The general is holding his fire.

[robbedvoter]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/nation/columns/kurtzhoward/
Clark's Targeted War
Friday, Dec 19, 2003; 8:51 AM

The general is holding his fire.

He's happy to strafe George Bush, but not, for the moment, Howard Dean.

While Kerry, Gephardt and Lieberman are lobbying grenades in Dean's direction every couple of hours, Wes Clark has muzzled himself on that score.

In a conference call with reporters yesterday, Clark unloaded on Bush over 9/11 and Iraq--"a failure of leadership at the highest levels of the administration," and so on. But when a reporter asked about Dean's statement that the capture of Saddam hasn't made America safer, Clark simply said: "I think the United States is safer," and never got around to mentioning Dean.

After Clark, campaigning in New Hampshire, got off the call, his communications director, Matt Bennett, was asked about Dean. "We're not going to get into talking about Howard Dean and his troubles of late," Bennett said.More

[dave29]

1. You may have noticed

Dean behaves likewise re: Clark - unless provoked.

[maddezmom]

2. Yes, I have...

They usually only comment to clarify policy differences.

[TrueAmerican]

3. Go Wesley Clark. Rove is worried.

Democrats, please don't let Karl Rove choose your candidate. Let's vote for Wesley Clark.

[HFishbine]

4. If only his supporters

were of like mind.

[maddezmom]

5. back at ya

:)

[eileen_d]

6. Sigh...

You know, I like Clark of my own free will. I tried to like Dean; occasionally I still make an effort.

If Clark gets the nod, I'll be voting for a Democrat (i.e. for Clark). If Dean gets the nod, I'll be voting against a Republican (i.e. for Dean).

[bicentennial_baby]

7. A handful is not representative of the whole

[Larkspur]

8. Clark's staff has at least paid attention to how disastorous Kerry's,

Gephardt's, and Lieberman's attacks on Dean have helped Dean to their campaign's detriment.

My theory is that Clark is playing possum and holding back his fire and his efforts in IA and NH to conserve money. He's hoping Kerry, Gephardt, and Lieberman will collapse before Feb. 3 and their people will join his campaign, but polls show that especially with Kerry's supporters (not activitst), Dean may benefit from them more than Clark. By holding back on fire and money, Clark hopes to ambush Dean with attack ads from Feb. 3 primaries and on.

Clark's plan has drawbacks -- Dean is forging ahead at unprecedented speed and has a fiercely loyal financial support pool greater than his -- and if Clark waits too long to attack or counter Dean, he'll be eating Dean's dust, which he's already getting a good taste of.

[maddezmom]

9. wonder what attack ads Dean has up his sleeve for Clark? n/t

[_NorCal_D_]

11. Two words: mind control.

B-)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=367243

[maddezmom]

12. thanks for that link...it brightened my day!!!

:evilgrin:

[BootinUp]

20. LOL, that is the funniest thread I have ever seen!

thanks I needed that

[BigMcLargehuge]

10. I have noticed

In fact I've noticed that he's pretty much holding his fire all around. Clearly that's drawn from his history as a military strategist. Thus, he'll have that much more ammo when it's necessary either closing out the primary, or should be win the nomination, for the general election. He knows that the end run is going to be the fiercest fighting of the primary, and it's best now to distinguish himself by not engaging in cross-candidate attacks. I think he's maintaining a level of civility many of the other candidates could learn from.

[Devils Advocate NZ]

13. The man is a genius!

But when a reporter asked about Dean's statement that the capture of Saddam hasn't made America safer, Clark simply said: "I think the United States is safer," and never got around to mentioning Dean.

I would NEVER have thought that the capture of a man - who was no longer in power of his nation, nor even when he WAS in power of his nation could do ANYTHING to stop the United States from bombing the crap out of his country, LET ALONE actually do anything to harm the United States - would have made the United States safer!

Shows you how stupid I am!

PS: In case sarcasm flies right over your head, let me just say this: Clark is a fucking moron if he believes that the capture of Saddam Hussein has done ANYTHING to make the US safer!

