Why all the fake indignation and outrage from the Obama crowd?

[DemVet]

"fake indignation and outrage"...that's what it is.

Hillary simply brought up a valid point and people are whining like she was actually planning "something." You people don't actually believe that, do you?

It seems Obama supporters just need something more to bitch about. If this is the way they act, I don't know if I want an Obama Administration.

Luckily, I think his campaign and advisors are a little more level-headed than some of his supporters are.

[ShortnFiery]

1. Why all the KKKarl Rovian *projection* from the HRC crowd?

:eyes:

[DemVet]

4. How original. Which one of your cohorts did you steal that from?

[dorkulon]

2. Valid point: Obama might get killed?

Well then, let's hear her say it directly, if it's so valid.

[DemVet]

5. She simply said...

...things have changed the outcome of the primary race in June in previous election years.

[dorkulon]

10. But the example about Bill winning CA is irrelevant, since there is no

upcoming primary that could change the race. The only applicable example is the Kennedy assassination. The implication is clear: I'm staying in in case someone whacks Obama. I'm sorry, but that's macabre at best.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. Like for example a candidate could get assassinated.

That was the only example she cited of an event that could change an outcome.

"Clinton, who has made similar statements previously, said she was simply illustrating that other nomination contests have dragged into June. Editors of the Sioux Falls, S.D., Argus Leader had asked why she remained in the race for the Democratic nomination.

"My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right?" Clinton told the newspaper. "We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California."

Bill Clinton's nomination was a foregone conclusion by March 1992, although he didn't officially clinch it until later."
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-clinton24-2008may24,0,3156156.story

Senator Clinton responds to the question 'why are you still in the race' with 'assassinations happen' and you are here, thick as a brick, trying to defend her latest misspokification.

[Starwars Hillary]

32. She never said "assassinations happen" or even "anything can happen", she was talking about JUNE

Yet you are here, thick as a brick, promoting a complete lie.

[Warren Stupidity]

41. We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California

We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California
We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California
We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California
We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California
We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California

[JTFrog]

49. Dance little puppet, _____dance!

[JoFerret]

69. Actually

frogs are good at dancing.
So I am told.
When the music drums the thinking from their brains.

[JTFrog]

70. We're also very good prophets. Poor little puppet. n/t

[anigbrowl]

61. June is a week away. Do I have to draw a picture?

[TahitiNut]

73. Are you sure she wasn't talking about California?

:eyes:

What a fucking ridiculous dodge.

[JerseygirlCT]

48. But she didn't.

She COULD have simply said that. There was no need to mention assasination. But she chose to go there. And it's not the first time she's done that.

Had she simply referenced other campaigns that went late into the year, we would have taken it as another (incorrect) attempt by the Clinton campaign to paint their losing efforts in the best light. Yawn, what else. No story there.

But she chose, again, to reference JFK's assasination. In speaking about her continuing campaign against a man who has already been threatened. At best it was really stupid and thoughtless. At worst...

Over the years, I've noticed (sometimes with respect) that there's rarely anything "simple" about the Clintons. There wasn't anything simple about this, either. Unless it was simply stupid.

[dchill]

64. If THAT was what she said, then where did everyone...

get this false information about the assassination of Bobby Kennedy?

[boobooday]

3. Hillary supporters are using a lot of "you people" kind of constructions

An observation.

[DemVet]

8. Good Observation.

I think a lot, though not all, Obama supporters can be called "you people."

[Seabiscuit]

82. I don't call them "you people". I call them Obamanoids.

[NashVegas]

92. I'm Often Tempted To Write "Who The Hell Are You People" Threads

As a longtime DUer, I know that the bulk of the most obnoxious, tantrum-throwing, forum-bullying here are people who joined in 2004 and mostly lurked until this election cycle, and newbies who joined when or after the campaigns began.

It's kind of funny / sad. If you do an advanced search, you can see that there was a time when one could have a reasoned conversation about candidates' weaknesses and strengths - Obama included - without being insulted.

Who the hell are these people?

