the Rules?
Florida’s Primary date, as determined by state law, violates one part of the Rules because it comes before February 5, 2008. The DNC only allows Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina to go before February 5, but Florida law set ours for January 29. The DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee (RBC) is the only body that can grant final approval of the Delegate Selection Plan, but the Credentials Committee of the Democratic National Convention, which will be formed next year, decides who actually attends the Convention.

The DNC says that Florida could have applied to hold an early primary when it was developing the calendar, but didn’t. Why not?
In Florida, the Legislature is controlled by Republicans. Democrats must prioritize what they work on to achieve the best they can for Floridians. An early primary was never a priority for Democrats, who remain far more concerned with issues such as insurance reform, increased healthcare for children, and improving our schools.

The Rules say you had to try to stop the primary move, but Democrats voted for the law. What gives?
Initially, before a specific date had been decided upon by the Republicans, some Democrats did actively support the idea of moving earlier in the calendar year. That changed when Speaker Rubio announced he wanted to break the Rules of the Democratic and Republican National Committees. Following this announcement, DNC and Florida Democratic Party staff talked about the possibility that our primary date would move up in violation of Rule 11.A.

Party leaders, Chairwoman Thurman and members of Congress then lobbied Democratic members of the Legislature through a variety of means to prevent the primary from moving earlier than February 5th. Party leadership and staff spent countless hours discussing our opposition to and the ramifications of a pre-February 5th primary with legislators, former and current Congressional members, DNC members, DNC staff, donors, activists, county leaders, media, legislative staff, Congressional staff, municipal elected officials, constituency leaders, labor leaders and counterparts in other state parties. In response to the Party’s efforts, Senate Democratic Leaders Geller and Wilson and House Democratic Leaders Gelber and Cusack introduced amendments to CS/HB 537 to hold the Presidential Preference Primary on the first Tuesday in February, instead of January 29th. These were both defeated by the overwhelming Republican majority in each house.

The primary bill, which at this point had been rolled into a larger legislation train, went to a vote in both houses. It passed almost unanimously. The final bill contained a whole host of elections legislation, much of which Democrats did not support. However, in legislative bodies, the majority party can shove bad omnibus legislation down the minority’s throats by attaching a couple of things that made the whole bill very difficult, if not impossible, to vote against. This is what the Republicans did in Florida, including a vital provision to require a paper trail for Florida elections. There was no way that any Florida Democratic Party official or Democratic legislative leader could ask our Democratic members, especially those in the Florida Legislative Black Caucus, to vote against a paper trail for our elections. It would have been embarrassing, futile, and, moreover, against Democratic principles.

Who cares about the paper trail?
Floridians do. Our state has had far too many election controversies. A verifiable paper trail for elections is something Democrats have fought for since the election debacle of 2000. It is a groundbreaking change in a state that has no standardized voting and a long record of disastrous elections. In fact, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) continues to investigate Florida’s District 13 Congressional election in which touch-screen voting machines lost 18,000 ballots in the most Democratic part of the district - putting a Republican in Congress by less than 400 votes, instead of an accomplished Democratic woman who worked her way from bank teller to bank president before running for Congress.

Why can’t you just change the primary date?
Unfortunately, Florida Democrats are outnumbered almost 2 to 1 in the Legislature. They are an extremely hard-working and committed group, but to change a law that the Speaker of the House has made a priority is nearly impossible.

Some Florida Democrats are using the word ‘disenfranchisement.’ What do they mean by that? How exactly would a caucus disenfranchise voters? Isn’t that too strong a word?
Florida Democrats are extremely concerned about the potential for disenfranchisement, which is the term used to refer to the act of inhibiting the right to vote. For minorities and women in particular, it has historical significance because those groups were often told they could not vote, either directly or by tying certain criteria to the right to vote, such as a poll tax or a literacy test. Modern-day disenfranchisement includes action such as a tactic called “caging,” which is the illegal use of mailing lists to cut voters from the rolls so when they show up on Election Day, they cannot vote. The Republican Party of Florida and the 2004 Bush-Cheney Campaign are currently being investigated based on evidence that emerged recently showing that they conducted caging in Duval County in 2004 to block Democrats from voting.

Not all caucuses disenfranchise voters. There are ways to hold an inclusive, open caucus. However, this costs money – a LOT of money. We estimated it would cost $7-8 million to hold an inclusive process here (the Primary costs the state $18 million). One suggested caucus would have allowed only 120,000 people to vote at 150 sites, even though a normal Florida primary has upwards of a million Democrats and 6,700 polling sites. Because of the size of this state, there is no way to equitably distribute 150 sites. Many Democratic voters live in urban areas and do not have personal transportation. Or some live in rural counties and would have to drive for hours to get to a site. Those are just some of the problems that would effectively disenfranchise voters.
What about the property tax reform constitutional amendment the Republicans are pushing?
In addition to the presidential primary vote, the Republican-controlled Legislature scheduled a ballot question on a constitutional amendment that will force drastic cuts in 2008-09 to local budgets that are already being cut in the upcoming budget. The amendment stands to slash local services like libraries and community centers and cut literally thousands of jobs at the municipal level – including firefighters, police, teachers, and others. While the Party does not generally take official positions on ballot initiatives, it encourages all voters to take a careful and serious look at the impact the cuts will have on their localities before they vote on this initiative.

And the municipal elections?
On January 29, the ballot will also include numerous municipal elections. While Florida Democrats did better in 2006, picking up two Congressional seats – would have been a third were it not for 18,000 missing votes in District 13 – electing the first Democratic Cabinet member since 1998, taking back eight Republican-held House seats, and winning the Hispanic vote for the first time since 1976, we still have a long way to go to take back the majority here. We have worked hard to build our bench, but Republicans will turnout in big numbers on January 29th, even though they have a weak slate of Presidential candidates. Florida Democrats must turn out in full force to vote on January 29th so we can continue to elect strong and responsible elected officials at the municipal level.