[TexasPatriot]

15. there are threads to discuss this

but i'll give you my quick take

there are a lot of iraqi people (as evidenced by the confluence of relief from many, and anger from deeply Sunni areas such as Tikrit) who were still dealing with the possiblity of a Saddam return to power. We can consider it remote here - but so long as he was out there there was a chance. NPR's 'on point' had an interesting discussion on how this might affect the lowlevel insurgency over time, and though Juan Cole tended to disagree with some of that commentary - i think there's a reasonable case to be made that it will be easier to gain some degree of traction in Iraq now that Saddam is out of the picture. In fact, the immediate aftermath in the Sistani/Anan discussions are likely a more viable option in a post-capture environment than they would be otherwise (discounting the question of whether any positive outcome between those 2 was even possible pre-capture). For all that this is a simple statement, it inherits a complex set of variables from a massively complex environment. If you narrowly define the statement down to the idea that in Saddam you're only dealing with what one old guy in a hole with a gun could do to America, you may be speaking a truth - but that belies a gross lack of depth in understanding these foreign policy complexities. To go back to my favorite Umberto Eco quote 'for every complex question, there is a simple answer - and it's wrong'

I think this was an attempt by Dr Dean to talk about something he's not well versed in - and its a tiny silly sentence that, on its own, isnt worth arguing over. Afterall - does this sort of idiot conjecture really matter to anything? How does what Dr Dean thinks about a hypothetical non-event really matter? This wont kill him - hell, W did it often enough as a presidential contender 4 years ago - but defending it makes it worse. It's like the defense over the confed flag flap. He will defend and defend his statements, until he gets attacked on them repeatedly and eventually has to alter his wording just enough to make it tenable.

However, Dr Dean saying something that is at best questionably defensible in no way makes General Clark's refusal to agree evidence of his being a 'fucking moron'.

[Gloria]

19. I think that Clark sees the Saddam capture in terms of the entire region..

great post, TexasPatriot. Clark's view goes beyond Saddam's threat to the US...His views are not black and white or narrow in scope.

I think Clark is able to understand all the complexities of the situation. Including the fact that Saddam may have had docs which pointed to some of the networks working in Iraq....In that sense, it may make some difference that we have caught Saddam.

However, as Clark clearly discusses, what happens next may be even more critical....a real transparent trial, as an example of the rule of law, so that Iraq and the region see an example of an honest process. Without that, all bets are off.

[TexasPatriot]

23. the problem is

if Dean is perceived as naive it hurts him (especially in "time of war").

However, there's a stink test in politics. If a candidate says something - you have to ask 'how would I feel if MY candidate said that' - or conversely - 'how would I feel if the OTHER guy said that'. I think the issues like the sealed records, the speech to the white country club, etc all fail in my book. But what's interesting is that they dont seem to set off those same alarms for the Dean folks (and from the DU boards it's driving the other campaigns nuts). The Deaniacs follow dogma. Honestly, that's not such a bad thing. If Dean can tell the US people that Green is Blue and they'll believe him - then by God that will drive the pubs insane and I'll sit back and laugh my ass off watching them splutter.

The other idea is that their anger against Bush is so pronounced that they've crossed into fervor. Fervor is dangerous (and I think that's why the pubs are wondering whether they have a Tiger by the tail in Dean) - and one of the dangers is that it's irrational. Rove cant counter irrational anger. Gore couldnt either. Is it enough?

I dont think there are enough motivated angry people in America to just follow the Anti-Bush banner. There are obviously a good couple hundred thousand of em... but will there be enough to offset Rove's fear cards. Not a gamble I like - and some of us hope to god we dont have to suffer the consequences of a bad bet.

[Donna Zen]

22. No Argument

However, only an abso-fuckin-lute moron would say "that the world was not safer without Saddam" while they were running for president.

Also, Saddam was definately shit stirring in the region, which is bad for everyone. Junior being an asshole does not deminish Saddam's thug credentials.

[meow mix]

14. dont forget the money

dean has been spending, huuuugely...14 million worth.
(but still cant get the un-decideds, haha)

clark gets more bang for his bucks at about 300k.
looking forward to some escalation =)

[LuminousX]

16. Clark holds back; his campaign... ?

I think Clark has chosen the High Road/Low Road model, he takes the High Road while sending out minions (I love that word, it sounds so evil!!) to take the Low Road. Best of both worlds.

Now before I get jumped on, yes, this is all pure speculation. I'm culling it mostly from things like supporter websites and tactics like the 'Dean Resume.'

[maddezmom]

17. must have missed it, what's the "Dean resume"? n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

18. Minion there may well be

But Clark doesn't send them out, honest. It's a brave new world. Anyone with an internet connection and a phone can suddenly consider themselves a campaign stratagist. I do my bit some over here, but I try to do it honorably. In either case no one sent me. I could go about this dishonorably and Clark would have just as much control over me: None. I just like to think I am somehow making a difference, which of course is one of the central themes that got the Dean movement so fired up.

And minions have also been spotted gathered under the banner of other candidates, but that doesn't mean they are orchestrated by any campaign central.

[Cheswick2.0]

21. I don't think they are doing him any favors with all the military jargon

the problem many democrats have with him is that they see him as too caught up in the military and lacking experience in domestic issues.