Hillary's Nonsensical, Historical Excuse for RFK Assassination Crack:

[Barrymores Ghost]

First of all, folks, Bill Clinton effectively had the Democratic nomination locked up on March 20, 1992, when Paul Tsongas withdrew from the race. Gerry Brown was the only other Dem left standing at that juncture, short on cash and a 7-1 underdog against Clinton.

Secondly, the 2008 primaries have now been dragging on since January. In 1968, Bobby Kennedy didn't enter the race until after watching Eugene McCarthy nearly upset Lyndon Johnson in New Hampshire, when Kennedy realized just how ideologically polarized the party was. His first primary didn't even roll around until May 7, 1968, and he was dead less than a month later. So, from a purely historical context, Hillary even mentioning Bobby Kennedy (or his murder) in '68 -- or her own husband's campaign in '92 -- when talking about protracted American political primaries, is a false premise for argumentation.

Also, this is not the first time Hillary Clinton has raised the spectre of Bobby's assassination to justify her ongoing hijacking of the Democratic primary process. Now, it didn't generate much flap back in March but, especially given the racial overtones that this campaign season has taken on, wouldn't it make sense for her campaign advisers to insist that a) she get her political/historical references straight and b) she refrain from alluding to a murdered political figure -- regardless of whether that possibility is her rationale for staying in a race, or something else entirely different? I mean, for God's sake -- there's saying the occasional stupid thing, then there's making it a whistle-stop mantra that one chants, over and over.

My point is, either this is a deliberate calculation on her part to play on people's worst fears or it is incontrovertible evidence of a judgmental lapse of the highest order, and showing once again that she's prone to act and speak like a complete dumb-f*ck under pressure.

Frankly, I think America can do a lot better.

[cliffordu]

1. You are exactly fucking right.

K&R

Nice work!!

[Barrymores Ghost]

6. Thanks, bro' - please pass the link around.

People need to fucking know this.

[bjobotts]

79. You couldn't be more petty. "People need to know this". How stupid

[bjobotts]

81. She mentioned MLK's name. An assassinated black man when Obama is black too-Oh No.

[bjobotts]

82. You know what she really meant right...and this affects the election too huh.

[sellitman]

2. Word!

:toast:

[Barrymores Ghost]

11. I could use a beer now...

..and it's not even noon.

[sellitman]

33. It's always time for a Guinness!

[Barrymores Ghost]

38. My Goodness! My Guinness!

:beer:

[Hope And Change]

3. K & R!

:kick:

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

4. she knows that each and every word will reach some nut case

and being "tired" is no fracking excuse. Think Obama doesn't get tired?

Or even Grandpa McCain?

[Barrymores Ghost]

8. I've also thought about that scenario...

...nothing like hedging one's bets, huh? She's been doing it since Michigan.

[AtomicKitten]

5. K&R

:thumbsup:

[Barrymores Ghost]

20. Your signature image rocks, btw. n/t

[AtomicKitten]

23. soon it will be our mantra and unifying factor

:D :dem:

[Barrymores Ghost]

25. God willin' and the river don't rise...

...and thanks for the rec. Please pass around this link to get the word out. Cheers!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6111215&mesg_id=6111215

[yardwork]

7. Agree on all points. k&r

[papapi]

9. I heartily agree. And thank you for the historical context. Recommended.

She can only push us so far before she incites revolution.

[Barrymores Ghost]

10. Thanks, and I am worried, very worried...

...that this could get much uglier unless it stops now.

[eleny]

12. k&r

[Barrymores Ghost]

18. thx! n/t

[beezlebum]

13. k&r!

[Barrymores Ghost]

14. Cheers...

Good to see you, beezlebum!

[beezlebum]

16. ...

:hi:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

15. Her intent in purposely repeating such dialog is more than suspect.

She is not stupid, ergo some other explanation is true...

[Barrymores Ghost]

17. Like I've said before, there is always a reason for everything...

...and if planting the seed with the SD's that she is the "safer bet" is also hedging her bets, then so be it...