What about the Four-State Pledge? Does this mean the presidential candidates are not coming to the state convention?
Many people are asking about the so-called “Four State Pledge” – the effort by the early states of Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina to maintain their privileged positions of influence in the nominating process. Also, the four early states informed the Florida Democratic Party that they would not allow the Presidential candidates to campaign in Florida even if we held an alternative process. We obviously don’t support this, but it is the hand we have been dealt. (Read three different versions of the infamous “Four State Pledge”) In reality, because of the hyper-importance of Iowa and New Hampshire in the 2008 Democratic race, our candidates likely would not have been able to spend much time anywhere else other than for fundraising. Rest assured, we’ll see the Democratic nominee – the next President of the United States of America – early and often during the general election.

What about the delegate selection process? Why still go through with the process if the DNC isn’t giving Florida any delegates?
Although the DNC has said it will not recognize delegates from Florida, the Party plans to appeal to the eventual Democratic nominee for President to be seated at the Convention. Speaker Nancy Pelosi, the Chair of the 2008 National Convention, and DNC Chairman Howard Dean both confirmed that this does not minimize the importance and impact of the vote on January 29th. With this in mind, the Party will continue the delegate selection process to elect the actual delegates to the Democratic National Convention and will use the results of the January 29th Presidential Preference Primary to determine the apportionment of those delegates.

Why didn’t the DNC assign hotel rooms to Florida?
We technically have no delegates at this time. However, when the nominee overrules the DNC and restores our delegation, we will have some of the 17,000 hotel rooms assigned to us.

Can a presidential candidate remove their name from the ballot in Florida?
Florida Democratic Party Chairwoman Thurman, Senator Geller and Representative Gelber submitted to Florida’s Secretary of State the names of our Party’s presidential candidates for placement on the January 29, 2008 Democratic Presidential Preference Primary ballot. State law allows candidates who wish to withdraw from the Florida primary to do so by filing an affidavit stating that he or she is not a candidate for President of the United States of America. In other words: to get off the ballot in Florida, a candidate has to swear that he or she isn’t running for President.

What is going on with the lawsuits?
The one lawsuit filed against the Florida Democratic Party has been thrown out. The Party is not involved in any other lawsuit.

Paid for by the Florida Democratic Party (214 South Bronough Street, Tallahassee, FL 32301, 850-222-3411) and not authorized by any federal candidate or candidate's committee.

© 2007 Florida Democratic Party • Privacy Policy | Contact Us"

[aquarius dawning]

55. I agree.

[Doityourself]

56. Buh Bye! More pissed off Hilly fans...blame her..she fucked her own campaign!

[vssmith]

59. I live in Michigan and

I don't want our delegates seated now. No one, including HRC, gave a damn when it was first announced that we would lose our place at the table. Now Hillary is fighting for the rights of the people of our two states. Why all of a sudden does she care? Hmmm! I wonder.

[aquarius dawning]

61. and why all of a sudden are you all happy about being disenfranchised? Hmmmm! I wonder.

[vssmith]

63. I am tired of being a pawn in the larger game

[aquarius dawning]

78. I'll be honest with you. I have zero respect for anybody whose cool with being disenfranchised

for any reason. When I see that our primary election has come to this, a sick feeling fills my gut and I can't hep feel that we really deserve to lose in November. We've truly earned it. This whole primary has gone from bad to just plain disgusting. If you think I'm gonna have a problem staying home in November, you're kidding yourself.

[vssmith]

98. Here is the deal

We only had one name on the ballot and we thought at the time of the primary it would not count.
Because of that I crossed over--maybe I should not have done that but...
Many of my liberal friends did not even vote thinking, as I did, that it would not count.

My feeling is that you cannot change the rules in the middle of the game.

BTW, I do not need your respect.

[Bluenorthwest]

101. So you voted Republican...

Your most recent votes were for Republicans. That says it all.

[Lerkfish]

158. and I have zero respect for people that enable someone trying to change rules

in the middle of the contest because they're sore losers.


absolutely ZERO respect.

[Carolina]

154. exactly, Hillbots are using MI voters in

a game. You're not disenfranchised. You CAN vote in November. Ignore the deluded Hillbots as they follow their feckless, narcissistic, lying sociopathic leader into the sewage of her own making.

[uberllama42]

120. You deserve a valid primary

I got to vote in a fair primary, and every Democrat in Florida and Michigan deserves the same. If the national Party has any credibility, though, it will not seat delegates based on primaries that broke rules to which everyone agreed. If the rules don't count for anything, the whole process is a farce.

[MindMatter]

65. Not that I don't trust your promise to leave, but I'm ignoring you just to be safe

from any more bullshit like that.

[L0oniX]

188. LMFAO

:evilgrin:

[Bright Eyes]

69. Just go.

No need to make a public statement about how unfair it all is.

[polichick]

70. Yet another EXIT WHINE (Why do they think this is necessary??)

[golddigger]

175. Probably why you thought it was necessary to reply to his post.

:silly:

[polichick]

181. LOL - so far I've posted on 2 of these, both times to ask why announce leaving...

Seems pretty silly - why not just leave without all the dramatics?

[dcindian]

71. You point out a important distinction between Hillary supporters and Obama supporters.

Hillary supporters do not support their positions with facts born of reality therefore cannot take a constant barrage of what you think are falsehoods.

During the Pastorgate, Bittergate, Fingergate, FlagPingate, Muslimgate, Dealergate, Rezkogate, ProudAmericangate, or any number of shit hole made up issues one thing happened. Obama supporters backed by critical thinking, honesty, and reality stood up and met such hate head on.

