Eugene Robinson on MSNBC yesterday about the Hillary incident:

[senseandsensibility]

I am paraphrasing, but he basically said, she said it. That's what she meant. There is no other way to read it.

For those of you not familiar with Robinson, he is a well known African American journalist, and a frequent guest on MSNBC, especially Keith and David Gregory's shows. He is liberal, but not a flamethrower.

I am wondering what this latest incident will do to her relations with African Americans. Although you could argue that they couldn't get any worse, I think they could. And this "gaffe" could be the last straw for them.

[cliffordu]

1. Yep - he has been WAY too gentle with Hill and the racial stuff in the past

he was really shook up yesterday - in his quiet, thoughtful manner -

He also said something along the lines that he couldn't believe anyone would try to spin it any other way.

That was right after Rachel said it was 'ghoulish'.

[senseandsensibility]

2. That's why his comment stood out for me

He has been very gentle with her.

[sktmax]

3. VIDEO Eugene Robinson rips Hillary over Kennedy assassination

Here's the link to the video of what Robinson said
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_Z-C-okb68

[senseandsensibility]

4. Thanks for the link

I hope everyone views it.

[WA98296]

5. That was about the most generous comment he made about it yesterday.

He was stunned. "SHE SAID IT."

[bluereality]

6. Robinson said, "There's no other way to read it". I guess RFK Jr. didn't get the memo

There are other ways to read it.

[senseandsensibility]

9. RFK can read it any way he wants

of course and say anything he wants about it. But inspite of the fact that Hillary limited her fake apology to the Kennedys, this issue is not all about them. She ignored Obama completely, and the racial implications of her remarks. Eugene Robinson does not speak for all African Americans, but he probably speaks for a good percentage of them.

[bluereality]

12. racial implications?

huh?

[EFerrari]

16. Howard Feinman said last night that Obama has been getting death threats

since he got into the race.

He's not getting them because he's a democrat.

[senseandsensibility]

19. Thanks sfexpat

The level of denial among some when it comes to racism is difficult indeed to overcome. Yet some of these same posters are the first to cry sexism.

[EFerrari]

28. It's a situation a lot of us intuit and even so, don't want to know.

When I'm watching Obama in a crowd, I noticed a while ago that I'm not looking at him but scanning for his security detail.

Maybe we all need to visualize him getting sworn in and dying of old age in his sleep at 150.

[bluereality]

23. He's not getting them because of Hillary's remarks either, and you exaggerate the death threats

Do you know how many death threats he has received, and how many have been considered serious?

[EFerrari]

27. Did you read my post?

i haven't desbribed the threats in any way, so there's no way I can have exaggerated them.

Feinman said that it's common knowledge. You can see why they wouldn't talk about it on camera -- that would be incredibly stupid and even dangerous. This is the first time since Doris Lessing brought it up in print some months ago that I've heard anyone say it in public.

/oops

[hokies4ever]

52. You don't know

so stop pretending that you do. I'm calling you out on this BS. You part of his security detail or something?

[EFerrari]

53. Did you misplace your post? n/t

[hokies4ever]

Wouldn't RFK be the favorite to get Hillary's NY Senate seat

if she became the Vice President? I'm not claiming ulterior motives, but at least the appearance of a conflict of interest. I'm curious to know if he supports a joint ticket.

[cliffordu]

13. This wasn't about RFK. No apology needed.

It was about Obama not making it. Did she apologize to Obama???

Your "argument" in this is as intellectually specious as hers. Congratulations.

[ericgtr]

7. Eugene doesn't get like that at all normally

This one pushed him over the edge and many others as well. Even Howard Feinman showed a lot of disappointment over it and they are both right, there is no other way to view this to any sane person.

[Cosmocat]

36. She LITERALLY said ...

I am staying in this in case someone kills him ...

Those are her WORDS ...

The general outrage over this has not been focused ... Some may not like it, but KO got it right ...

[LaurenG]

8. However she meant it it was totally horrifying. nt

[asjr]

10. Eugene Robinson has become the

same as other African-American journalists and pundits. Blast Hillary. Nothing she says won't be ridiculed. They have betrayed their own constituency. For the first time we have 2 candidates running for president. One white, one black. Bob Herbert, C. King and now Eugene Robinson have jumped on the Obama bandwagon and will twist anything Hillary Clinton says to suit their own egos. I don't think Obama wants to win that way. And don't jump on me and say I'm racist. I live in a multi-racial family and can always see two sides. The only racism coming out in this election comes from the media and the ego-serving pundits.