[ampad]

19. K/R

[Barrymores Ghost]

21. ...

Please pass around! Cheers.

[kid a]

22. Exactly! I give her the benefit of doubt on the poor word choice, but the premise of her argument

is DEAD WRONG>


THANK YOU!

[Barrymores Ghost]

24. Do you ever wonder why no one is following up on this?

I mean - fifty fucking seconds it took me to blow the entire fable out of the water.

Please pass around this thread. Thanks!

[kid a]

28. HAve you read the Vanity Fair piece (haha..if you saw ironman) on Bobby Kennedy?

I had just finished it when I heard her talking about that primary.

There really is no comparison...AT ALL.
I hope the MSM, after the "assassinate" fervor wears off, looks at the argument.

[Barrymores Ghost]

30. Quick synopsis? n/t

[kid a]

41. Here ya go...

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/06/rfk_excerpt200806

<snip>

Increasingly opposed to the Vietnam War, Robert F. Kennedy struggled over whether he should challenge his party’s incumbent president, Lyndon Johnson, in 1968. His younger brother, Teddy, was against it. His wife, Ethel, urged him on. Many feared he would be assassinated, like the older brother he mourned.

Two months after John F. Kennedy’s assassination, Robert Kennedy traveled to Asia on an itinerary that had originally been planned for J.F.K. During the trip, he visited a girls’ school in the Philippines where the students sang a song they had composed to honor his brother. As he drove away with CBS cameraman Walter Dombrow, he clenched his hands so tightly that they turned white, and tears rolled down his cheeks. He shook his head, signaling that Dombrow should remain silent. Finally he said in a choked voice, “They would have loved my brother.” Dombrow put his arm around him and said, “Bob, you’re going to have to carry on for him.” Kennedy stared straight ahead for half a minute before turning to Dombrow and nodding. It was then, Dombrow said, that he knew Bobby would run for president and realized how much he loved him.



A deep, black grief gripped Robert Kennedy in the months following his brother’s assassination. He lost weight, fell into melancholy silences, wore his brother’s clothes, smoked the cigars his brother had liked, and imitated his mannerisms. Eventually his grief went underground, but it sometimes erupted in geysers of tears, as had happened in the Philippines. He wept after seeing a photograph of his late brother in the office of a former aide, wept when asked to comment on the Warren Commission Report, and wept after eulogizing J.F.K. at the 1964 Democratic convention with a quotation from Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet: “When he shall die, take him and cut him out in little stars, and he shall make the face of heaven so fine that all the world will be in love with night and pay no worship to the garish sun.”
Robert F. Kennedy


Kennedy was still mourning his brother and endeavoring to live for him when he ran for the U.S. Senate from New York in the autumn of 1964, telling a friend that he wanted to ensure that the hopes J.F.K. had kindled around the world would not die, and saying in his victory statement that he had won “an overwhelming mandate to continue the policies” of President Kennedy. And at first it appeared that his 1968 presidential campaign—challenging his brother’s successor, Lyndon Johnson, for the Democratic Party’s nomination—would be another homage to J.F.K. Bobby announced his candidacy on March 16 in the caucus room of the Old Senate Office Building, the room that his brother had used for the same purpose. He stood in the same spot and began with the same sentence: “I am announcing today my candidacy for the presidency of the United States.” After saying that he was running to “close the gaps that now exist between black and white, between rich and poor, between young and old,” he concluded with a passage that made him sound like his brother, perhaps because it had been contributed in part by Ted Sorensen, who had been his brother’s speechwriter: “I do not lightly dismiss the dangers and the difficulties of challenging an incumbent President. But these are not ordinary times and this is not an ordinary election. At stake is not simply the leadership of our party and even our country. It is our right to the moral leadership of this planet.”

[Barrymores Ghost]

45. Crying....thank you for sending this. n/t

[patrick t. cakes]

74. damn thats a great picture....