Hillary supporters like their queen lack a basis in reality, or a set of mores which include honesty and truth so they cry, pout, blame, and point fingers just like the child queen herself.

[quaker bill]

81. I spent a long time

back in the 1980's hanging with radicals who said "the people are just not smart enough to get our vision". It was a great exercise in self-validation and self-gratification, but it amounted to absolutely nothing.

I recommend the pro-Hillary sites, it will be great for this sort of thing, given you need it. They will run for a while, eventually devolve into endless bickering, then fade away. Enjoy.

[Kierkegaard]

86. Ain't it the truth.

Well said.

[L0oniX]

191. SNAP

:thumbsup:

[cjsmom44]

72. RE: Oh you are leaving?

See ya and don't let the door hit you on the way out....

[BREMPRO]

73. sad to see another bitter Clintonian leaves DU

what she actually said:

EB: You don’t buy the party unity argument?

HRC: I don’t, because again, I’ve been around long enough. You know my husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere around the middle of June

EB: June

HRC: We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. Um you know I just I don’t understand it. There’s lots of speculation about why it is.

She's clearly talking about the calender, BUT WHY mention assassination? it seem a subconscious thought she mistakenly stated from a point of desperation and looking for excuses, or a deliberate strategy of raising the issue for SD's to ponder. I would assume the former.

analysis from correntwire:

“Hey, I know it looks bad for me now. But, think about it. Obama could get shot and I’d get to be the nominee after all.”

“Everyone talks like May is incredibly late, but by historical standards it is not. Think of all the famous milestones in presidential races that have taken place during June.”

She said and meant both things with her comment IMHO. But her historical analysis is flawed. BC secured the nomination in April by most analysis, and RFK had only been in the race for a month when he was shot. No reasonable person could make this comparison. So we are left with the =i'm saying in just in case= argument. The Clinton campaign has blamed the Obama campaign and the MEdia for hyping this. Anyone who has been 0n the blogeshere knows this is a grass roots outrage, not a top down spin. Hillary is wrecking the party and ruining her political career at this point, and if she was smart she would bow out graciously after June 3rd and enthusiastically support our next president.

sorry you lost, but we need to move on and beat the McShame machine.

[ileus]

74. hang in here with us fellow Hillary supporters..don't let the dream die.

[barack the house]

76. The reality is it is a delegate race and all the popular talk don't change that...

Hillary has clarified that she has more votes than anyone before this race. Obama happens to have even more IN this race.

[tabasco]

79. I wish!

What is your sockpuppet name? Mr. Moran is a suggestion.

[POAS]

80. addition by subtraction!

[meow mix]

82. thanks. gtfo.

yay

[Vinca]

85. If you truly believe in your candidate, you should stay and fight for her.

Sorry, but the "leaving" announcements sound whiny and weak.

[Forkboy]

87. Let me guess. Your flamebait post got locked last night?

Are there any Hillary supporters left who aren't a victim of something?

[K Gardner]

88. HillaryClintonForum.Net Anxiously Awaits Your Arrival ! Sayonara.

[SoFlaJet]

100. and don't forget to bring your Keith Olbermann book

and Bruce Springsteen CDs and Tom Hanks movies for the big burn-off over there

[K Gardner]

132. LOL !

[SoFlaJet]

138. after over a dozen years of being on message boards

nothing tops a good "I'M LEAVING" thread KG...and you ALWAYS see the prima donna back ALWAYS-hell, Maddie's request for a self-banning lasted what...3 hours

[neverforget]

173. hilarious!

:rofl:

[L0oniX]

192. LMFAO

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[susankh4]

90. Excellent post!

Brava.

K&R.

I'll be sure to pass it along.....

Be well.

[Terri S]

91. No, the delusion is over, the dream is about to be realized. n/t

[papapi]

92. Bye, bye! Nice not knowin' ya!

[Turn CO Blue]

94. You're discounting the voters in 4 states!

MAINE, WASHINGTON, IOWA AND NEVADA!

Why do you continue in disenfranchising the voices of voters in FOUR states, and then count two states that do not count?

I think that is extremely disingenuous of you and of Senator Clinton.

[gulfcoastliberal]

97. As the immortal terminator so very eloquently put it: "GET OUT!"

Hasta la vista, baby.

[POAS]

107. But he also said, "I'll be back!"......n/t

[cosmicsheep]

109. But he also said "come with me if you want to live"

and "hasta la vista baby"

hmmmm....what could it all mean. Perhaps we should start a "tao of the terminator" thread?

: )

[POAS]

116. Maybe mix it up with a few

"Back to the Future" references and do a whole sci-fi time travel zen thing!

[L0oniX]

193. "Talk to the hand"

[Kierkegaard]

99. I'll take drama for 100, Alex.

"Thousands of tiny violins..."

"What is heard upon the timely departure of lwcon?"

"That's correct!"

[POAS]

133. Double Jeapordy!

How much are you willing to wager Kierkegaard?

[cosmicsheep]

104. Good luck in your new home

I personally would not gravitate to a place that tells me I am "fucked in the head" (http://www.correntewire.com/are_you_fucked_in_the_head) if I do not agree with them 100%, but hey that's just me.

Personally I would like to look forward to the prospect of change, but I guess that just makes me naive.

[POAS]

106. Possibly worse than naive...

maybe even hopeful!

[BlueJac]

105. The rules suck...............

when you have to follow them. Don't forget the pictures on the wall.

Good night and good luck.

[mdmc]

113. take care bro

peace and low stress

[jsmirman]

115. I'm sorry you can't deal with a fairly conducted nominating process

it's amazing that you can consider yourself fair-minded and then act as though abandoning the rules as you see fit is somehow acceptable. It's not. It's the talk of vile egotism. And she has not received the most votes, anyway. That's a disgusting lie that insults our intelligence.