[carolinayellowdog]

95. By those who seek to stereotype and scapegoat

"You people" works well for them

[Ian David]

6. self-delete

[DemVet]

9. Come on...out with it.

[Ian David]

57. I had made an ill-advised recreational suggestion for you. n/t

[Name removed]

7. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Perry Logan]

11. It's a "tempest without a teapot"--an Obamite specialty.

[dcindian]

13. Ya absolutely nothing Hillary does deserves ridicule

Clinton enjoys strong support among white voters, in marked contrast to Democratic front runner Obama.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/138456

She is reaping what she sows. Her attitude of shock and awe politics is a festering sore of hate within the Democrat party. A thing which people like you may enjoy but many of the rest of us find distaste in her offering.

[Inuca]

19. Only it seems that

the teapot will FINALLY explode.

[shayes51]

20. amen

[jefferson_dem]

12. You better get on the horn and fast...

Bunches and bunches of "Obama supporters" out there expressing such "fake indignation and outrage" who are in need admonishing...

http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2006-40,GGLJ:en&q=hillary%20assassination&um=1&sa=N&tab=wn

[DemVet]

34. These are all the same ones cheerleading the "yes we can" cheer

[Bluerthanblue]

59. more than a little bigotry in your statements-

People are individuals-

When you lump them together and summarily dismiss them en masse- you are a bigot.


good luck to you-

peace~

[dchill]

66. Wow! I clicked your link, and apparently this blasphemous...

lie about Hillary having mentioned RFK's assassination is spreading like WILDFIRE, even on otherwise and formerly credible news sources. I'm just absolutely speechless! How did Obama manage to get the entire internets blazing with such a HUGE LIE? That is so racist and sexist!

Everybody knows Hillary is too classy and intelligent to ever actually say anything remotely like, "My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right? We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California. You know I just, I don’t understand it.”

To make it even more ridiculous, it would have had to have been TWO lies - Bill Clinton had the 1992 nomination wrapped up in March. If Barry had just stuck with ONE lie, it might actually have worked. But everyone with HALF A BRAIN will wake up now and realize that Hillary doesn't NEED to lie - she's got the popular vote all but wrapped up! That will give her the nomination.

Sorry I got so worked up, but that man just DRIVES ME CRAZY!

[glowing]

14. No, its not fake.. I was speaking with my sis n law.. the most un-political

person in the world, and I told her what was said.. read it verbatim from Hillary's mouth, thru my lips, to my sis n laws ears, and she was very upset by the comments. So, this is not fake outrage. Its something you shouldn't suggest when we already know the threat to any of our Presidents who serve, whether man or woman, black or white or whatever color, is an actual threat that we don't take lightly... Its why we have the secret service protecting the President and their family.

[Starwars Hillary]

16. She didn't suggest the assassination, history did

She was suggesting going to June, while providing examples. One of them happened to include an infamous and tragic historical marker which she referenced as a matter of fact to evoke the collective memory of the month of JUNE (which she stressed over and over again), not the assassination itself. The "outrage" is getting smaller and smaller, and more minute by the second. Soon we will be burning textbooks for threatening the life of Obama.

[MadHound]

22. Stupid, thoughtless, classless, brainless example to choose

But hey, that's Hillary, opening mouth and spewing bullshit and stupidity.:shrug:

[Starwars Hillary]

29. Obama said Israel was like a sore, a wound, infecting US foreign policy

But hey, that's Obama, opening mouth and spewing bullshit and stupidity. What a stupid, thoughtless, clasless, brainless choice of words.

[Warren Stupidity]

37. You are very misinformed by the liars around you.

That is not what Obama said.

"JG: Do you think that Israel is a drag on America’s reputation overseas?

BO: No, no, no. But what I think is that this constant wound, that this constant sore, does infect all of our foreign policy. The lack of a resolution to this problem provides an excuse for anti-American militant jihadists to engage in inexcusable actions, and so we have a national-security interest in solving this, and I also believe that Israel has a security interest in solving this because I believe that the status quo is unsustainable. I am absolutely convinced of that, and some of the tensions that might arise between me and some of the more hawkish elements in the Jewish community in the United States might stem from the fact that I’m not going to blindly adhere to whatever the most hawkish position is just because that’s the safest ground politically."
http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/05/obama_on_zionism_and_hamas.php

"this" and "this problem" are not Israel, but the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, as can clearly be seen in the quote and in the entire interview, where for example Obama also says:

"JG: Do you think that justice is still on Israel’s side?