:thumbsup: :patriot:

[Aloha Spirit]

26. I'll add that, unlike the previous dozen times when I've shunned people who seemed "TOO" anxious to

condemn her... at this point, we have no fucking idea if she ever believes what she says, and therefore we have every right to attribute whatever motivations we feel like properly attributing to her, be they sloppy or mischievous. Because there is no fucking way to determine what she means when she says something.

[williesgirl]

27. k&r

[MethuenProgressive]

29. Silly. "The race can last into June" doesn't ="She wants BO killed"

Desperate hysteria by the Followers doesn't = fact or truth.

[thewiseguy]

32. Are you trying to be dumb on purpose?

[MethuenProgressive]

37. Only the truly twisted can play this into "She hopes for BO's death"

[Barrymores Ghost]

39. Only the truly gullible or cognitively dissonant...

..blind themselves to all other political possibilities. Or to Hillary's plain stupidity and ineptitude and desperation.

[MethuenProgressive]

40. Only the truly gullible or cognitively dissonant believe what the HillHaters are selling.

This recent sewage produced by the HillHaters is a new low.
And considering how low the HillHaters have gone, that's quite an accomplishment.

[Barrymores Ghost]

42. You are absolutely hopeless.

You read only what affirms your pre-conceived notions, and disregard all else, no matter its empirical fact or relevancy. How truly sad.

As the saying goes: the train will soon be leaving the station. Get on board, or be left standing on the tracks, blinking through the smoke as everyone else leaves you behind.

[Barrymores Ghost]

43. P.S. Did you even LOOK at my other response to you?

It might have spared you from saying additional foolish things.

[Barrymores Ghost]

35. I didn't say that, and you know it.

What I am saying is that her historical precedence rationale is bullshit that is shot full of holes, and that she should have known better than to make such a stupid allusion -- especially for the third time. Obviously it was stupid, given the blow-back she's currently suffering by her own hand (or mouth...or foot-in-mouth).

Finally, it doesn't escape me that, given the fallacy of her argumentation, there was another motive for saying it -- and that these remarks (intentionally or no) might send a signal to voters and SD's that she is a "safer bet," given present racial tensions.

[liberalcommontater]

78. Just because a majority runs with a false interpretation does not...

make it reasonable. The analogy was imperfect as are all analogies. Others have campaigned in June, she is going to do so, end of story except for the hysteria.

[liberalcommontater]

77. Agreed. nt

[me b zola]

31. K&R

:kick:

[Barrymores Ghost]

66. Thx! n/t

[helderheid]

34. Rec 30. Thank you so much.

[Barrymores Ghost]

36. Bless you, my dear friend. n/t

[slinkerwink]

44. thank you for kicking

[Barrymores Ghost]

47. and thank you...check out this link to Vanity Fair that slinkerwink sent me...

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/06/rfk_excerpt200806

[Garbo 2004]

46. 3/20/92 NYT: Tsongas Abandons Campaign, Leaving Clinton A Clear Path Toward Showdown with Bush

March 20, 1992
THE 1992 CAMPAIGN: Primaries; TSONGAS ABANDONS CAMPAIGN, LEAVING CLINTON A CLEAR PATH TOWARD SHOWDOWN WITH BUSH
By ROBIN TONER,

Former Senator Paul E. Tsongas of Massachusetts withdrew from the race for the Democratic Presidential nomination today, a decision that many in his party said all but insured the selection of Gov. Bill Clinton of Arkansas.

Mr. Tsongas announced his departure at a news conference in Boston, where he said his campaign did not have enough money to continue. His move leaves only former Gov. Edmund G. Brown Jr. of California to compete with Mr. Clinton in the remaining primaries and caucuses in 21 states.

Without adequate money to win, Mr. Tsongas said, "the alternative was to play the role of spoiler." 'That Is Not Worthy'

"That is not what I'm about," he continued. "That is not worthy. I did not survive my ordeals in order to be the agent of the re-election of George Bush." < Excerpts, page A14. >

Mr. Clinton is already close to the halfway mark in the number of delegates needed to win the nomination and has a 7-to-1 edge over Mr. Brown, who is running a maverick, anti-establishment campaign. Many Democrats said that barring an unexpected collapse by Mr. Clinton's campaign, it is difficult to see how Mr. Brown can overtake the Governor.