If you have always been comfortable with abandoning rules as you see fit, then I wish you had left sooner. What utter garbage.

[Yotun]

117. As long as you keep repeating popular vote nonsense, you prove WHY your candidate is so hated

[nichomachus]

118. Good news -- your are the second runner-up in

the "How many buzz-word cliches can I use in one post" Award.

Pick up your plaque before you leave.

[populistdriven]

121. My first candidate of choice was not Obama - do you see me whining about it?

I never imagined I would witness such immature self destructive blind allegiance to a single Primary candidate in the Democratic party.

I never imagined her supporters could be so tone deaf as to not hear the strong negative sentiments of the huge percentage of Democrats and Independents over 12 months ago about how HRC was completely unacceptable to them. Everywhere I went I heard them.

The charade of her as the tougher candidate is F I C T I O N.

It takes FAR more toughness to be Obama than Hillary.

If you are looking for a tough female political candidate I am sure there are plenty you can support in local politics. Who knows? Maybe one of them will be president some day with your help.

Stop being so blind and self serving to your identity as a Hillary supporter.

My advice: go cool off for 2 months away from political forums and then return to work to help Democrats win in November!

[Liberal Veteran]

123. Buh-bye!

:hi:

[Celeborn Skywalker]

125. Bye!

:hi:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

127. The Kitchen Sink supporter is bent out of shape!

:wow:

[helderheid]

130. Hugz befo u go?

[YBR31]

134. the fallacy of the popular vote

Clinton is not ahead in the popular vote! By her rules, you need to count all the votes. That would include the caucus states.
http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2008/06/02/080602taco_talk_hertzberg
he precise origins of Memorial Day are a little fuzzy. According to one version, it was first celebrated in 1865, a few weeks after Lee surrendered to Grant; freed slaves and black and white Union soldiers marched to the site of a Confederate prisoner-of-war camp in Charleston, South Carolina, for some hearty hymn-singing and picnicking. Others place its beginnings in Waterloo, New York, a year later, while still others date it to 1868 and a proclamation by the commander of the Grand Army of the Republic, the Northern veterans’ organization. What no one disputes is that the holiday’s founding purpose was to honor the Civil War’s fallen.
This year, thanks to HBO, the remembrances of the Memorial Day weekend encompassed another American civil war, happily less lethal to its combatants but far from trivial in its consequences: the election of 2000. HBO’s movie “Recount” has fewer shrinks than “The Sopranos” and fewer laughs than “Curb Your Enthusiasm,” but its over-all factual accuracy has been attested to by close observers of the events it portrays. It reminds us of some essential truths about the election and its aborted recount: that more Floridians went to their polling places to vote for Al Gore than for George W. Bush; that a full and fair count would have confirmed the voters’ preference; that the White House was awarded to Bush, the half-million-vote loser across the nation, by a 5-4 Supreme Court diktat. The injustice of Bush v. Gore was obvious at the time; its sequel has proved it to be a tragedy.
The stock defense of Justice Antonin Scalia is a three-word sneer: “Get over it.” Many people find themselves unable to take this bracing advice. The wound to the country’s civic health remains fresh, though of course it is active, committed Democrats who feel it most keenly.
In the current Presidential primary campaign, as in the Electoral College, the “popular vote” has no official significance. According to the Party’s rules, the nomination will go to whoever can garner a majority of the delegates at the Convention in Denver, regardless of how many voters or caucus-goers sent them there, or didn’t. (The so-called superdelegates, who make up a fifth of the Convention, represent voters only in the highly attenuated sense of having earlier won public or party office.) Yet the popular vote, however juridically meaningless, carries immense moral and political weight with Democrats, for whom the 2000 travesty is a station of the cross and vote-counting a kind of sacrament. The superdelegates understand this. That’s why it has been clear all along that if one of the candidates is able to claim an indisputable majority of actual flesh-and-blood Democrats it will be difficult to deny him—or her—the nomination. But what if the majority is highly disputable, and everybody has one?
“We’re winning the popular vote,” Hillary Clinton said last week, after prevailing in the Kentucky primary by a margin bigger than that by which she lost in Oregon. “More people have voted for me than for anyone who has ever run for the Democratic nomination.” These statements must be read with the sort of close grammatical and definitional care that used to inform her husband’s descriptions of his personal entanglements. They are not quite true in the normal sense, but if made under oath they would not be prosecutable for perjury, either.
In a nominating process, especially this one, the “popular vote” is an elusive phenomenon. RealClearPolitics.com, an independent Web site whose numbers political reporters and operatives tend to trust, maintains six separate tallies. At the moment, Obama leads in four of them. With or without participants in the caucus states of Iowa, Nevada, Maine, and Washington (i.e., states where voters’ preferences were expressed by gathering in corners and the like, and whose numbers can be estimated but are not pinpointed), and with the totals for both Florida (whose primary was unsanctioned by the Democratic Party, with the consent of all the candidates, and where no one campaigned) and Michigan (also unsanctioned, and where Obama’s name was not even on the ballot), Clinton’s claim that more people have “voted” for her is factual. But her claim to be “ahead” depends entirely on a tally for the Michigan primary that is distinctly North Korean: Clinton, 328,309; Obama, 0. However, if the bulk of the 238,168 Michiganders who voted “uncommitted” are assumed to have been Obama supporters—a reasonable assumption—then Obama leads by every possible reckoning. And if only Florida is included, then Obama leads whether or not those four caucuses are counted.
Next week, after the three remaining primaries—Clinton is expected to sweep the largest of them, Puerto Rico’s—the likelihood is that each candidate will be able to point to “metrics” showing that he or she is the people’s choice. Obama will almost certainly have the better case, especially in view of opinion polls showing that his national lead among Democrats has been growing, but the reality is that the two have been almost equally strong. Obama will remain the leader in the delegate count, owing largely to a more astute strategy, and he will be the nominee. If there is a loftier lesson, it is that the nominating “system”—and not just in the Democratic Party—is an irrational mess. But that’s not how Hillary Clinton sees it.
Last Wednesday, Clinton described the Democrats’ long-standing reluctance to seat the Florida and Michigan delegations in their entirety, a reluctance that she shared back when she saw her nomination as inevitable, in these words: “We’re seeing that right now in Zimbabwe.” In a speech in Florida, she invoked the Declaration of Independence, “the consent of the governed,” the abolition of slavery, “our most fundamental values,” the 1848 Seneca Falls women’s-suffrage convention, the sacrifice of soldiers, the tear gas at Selma, “equal justice under the law,” and the Voting Rights Act. Worse, she invaded the Democratic sacristy, picked up the chalice, and flourished it like a club, saying that