BO: I think that the idea of a secure Jewish state is a fundamentally just idea, and a necessary idea, given not only world history but the active existence of anti-Semitism, the potential vulnerability that the Jewish people could still experience. I know that that there are those who would argue that in some ways America has become a safe refuge for the Jewish people, but if you’ve gone through the Holocaust, then that does not offer the same sense of confidence and security as the idea that the Jewish people can take care of themselves no matter what happens. That makes it a fundamentally just idea.

That does not mean that I would agree with every action of the state of Israel, because it’s a government and it has politicians, and as a politician myself I am deeply mindful that we are imperfect creatures and don’t always act with justice uppermost on our minds. But the fundamental premise of Israel and the need to preserve a Jewish state that is secure is, I think, a just idea and one that should be supported here in the United States and around the world."
http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/05/obama_on_zionism_and_hamas.php

You might want to read the interview, in its original format rather than in your rightwing talking point digest format. That is if you are interested in what our party's presumptive nominee actually thinks about Israel and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

[NorthCarolina]

39. If Obama did say that then he's even brighter than I thought

because I agree with that sentiment.

[JoFerret]

68. Not really

not to those for whom those 'assassination' years are seared on the brain.

[Adelante]

26. Welcome to DU, Starwars Hillary

:hi:

[JTFrog]

51. Surely you mean "welcome back".

[Adelante]

52. Heh

:D

[glowing]

56. I suppose if you don't understand, I won't get you to understand it ever.

AND the usage of June as a mile marker or California doesn't work in this year's primary because all will be done by June and California has already had there's.

[FlaGranny]

15. I doubt there is an Obama

supporter anywhere who has not had a deep down fear that someone was going to try to assassinate him, especially those of us old enough to remember the last 3 and the other attempted ones. It's one of those things you avoid saying at all costs because you don't want to plant any ideas into the head of unstable crazy people. That's why it's so upsetting. I watched 3 assassinations and I don't want to see another or even THINK ABOUT ONE. You see, in the context of such a high profile election, at best, it was a very, very stupid thing to say and very upsetting in the context of her repeatedly claiming "anything can happen." It is obvious she must have it on her mind.

[Starwars Hillary]

17. She never tied "anything can happen" to "assassination", she was referring to scandals

and that's how everybody took it every step of the way. Not one time did you, or I, or anybody think she was talking about an assassination. Anything can happen means Rev Wright or Rezko like revelations. And you know it.

[Inuca]

23. RFK's assasinaton was a scandal? n/t

[Starwars Hillary]

36. "Anything can happen" refers to scandals, "June" refers to June

She DID NOT say "anything can happen" in reference to RFK yesterday, thus, if you connect the 2, which many Obama supporters are facetiously doing, you are flat out lying, or being incredibly obtuse.

[Warren Stupidity]

40. Assassination refers to assassination

live long and prosper!

oops, wrong space opera.

[FlaGranny]

42. I haven't

heard her yet mentioning "scandals." She does mention RFK frequently. In any case, she needs to stop wishing for scandals too. Obviously, after all this time, if there were any more scandals, they would have been uncovered. No doubt millions have been spent trying. Hillary could concede today. Obama could change his mind and drop out of the race tomorrow. If he did drop out for personal reasons or a scandal, who do you think would be the nominee? Hillary Clinton? Of course. Thus her "anything could happen" scenario does not hold up. Wishing for scandals is pathetic.

[GoesTo11]

53. It depends what the meaning of "is" is.

Very careful parsing for something that she should never have said. She's being completely irresponsible.

Thank God she will never be answering a phone at 3AM.

[Arkansas Granny]

24. Considering that the level of self professed hatred I have seen for Senator

Clinton on this board and elsewhere appears to be much greater than any statements I have seen expressed toward Senator Obama, I would also be fearful of an attempt to do her harm.

