I give up

[Prophet 451]

Thought sparked by this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=132&topic_id=6014363&mesg_id=6014363

This party is toast. Based on the responses here, precisely none of the Hillbots are willing to vote for Obama unless they get something out of it. The responses to this thread have gone from the exact kind of entitlement that Hillary has always been accused of (ironic because I doubt Hillary herself does feel that way) to accusations that anyone who doesn't vote for Hillary is sexist (which is so nakedly hypocritical as to incite outright contempt) to "I would have voted for Obama if you hadn't been so mean to me".

Virtually no-one responding to this thread has been willing to grow the fuck up and put the needs of the whole above their own hurt feelings. I can't know how many are Repub plants but if this whole campaign has been about who'd be the better candidate, the war on DU has been about "be nice to me or else", everyone looking for reasons to be offended, almost none willing to let go of their own vanity or entitlement or hatreds to put the needs of the many first. Yeah, some of the Obamabots have been gloating, poor show them but how fucking old are you to let that bullshit turn you away? I always knew America's cult of the individual was bad but this is fucking sickening.

This is not about you and your hurt feelings or Obama's ego or Hillary's campaign debts. This is about the fate of the USA and thereby, the world and you're shouting "you started it" like fucking schoolchildren! If you (all of you, Obamabot and Hillbot alike) are so bloody petty and self-obsessed that you'll sit this one out because canadidate X's supporters were mean to you, you fucking deserve President McCain.

[AllentownJake]

1. DU is not the real world

Calm down.

[trixie]

31. I agree

I for one had to just stay away from here. The rabid supporters on both sides have made this site an embarrassment. Most Dems don't fight like this or say such horrid things for either side. Most of us are waiting to see who is nominated and will vote accordingly because WE HAVE A BRAIN. Acting like GOPers makes me think that the 8 years of Bush has impacted some people in a big way. Ethics, fairness, etc have gone down the tubes. Tearing down Bill Clinton is unforgivable. He has done more for this country and lots of you have forgotten that. Attacking Obama is just as bad for race baiting etc. They are both viable candidates. They are both BETTER than Mccain and they both are pretty much on the same platform. If we lose this election it will be because of ourselves.

[susankh4]

36. In the real world people are still voting in a primary.

Remember?

[MrsT]

2. How about not calling us Hillbots?

That might help. And accept the fact that there are always going to be a bunch of people on the internet spouting nonsense, and they certainly don't represent all, or even a majority, or even a small sliver of Clinton supporters or Obama supporters.

[Prophet 451]

7. I used "Obamabot" later

Essentially, I use the suffix "-bot" to divide each candidate's rational supporters from the crazies.

And you're right, I probably should calm down.

[Rhiannon12866]

8. You're right, that's against the rules.

There are Clinton supporters and Obama supporters. And there are also McCain supporters, I guess, but they really don't belong here...;)

[Prophet 451]

13. It is?

I didn't know using the "bot" thing was against the rules. Apologies for that.

[Rhiannon12866]

26. Well, I haven't really gotten into it this time around, LOL, since my candidate never stood a chance

*sigh* But I remember, from 2004, that we weren't supposed to say "Deaniac" or "Clarkie," no nicknames. People get all insulted. It was Dean supporter or Clark supporter, so I figured that the same rules are in place here now.:shrug:

[housewolf]

30. hmmmm just curious...

whose rules? Did I miss someone's rules list? I don't use either of those phrases, but I'm just curious as to who made that rule...

[Rhiannon12866]

34. Skinner, back during the last election. n/t

[MonkeyFunk]

32. alas, it's not against the rules

it should be, though.

[Rhiannon12866]

35. It's against the rules to piss people off,

though that's apparently been happening a lot here. I'm just hiding under the bed till it's over...:hide:

[MonkeyFunk]

37. oh dear

if it were against the rules to piss people off, this forum would be a graveyard.

[Rhiannon12866]

39. And we wouldn't need mods to separate people... *sigh*

But take my word for it, 2004 was just as bad. Obviously the candidates and the players were different, but it got pretty rough here then, too...:scared:

So I remember Skinner intervening. He said that the bickering would have to stop once we had a nominee, that we all were expected to unite behind him. And somebody posted: "Even if it's Lieberman?!" And Skinner replied, "Yes, even if it's Lieberman...":rofl:

[Rhiannon12866]

3. The same kind of stuff happened here in 2004 and we survived it,

so we'll survive this too. There was a great deal of rancor and people threatening to vote for Bush* if their candidate didn't get the nomination, which especially creeped me out. But we're going to win this time, and DU will survive. We just need a nominee...:shrug:

[mcctatas]

4. .....

Relax, I feel the same way sometimes. Eventually everyone but a small minority will do what is best for the party and the country. Half of the "bots" on both sides just like to stir shit up and the other half is probably a sock puppet of the first half;)

[msallied]

5. Don't be discouraged by this place.

Honestly, it's not a true microcosm of America. This place is for the more passionate, hardcore Dems, political junkies, and in some cases pot-stirrers. Take a break and get some perspective. It's all good. :)

[bluesbassman]

6. I believe you are mistaken Sir.

To say that all of the Clinton supporters will abandon Obama in the GE based on one thread is absurd. Even with all the hostility in the GDP over the past few months, it is clear that a great number of Clinton supporters will vote for Obama because he is our Democrat nominee in the GE.

[Prophet 451]

9. It's not the supporters that bother me, it's the "bots"

The supporters will (hopefully) put the country above their own feelings, the bots are the crazies, the personality cultists.