[IADEMO2004]

14. Wasn't David Axelrod his intern years ago?

[ellacott]

15. It's funny to see this stuff then people say, "don't call me racist"

Too funny

Eugene's is not to blast anyone and for you to say that calls into question everything else you posted.

There's some common sense that's missing from many of these arguments from folks like you. It may be true that you can "see" 2 sides but what you perceive could be entirely off.

It never occurs to you folks that many people have come to the same conclusion about Hillary and what they find is disappointing and distasteful.

There are very few people in the media who are saying what she said is okay.

[asjr]

21. I'm glad to see you are amused

about "folks like you."

[ellacott]

31. Thanks for the amusement

[EFerrari]

17. Robinson is one of the smartest, fairest people

on any show. I know because he's 'way too conservative for me. :)

[bluereality]

20. Yes. Gene is a one-trick pony

He only does one thing.

[Gore1FL]

32. Is see... So Hillary is the real victim here????

Amazing...

[stillcool]

35. It's not the first time the Clinton's strategy...

has been described as waiting for the "Catastrophic Event". I think we can all imagine the various scenario's in which the event could take place...especially because she has referenced the 1968 campaign before. I don't understand why people are surprised. And why you would be surprised that someone, anyone, would draw such a conclusion...whether the person be black or white..not that I'm a racist or anything.

Interview with Clinton: One Day at a Time
Thursday, Mar. 06, 2008
TIME: Can you envision a point at which--if the race stays this close--Democratic Party elders would step in and say, "This is now hurting the party and whoever will be the nominee in the fall"?

CLINTON: No, I really can't. I think people have short memories. Primary contests used to last a lot longer. We all remember the great tragedy of Bobby Kennedy being assassinated in June in L.A.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1719900,00.htm

Clinton campaign on ropes

BY JOHN GUERRIERO
Published: May 08. 2008 6:00AM
Murray, who has supported Bill and Hillary Clinton since 1991, said these are tough times for people like him who are in the Clinton camp but want to unify the party.

"The sense is, absent some catastrophic event that would take place in this campaign, it's going to be very difficult to see a path to victory for Hillary given what happened" Tuesday, Murray said.
http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080508/NEWS02/805080437

Sun May 11, 2008
Analysis: Could Clinton land the VP nomination?

Several Clinton associates say there is still a ray of hope among some in her campaign: that a "catastrophic" revelation about Obama might make it possible for her to win the presidential nomination. But barring that, Hillary and Bill Clinton recognize that her candidacy is being abandoned and rejected by superdelegates whom she once expected to win over and that, even if she were to win the popular vote in combined primary states, she will almost certainly be denied the nomination.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/10/bernstein.clinton/index.html?section=cnn_latest

CBSNews.com Reports: N.Y. Senator Now Faces Nearly Impossible Odds To Capturing Democratic Nomination
May 7, 2008

Clinton's Path To Victory Slipping Away
There is one scenario which does work for Clinton and that’s a massive movement of superdelegates leaving Obama and supporting her. The party leaders could do that, but it would take some unforeseen development in the race between now and the convention for them to do so. Obama, in some way, would have to be rendered so unelectable that the party rejects him at the convention. That’s not much to hang a hat on but it’s starting to look like her best option.

And even that might not be a viable option, said Joe Trippi. “Even if the catastrophic thing existed or happened, if she were perceived to have caused it, I think it would end her campaign too,” Trippi said. I don’t think there’s any way now for her to gain the nomination. She’s at the point now where if she tries to make a case against Obama, it will actually speed up superdelegates joining his cause just to shut the campaign down.”

But Trippi notes that the Obama campaign and Democratic leaders are still likely to give Clinton the room she needs to go forward on her own terms, provided that she does so in a positive manner. “I think there’s lots of tolerance for her going on, running the table into the convention and having a presence there,” he said. “But if she actually tries to compete in the trenches for the nomination in a way that looks like it’s damaging the nominee … I don’t think there will be any tolerance for that at all.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/07/politics/main4078586.shtml

[dchill]

46. "The only racism coming out in this election comes from ..."

the media and the ego-serving pundits."

Or maybe it's Hillary Rodham Clinton:

"Sen. Obama's support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me."

Whether or not she is racist is debatable, but the fact that she is using racism is not. To me, there is no difference.

[quantass]

11. My god, if heaven forbid an attempt is made,everyone will blame Hillary for inspiring it!

:scared:

[Yael]

18. Well, she blew the dog whistle

All it takes now is for some idiot to think she was talking directly to him/her and that they will get to marry Jodie Foster once it is done.

[SoFlaJet]

25. Paging Fromme

Squeaky Fromme...

[AuntPatsy]

22. I think he is being very unfair but it is no surpise that fairness is not part

of todays' journalists, they in my opinion have become no better than that which they pretend to report on.

[stillcool]

37. I think you're right..they are being unfair...

they should have reported this a long time ago. After all it is the Clinton's strategy for staying in the race...the sky will open, the light will come down, a lightening bolt will strike Senator Obama, and the celestial choirs will be singing my name.

Interview with Clinton: One Day at a Time
Thursday, Mar. 06, 2008
TIME: Can you envision a point at which--if the race stays this close--Democratic Party elders would step in and say, "This is now hurting the party and whoever will be the nominee in the fall"?

CLINTON: No, I really can't. I think people have short memories. Primary contests used to last a lot longer. We all remember the great tragedy of Bobby Kennedy being assassinated in June in L.A.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1719900,00.htm

Clinton campaign on ropes

BY JOHN GUERRIERO
Published: May 08. 2008 6:00AM
Murray, who has supported Bill and Hillary Clinton since 1991, said these are tough times for people like him who are in the Clinton camp but want to unify the party.

"The sense is, absent some catastrophic event that would take place in this campaign, it's going to be very difficult to see a path to victory for Hillary given what happened" Tuesday, Murray said.
http://www.goerie.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080508/NEWS02/805080437

Sun May 11, 2008
Analysis: Could Clinton land the VP nomination?

Several Clinton associates say there is still a ray of hope among some in her campaign: that a "catastrophic" revelation about Obama might make it possible for her to win the presidential nomination. But barring that, Hillary and Bill Clinton recognize that her candidacy is being abandoned and rejected by superdelegates whom she once expected to win over and that, even if she were to win the popular vote in combined primary states, she will almost certainly be denied the nomination.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/10/bernstein.clinton/index.html?section=cnn_latest

CBSNews.com Reports: N.Y. Senator Now Faces Nearly Impossible Odds To Capturing Democratic Nomination
May 7, 2008

Clinton's Path To Victory Slipping Away
There is one scenario which does work for Clinton and that’s a massive movement of superdelegates leaving Obama and supporting her. The party leaders could do that, but it would take some unforeseen development in the race between now and the convention for them to do so. Obama, in some way, would have to be rendered so unelectable that the party rejects him at the convention. That’s not much to hang a hat on but it’s starting to look like her best option.

And even that might not be a viable option, said Joe Trippi. “Even if the catastrophic thing existed or happened, if she were perceived to have caused it, I think it would end her campaign too,” Trippi said. I don’t think there’s any way now for her to gain the nomination. She’s at the point now where if she tries to make a case against Obama, it will actually speed up superdelegates joining his cause just to shut the campaign down.”

But Trippi notes that the Obama campaign and Democratic leaders are still likely to give Clinton the room she needs to go forward on her own terms, provided that she does so in a positive manner. “I think there’s lots of tolerance for her going on, running the table into the convention and having a presence there,” he said. “But if she actually tries to compete in the trenches for the nomination in a way that looks like it’s damaging the nominee … I don’t think there will be any tolerance for that at all.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/07/politics/main4078586.shtml

[AuntPatsy]

38. Prove to me that not all campaigns seem to love to use the fear card in some

form or another.....

[stillcool]

39. the fear card?

justifying the idea that one can win..if something "catastrophic" befalls the other candidate? Whatever. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have no problem with that strategy, and are themselves hoping for the lightning bolt. I just worry about the people creating the lightning bolt. But that's me.

[AuntPatsy]

42. The fear card does not only represent death, it also represents health

care, loss of income, loss of job opportunity, loss of security, there are many ways one can ensure one ensures another remains afraid.

[stillcool]

51. you have totally lost me..

Hillary is not using a 'fear' card.....it's Hillary's 'hope' card.

[SoFlaJet]

24. Even Tony Blankley

hit the nail on the head when he said her apology was "gibberish"

[senseandsensibility]

26. Yes Tony actually looked shaken

And he is usually part of the push Hillary RW crowd.

[SoFlaJet]

30. I watched that video a few times yesterday-the "apology" sns

once with the sound on, the rest muted and I kept watching her eyes darting back and forth and up and down like a crazy person-she is mentally unfit to be POTUS and HER medical records should be reviewed not McCain's

[Swamp Rat]

29. He is one of the best political commentators.

I agree with him 100%, as I was saying the same thing before he even made his opinion known.

[rocktivity]

33. It wasn't a "gaffe"--it was an ill-concieved but very intentional talking point

which Hillary has used three other times--once WITH the word "assassination."

She said, in an off-camera interview with Time on March 6, "Primary contests used to last a lot longer. We all remember the great tragedy of Bobby Kennedy being assassinated in June in L.A. My husband didn't wrap up the nomination in 1992 until June, also in California. Having a primary contest go through June is nothing particularly unusual..." But somebody obviously warned her of the danger of that rhetoric.

After the Indiana primary, on May 7, she told supporters at a Washington hotel: "...(I)f you look at successful presidential campaigns, my husband did not get the nomination until June of 1992. I remember tragically when Senator Kennedy won California near the end of that process." And at Shepherdstown, West Virginia, on the same day, she referenced it again: "You know, I remember very well what happened in the California primary in 1968 as, you know, Senator Kennedy won that primary."

On March 6th she had said "assassinated." By May 7 she had avoided it. Today...she went back to an awful well...
link

:headbang:
rocknation

[senseandsensibility]

34. I agree

That's why I put gaffe in quotation marks.

[Marnieworld]

40. He said it was "appalling and reprehensible"

I watched him say it as he was marvelling about anyone saying anything else. It's not that complicated. He was great.

[SoFlaJet]

41. Eugene Robinson supposedly wrote an Op-Ed in today's Post

I tried to access it but couldn't-does anybody have an account there. I read an excerpt that said something like "why should we NOT take what a pol says as what they mean?" Something to that effect. Good thread sense 'n

[EFerrari]

48. He had a piece yesterday, I didn't see one today. n/t

[SoFlaJet]

49. then it must have been a comment

only sfexpat2000

[Rosa Luxemburg]

43. The assassination comment was insensitive, espaecially after her MLK comments

Hillary needs to be filtered before she speaks

[Lady-Damai]

44. Why only African Americans?

Last time I checked African Americans were not the only folks being outraged by Hillary's latest *incident*.

[SoFlaJet]

45. poor working class (somewhat) hard working white guy here

pissed off too

[EFerrari]

47. The poster didn't say "only" but was thinking about that block. n/t

[senseandsensibility]

54. No of course not

but they are an important voting block that ANY Dem candidate will absolutely need to win in the Fall. What we definitely DON'T need is a candidate who continues to alienate this important part of the base. I see nothing wrong with pointing that out.

[hokies4ever]

50. I interpreted Robinson's comments differently

I think he tried to focus on the fact that her apology wasn't really an apology, and rightfully so. It's never the crime that does you in, but always the cover-up. In this case, the comment itself was bad, but the 'apology' made it so much worse. The black female analyst they had on MSNBC yesterday evening (don't know her name) really expressed the sentiment about the damage this gaffe will do to Hillary's relationship to the black community. She reminded people of Rep. Clyburn's statement that Hillary's bridge to the black community was very shaky at best. She said that this gaffe might dig her grave w.r.t. her relationship to the black community.

As a black man in my late 20's, I think that Hillary is on the brink of no return, but hasn't crossed it yet. Before this gaffe the damage was completely repairable without a doubt. I think that blacks want to forgive Hillary. The only problem is that she isn't apologizing to the black community. We know that she doesn't really believe all of this racial nonsense her campaign has been about. She just REALLY wants to be President, that's all. Once she comes to accept her defeat, she will not act this way anymore.

[senseandsensibility]

55. Thanks for addressing my concern about how this will play with

the African American community. I am not African American, but I am from the progressive wing of the party, and I'm seeing way to much condoning of racism on this board lately. If Hillary doesn't actually come out and say "I hate black people", her supporters scream that she is not in any way racist. But she has played the race card and so has Bill.