What she said may have been badly worded, but the fact remains that Senator Kennedy was still actively campaigning for the Democratic nomination in the month of June and using that to justify her own campaign running into the month of June. Her reference to his assassination was in no way intended to suggest any correlation to Senator Obama.

[Warren Stupidity]

18. A valid point?

Oh please do explain precisely what that valid point was.

[MonkeyFunk]

25. That in 68

the race for the nomination went into June.

[george_maniakes]

30. And someone was assassinated. and a large amount of people currently fear for obama's safety.

The fact she is either so stupid or uncaring to recognize that is the answer.

[Warren Stupidity]

31. That is not what she said.

Clinton quickly expressed regret for the unprompted reference -- interpreted by many in Obama's camp as a suggestion that she thinks Obama's life might be in danger.

Clinton, who has made similar statements previously, said she was simply illustrating that other nomination contests have dragged into June. Editors of the Sioux Falls, S.D., Argus Leader had asked why she remained in the race for the Democratic nomination.

"My husband did not wrap up the nomination in 1992 until he won the California primary somewhere in the middle of June, right?" Clinton told the newspaper. "We all remember Bobby Kennedy was assassinated in June in California."

Bill Clinton's nomination was a foregone conclusion by March 1992, although he didn't officially clinch it until later.
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-clinton24-2008may24,0,3156156.story

What exactly was her point about RFK's assassination in the context of the question asked?

[ButterflyBlood]

79. Yeah that's only 40 years ago

The schedule has changed a little since then. Does California vote in June?

[DemVet]

35. That anythink could happen to derail an Obama candidacy...

another Rezko

another Wright

etc.

[Warren Stupidity]

38. another assassination

thanks for making the case against her.

[Blondbostonian]

44. Good God

If Obama said this, I would be raking him over the coals. Can you ever just see past your campaign's talking points?

She make an idiotic error and you're here defending it.

Thank goodness she's toast.

[SwampG8r]

83. this rezko?this wright?

these guys?

[Hepburn]

27. A valid point?

To talk about staying in a race one cannot win cuz one might get the nomination when the front runner is assassinated ~~ as was RFK in 1968 ~~ is NOT a valid point.

It a sick and evil statement that evidences the contenance of a very, very bad person.

JMHO

[nemo137]

28. Friend, I'm not one of those who thinks that she's planning "something"

But, I do think that what she said (and has said more than once, apparently), was ghoulish. For some DU'ers old enough to remember '68, it opened up old wounds. For us young "Obamites," who remember seeing our parents and grandparents react across 30 or 40 years to the Kennedy assassinations, it was shocking that anyone would seek to raise the specter as a last, desperate, implicit justification for why she should be president.

Especially since she seems to be looking for the VP spot, that kind of comment is inappropriate and unwelcome. Ghoulish, even.

It's also the fact that it doesn't work as a "valid point" as she wants it to. The primary process was much different (and much shorter) in '68 - RFK didn't enter the race until after what's now "super tuesday," so she looks extra ghoulish and ill-informed.

[LucyParsons]

33. Another example of how HRC's supporters are like *'s

Astounding.

[cboy4]

43. Isn't that nice. LucyParsons is comparing Hillary supporters

to Republicans.

As despicable as so many Obama fans are, I've never broad brushed them the way you have HRC's.

[LucyParsons]

47. Well, putting aside the fact that Hillary is a DLCer, so, to my mind, no better than a Republican...

I didn't mean to imply that you have Republican policy views (though maybe you do, if you're supporting corporatist Hillary Clinton), but that those of you who are still hardcore Hillary apologists seem to have some weird, inexplicably blind devotion to her, an inability to see her faults, and a penchant for crying victim despite the fact that your candidate was set up by the elites for MONTHS before a vote was ever cast as the inevitable and entitled nominee. Some of the Obama supporters are lemmings, too - definitely - but not all of them. I don't hoenstly see how anyone can support HRC, especially after how she's waged her campaign. It's a very disappointing time for me as a liberal and as a feminist.