"It certainly brings it much closer to a conclusion," said Ronald H. Brown, the Democratic national chairman. "You could argue that it's theoretically possible for Jerry Brown to mount a come-from-behind challenge, but the math and the reality of Bill Clinton's momentum certainly work against him."
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE0DE1F3FF933A15750C0A964958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=print

[Barrymores Ghost]

49. Greta, great find! That sums up 1992.

Read this article in Vanity Fair on Bobby:

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/06/rfk_excerpt200806

[Garbo 2004]

60. Yup. And HRC's comparison of '68 primary timeline & process to 2008 is specious too.

Primaries/caucuses in '68 started much later than 2008, there were far fewer in number than now, and did not have the prominence and impact on nomination they do now. Deals for selection of nominee were made at the convention: the nominee was not primarily determined by results of the primaries/caucuses that existed then.

In 1968 Hubert Humphrey was selected as nominee at the convention without having competed in a primary election.

[Barrymores Ghost]

65. People forget that Humphrey assumed the Democratic mantle only after....

...Johnson's announcement in March of '68 that he would not seek re-election.

Again, the premise is false on so many levels.

[K Gardner]

52. Bingo. Good find.

[Doun]

48. Makes me sick to even imagine

That her rationale for staying in a race is the murder of RFK..! It's just too far fetched.

She mispoke, like she always mispeaks... And we'll get the same mispeaking with Clinton as President.

[Barrymores Ghost]

51. I don't believe that's her rationale...but,

...I believe she's perfectly capable of trying to subliminally sell that rationale to others as a reason to go with her -- because she's a "safer" bet.

[Swamp Rat]

50. Already one friend has expressed fear for Obama's life after hearing her remark.

'Fear' - the weapon used by Karl Rove and apparently Mark Penn.

No matter how one views her intentions, the end result is the same.

[Barrymores Ghost]

53. Exactly. See my reponse to Doun, immediately above. n/t

[K Gardner]

54. K&R.. worth reading and re-reading.

[Barrymores Ghost]

55. Thanks, K n/t

[KSinTX]

56. Remember, after Penn's exit she took control of her campaign

so there's no one to listen to except herself.

[Barrymores Ghost]

57. Then I REALLY have to question her motives for saying it, now. n/t

[crickets]

58. K&R

.

[Barrymores Ghost]

59. . . .

Thanks! Here's a great read on Bobby Kennedy, from Vanity Fair:

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/06/rfk_excerpt200806

[union_maid]

61. And then there's party unity

1968 is a strange year to pick if you're saying that going into June with a contested primary is just fine. That convention was a historical clusterf*ck and the Dems lost. When you consider the original question put to her the explanations make less sense, not more.

[Barrymores Ghost]

64. Wow, I completely missed that. Great point. n/t

[pompano]

62. It's just another deflection....

Accurately or inaccurately revisiting history does not minimize a distasteful and cruel point.

To drag this disappointing remark off center stage and into a corner to have the historical facts revisited and parced is damage control in it's most lame and elementary attempt. Using something as terrible and revolting as this in the same context as a political point stands on it's own merit. Then some half-hearted, incomplete attempt at an apology underscores the belief some have knowing that nothing is so out of bounds to her and what she wants and thinks is owed to her. Hillary is owed nothing, contrary to what her and some of her rabid minions believe. The minutes her remarks are compared against history are the minutes these remarks hide from the real tragedy of motive, insensivity and worse yet I'm Hillary, I say anything I choose...it is, afterall, my turn, get over it!.

These remarks simply won't fly anymore.

Thats my opinion.

[Barrymores Ghost]

63. You nailed it.

Thanks.

