How quickly people forget the "Dean Scream" phenomenom...(HRC comment)

[HardWorkingDem]

I want HRC out of the race as much as anyone else does, but people should take a collective breath, think for themselves and quit allowing the talking heads to tell them what they think HRC's Kennedy/June primary/assassination comment meant.

Yes, it was a colossal mistake of the highest order, but I think most Democrats know what point she was trying to make and it was NOT that anything can happen, even a political assassination.

People need to examine the entire context of her interview - she was clearly speaking of people who feel if this race goes on any longer, then irreparable damage will be done to the Democratic Party and tried to emphasize this by pointing out past primary races that went into June and beyond.

Her words were terrible. And I watched Olberman and his Special Comment - in fact, the last part of it clearly defines WHY she should get out of the race.

Like many others, I am angry, disgusted and tired of HRC, but I do not think her idiotic comment garnishes the full fledged ire that is being directed at her.

[ClassWarrior]

1. Are you joking?? I hear the "Dean Scream" played back at least once a week to this day.

And that's by media people who like the guy. He himself joked about it throughout his recent "Daily Show" appearance. That's one he'll never live down. Fortunately he's been skilled enough to rise above it. Can Hilly rise above invoking political murder?

NGU.

[Cosmocat]

28. They are two COMPLETELY different things ...

The scream was a right wing generated slander that the MSM willingly drove ... Howard Dean was running a high minded and positive campaign, and was handling himself well ... And, there was NOTHING wrong with this genuine show of emotion ... NOTHING ...

Hill has been unhinged and her and her campaign have been spouting intellectually bankrupt nonsense for months now, and what she said WAS ghoulish - her words basically were that she was staying in in case someone killed him ...

The MSM has been carrying water for Hill for a LONG time, the overall outrage her might be disproportionate to her statement, but in comparison to all the nonsense she and hers have said the last couple months that they have gotten free passes for, it is only a drop in the bucket of the blowback she SHOULD be getting ...

[beezlebum]

2. no. this is the second time i've seen this comparison and it is

NOT the same.

once again:
"bitter-gate" is akin to the dean scream.
"pastor-gate" is akin to the dean scream.
"flag-pin gate" is akin to the dean scream.

i'll even go as far as to say- and refrain from using the label 'valor theft'- that "sniper-gate" is akin to the dean scream.

but waxing assassination is NOT akin to the dean scream.

i'm done with passes. i admit i have been eager to see the day obama is declared the nominee, but i have not ardently supported calls for her to get out, though i have agreed she should here and there. now, after her comments all week, and most of all, after this, no. not anymore. she needs to get THE FUCK out.

[AZBlue]

3. But her premise was a lie and exposes what she said for what it really was.

First of all, her husband's nomination was settled in March, not June.

Secondly , if anything were to happen to make the presumptive nominee unelectable, not only do we have the SD's for that possibility but we also have the ability to simply replace a nominee with another. That's why conventions don't happen until the end of the summer. Any candidate that suspended their campaign could go back into the race at a later time if needed.

Her premise is (once again) completely false.

[Muttocracy]

7. good post

:thumbsup:

[HardWorkingDem]

8. um....a basic Wikipedia search revealed this...

Regarding Clinton and Jerry Brown in 1992...

(Jerry Brown) On April 7, he lost narrowly to Bill Clinton in Wisconsin (37-34), and dramatically in New York (41-26).

Although Brown continued to campaign in a number of states, he won no further primaries. Despite this, he still had a sizable number of delegates, and a big win in his home state of California would deprive Clinton of sufficient support to win the nomination, which Brown apparently thought would revert to him by default. After nearly a month of intense campaigning and multiple debates between the two candidates, Clinton managed to defeat Brown in this final primary by a margin of 48% to 41%




She did not state it was "settled" in June, but that it went to June. Which it did.

[msallied]

14. The California primary was held LATE. Clinton had his nomination wrapped up before June.

[SoFlaJet]

26. by March 17th 1992

it was his

[EFerrari]

4. No one is telling me what to think, thanks. And I don't care what she meant

any more.

That she could refer to that day in anyway with no respect at all is revolting no matter why she did it.