[smiley_glad_hands]

74. You have used the same tactics, why not? eom

[ecdab]

45. Her message about RFK was stupid and morbid and essentially amounted

to her saying she should stay in the race in case something terrible happened to Obama. That's exceptionally morbid. Her point about the '92 race is just an outright distortion. People are tired of her BS, they are tired of her sham reasons for staying in the race. At this point - the only reasons she has are self serving. That's OK, she has a right to be self serving and most politicians are just that - but she has taken the BS beyond a point where most would dare to thread, and crossed quite a few lines in doing so. I don't think history will judge her very kindly.

[JerseygirlCT]

46. There's nothing fake about it

Clinton said something that - at best - was incredibly stupid and lacking taste. At worst... well, I don't even want to go there.

Problem is that it's also not the first time she's tried this meme.

As I said, at best it was really stupid and hurtful. Would have been nice to see that recognized by the candidate. Instead she offered a milktoast - well if anyone actually took offense, I'm sorry.. sort of apology. Weak. Lacking character.

Not what I want in the WH.

[AZSlacker]

50. Thats a real nice candidate you got there... shame if something were to happen to him...

[stevietheman]

54. Um, did you actually listen to or read her comments?

I would think any human being would be outright disgusted.

[Medusa]

55. I assure you my indignation and outrage is genuine.

I have tried to give her the benefit of the doubt too many times before (Bosnia snipers anyone?) but this time she stepped over a line you do not cross. And you know what makes me even angrier and indignant? That HRC supporters have the audacity to say our outrage isn't genuine. You and Clinton both need to read the tea leaves and crawl back into whatever sub-terrain hole it was you slithered out of.

[Bluerthanblue]

58. who are you to judge anothers feelings?

You can only speak to your own response to her comments-

Anything more and you are doing nothing but making an ass out of yourself.


peace~

[mamalone]

60. My feelings are not fake...

You're not helping things in general, or your candidate in particular, to minimize the upset many of us feel.

[last1standing]

62. Yeah, I hate fake indignation.

You remember this at all?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5510936

DemVet (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr-15-08 07:21 AM
Original message
Obama wasn't just calling small-town people gun or religious nuts...he said they were racists.

“So it’s not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations,” - Barack Obama


This is what a certain segment of this board just doesn't understand. He basically said that when the going gets rough, small town people read their Bibles (which they supposedly never read when the going is good), hump their guns (afterall, they don't have to hunt when the economy is good) and start turning on those that don't look like them (yeah, bad times breeds racism :sarcasm: ).

Why did he say this? He said he could have said it better...yeah, no shit.

Can't you understand why people would be offended by this?

Better cash those checks from the Hillary campaign as quick as possible. I hear a few people sent in some donations so they might even clear.

[cliffordu]

71. Good catch!!

[phrigndumass]

80. DemVet's hypocrisy is clear ...

DemVet re: Bittergate: "Can't you understand why people would be offended by this?"

Must be his turn tonight to shill for the Dirty Dozen.

[HuffleClaw]

63. because they don't have anything of substance to argue about

and just wait until the media mounts a real attack on him. the honeymoon will be OVER.

[kevinmc]

65. Maybe Hillary will stroke out soon and her campaign will end ..... it's possible.

I mean it could happen ... we would be foolish if we didn't considerate it. :sarcasm:

[cliffordu]

72. Or maybe Bill gets caught with a pretty campaign worker....

More likely.....

[McCamy Taylor]

67. They want to save McCain the embarassment of public focus on his medical records?

[smiley_glad_hands]

75. Epic fail. eom

[Catherina]

76. Obama said he'd "take her at her word on that". That's where I stand too. Her "word"

Knowing what Hillary's word is worth, that's a gracious way of not saying much and reminding the voters how dangerous her lack of judgement is especially if she mumbles something like "obliterate them" when that phone rings at 3am.

HRC, now known as the "just-in-case-he-gets-assassinated" candidate, just dug herself into a hole so deep, it's gonna take more than a few crates of shoes and oranges to dig her out of it.

Quit kidding yourself that the indignation is fake.

[smiley_glad_hands]

77. We learned it from you and Hill. eom

[slinkerwink]

78. what we're feeling isn't fake. You don't get to tell me that my anger and hurt is fake.