right here in Florida, you learned the hard way what happens when your votes aren’t counted and the candidate with fewer votes is declared the winner. The lesson of 2000 here in Florida is crystal clear. If any votes aren’t counted, the will of the people is not realized and our democracy is diminished.

Well, that depends on what the meaning of “count” is, doesn’t it? Florida’s (and Michigan’s) votes in January’s rogue primaries were indeed counted, and everyone understood well in advance that the question of how they would be translated into delegates was, at best, problematic.
In an eerie echo of the “Brooks Brothers riot” depicted in the HBO movie, when shouting Bush operatives and Republican congressional staffers who had been dispatched to Florida managed to shut down the Miami-Dade County recount, CNN reported on Thursday that Clinton supporters “are planning to swarm the capital in a little over a week to pressure Democratic Party leaders as they gather to decide the fate of the Florida and Michigan delegations.” In 2000, the candidate most willing to deploy principles and trash them, according to the tactical needs of the moment, was awarded the prize. In 2008, maybe not. ♦

[Duder]

137. Na Na Na, Hey Hey...

Crazy Frog version -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlzPFm44Wac

[bvar22]

141. Don't leave yet,

Hillary will need some help hammering in the last nail!

[Howler]

201. Bvar!!!!!

LMAO!!!! But......but.... Whats Bill there for!!!!

[Carolina]

142. Buh Bye

And take your deluded candidates talking points with ya.

[NashVegas]

143. Thanks

for being around, though.

[Carolina]

144. oh and the 'con' part

of your name fits! Buh Bye.

[Barack_America]

145. Is anyone keeping track?

It be nice to eventually know the "return rate".

[rniel]

146. most votes

You lost me there. Anyone who would say that is a lunatic or really dumb at math.

[OzarkDem]

152. They don't care about winning the GE

which is the most disturbing aspect. Guess they prefer Republican rule..:shrug:

[Carolina]

156. Got projection

with your milky math?

[NC_Nurse]

Thank you for that last round of talking points.

:boring:

Oh, and bye. :hi:

[SoxFan]

155. Ho-hum

[CreekDog]

157. the "groupthink" has*mostly* been coming from your camp

:eyes:

[JackORoses]

159. Good Riddance to Hillarite Rubbish

[DemGa]

160. Great parting post - and thanks for ruining the Democratic Party Obamas

-with the degrading attacks and utter silliness from the "uniter" Obama. What a stupid, stupid thing to do.

My thanks to Hillary Clinton for standing against this absurd "movement."

[CaptJasHook]

259. You are just as absurd, as have many of the Hillary supporters have been.

Kettle meet pot. Pot meet kettle.

[lwcon]

162. My parting words to Skinner

Thank You for DU

I used to get a lot out of DU, and I've donated to it several times.

But I've just written my "goodbye cruel world" post.

For reasons I probably can't lay at anyone's feet in particular, this has turned into a place of unthinking Hillary hate and Obama adulation. I think any objective citation analysis and look at the "facts" being argued would have to come to that conclusion.

I have to give y'all credit not only for the good and productive times of yore but also for whoever has had the courage to frontpage a few of my more-controversial posts.

If I've become increasingly shrill, it has been out of my respect for the Democratic Party, the progressive movement, and the pursuit of truth.

For example, I pretty much singlehandedly debated dozens of DU users who became enraptured in World Can't Wait's plan for a massive anti-war protest (as it turned out, it didn't draw very many people, but that's beside the point). I criticized the organization for specifically advocating the destruction of the Democratic Party. How that detail didn't matter to Democratic activists is simply beyond me.

In the current wave of puppy love, Obama has been put on a pedestal -- not a very healthy perspective for him to make good decisions -- and he, his campaign, and his supporters have continually thrown constituencies like Boomers, feminists, atheists, Reagan-haters, blue-collar "Bubbas," universal-healthcare diehards, and even "Chablis-drinkers" under the bus. And, of course, Hillary has been slimed in truly countless ways, generally with no basis whatsoever.

But now, I guess this is no country for old men and women who think the "bipartisanship" frame is a disastrous mistake in what truly should be a change year.

Best regards,
LWCON/Vastleft

http://www.correntewire.com

[cosmicsheep]

163. What the...?

"But now, I guess this is no country for old men and women who think the "bipartisanship" frame is a disastrous mistake in what truly should be a change year."

---
---

You truly don't see the contradiction in the above statement? Really?

What "change" exactly are you looking for then? Maybe you want not just partisanship, or hyper-partisanship like we have now, but super-duper hyper partisanship?

That'll show-em!!!

I don't get it, but that often happens.

[cornermouse]

196. The definition of bi-partisan is probably most accurately

described over the last 8 years, for the most part, as adopting the republican position on issues and passing republican oriented laws. I don't see that as a good thing. Do you?

[cosmicsheep]

200. But that is NOT what bi-partisanship actually means, is it?

Anything that has happened in the last 8 years used to define meanings of words would require us to come up with a whole new vocabulary. I'll stick with the what words mean pre-GWB.

Bi-partisanship is actually a good thing, and the way that things are accomplished in politics.

Using your argument then we better get started on a new dictionary now, and it will take a LONG time to complete.

[cornermouse]

203. That is the way things have worked over the past 8 years

any time the word bi-partisan was used. It is literally been a one way road. That is fact. Irregardless of upcoming election results, the idea that the republicans are going to surrender the power that they have used against us over the past 8 years and start working to pass democratic measures and democratic ideals is unrealistic. As far as I'm concerned, bi-partisan is a 4 letter word.

[cosmicsheep]

205. perhaps we should just overthrow the whole system then?

What would you advocate, if not the original intent of the word bipartisan.

Perhaps you want "turnabout is fair play", and for 4 years we should just shove our agenda down their throats, then there can be a backlash against that, and on and on?

[cornermouse]

218. How young are you?

[cosmicsheep]

223. How young am I?

Young at heart, but I was around when JFK was shot, if that has any relevance whatsoever to what was being discussed.

How "old" are you?

[cornermouse]

225. I asked because you sound so ...umm... young and

...um... innocent, unsuspecting.

[cosmicsheep]

233. because I am trying to define a word correctly?

That makes me young and innocent?

OK then!

[Forkboy]

169. You know DU has more forums than just GD-P, right?

Perhaps you could visit them because the old DU that you long for still exists, and plenty of people who may not be so nice in here are plenty nice elsewhere. Why throw out the baby with the bathwater?

Just a thought. Be better than martyring yourself. :shrug:

[JVS]

172. you said you were leaving. keep your promise

[IndianaGreen]

174. Hillary's vote on Kyl-Lieberman shows she lacks temperament to be President

at least not on the Democratic ticket. No matter what her supporters might say, the facts bear out that Hillary is more ideologically anchored with the Lieberman neocons than she is with liberals and progressives. If you can't deal with that, then too bad!

[lwcon]

210. Whereas Obama's dodging that vote...

... and refusing to sign a letter that limits K-L's scope were the height of leadership.

I guess we'll all get the president you deserve. If we're lucky, relatively speaking.

[FlaGranny]

291. IndianaGreen

Do you know that some years ago you were the only person I ever put on ignore? I believe, but cannot remember for sure, that it was because of some things you were saying about the Clintons that I took issue with. The joke was on me. :-) You were right.

Edit: You didn't last long as ignored, though, because I realized from responses to your "missing" posts that you were a "good guy/gal."

[RiverStone]

164. Your right, best to leave since you see no good here anymore...

I beg to differ.

Much of the anger you speak of has more to do with world peace being on the line than personalities. We are fighting to preserve the PEACE ya know.

Many. many of us will be here and out there carrying the fight to McSame and his war mongering minions. My hope is that you will be doing that as well lwcon - not on DU, but out there with the rest of us.

DU will unify as will the party. Obama will win a compelling and historic victory this fall. I'm grateful we don't march in lockstep like the freepers do.

Happy trails :hi:

[yardwork]

see ya

[yardwork]

165. see ya

[Norwood]

166. No one cares K bye!

[golddigger]

178. You cared enough to reply.

:crazy: :silly:

[Major Hogwash]

195. But not enough to send a Hallmark card.

There's caring, and then there's caring.

[ronnykmarshall]

230. If you cared .....

where's your star?

Did you donate to this site?

Fuck no.

[BigBearJohn]

232. That's exactly the point, isn't it? I wonder if butter melts in your mouth.

[dionysus]

167. sweet! c-ya...

[IndianaGreen]

168. Unfortunately for you, the alternate universe in which Hillary resides is not real

and, quite frankly, I am not alone in being fed up with the endless psychodrama of the Clinton clan.

[Blue-Jay]

170. You should start a thread about it.

[AlCzervik]

171. One less car to get in the way of the awesome street hockey game we're planning. Game on.

[Arugula Latte]

179. Bye

:hi:

[joeybee12]

183. Good luck...Obama supporters have made this place unbearable..

...and yes, they show as much logic, reason, and respect for others as seen on Free Republic.

[Cleita]

189. Yawn.....

:boring:

[Major Hogwash]

194. You are Sofa King funny.

Good-bye, and good luck trying to get your groove on.

[L0oniX]

197. Here ...use these to help you leave.

[MS68]

204. Went to the Clinton Library Yesterday...

And I'm with ya.

I was reminded of what a great president Clinton was. There were years of prosperity and respect for the US around the world. A lot of the pictures in the library show Hillary standing beside him with love and admiration or her doing various work to help women and children around the world - often with a beautiful smile on her face.

When all of the campaigning started, I liked both Hillary and Obama but was leaning more toward her because I do think she has a bit more experience - both in politics and life. Yes, she tried to implement a health care plan and it failed, but I know I’ve learned more from my mistakes in life then I have my successes. Also, as a woman, it would be great to see a woman in the Whitehouse. If I didn’t think she was qualified, her being a woman wouldn’t even factor in.

At some point, I started really disliking Obama. I couldn’t really put my finger on it, but I didn’t like him. It finally occurred to me yesterday outside of the Clinton Library that it wasn’t Obama I didn’t like, it was the trash talking and demonizing of the Clinton’s and the Clinton presidency. It’s as bad or worse than what the right wingers have always done. There were parts of the library that made me want to cry - remembering all of the good he did and tried to do while having to fight Newt Gingrich and has faction of right wing bastards. I’ve seen people respond to these kind of statements with YEAH, BUT WHAT ABOUT…. It doesn’t matter, I’m not going to believe that the Clintons are racist or that they want to see Obama assassinated or that they’re Republicans in disguise.