[K Gardner]

67. Most excellent response !

[cliffordu]

68. KICKED JUST BECAUSE IT'S A GREAT POST!!!!

[Barrymores Ghost]

85. Thanks, pally!

:toast:

[Riverman]

69. With Her Tactics, Just Imagine: She gets the nomination, then in late

October, after two months of her campaign repeating slogan "Hilary vs.the Good Old Boys," she says to the Editorial Board of the Arizona Republic to a question: "Senator Clinton, do you feel that it is fair to make age an issue in your campaign against Senator McCain, who if elected would the oldest President to start his first term?"

Senator Clinton's response: "Well you know, we don't know everyting that is in those medical reports he released last May, and I just hope and pray that with the rigors, strain and pressure of campaigning non-stop, that he makes it to the election. You know there was a president who died a month after taking the oath of office, causing a constitutional crises."

From Wikipedia:

When Harrison took office in 1841 at the age of 68, he was the oldest man to become President - a record that stood for 140 years, until Ronald Reagan was inaugurated in 1981 at the age of 69. Harrison died thirty-one days into his term — the briefest presidency in the history of the office. He was also the first U.S. President to die while in office. His death threw the country into a constitutional crisis.<1>

[slutticus]

70. +1

[FogerRox]

71. Yes, we can do better

I thought a stroll down history lane was in order.


From Wiki


At the moment of RFK's death, the delegate totals were:

* Hubert Humphrey 561
* Robert F. Kennedy 393
* Eugene McCarthy 258



Only 13 states held a primary at this time (California, Oregon, Nebraska, South Dakota, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Florida).

Results by winners<3>:

Eugene McCarthy: Illinois, Massachusetts, New Jersey, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin

Robert F. Kennedy: California, Indiana, Nebraska, South Dakota

Lyndon B. Johnson: New Hampshire

Stephen M. Young: Ohio

George Smathers: Florida

March 12: New Hampshire Primary McCarthy won 42% to Johnson's 49%

The momentum ended, however, when Senator Kennedy announced his candidacy four days later, on March 16, as McCarthy supporters cried betrayal and vowed to defeat Kennedy. Thereafter McCarthy and Kennedy would engage in an increasingly bitter series of state primaries; although Kennedy won most of the primaries, he could never shake McCarthy and his devoted following of antiwar activists, which included many Hollywood celebrities such as Paul Newman, Barbra Streisand, and Burt Lancaster.


There were only 13 primaries. And New Hampshire was March 12th. This makes the June reference even more weird to me, sort of off kilter.

[FloridaJudy]

94. Weird to me, too

I remember the night Kennedy was shot vividly. I was up late listening to the radio (I had no TV) for the California primary returns. The California Primary returns, something Clinton left out of her analogy. Primary elections started a lot later then - fortunately for me, since I wouldn't have been able to vote had they started as early as they do now, since I'd just turned 21.

The whole damned analogy was flawed. The upshot of the '68 primary wasn't that the second place runner galloped to the finish: it was a complete mess of a convention in which all the Dem's dirty laundry was aired live, and the divide in the party probably led to Nixon's election.

I must say if Senator Clinton is trying to divide the party again, she's doing a great job. :sarcasm:

[Mimosa]

72. There was NO Valid Reason for a *False* Comparison to 1968: HRC=Inexcusable

There was no valid comparison to be made between 1968 and 2008. The Vanity Fair article (excerpted from a new book about Bobby Kennedy) The Last Good Campaign" makes one want to read the whole book:

http://vincentandmorticiasspeakeasy14846.yuku.com/topic/3383

Hillary and her cohorts such as Terry McAuliffe and Joe Trippi have repeatedly alluded 'anything can happen.' They're disgusting and indecent. Such violence would tear apart what's left of unity in these United States.

[liberalcommontater]

80. Why do you assume that she means the worst could happen?

[Barrymores Ghost]

86. Or to 1992, for that matter, but the '68 reference was beyond the pale...

..and clearly designed to cast fear and doubt into the minds of voters and SD's.

She's disgusting.

[Maineman]

73. I agree. Good summary.

Should be over soon, early June.

KEEP MR. OBAMA SAFE.