[Quixote1818]

5. I agree with everything you said. While I can't stand Hillary, I am not gong to convict her

on this. There is not nearly enough evidence to know what her motives were and as you stated, it seems like she just made a gaff. Randi Rhodes wouldn't even convict her on this today.

[OneAmerica]

6. Hilldog's going to Puerto Rico, to Montana, to S.Dakota...

And then she's going to D.C. to take back the Capitol!
BYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!

[ShortnFiery]

9. NO Comparison. HRC said something VILE and will be held responsible for it. eom

[HardWorkingDem]

13. Sigh....I'm not trying to compare the two, but illuminate the process...

The media is all over this one - including the internet.

Now, I could understand it if she had said, "I need to stay in this race because one never knows what will happen. Recall a VP was tossed out at the last minute for mental health issues and of course an assassination in 1968."

But she did not say that. She made references to political races going on until June.

Yes, it was a terrible statement but it is being taken completely out of context and she is being devoured by everyone.

[OnionPatch]

10. Thank you! Geez!

It's like people have no memory of when their own candidate said something stupid but unintentional. I think this overblown outrage makes our side (Obama supporters) look a little petty and somewhat hysterical. Maybe even a little desperate. Hillary is losing already. I wish people would get a grip.

[Joe the Revelator]

11. No more passes for Hillary

[msallied]

12. The "Dean Scream" is something we can joke about today. The man himself does it.

Can you imagine a few years down the road Hillary joking on Jay Leno or something about invoking RFK's assassination during her primary campaign? Wow.

[HardWorkingDem]

15. That's not the point - and only reinforces my original point...

I'm talking about the process behind these two. This is a media driven frenzy, just like the Dean Scream problem. The frenzy is creating such a cloud that the context of what she was claiming is being completely overlooked.

And just who the hell is suggesting she be able to "joke" about this later on? This is a serious mistake and nothing funny. What I don't like is that people are falling for the frenzied part of this.

[msallied]

16. Seems we're proving each other's points, though I'm not conceding your OP.

The fact is, the Dean Scream was much ado about nothing at all.

This, on the other hand, is much ado about SOMETHING. While I normally dismiss the media as being about as undisciplined as a hungry stray dog going after garbage scraps, occasionally their outrage and the attention they bring to something is justifiable. Sometimes when they hone in on something, they've got it right. You can't say that "the process" with this is not necessary in this case.

There IS no context to her remarks other than what was provided. As you said, it was a serious mistake. It was a mistake that she's made three times now, and on the previous two mistakes, she got a free pass on it.

This time, she got stopped dead in her tracks. It's actually about damn time the news cover something worthy. I hope they replay it ad nauseum. I hope that they never let people forget that this is what happens when you've decided to hit rock bottom. I want it to be out there because if anyone else thinks they can take down their own party in a petulant frenzy of sore loserdom, they might want to stop and think about it first. Because THIS is what happens when you take things too far. And perhaps we as Americans have enough integrity left to put our foots down and not take this kind of shit lying down.

[HardWorkingDem]

17. As I typed in an above thread...if she had said...

something along the lines of, "In presidential campaigns, as we have seen, anything can happen. In one a VP was dropped suddenly at the last minute because of mental illness and of course we had a primary end because of an assassination."

She did not say anything like this. She merely used terrible logic and words to make the point that primary campaigns have went on for some time and that when they did, the Democratic party did not cease to exist because of that.

I simply can't believe how many Democrats here at DU are refusing to recognize the context while making all sorts of judgments about the intent of her words while making them nefarious, when they clearly were not meant to be.


Heck, along with the Dean Scream media created frenzy we can add not only this, but also the Obama/Wright created frenzy.

[msallied]

21. She used terrible logic and words, yes. She has used it on numerous occasions.

In fact, she had no REASON to mention the assassination from the beginning if she was merely trying to illustrate that some primaries run into June. Bobby Kennedy's primary campaign ran into June because it began in March, so it's not even applicable, but she could have mentioned this without even having to say that he was assassinated. She could have mentioned SCORES of other campaigns that were fought down to the last delegate, but she didn't do that. She has opportunistically, three times now, invoked RFK's assassination in order to gain political leverage.