The main reason I was thinking of Obama while outside the library was because while I greatly like, admire and respect the Clintons, I know that Hillary is pretty much done and it’s time to switch allegiance to Obama and beat the crap out of McCain. I finally figured out I could do it and be glad about it, but I also knew I would have to give up my addiction to this site. I kept swearing I wouldn’t go to GDP but when I’d go to GD, I couldn’t help myself. I’m not stating this because I think anybody will care that a person that mostly lurked and has only made a few donations is going away, I’m just trying to point out what you’re doing when you demonize the Clintons - you’re not helping Obama’s cause or changing anybody’s mind for the better - you’re actually doing the opposite. Maybe it would have helped to have a Clinton forum and an Obama forum and make it against the rules to trash talk either one in their respective forums, which possibly could have focused everyone on the positives of their candidate rather than the negatives of the other one. And yes, I know Hillary supporters were also doing some trashing of Obama, but they are far outnumbered, and it’s a little different then trashing a great legacy. I just turned 40 and President Clinton is my JFK.

Or maybe you don’t care - all I know is that its no longer constructive for me because it’s time to go make a donation to Obama and feel good about it!

[AZBlue]

206. And just when you mastered formatting embedded links?

[gristy]

211. There's two sides to every argument. You just happen to be on the wrong side of every one today.

You won't be missed.

[lwcon]

213. My, it's impressive to see...

... how obsessed with doling out the STFU this community has become.

It's my last freakin' OP but the countless clever folks among you are applying your rapier-like wits to dredging up every good-riddance cliche you can muster.

How many loyal, lifetime Democrats have you driven from this site with your fratboy faux-progressivism? Must be in the thousands.

It's not groupthink or doublethink, of course. Not at all.

It's merely constantly chanting the same lies at anyone who dares criticize your idealized candidate or dares support the candidate you dehumanize.

At least in "1984," the hate exercises only lasted 120 seconds.

[MilesColtrane]

215. I saw this on an old Saturday Night Live rerun.

John Belushi is...THE THING THAT WOULDN'T LEAVE!!!

:scared:

[cosmicsheep]

234. Pot, I hope you have a nice meting with your kettle at your new home

"the countless clever folks among you are applying your rapier-like wits to dredging up every good-riddance cliche you can muster."

"It's merely constantly chanting the same lies at anyone who dares criticize your idealized candidate or dares support the candidate you dehumanize."


Your to be admired for your generosity of spirit!!!

[SanchoPanza]

243. Lambasting people to whom you are waving farewell...

Doesn't normally lead to hugs and kisses as you walk out the door.

Just sayin'.

[JVS]

288. The point of saying good bye is that you leave!

[FlaGranny]

292. We have our candidate.

We won't miss the folks who can't accept who it is. Soon Skinner himself will ban the anti-candidate folks unless they come to their senses and start acting like Democrats.

[lojasmo]

219. Have fun obliterating Iran!

"Do you think they have a chance?"

"It'd take a miracle."

[Gore1FL]

222. Can we let this one sink please?

Vanity threads about hissy fits belong on page 5 as soon as they are posted. This one keeps inexplicably popping up.

Please let this be the last post

PLEASE.

[progressoid]

226. OK

Oh damn, sorry.



(it's like a train wreck - everybody wants to gawk!)

[Hoof Hearted]

260. No problem!

[ronnykmarshall]

227. You take care.

I don't post here much anymore and in time that will be over for me as well. But I'll be around at least to when my star is gone.

You be good and you have my deepest respect. I'll join you in time. But there are some friends here that I still want to keep in touch with for a while.

[BigBearJohn]

231. Wow. I never thought of it that way. Thanks for sharing your reasons. I agree.

If I didn't like Skinner, I would probably leave too.
But, as long as I know we have somebody as fair and thoughtful
as Skinner at the helm, I'll stick around for awhile.

[mythyc]

236. yawn. whatever.

don't let the door hit you on the way out

chuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmp

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

245. You're 100% Spot On And Many Of Us Agree With You. It's Disgraceful How Some Here Behave.

I'm still in awe sometimes when I read the comments from some towards her, and wonder how their minds can be so incredibly skewed and their insight so flawed. I feel for them a bit.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

250. Superb post!

:kick:

[Catherina]

256. I'd agree if only it were true n/t

[apocalypsehow]

251. Big hearty K & R!!! See yah - hope you stay gone. n/t.

[Elspeth]

252. At least GD-P; other forums are ok.

Your post is on target.

[Lord Helmet]

253. bye now

[kdpeters]

254. Excellent post!!! K&R. Please leave DU for good. Now is the perfect time.

[madrchsod]

255. bye-bye......

[CaptJasHook]

257. If you are leaving because of your candidate, then I feel sorry for you.

She was a lousy candidate. She could have been great but she choose to go Rovian.

You are being hyperbolic in your statements of GD/P. And your closing statements are too similar to the other DU quiters/Hillaryis44 supporters for me not to think that you are just another plant.

You are wrong

"The dream has just begun"

[Bread and Circus]

261. cry more.

[mythyc]

268. .

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[grantcart]

262. This thread actually was captured in this classic movie by Peter Sellers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_JWywDqgRs

[kikiek]

263. Someone has finally found fitting words and reason for the swan song.

[Hoof Hearted]

264. Let's kick it again!

[DefenseLawyer]

265. Well... bye.

[dionysus]

267. that OP was no daisy, no daisy at all..

[DefenseLawyer]

270. Reading this OP is like playing cards with my brother's kids!

[dionysus]

271. where ya going with that shotgun, johnny?

[Beacool]

266. I'm sorry to see you go!!

There aren't many Hillary supporters left on this board.

Funny, how many accuse you, and her supporters, of being Republicans if we do not genuflect to their guy. I thought the Democratic party was the party of inclusion, I stand corrected. We are told we must fall in line and back the Anointed One or we are not good little Dems. Fascism much?