I want to be wrong. I also think I could use some tea to calm down.

[bluesbassman]

25. Right you are Prophet.

It is the crazies, fanatics, and zealots who have and will continue to stir up division. My gut feeling though is that they really are a small minority and their impact will be slight.

Enjoy your tea my friend!:hi:

[Rhiannon12866]

29. I promise you it was just as bad the last time around, and it got to me too.

I survived with no problems in the I/P forum, but got threatened because I said the wrong thing about one of the candidates, and it was true, but people got insulted. Things will calm down, but you're right, things do get crazy. I also blame the media, since they're fanning the flames in search of ratings...x(

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. It would not be so worrying if it was just one thread, but it has been

a recurring theme across a hundred threads, and is just as bad on other boards than DU.

I do believe that most who say it are republican trolls and shit stirrers, and the vast majority of real democratic voters will support the chosen candidate. As much as I believe that, it's hard to minimize it seeing it 30 times a day.

[bluedawg12]

10. Dems will unite for the nominee, McSame is not

going to get a chance for 4 more years of Bushco crap.

[2rth2pwr]

11. get over it.

[Hippo_Tron]

12. Chill out, DU isn't the real world

The Clinton supporters I know in real life all dislike Obama for the same reasons that Clinton supporters on DU claim to. But they aren't thinking even for two seconds that they won't vote for Obama.

[OzarkDem]

14. DU is a "hothouse" environment for Obama supporters

They really aren't in touch with average voters, especially those who support Clinton.

It might help you to get out and meet some of these people if you really want their support and try to understand their concerns.

[Prophet 451]

18. Wish I could

but I'm British. The only contact I have with the US is electronic and a couple of friends in teh States (most of whom are supporting Obama).

[AllentownJake]

19. How many doors have you knocked on

I knocked on over 1000 in PA and the vast majority of democrats I spoke to said they liked them both. A very small minority didn't. About the same as the number of registered democrats that were voting for McCain vs both of them.

[BzaDem]

15. How about you stop thinking that Clinton supporters are Republican plants?

Or that anyone who disagrees with your choices is a Republican plant. The disgusting vitrol from many Obama supporters (many of which haven't been banned yet) that Clinton supporters have had to put up with is really shocking. Most will probably vote for the D in November, but they would never yield any bit of satisfaction to the Obama supporters here by posting it. That is the kind of environment that GDP is, primarily due to a subset of Obama supporters who live off Hillary-hate. Most Hillary supporters (the ones who haven't already left) would never post anything positive about Obama because of the toxic environment that GDP is.

[rpannier]

16. I still think most people will get over it

I think what makes this stand out so much

1. There were a lot of people on both sides (all sides) who got vested in their candidates.

2. There was a decided lack of civility by about 20% of the members supporting each side and they seemed to always be posting.

3. This is the first seriously contested primary in the internet age -- I'd be curious what posts would have looked like back in 1960 (if the internet had existed back then).

4.People here seem to act like the person insulting them was the actual candidate, rather than some person who's link to the campaign is marginal at best.

5. It was an historic campaign. We were either going to nominate the first woman or first AA to be the standard bearer of a major Party and I think that raised the stakes decidedly.

6. In a on-on-one discussion you have less time to think about what you're going to say. At a site, like this, people have time to 'craft' their supposedly-witty response to someone else.

7. Some people here, felt it necessary to jump into everyone else's post to make some point, that often seemed intended only to piss people off.
The advantage to sitting around a table with people is, there are many people there to tell the annoying person to "STFU! And get a life."

[BzaDem]

23. I agree with you, especially number 2

The problem is, given that there are at least 10x as many Obama supporters here, 20% of Obama supporters is still 10 times 20% of Clinton supporters. That's what makes this environment so toxic for Hillary supporters.

[ginnyinWI]

28. Recipe for hard feelings:

Take one bunch of highly partisan, highly opinionated Democrats, place in a pot called DU.

Stir in a little stress from the everyday lives of said Democrats,like high prices, low health care, job worries, real estate worries, global warming worries, and war-in-Iraq worries, causing a need to let off steam in some "safe" place. The more steam is let off voicing opinions, the stronger those opinions grow.

Add a pinch of anonymity, which leads some to think they can abandon their otherwise good manners.

Add a medium which lets people show off their supposed clever put-downs and derogatory names to others in the "audience".

Blend in the fact that because we are all Democrats, the differences among us become far more pronounced than if we were in a mixed group of members of all political parties. Molehills then become mountains.

Simmer for 15 months during a prolonged, often frustrating primary season.


Result: what we see in GDP--a DU which has become FUBAR. But this, too, shall pass! :)

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Prophet 451]

21. and I used "Obamabot" too, asshole

There's a difference between the supporters and the bots.

[BlooInBloo]

22. Um, his point is that he shouldn't have to "win them over". Durr.

[BlooInBloo]

20. "Based on the responses here" - hopefully that's what saves things in the real world.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. After she drops and that is coming, some will grow

and by November most will vote for the nominee... though a few will stay home or vote for McCain.

If more than a few do... we may see defeat

And if McCain takes away all they have fought for, they can take some responsibility

Right now folks are way too excited and chiefly angry

[Perry Logan]

33. Certainly the Presidency is lost. You CAN'T call your fellow Democrats racists and expect to win.

I get two responses from Obamites to this comment. Half of them deny the charges; the other half repeat the charges.

[Prophet 451]

38. Thank you for proving my point n/t