[Barrymores Ghost]

87. Cheers. n/t

[AllyCat]

75. Johnathan Alter said something similar, but without the timelines you present

and when I mentioned it another thread, I was told by Clinton supporter that Alter is a misogynist who doesn't want to see a woman in the "boys club". So are you a misogynist too? Why do you hate women?

[Barrymores Ghost]

91. I dunno. I'm sure it has something to do with deep-seeded...

...feelings of rejection from my mother. Maybe a breast-feeding thing?

[liberalcommontater]

76. Pehaps it would have helped if Hillary...

had explained all of this first before saying that others had in fact contested the nomination into June. I am going to give you a historical reference as to the normalcy in my staying in the race, but first here is the context, detail and footnotes substantiating each word. Why does it have to be a perfect analogy. Analogies are by definition imperfect...others have campaigned in June, she is going to do so too.

Our fear for the candidates' safety does not imbue their comments with any more or less meaning except in our own minds. It is a measure of our own hysteria.

As for hijacking the primary process, it seems obvious that the press and Obama supporters want her out. Tough. She will get out on her own timetable, not theirs.

Robert Kennedy was assassinated, as tragic an event as the murder of JFK or Lincoln given the importance of the election and his political heft and courage. The fact that he was assassinated does not make his campaign an off limits topic. I would argue that Hillary is much more Robert Kennedy-like than Obama. She is a champion for the poor and vunerable, yet involved with the economic and political movers and shakers. She can play hardball...anyone ever hear of Bobby Kennedy being called ruthless? I don't take that as shameful, but a badge of honor. She and he can take on the biggest players there are...can Obama?

[Barrymores Ghost]

88. You should probably familiarize yourself with...

...Barack Obama's history as a community activist, prior to his emergence in the Illionois State legislature, befopre you laud Hillary Clinton as the "people's candidate."

Oh, and you don't get to the top of Chicago politics by being a smooth-talking pretty boy.

Finally, there is no excuse for alluding to the assassination of Bobby Kennedy as a rationalization for staying in a lost race. Period.

[liberalcommontater]

89. She did not allude to the assassination as a reason to stay in...

she noted the fact that he was assassinated in June which means he was campaigning in June, as we all remember given the times and who he was, which answered the question she was asked about staying in the race into June, ie others have done that. It had nothing to do with Obama. She was talking about herself, so if you want to make a more legitimate comparison based on what she said you would have to say that she was comparing herself to Kennedy. This could be stretched further to say, 1) she is putting herself at risk of being assassinated because she thinks she is the better candidate even though she has little to no chance to win or 2) by comparing her situation to that of Robert Kennedy, she is calling for her own assassination. This is all nonsense of course, but it is more logical and is less of a stretch than to say she was somehow staying in in case something happened to Obama.

People's candidate...traditional democrat vs someone part of the Dailey political machine...I'm not saying he is impure, but success in Chicago politics is not about being a smooth-talking pretty boy, but going along to get along.

Obviously we disagree about what she meant by what she said. Seems more people agree with your take on it. That I concede. I really don't see it that way though.

Cheers.

[Barrymores Ghost]

90. Please define "traditional Democrat" as you see it, then juxtapose to what Hillary Clinton...

...has morphed into. This should be interesting.

Back again to RFK in '68: the allusion to his murder was ghoulish and gratuitous -- regardless of her intended context -- which goes back to my OP that delineates in short and succinct fashion, I think, the extremely reckless and thoughtless nature of the comment. That she didn't see this train coming indicates, to me, an inexplicable blindspot...or something else.

That was not a seed that needed to be re-planted in ANYONE's mind. And given the black community's initial caution in backing Obama (you'll recall they were solidly behind Clinton until he showed himself to be a highly-viable candidate), I read her remark as a last-ditch effort of hers to plant fear of potential violent outcome.

Peace.

[liberalcommontater]

93. Sure...

This ought to be good kind of tips your hand that you don't think I can do it and if I do, then I must be deluded, but here goes...