Take care and Godspeed to you!!

:hi:

[LSK]

272. Goodbye

I hope in the next few months you can get over your love affair for a candidate who loves the lobbyists more than she loves you.

[Greyskye]

273. Callous Cat does not care

[Cherchez la Femme]

274. Has anyone noticed

the huge numbers of non-starred (people who have not donated to DU) who are for Obama?
and who go out of their way to be deliberately insulting to their 'fellow Democrats' who are for Hillary?

Now, please don't attack me, but I'm neither for nor against Hillary, same as Sen. Obama -- whoever the primary winner, as fraught with problems as the primary may be, will be who I'm voting for.
Why ambivalent? Hillary is definitely stronger on the issues, esp. on women's rights and on reproductive rights, which are extremely important to me; but she's also too DLC and too blind-sided when it comes to Israel, not to mention her penchant for hawkishness (but then as a female candidate, she'd have to be hawkish in order to be viable). However, the completely unreasonable attacks upon her and her supporters from the Obama camp strongly pull me to her side

but I want to vote with my mind instead of my feelings, so I try not to get in the middle of things too much and try not to let the extreme (yes, much worse than Hillary supporters insulting those of Obama; I have personally not seen any racist comments, but sexist? Aplenty!).
Which besides, arguments are futile (I certainly can't say 'discussions') -- people's minds are made up, don't bother them with the facts, nor even basic consideration and politeness!


Anyways I'm wondering, after the horrific treatment here at DU from both the starred & non-starred members (which will be interesting in itself to see how that plays out after the primary and election -- methinks there are more than a few wolves in sheeps clothing here) and the moderators (who seem to be blind to their own rules about respectful & slanderous language when it comes to Senator Clinton, Bill, and Democrats in general!), if the Hillary supporters, who have taken so much crap, are going to continue to support DU?


Considering what I've seen here in my short time, because of that last sentence/query I wouldn't be surprised if this post were deleted. I reread the rules, and don't see anything where that would be appropriate, but who knows at this place? Does anyone see where it would be justified to delete this comment because of that question? Just wondering, in case it's pulled

...it'd be nice to see how far the state of affairs here have truly gotten to -- they've already gone pretty far.

Terribly sad for our party and this site. Both are going to lose many good members because of the viciousness especially now when we need, if not to all agree, to at least be unified against the REAL threat and enemy of our country and our Constitution.

[newmajority]

275. Guess you can blame that on the BushClinton economic policies of the last 28 years

Ever think maybe some people can't afford a donation to a website right now?

And you call US "elitists"??

[Cherchez la Femme]

278. And up pops proof

immediately, too.

Of course I've thought that many can't afford a donation right now -- but why the huge disparity between Obama supporters and Clinton supporters?


"BushClinton economic policies of the last 28 years"?

Do you all ever tire of aping, and adding to, Republican talking points? Yes, Republican -- Clinton was president only 8 of your 28 years, yet unbelievably our most successful Democratic president in decades is lumped in with Reagan, GW & W; AND when, especially economically, the US was in better shape than it had been for decades under Bill Clinton?! Yet he's now vilified by members of our own party. For what? To score guilt-by-association rights.
Pathetic.
Really, many of you are no better than the W kool-aid drinkers when it comes to making a monster of absolutely everyone but your own special darling -- everyone else, Democrats included, be damned.


And BTW -- where in my post did I call anyone "elitist"?
The knee-jerk reactions just continue on and on...
Seriously, keep it to yourself or keep on posting if you wish, I don't care in general nor do I care to respond further. Go ahead, have the last word and prove my post doubly.
I don't have the time, stomach or energy to argue with another Democrat -- for I know who the real enemy is and I do not care to emulate their rhetoric and tactics as you do.

[Norwood]

276. No one cares K, Thx bye!

[Occam Bandage]

279. Barely even recognize the name. Won't miss you.

[Dr Fate]

281. Exactly- nevah hoid of 'em.

n/t

[zulchzulu]

280. Ickes: "What has changed is that now we are behind."

Harold Ickes agreed to the Four State Pledge last September, along with Hillary Clinton. You have to look up what that means...I've referenced it 2,000 times already.

However, months later, when asked why Ickes was fighting the DNC rules and the Four State Pledge he signed on to, he replied "What has changed is that now we are behind."

You figure it out. If you're leaving DU because cheating and lying are the ways to "win" in your view, then so long.

[Voltaire99]

282. Jesus Christ, that blog you linked to sucks raw nuts!

What a steaming pile; out with you, and fast.

[Honeycombe8]

283. In other words, "We didn't get our way 100% ! Waaaaaa, waaaaa waaaaaaa!" nt

[intaglio]

284. Your goddess has feet of clay

[high density]

286. What a perfect time for us to say don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

Fucking lame spam for your site.

[Colobo]

289. It's over. Obama is our nominee.

[FlaGranny]

290. I wonder how many

people who are outraged at following the DNC rules are from Florida or Michigan? It would be interesting to know.

I voted in Florida and my vote was counted. If our votes had not been counted how in the world would anyone know what the popular vote results were in the state. Interestingly, no one's vote actually counts for Clinton OR Obama anyway. We were voting for delegates. We got half our delegates due to the generosity of the DNC, when they could have given us none. Half instead of none for rule breakers. Seems fair to me.

Edit: If tables had been turned and Obama had been the winner in Florida, I certainly would be disappointed, but they did come up with a very fair compromise.

[IsItJustMe]

294. For you in your little universe anyway. Go for it. Do what you got to do. I for one want to be a

part of the solution, You, not so much. Good luck.

[Overseas]

295. Yes, you should quit DU to show solidarity for the Honorable Harold Ickes !! /fin