[otohara]

81. It Obviously Didn't Affect You

like it did me - what can I say? I won't apologize for being upset by her insensitive and disingenuous remarks. Historical - think again about the inconsistencies in her statement.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lucinda]

85. I assume it's because they are worried about her possibly ending up the nominee

So anything that might damage her is "good" regardless of its accuracy...

[bridgit]

86. It would seem for many of them; their indignant, outrageous behaviors are not fake...

They are experienced as genuine. Like Kabuki, Birdcage Theater Melodrama, or incidence involving road rage & tire irons. Their applications are quite often every bit as misapplied, however, as the dribble that falls out of hate radio's mouth, you know; hate radio thinks their outrage to be genuine too.

Recent threads questioning how others are able to even consider Obama supporters 'outrage' as having a fake quality is referable to the story: The Little Boy Who Cried Wolf

Every night on the town does not involve Kabuki. Nor, Birdcage Theater Melodrama. Every trip to the grocery store does not involve road rage & tire irons unless, it would appear, you're driving through Obama Town. Then all bets are off.

You're a this, you're a that ad nauseum infinati made to suffer the slights of endless outrage & indignation slaps to your cyber-face, threats upon your capacity, the greater discounting of your life experiences, etc, for having the audacity to hope for something other than what they alone claim to have the audacity to hope for or until...a *true* outrage develops.

Then is when it is noticed. Their indignation has become diluted. Their outrage seen less as fitting any peg holes as it has been unceremoniously stuffed in there, but hey...

They are genuine about stuffing square pegs into round holes too :thumbsup:

[LaurenG]

87. You have it wrong

I'm not sure you're saying this to start a flame war or just to shake things up a bit.

This is how I see it. For my part, I do not like Senator Clinton anymore. I wasn't faking anything, in fact if you want the truth I'm a lousy poker player and I can't lie without looking so guilty that everyone knows it.

It wasn't fake outrage it was unbelief and utter dismay. Some of us are so disappointed over how she has run her campaign that - that was the last straw. I cried because it was a horrendous thing to allude to, tired or not. Had Senator Obama said something like that it would have been over for him and I would have had to rethink him as a candidate. Everyone makes mistakes; I know from personal experience, but not so often that it becomes obvious what people are really made of.

George Bush campaigned along the same lines as Hillary Clinton, he screwed McCain so hard that I started to hate bush. I give people plenty of room to make mistakes and as long as someone isn't deliberately mean, I'll let them off the hook. She went too far and yes you are right Senator Obama could have used the same tactics she did and forced her out of the race. (Remember in Ohio, the "fake" outrage Clinton spewed over NAFTA?) She was even lying and she pulled a horribly hypocritical stunt in order to put him out of business. I know what you all said though, it's just politics. So maybe you you and Senator Clinton should start to see just how lucky she is that he hasn't exploited her errors the way she has exploited him.

Anyway, no it isn't fake outrage, for my part, it's as real as it gets.

[VotesForWomen]

88. that's what they do. nt

[dcindian]

89. Why do you want the black man assassinated?

Really WTF is wrong with you Hillary supporters and your fake care of the minority might as well throw on some sheets and do a little chanting.

[Political Heretic]

90. The comment was many things, but "valid" and "point" are not among them.

Even if you ignore the stupefying bad choice of words, comparing the 1968 race to this one is like apples to tractors. The race didn't even START until many months after this one among other things.

[TeamsterDem]

91. So you're admitting, then

that you'd vote against Obama because of the way some of his supporters act? Wow. The Founding Fathers would be proud!

[bridgit]

96. Isn't part of the point there that The Founders would have people voting for the candidates...

of their choice? That to chastise people racially, or impugn their motives, IQ, level of education, etc, for decisions one way or the other is seen as making The Founders wince too?

Since when did the left become more the the right? Do you know?

[Th1onein]

93. Nothing fake here.

I am absolutely and genuinely outraged at Hillary Clinton. It's a damned shame when someone has to sink that low.

[Vinca]

94. I don't think any Obama supporters think she was "planning something," but

it's unsettling - to say the least - when a candidate indicates they're hanging on just in case the other guy gets taken out. That's what it boils down to. What kind of person has a horrible scenario such as that mulling through their brain?