I will grant you that the Dean Scream was media-created frenzy. But this instance is not the case. This is people, regular people, being outraged by something someone said that was insensitive and hurtful in order to justify her remaining in a political race. It doesn't matter what they were "meant" to be. She didn't have to say what she said. There was absolutely NO reason for it, and she should (and is) being held accountable for it.

[thoughtcrime1984]

18. The Dean scream does not compare

not even remotely

[HardWorkingDem]

25. Sheesh.....read the OP again...

It's not about a COMPARISON to the two, but an observation of the media frenzy process that went on with both of them.



I find it kind of disappointing that Du'ers are starting to use the cut, paste and take out of context pattern that so many others feel the need to.


(And if you think I am a HRC supporter, do a quick search of my handle - I'm not. I'm just irritated when someone takes the words of another out of context - hm, just like Obama and Wright?)

[thoughtcrime1984]

27. I'm not the only one who took it that way

Anyhow, I didn't even watch TV to get my info, most of my info comes from the net. I am not a "cut and paster", and came to my own conclusion based on what she said. It was a disgustingly stupid thing to say, I do not believe she was advocating the murder of Obama, but one never knows just how seriously a zealot may take that statement. It was a very irresponsible thing to say, and did not need to be said to make the point she was trying to make. I think the media has gotten very lathered up about countless inane issues pertaining to Democrats, not only this cycle but the last as well. This particular incident DOES need to be seen by the electorate, as it shows the thought process of a Presidential candidate.

[HardWorkingDem]

29. Maybe you should watch her interview then...

The context is clear as is the title of this thread.

As someone else suggested in a different thread, it appears the reaction to this idiotic statement bears a direct relation to their reaction to it.

I mean come on, Obama supporters were doing a huge defense of Obama and Wright and even looking pretty foolish while ignoring their twenty year relationship.

Do I think Obama thinks anything like Wright? Hell no, but no one can tell me that Obama did not know of his extreme views and swallowed his explanations like sugar, but then when HRC makes this idiotic statement, her words are completely taking out of context.

If people want to be truthful and expect the same in return, then they better walk that talk.

[quaker bill]

31. It does in this sense

the media used it to end his campaign.

[opihimoimoi]

19. Funny, Hill was waiting for Obama to implode and what does she do...?

[Whisp]

20. if she had no history of stupidy like this, I could easily overlook.

but she is the mistress of it.

brilliant Hillary, some say?
I say she's bush stupid. out of touch.
and insane.

[newmajority]

22. The "Dean Scream" was about 90% fabrication of the DLC and the Whore Media

Yeah, sure Howard screamed - just loud enough to be heard above the crowd. But you isolate the feed from one condenser mic without the context of the background noise, and it becomes something entirely different. Hillary's Beast From Hell Screaming Voice (and you all know damn well what I'm talking about) is a thousand times worse than Dr. Dean's once in a lifetime "YEEEEAAAARRRRGGGHHH", but you never hear that horrible noise manipulated and remixed by the media, do you?

Because the corporatists LOVE Hillary and the DLC. And the feeling is mutual.

But this was different. She was deliberately playing on fear. Just like the Bush Crime Family does. It's getting harder to tell the difference between the two every day.

[pointsoflight]

23. That's fine, but it still makes her unfit for office.

Her statement, and then her subsequent failure to even acknowledge that she said something inappropriate, shows her poor judgment and shows that she is completely tone-deaf. Someone on the national stage absolutely MUST know better than to invoke an assassination when making a political argument and must understand how dangerous such a statement could be.

[RaleighNCDUer]

24. For me, it is simply further proof that she's shooting for a gig that

is beyond her talents.

I don't think she had any evil intent. I do think that she is so politically untalented that she didn't even recognize the problem with what she said until after she said it - and remains so focused on what she meant that she cannot wholeheartedly withdraw it. Tunnel vision.

We've just had 7 years of that kind of president. (With the small exception that * is ALSO evil.)

[goclark]

30. She has behavior patterns that are scary

She lies and doesn't care

She "misspeaks" negative comments about Democrats.

She speaks clearly and postively about McCain and compares some one in her own party as "not as good" as a Republican.


Who is the stranger with her ~ the Democrats seem to be.

Let's face it, she knows exactly what she is doing. :puke: