Obama should agree to seat delegates as is if Hillary promises not to make "popular vote" an issue

[jenmito]

Wouldn't that be a good deal? Making her promise she'd abide by the rules if given her way?

[Scurrilous]

1. Obama widens superdelegate lead

<snip>

"Barack Obama has added four more superdelegates today, wresting one from Hillary Clinton and inheriting two from John Edwards, who endorsed him last week.

Obama now has 310.5 superdelegates, according to his campaign's count, and is within 59 delegates of clinching the nomination (barring the magic number changing if the Democratic National Committee adds disputed delegates from Florida and Michigan). Clinton almost certainly needs to get the vast majority of undeclared superdelegates, and the Florida and Michigan delegates, to pull out the nomination.

The new superdelegates for Obama cited his inevitability as the nominee as much as praising his qualities.

Congressman Dennis Cardoza of California, who had supported Clinton, who won his state's primary, said in a statement, “While I continue to greatly respect and admire Senator Clinton and feel she has made history with her campaign, I believe that Senator Obama will inevitably be our party’s nominee for President. He has proven himself to be a thoughtful, knowledgeable, and inspirational leader and will take America in a new direction, which we desperately need."

Obama's campaign also announced support from another California congressman, Jim Costa.

State Senator Peter Burling of Cornish and Deborah Nelson of Hanover, two former Edwards superdelegates from New Hampshire, plan to announce their switch at a news conference this morning, the Associated Press reported."

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/05/obama_widens_su.html

[jenmito]

4. I'm sorry! I saw that someone already started a thread on this and nobody responded so I changed

the subject of my OP! But thanks for the article! :hi:

[WeDidIt]

2. Obama now leads the superdelegate race by 30

He also leads her in all categories of super delegates.

[NC_Nurse]

3. Her promises aren't worth anything. Her word is not good.

[me b zola]

55. Exactly

She has proven in this campaign that her word means nothing. I could never "take her at her word".

[BklynChick]

5. but what about Michigan? he wasn't on the ballot. i think they should agree to give her her FL

percentage and give MI half and half.

[mcctatas]

7. I'd even go so far as to give her the delegates she won in MI

as long as Obama gets the uncommitted....

[jenmito]

12. They offered her a "compromise" giving her 10 more delegates than him and she rejected it.

She just wants the popular vote to use as leverage-even though her name was the only one on the ballot.

[jenmito]

9. She already rejected an offer of giving her 10 more delegates than him in MI. She wants it her way

or no way at all. "He CHOSE to take his name off the ballot in MI to appease Iowa and NH, and because he knew he wouldn't win there." Her surrogates said that. :eyes:

[BklynChick]

11. oh yes, I remember that and they offered 59 for her and 49 for him right?

[jenmito]

14. I think it was 57 and 47. She rejects anything that won't give her EVERYTHING she wants.

She's shameless and desperate.

[Romulox]

17. Why should Barack Obama get even ONE vote that was cast for a different candidate???

:wtf:

I love how you have to break out the slide rule to explain why deviating from one person = one vote is really the fair thing to do. :silly:

[jenmito]

19. Why should Hillary Clinton get to LIE about winning the popular vote when she doesn't count ANY

caucus state? She wants EVERYTHING both ways!

[Romulox]

32. Objection. Non-responsive! nt

[jenmito]

34. Overruled!

[Romulox]

58. LOL.

:toast:

:edit: auto-complete is dangerous!

[Citizen_Penn]

6. Obama knows how to lead

think I'll let HIM.

HRC no longer matters in this current environment. It's his game.

She's blown her third strike, and is out.

[jenmito]

25. I agree, but she's still claiming she's "neck and neck" with Obama and that gives her

supporters another reason to be angry at OBAMA just for winning, since they buy her lie that SHE has the most votes and Obama's trying to "stop democracy."

[Citizen_Penn]

42. Ignore her

Most of the country is ignoring her at this point.

She's earned this out.

Well earned out, IMO.

[jenmito]

52. I just wish it was true that most of the country is ignoring her...

clearly, many women and some other of her supporters are under the false impression that she's still in it with a clear shot at winning.

[DevonRex]

8. Her promises are not worth much, unfortunately. nt

[Lone_Star_Dem]

10. Why? It's not how our system works.

Really, I don't see a reason for this. :shrug:

[jenmito]

18. I know it's not how the system works, but as you see here AND in the "real world," she and her

surrogates keep making the false claim that she has won more votes than him. If she'd promise to shut up about the "popular vote" lie, maybe it would be worth it.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

22. I don't think it's a good idea.

It could be perceived by some in caucus states as meaning their votes are worth less than those in the other states. If Hillary's campaign wants to perpetuate that fallacy that's their business. But, I really don't think Obama's campaign nor the DNC should get mire in that foolishness.

[jenmito]

27. But it's HILLARY making the caucus states worth NOTHING since she doesn't add them into

her fuzzy math of claiming the lead in the popular vote.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

30. Yes, I understand that. I don't think her stance on this should be validated.

Which is in effect what giving her the false victory of a popular vote win would do.

[jenmito]

Is it a fact that she'd have the lead in the popular vote if they add FL (and not MI?)

[Lone_Star_Dem]

40. I don't know. To be honest, it's irrelevant so I don't keep up with it.

I'll tell you what I believe though. I believe that Florida is dead to us in November. Which is a shame because it didn't have to be that way, but it's not something we can't overcome. Especially if Obama doesn't waste too much time there and applies his monies and efforts to other areas which have potential.

[jenmito]

44. Well, in reality it's irrelevant, but not in Hillaryland which has a pretty large population.

I don't think Obama needs FL and I agree that he won't WIN FL, but Hillary's getting on my nerves with her continuing argument that we HAVE to "count the votes" in FL or the person "with fewer votes" will end up being the winner.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

50. Like I said. Give her Florida and split Michigan

And smack her ignorant, anti-Democratic Party campaign managers and surrogates upside their pinheads with the BS about there being a "popular vote" in the Democratic primaries.

To me that's the simplest way to deal with it all. However, things are never that simple.

[jenmito]

53. She won't accept that. She won't accept ANYTHING that doesn't

somehow make her the winner.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

60. What would that actually take?

Tossing out half the caucus states delegates and handing her MI and FL? Hell, we might have to put shock collars on all the undecided superdelegates and zap each one who attempts to endorse Obama. They've proven themselves to be untrustworthy. You know, while we're at it we could send Obama's pledged delegates to Gitmo. I know that's a bit of over kill. But, better safe than sorry. If they don't swear to switch we can just leave them there until after the convention.

There problem solved.

[lisa58]

13. popular vote was never the issue - she's trying to make it an issue.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

16. Her campaign is attempting to blur the lines. It would appear it's working, too.

:(

[jenmito]

21. Exactly. And she's comparing it to FL in 2000 which is totally different. Gore never

tried to change any rules in the middle of the game (or at the end of the game.)

[Lone_Star_Dem]

24. Which needs to be debunked. Not pandered to.

You fight lies, exaggerations and half-truths with the truth. Not by pretending they have truth behind them.

[jenmito]

29. I agree. I don't think Obama should pander to her. He should just give her the delegates

she wants as long as she STOPS her LIE.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

35. As far as Florida goes I say give them to her

Michigan isn't that easy. There are a great many people there who support Obama who might well be offended by his handing their state over to her. She's not going to be the Democratic candidate in November. Michigan is in play to go to the Democratic candidate in November. I think they'll need to dealt with carefully and diplomatically.

[jenmito]

39. True. As an example, at a town hall in MI, a guy stood up and said he voted "uncommitted" when he

WANTED to vote for Obama. I'm sure he'll have no problem winning MI regardless of what happens with the delegates.

[Yotun]

15. It has NOTHING to do with rules. Its about democracy. Popular vote is NOT a measure of popularity,

and is ENTIRELY and COMPLETELY meaningless, unlike the pledged delegates. Anybody with a fairly simple graps of mathematics and logic can understand that, and the difference with the 2000 election.

[jenmito]

20. I KNOW. But her followers are buying into her claim to have the most votes and should therefore

be the nominee. Of COURSE it's meaningless. But the media is buying into this, going so far as to say she DESERVES the VP spot since she's winning the popular vote "if you add MI and FL" (while not counting any caucus states).

[Yotun]

33. But even if you count Michigan and Florida, count all the caucus states, and she wins the popular

vote fairly, it is still a meaningless metric. Not that you disagreem, but we have to make sure this is understood. Even if she DID win the popular vote fairly, which she didn't, it still means absolutely nothing. The popular vote is NOT a measure of popularity in a contest with both primaries and caucuses, unlike the pledged delegate metric.

[jenmito]

38. I agree, which is why I'm asking if you think it'd be a good idea if she got all the delegates

from MI and FL she wants as long as she promises NOT to try to make an argument that she should be the nominee if she gets the popular vote fairly.

[SurfingAtWork]

23. It is impossible to come to agreements with parties who have no integrity

They'll just break them and say that they were crossing thier fingers when they were making the agreement.

[shraby]

26. One huge problem with that. Hillary's word isn't

worth a pail of spit. She lies.

[mystieus]

28. By seating FL & MI, Hillary will claim Obama is not legitimate because she has the popular vote lead

[jenmito]

31. But that's my point-he should give her the delegates but on the condition she WON'T claim

the popular vote as a legitimate issue.