I do not buy the meme that she is only in it for herself. I think any successful politician must have the personal fortitude and self-confidence that can come off as self-centered, insincere, ruthless (as Bobby Kennedy was called) etc. I think she has had a social conscience since early in her life. I also think that like Bill she is a political realist. Bill made the best (and a little more than the best with Monica) of a bad situation with the Republicans in control of Congress. I didn't like everything he did, but I understood. And, given the vicious political climate that was after him I understand his actions even more. I think Hillary is the same. I have read many criticisms of both Bill and Hillary, but I am convinced that if she were president with 60 democratic senators and 20 more democratic house members, many of the fears about Hillary would prove unfounded.

I think she believes in social justice and the power of government to promote it. I think she understands fiscal responsibility...I get this more from how Bill handled the budget than from how she has spent money during her campaign. I do think she is 100% on board the green revolution. I think she is pro-Choice from conviction, not political calculation. I believe she is strongly in favor of privacy rights given the drubbing she and Bill endured. I think she would follow Bill's example of using the military sparingly.

Cheers.

[Exilednight]

95. Let's put a few myths to bed ........

Myth #1 - Bill never balanced the budget. The government keeps two sets of books. Even when he said he balanced the budget, and his supposed surplus, he actually ran a $300 billion deficit. http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-08-02-deficit-usat_x.htm

Myth #2 - Bill was pro-corporation and anti-worker/union. This was reflected in his two SC appointments in his first term, Ginsburg and Breyer, were all about deregulation. In fact, one of them - I forget which - was the point man for deregulation of the airline industry. More than 75% of cases involving Corporate America, both justices have sided against workers, unions, stock holders, and sided with CEO's and the corporations. Both Justices ruled that Enron stock holders could not sue Skilling, Lay and Enron proper. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/16/magazine/16supreme-t.html

Myth #3 - Bill was not a shining beacon of hope for privacy rights. Remember Project Carnivore? This is the only article I could find, but I'm sure if you googled around you could find more. http://tabacco.blog-city.com/carnivore__on_the_internet_its_watching_you_fbi_internet_sur.htm

[Barrymores Ghost]

96. Two paragraphs of unsubstantiated opinion.

Exilednight's already said everything that's needed to dispel your rather quaint, Clinton-PR-machine engendered fairy tale, but let me know if you need more -- I have a lot I could add.

[liberalcommontater]

97. I thought you were asking for my perspective...

"as I see it." What I wrote is definately opinion given in general terms to define what I see as a traditional democrat.

I thought that was the question you asked.

[Barrymores Ghost]

98. When I ask someone to defend a position or clarify a point...

...I have a general and, I think, reasonable expectation for substantiation, not conjecture -- and certainly not historical revisionism.

Color me picky that way.

[Dystopian]

83. Facts. Thank you. K&R

Awesome post, heartfelt thanks for doing the research.


peace~

[Barrymores Ghost]

99. Happy to do it.

This shit has to stop, sometime.

[DanTex]

84. Great post.

The problem is that Hillary rarely actually "means" any of the things she says. It's basically all spin and PR.

I mean, almost every single word out of her mouth during that whole statement was obvious BS:

-It's not "unprecedented in history" for candidates to withdraw (or to be urged to withdraw) for party unity. For example, the Reps urged Huckabee to withdraw for unity just this year.
-Nobody tried to push her out "since Iowa". It only started when she had less than 1% chance of winning without some catastrophe happening to Obama.
-The Obama camp has never suggested that she should drop out.
-She's lying through her teeth when she says "I don't understand" the unity argument -- unless she's completely braindead.
-The Bill Clinton analogy was BS
-The RFK analogy was BS.

100% BS. Did she "mean" any of it? Who knows what is going on in her head.

Maybe she meant it as a double entendre. Her "official" meaning was that RFK was still campaigning. But she was in a particularly bitter mood, so she left the word "assassinated" as a jab.

[Barrymores Ghost]

92. Well, it seems like Hillary's asininity is getting the traction it needs, thanks to Faux...

Listen to this, and try not to break something:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x137586#137701