[mystieus]

36. Giving her delegates is not what she wants. Popular vote is the talking point.

[jenmito]

41. Then the SDs should step in right after the last primary and make it clear the popular vote

means NOTHING.

[mystieus]

46. I agree, especially in Puerto Rica... that cant vote in GE.

[jenmito]

51. Exactly. Wanting to count PR in the popular vote as an argument Hillary is the stronger

candidate makes no sense at all.

[suston96]

37. Kinda silly - the popular vote is a statistic that is an issue all by itself....

...lots of people - including super delegates and other delegates will be making it "an issue."

Or maybe not.

[mystieus]

43. She still wont have enough delegates to pass Obama by adding FL & MI, popular vote is the argument

[suston96]

49. The popular vote argument? Check it out !

Uh, I think this is a better argument

http://www.electoral-vote.com /

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Obama/Maps/May23.html

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/May23.html

Good bookmark. Updated daily.

[jenmito]

45. It's not a VALID issue since the caucus states aren't included in the total.

[mystieus]

48. Yep, its a silly argument but the only one Hillary has left.

[jenmito]

54. I bet the SDs will put her out of her misery after June 3rd.

[JVS]

47. We've heard promises from her on the issue of these states. I say we let Howard Dean do his job

[hendo]

56. Hillary doesn't know how to kep her promises

thats why we have the trouble we have now.

[jenmito]

57. True. Even promises made in writing.

[mkultra]

59. i think the obama campaing already knows that she wouldnt keep the promise.

[Beregond2]

61. We've already seen what her promises are worth.

[windbreeze]

62. didn't she pledge NOT to count votes/delegates in Fla/Mi???

but to abide by the DNC rules?? Now you want to trust her again...make her promise??? LOL....yeah, right...I wouldn't trust that promise to last as long as it took me to get her to promise it...but that's just me...wb

[jenmito]

63. Yes, but in this case if she goes back on her word the SDs should end it. They should end it NOW

but it looks like they're still "respecting the process" of waiting for every state to vote before supporting Obama and ending it all.

[shadowknows69]

64. She doesn't get to choose what rules she gets to follow

The rules and credentials committee will be giving Mrs. Clinton a hard dose of reality on the 31st.

[jenmito]

69. I can't wait 'til the SDs put her out of her misery so we can get on with the GE.

[Hamlette]

65. I wouldn't trust Clinton to keep her promise. She didn't keep the last ones she made on this issue.

[AtomicKitten]

66. Clearly Hillary's word is worth squat.

She signed on to the disposition of Florida months ago and now is pretending to be Hillary de Arc.

[jenmito]

70. I agree. But her supporters believe whatever bull she tells them.

I wish the SDs would end this already!

[AtomicKitten]

71. They need to end this yesterday!

I was just listening to Ed Schultz taking my son to school and I agree that this demand for kid glove treatment for her is nuts! The other candidates had the integrity to make a graceful exit.

She has lost and that isn't less true simply because she hasn't conceded. She is giving her supporters false hope and making them angry and bitter.

This bullshit needs to stop. All the SDs need to do is put him over the magic number - the actual magic number of 2,026 per DNC rules - and be done with it.

Hey, Jen. Have a great holiday weekend! :hi:

[jenmito]

72. Yup. And I bet they WILL end it in 2 weeks...

I love Ed Schultz and agree with him. And I agree with you, too.

Thanks, AK! Same to you! :hi:

[BlooInBloo]

67. (a) Trusting a Clinton promise is just stupid, (b) Obama has no need of the deal.

[MonkeyFunk]

68. She's allowed to make any argument she wants

to superdelegates, as is he.

What a dumb idea.

[Abacus]

73. I think we've learned what a Hillary promise is worth.

[Iceburg]

74. Obama is in no position to bargain. He lost both of these states.

Ah ... "The rules": Let's keep this in perspective -- no ballot boxes were stuffed, no votes were switched, no votes were uncounted -- two states simply changed the god damn dates of their primary (not to mention the fact, that the FL date was changed by the incumbent Republican government). And why no mention of the other 3 states (IO,NH, SC) that "broke the rules" and were not penalized. Get a grip on reality chum!

Obama was polling at less than 23% in MI before the primaries ...that is what motivated him to remove his name along with the other ceratin losers (Richardson, Edwards). The boys thought if they worked together and pooled their vote under "Uncomitted" they could stick it to ol' Hillary. Obama was WRONG then, he was wrong to deny a revote when offered, and Obama is wrong now not to count the votes. This shit makes the Republican/SC 2000 ruling in FL look like childs play. This is a direct assault on democracy and the Dems will pay for it in the GE regardless of who is the nominee. Hillary by her swift and tough action upholding democratic principles is the only one now that has a chance at taking FL & MI in the GE.

[juajen]

75. You wish. NT